Shenmue 3 Kickstarter will honor refunds and offers Steam keys with a one-year delay [See Staff Post]

Enforcer

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
1,382
Kinda sad I'm excited about when the refund option is gonna go up.

These are the times we live in...
 

dani_dc

Member
Oct 25, 2017
750
Well this now transforms KS into some project pool for EPIC to buy exclusives from.

Creators will need to answer some very specific questions day 1 to earn people's trust now.

''Will your product be available for multiple distribution platforms, including the multiple choices on PC?''

Y/N/Others: Please specify.

''Will you stick to these words and not let your project being bought out as an exclusive in the middle of the project?''

Y/N
Then eventually one of these projects will sell out anyway.

As it is, Kickstarting PC games isn't something that can be trusted anymore.
 

SteveWinwood

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,284
USA USA USA
I read it. But, as a high tier backer I'm more interested in playing the game, versus complaining about whether the disc has a 50GB .exe on it or not.

Between 2015 and now the climate has changed and YsNet felt it was better for the game to secure more funding. That happened to be via Epic. They wrote a detailed KS update (#104) explaining what that extra funding meant for the game. I was impressed, and though I dislike Epic, their practices and the EGS, I am ultimately OK with it. If it meant a couple of hundred backers along the way got burned on (what I think are) minor things such as a full game install disc, so be it. If the end result is a better game, I think it's a price to pay.

I'm allowed to feel that way, and I know it's different to how you and others in this thread feel. Maybe I don't need to be so dismissive (though my "snarky comment" was hardly offensive, lets be serious now). But at some point you have to ask yourself, is this really worth getting so cut up about? Like, can either of you actually explain to me why you personally are so at odds with this current situation that we need to continuing blaming somebody? Please?

The game is being made, which is amazing in itself. And there are avenues being provided to play it on multiple platforms if you backed it - and if that isn't enough, they're offering you a refund. Who is there to blame, really? And for what? What are we blaming them for?

Come on. Life is too short. It just feels like there is nothing YsNet can do at this point that will satisfy everybody. And that's just sad.
this entire post boils down to why do other people care so much about something one way over another

put this post in literally any other thread on this entire site and see how odd it looks

feel however you want man but then why are you writing paragraphs about this and then accusing others of wasting their lives caring too much about something
 

Resilient

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,195
this entire post boils down to why do other people care so much about something one way over another

put this post in literally any other thread on this entire site and see how odd it looks

feel however you want man but then why are you writing paragraphs about this and then accusing others of wasting their lives caring too much about something
no it doesn't, but thanks for simplifying what i said.
why would I spend time going further and talking about why I feel the way I do, in depth, about this topic, when posts like yours just come in and cut them down like that?

this is why, like I said above - there's no point. and I get the vibe with this particular issue that posters are more in it for the fight and argument than the discussion. if you really want to talk about it, let me know. but from the way you are posting, it doesn't look like it. like...you literally addressed 0 of what I said in your response.

and this is coming from somebody who thinks Epic, their practices, and the EGS are gigantic pieces of shit.
 

Shadoken

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,295
Whats this even all about? Wouldn't "in-game content" be like the game itself? What level of backers will even get a *full* refund o.o?
There are tiers where you as a person could make a cameo in the game as NPC. So if they already the made 3D model and what not , they aren't refunding you for that.
 

LewieP

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,774
There are tiers where you as a person could make a cameo in the game as NPC. So if they already the made 3D model and what not , they aren't refunding you for that.
People who backed at higher amounts are more deserving of a refund imo. I don't know why Sweeney would refuse to offer everyone full refunds.
 

Lindsay

Member
Nov 4, 2017
1,510
There were special tiers where backers can make a cameo in certain forms.
Higher tiers of KS support gave supporters the chance to feature in the game themselves.

Not sure why blame needs to be placed on anybody at this stage considering refunds are being provided and you can swap to a tier that gives you a Steam key. But grrrr me angry.
There are tiers where you as a person could make a cameo in the game as NPC. So if they already the made 3D model and what not , they aren't refunding you for that.
Ohhh ewww. I remember that goal now. That one never sat right by me. Many of the stretch goals didn't but theres no way cameoing real people isn't gonna feel awfully outta place. Still if anyone who backed that high wants a refund they oughta get it in full an let YS patch 'em out. They've surely got the resources to that now.
 

Shadoken

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,295
People who backed at higher amounts are more deserving of a refund imo. I don't know why Sweeney would refuse to offer everyone full refunds.
Yea theres like what 20? 30? backers who are in the $1000+ tier who have ingame content. And going by PS4:PC ratio very few of them would have picked Steam AND want a refund. Its literally nothing for Epic.

Like saying "We'll refund any PC backer who wants one"
is hell of a lot better PR than saying "We'll refund you but not really"

And it would have costed them hardly a few thousand dollars.
 

Velikost

Member
Oct 28, 2017
566
I wonder how 2015 me would feel if I went back in time and told him 4 years later we're more stoked to get a refund than the actual game, and it's all because of Fortnite.

No lie, gonna have to thank all my boys that play that garbo tho, cause their skins and battle pass purchases got me my money back. 🙏🏻
 

Border

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,307
So where do we go to opt-in for the Steam key? The Fangamer survey hasn't even been updated to reflect the Epic Store move.
 

Openrob

Member
Nