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Shenmue 3 Kickstarter Backers will not receive preorder/Deluxe Edition bonuses

hank_tree

hank_tree

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Its dumb alright but I can't be mad about pre-order bonuses.

Really what's happening here is people butt hurt about EGS dumping on Shenmue 3 for every little thing.
 
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Ryo Hazuki

Ryo Hazuki

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,463
Lothars said:
I'd say blindly defending the publishers and the developers and ignoring that the kickstarter backers are a big reason the game exists in the first place because without the interest from people that want the game than it's not going to exist and with the decisions they have made regarding the game have shown a history of bad decisions especially in the last year.

I want the game to be great, I want it to succeed but I am not going to roll over and just say that everything they do is okay and I will say the only way a shenmue 4 comes out is if someone else is funding it, if they attempt to kickstart another Shenmue game it will fail because of all the things they have done.
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I also don't blindly support them or roll over at everything they do. The Steam key stuff was shitty and I'm glad people affected will get the chance to get refunds. Sorry, but I personally don't see the issue with this particular thing. As I've said numerous times before - is it shitty and would it be cool to get "everything"? Sure. I'm not really bothered about it though because it wasn't promised in the Kickstarter and because I understand how publishers work. To me it was always a given that I won't get incentives the publisher used to entice preorders. Would it be nice? It would! But it would just be an added bonus and nothing else. I don't feel slighted over a skin and move scroll. It's not like I'm mad because I don't get the physical items of the Limited Edition that wasn't in the Kickstarter either.

As a massive Shenmue fan you'd think I'd be the most pissed that I'm not getting "everything", but I'm not really going to take a private response from whoever runs the Kickstarter that we'll never get the chance to get these items in game or get them separately somehow. This wasn't even an official update. We've seen enough to see the Kickstarter has been poorly run and the publisher stepping in to do retail has complicated things even more. I'm sure if people want the bonuses that bad and contact Deep Silver in volume about it they will find a way to release them for all at some point (they may already be planned to be in the game or released for all we know).

It's a weird one because I wonder if the people mad about this will also be pissed that they're technically not entitled to the in-game phone card if they didn't back at the $80 tier of the Kickstarter. This is technically content that will be excluded from the retail game at this point in time. To me this is far worse. This shouldn't be excluded from people just because they happened to not back a game over 4 years ago. Hopefully they find a way to make this available to non-backers at some point along with the preorder content we're seeing here so it's available to everyone. Again, this could be planned for all we know but there's no official update on it so it's all speculation.
 

Holundrian

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,107
Giolon said:
I think it's a poor decision, but I can understand not giving backers the season pass if it's content that wasn't promised for the Kickstarter campaign.

However, not giving backers the pre-order bonuses is ultimately shitty, as backing the Kickstarter is essentially the ultimate pre-order. They paid for the game w/o any actual guarantee of receiving it. They should be doing everything they reasonably can to show their appreciation towards those people.
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Isn't it pretty clear there is no appreciation? It's all about the money. Backers don't provide more money anymore except if they pay for another copy. Who does provide more money now? Epic so again who cares about backers at that point xD. Their attitude has been very consistent on that front.
 
Lothars

Lothars

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Oct 25, 2017
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Ryo Hazuki said:
As a massive Shenmue fan you'd think I'd be the most pissed that I'm not getting "everything", but I'm not really going to take a private response from whoever runs the Kickstarter that we'll never get the chance to get these items in game or get them separately somehow. This wasn't even an official update. We've seen enough to see the Kickstarter has been poorly run and the publisher stepping in to do retail has complicated things even more. I'm sure if people want the bonuses that bad and contact Deep Silver in volume about it they will find a way to release them for all at some point (they may already be planned to be in the game or released for all we know).
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It's not even about getting everything, it's about how backers specifically have been treated this year. This is just a portion if it was just the season pass that was not given to backers than I can understand that a bit more but it's just one thing after another and this is yet another example of it.

Edit: Changed who it was addressing because my quote wasn't quoted to the right person.
 
Captain of Outer Space

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Oct 28, 2017
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I don't think I've ever gotten pre-order bonuses for games I've gotten through KS, which kind of sucks but I'd be curious to know if you can get codes for pre-order versions of games on PS4/XB1/Switch/Steam/etc.
 
hank_tree

hank_tree

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1. Pre-order on Amazon.
2. Get Pre-order Code.
3. Return unopened game.
 
Storm

Storm

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Oct 25, 2017
1,026
You know. I backed two copies of this, I was debating if I should keep both, refund both or only keep a PS4 copy and refund the PC version.


I think I'm refunding both now.
 
breakYODAy

breakYODAy

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Oct 25, 2017
428
Storm said:
You know. I backed two copies of this, I was debating if I should keep both, refund both or only keep a PS4 copy and refund the PC version.


I think I'm refunding both now.
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What makes you think you're eligible to refund your PS4 copy? The refunds are for PC backers unhappy with an EGS key. You guys are acting ridiculous.
 
Dreamwriter

Dreamwriter

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Oct 27, 2017
7,461
s_mirage said:
I was going to go for a refund anyway but this is truly pathetic. Let me get this straight: they decided to add DLC content and deluxe edition exclusive content way after the crowdfunding campaign had completed, and their response to the backers who provided the funding to make the game possible, backers who expected to get a complete game, is that if they want that content they have to buy another copy of the game? Talk about a kick in the balls. They can go to hell.
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Why would anyone have to buy another copy of the game for DLC or a season pass? That makes no sense, it sounds like you just want to find something negative to say about this. And how does DLC make this "a complete game"? There have been some story-based games in the past that really felt like they were designed for the DLC to be part of the game, that were kind-of ripoffs (FFXV comes to mind...), but that's the exception, not the rule. We know literally nothing about the DLC content for this game right now.

It sounds to me like people here just want free stuff - "Those guys who have to pay $60 for what I paid $29 for, can pay $15 more to get a DLC season pass, I want that pass, these guys are evil for not giving me free stuff!" (yes, I know some people pledged more, but in most cases those pledges also got extra stuff, stuff that purchasers of the $60 or $75 digital games can't possibly get). "Wow, YsNet is developing even more content for the game post-release, how come I can't get it for free? It has Shenmue in the name, I pledged for Shenmue, I should get it!" "I was inconvenienced by a broken promise, I deserve this unrelated thing, if I can't get it for free, it's another broken promise!"
 
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Chairmanchuck (另一个我)

Chairmanchuck (另一个我)

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Dreamwriter said:
It sounds to me like people here just want free stuff - "Those guys who have to pay $60 for what I paid $29 for, can pay $15 more to get a DLC season pass, I want that pass, these guys are evil for not giving me free stuff!" (yes, I know some people pledged more, but in most cases those pledges also got extra stuff, stuff that purchasers of the $60 or $75 digital games can't possibly get). "Wow, YsNet is developing even more content for the game post-release, how come I can't get it for free? It has Shenmue in the name, I pledged for Shenmue, I should get it!"
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You still ignore that there are not just "30-60$" backers, but backers who put far more money into it.
You also ignore that YSnet didnt even announce a season pass or talked to the backers about it, but people found out about the season pass when the EGS preorder went live and suddenly there were talks about a season pass.
You also ignore that in most KS cases (disregarding Battletech) people got stuff like the season pass for free, because people respected the backers.
You also ignore that BECAUSE of the backers, Deep Silver decided to publish it.
You also ignore its not just the season pass, but preorder bonuses.

You also ignore the whole KS debacle before whats with Steam keys changed to EGS, physical PC data, apparently ragdoll system that was a stretch goal still not into it etc.
So after all the bad news/PR some sort of good will might be nice, but hey:

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Deleted member 29599

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Nov 1, 2017
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I honestly don't know why anyone would ever back a kickstarter project again after all this Shenmue 3 nonsense, not to mention the pile of other games that either never materialised or turned out to be shit. I also don't understand people who are spending ridiculously amounts of money on the game. People here have slapped down $100 and more for this thing? $200? Christ, $400?! On a game that no one actually knows if its going to turn out to be a good game? You people are crazy and must have lots of disposable income. Hope you get your money's worth.
 
YuSuzzune

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Nov 21, 2018
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Will I receive the EXT on release date at least? Holy shit never again, fuck Ys Net, Tim Sweeney, Deep Silver and Santa Claus.
 
bell wood's jet cola

bell wood's jet cola

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I put down a lot of my own money because I wanted the game for 18+ years and Yu Suzuki is one of my favorite game designers of all time. I'd do it again. Thanks for questioning how I spend my own money.
 
Roubjon

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RyanG said:
I honestly don't know why anyone would ever back a kickstarter project again after all this Shenmue 3 nonsense, not to mention the pile of other games that either never materialised or turned out to be shit. I also don't understand people who are spending ridiculously amounts of money on the game. People here have slapped down $100 and more for this thing? $200? Christ, $400?! On a game that no one actually knows if its going to turn out to be a good game? You people are crazy and must have lots of disposable income. Hope you get your money's worth.
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There is a very large number of successful kickstarters that delivered high quality games with no bullshit attached.
 
Dreamwriter

Dreamwriter

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Chairmanchuck said:
You still ignore that there are not just "30-60$" backers, but backers who put far more money into it.
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I brought that up - those people who paid more got more, and they got things that retail customers can't possible get. For my $60 I got a physical copy for PS4 in an exclusive slipcase. But the Kickstarter set the value of the digital game by itself at $29, so I paid $31 to get a disc, case, and slipcase. People who paid $100 for example get those and their name in the credits and some trial version before the game's launch - they basically paid $29 for the game and $71 for the disc/case/slipcase, credits and trial version. Most of these are things that retail customers can't order at any price, and will never be able to get.

Chairmanchuck said:
You also ignore that YSnet didnt even announce a season pass or talked to the backers about it, but people found out about the season pass when the EGS preorder went live and suddenly there were talks about a season pass.
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So? It's likely they didn't originally plan on DLC, because after the Kickstarter they were concentrating on making the game, not extra content. The fact that that they didn't announce it doesn't mean they are evil and people should get it for free.

Chairmanchuck said:
You also ignore that in most KS cases (disregarding Battletech) people got stuff like the season pass for free, because people respected the backers.
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That's not "most KS cases", that's "some KS cases". Most of the ones I've seen had pledge levels for getting the DLC, such as Shroud of the Avatar, or had DLC specifically mentioned as stretch goals, or as in this case, they said nothing about DLC except the knowledge that there would be sequels in the future if this one was successful, and then when the DLC was announced close to release, they didn't give them away for free.


Chairmanchuck said:
You also ignore the whole KS debacle before whats with Steam keys changed to EGS, physical PC data, apparently ragdoll system that was a stretch goal still not into it etc.
So after all the bad news/PR some sort of good will might be nice, but hey
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No, I brought that up too, you just didn't quote it. "I was inconvenienced by a broken promise, I deserve this unrelated thing, if I can't get it for free, it's another broken promise!"
 
headspawn

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Oct 27, 2017
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I can understand the Deluxe/Season Pass stuff not being included... that is generally content that is outside of the scope of the initial development funding, right? I don't think you should be entitled to that. Past case scenarios it might have happened, but with the developers own money; YsNet have Deep Silver for better or worse footing the bill for this now, I don't think they're here for charity and honestly they seem damn near to have animosity towards backers if anything, I wouldn't expect that to change. They should however give you the option to upgrade your 'purchase' to include this at a discounted rate, I think that'd be fair.

The 'preorder bonus' stuff though? That's just mean spirited.

The choices Deep Silver is making as of late, it almost seems like they're angry at people and taking it out on them for no reason.
 
bell wood's jet cola

bell wood's jet cola

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I've sent a PM to Ys Net asking them to clarify this. I feel like there's more to this story than this single PM from what's likely a very low level employee, and I have asked them to clarify what content backers are receiving vs. what "day 1" buyers are receiving. There is some discussion on another forum that it's highly unlikely Deep Silver would release separate digital codes on day 1.
 
ShiftyHermit

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Oct 27, 2017
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JayCeeJim said:
Well, you put the right words there. I would be really amazed at a fan for whom the marketing strategies of some store or publisher that popped up a couple months ago mattered more to a fan than the 18 years he/she has had to wait on a cliffhanger for the continuation of the game.

Or that someone who spends 1,000 or 10,000$ to make development possible will suddenly turn its back to the game because he/she has to spend 49$ more to get some figurine or in-game jacket.

Of course they are things that can be annoying, or mishandled, or even unfair. But let's put things into perspective.
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It's specifically to those that spent tons of money on their Kickstarter. If you were a fan of the game and want to buy it to finish the story you loved, I don't care either way. But when you cannot pay people to create the game you want to make and people flood in to donate, then I think they deserve a little but more than just "fans" of a game.
 
jimboton

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What shitshow of a Kickstarter, from the thoroughly unimpressive Shenmue 3 as shown so far, to the extremes of greediness and stupidity those managing it are reaching. No doubt a half hearted backtracking of this will follow, at least where the pre-order bonus part is concerned. It's just too ridiculous.
 
JayCeeJim

JayCeeJim

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ShiftyHermit said:
It's specifically to those that spent tons of money on their Kickstarter. If you were a fan of the game and want to buy it to finish the story you loved, I don't care either way. But when you cannot pay people to create the game you want to make and people flood in to donate, then I think they deserve a little but more than just "fans" of a game.
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Of course I agree they probably deserve more (that pre-order DLC at least). But pretending that, when they don't get them, they abandon their love of the game and stop buying it/ask for a refund to "send a message" to Epic/Deep Silver/whatsoever sounds really naive to me.

I would be really sad (even worried) if a friend of mine was so passionate about something to invest 1,000$ on it, and then lose that passion because of some corporate missteps from the publisher and the shop, honestly.
 
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DrMoguera

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It comes across to me that the people who are truly angry at this have a lot more issues with Shenmue III than this particular issue. The recent update has made it clear that the game they've made is much bigger in scope than the game that was funded through Kickstarter backers alone. Refunds have been made available for the people who aren't going to get what they were promised at launch, and otherwise the backers are getting everything they were promised, the game and bonuses, that were provided from the outset.

Would it be a nice gesture for the backers to get extra DLC? Sure. Is this the disaster-tier decision people want to frame it as? Absolutely not.
 
Aswitch

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This is kinda messed up. I don't think this is asking for too much considering that this game wouldn't even be possible without all of the crowdfunded support. It just seems like common sense (hell even common courtesy). Hopefully they'll come around.
 
so1337

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Oct 28, 2017
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DrMoguera said:
It comes across to me that the people who are truly angry at this have a lot more issues with Shenmue III than this particular issue. The recent update has made it clear that the game they've made is much bigger in scope than the game that was funded through Kickstarter backers alone. Refunds have been made available for the people who aren't going to get what they were promised at launch, and otherwise the backers are getting everything they were promised, the game and bonuses, that were provided from the outset.

Would it be a nice gesture for the backers to get extra DLC? Sure. Is this the disaster-tier decision people want to frame it as? Absolutely not.
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The scope of the game has increased beyond the amount that was funded through Kickstarter wether you include the season pass or not. That's not the issue. The issue is nickel and diming and constantly disregarding the people who made this game a possiblity in the first place. Before the Kickstarter blew up, publishers wouldn't have touched this project with a ten foot pole.

So yes, I do believe that all the content should be made available to Kickstarter backers. And that includes the so-called "season pass."

btw. A season pass for Shenmue? What an anachronism.
 
Meia

Meia

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Oct 26, 2017
1,015
MindofKB said:
How do I not get preorder bonuses if I preordered FOUR YEARS AGO?

I am THE ORIGINAL PRE-ORDERER.
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Didn't you know? Kickstarter isn't a pre-order service, it's you helping to get the game made, and they give you a copy of the game.



Oh, all that other stuff they also use your money for, like developing pre-order bonuses and holding back content to put in a season pass? Yeah that doesn't count! Isn't it wonderful! :\


It's really times like this I wish we could get an audit or something of exactly where all that money went to for all those years. Like, how quickly did they go through all the extra money they got beyond what they originally asked for and apparently needed to bow down to a pub that doesn't give a shit about the fans of said kickstarter ? Everyone saying the creator is blameless is closing their eyes to the truth: The project was mismanaged from day one apparently.


THE POINT OF A KICKSTARTER IS YOU ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO NEED A PUBLISHER.
 
Vamphuntr

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Meia said:
THE POINT OF A KICKSTARTER IS YOU ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO NEED A PUBLISHER.
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Nah. Crowdfunding has been used as a stepping stone to getting a publisher's support in many cases like this one, MM9 and Bloodstained for instance.

Games are really expensive to make especially when you start to dole out features and hide them behind arbitrary stretch goal without knowing how much everything will actually cost and how long it will take to develop. Both Bloodstained and this were also delayed multiple times and the publisher is definitely footing the bill. Bloodstained was rebooted and changed developers at least once (from IntiCreate) for instance.

The figs situation was also pretty funny too. It was made by Inxile, Obsidian and Double Fine people to fund their games independently and after a few years they all got acquired by MS. Some projects like Phoenix Point got bought by Epic too. So crowdfunding in gaming can certainly be a stepping stone for publishers. You gauge interest then reap the benefits while putting the original backers at a "disadvantage".

Some projects dealt with this in a much better fashion than YSnet here. At this point they have no more goodwill left and everything they do is considered the final straw.
 
bell wood's jet cola

bell wood's jet cola

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Oct 30, 2017
3,147
I mean if the game is actually good, that should redeem all of this to an extent.

We've still got to deal with the possibility of the game being... bad. Yikes. Now that'll be a fun thread.
 
Fitts

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Oct 25, 2017
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Really going hard for that Fail of the Year award, huh?
 
Storm

Storm

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1,026
breakYODAy said:
What makes you think you're eligible to refund your PS4 copy? The refunds are for PC backers unhappy with an EGS key. You guys are acting ridiculous.
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I mean, I love Shenmue. I want this game to be a success, but at this point I'm getting a lesser product than if I was to just purchase the game when it comes out.
 
hank_tree

hank_tree

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Storm said:
I mean, I love Shenmue. I want this game to be a success, but at this point I'm getting a lesser product than if I was to just purchase the game when it comes out.
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I'm pretty sure you got it cheaper on KS,right?

Or was that bloodstained?
 
Meia

Meia

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Oct 26, 2017
1,015
Vamphuntr said:
Nah. Crowdfunding has been used as a stepping stone to getting a publisher's support in many cases like this one, MM9 and Bloodstained for instance.

Games are really expensive to make especially when you start to dole out features and hide them behind arbitrary stretch goal without knowing how much everything will actually cost and how long it will take to develop. Both Bloodstained and this were also delayed multiple times and the publisher is definitely footing the bill. Bloodstained was rebooted and changed developers at least once (from IntiCreate) for instance.

The figs situation was also pretty funny too. It was made by Inxile, Obsidian and Double Fine people to fund their games independently and after a few years they all got acquired by MS. Some projects like Phoenix Point got bought by Epic too. So crowdfunding in gaming can certainly be a stepping stone for publishers. You gauge interest then reap the benefits while putting the original backers at a "disadvantage".

Some projects dealt with this in a much better fashion than YSnet here. At this point they have no more goodwill left and everything they do is considered the final straw.
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I don't really believe that's how it's supposed to be, especially with MN9 and Bloodstained running campaigns built around the idea that "Pubs don't want us to make these types of games anymore, so it's up to you!" ANY KS that NEEDS a pub is a failed one, and yes, I do count Bloodstained in that. Game is great, it's probable the pub even made the game better, but it's not something that should have been needed to do.


I'd also point out that it's only when pubs get thrown into the KS projects that shit starts falling apart for the fans. The only real difference is to what degree based on the pub I guess. Bloodstained? Oh, we have these nice Steelbook cases for pre-orders at Best Buy. No, KS doesn't get those(unless you pay extra and even then not everyone who wants one will get one). KS exclusive rewards, you know, those things that encourage people to put even more money on a game than the base pledge to get a copy? Yeah, those are for everyone now, thanks for your money!
 
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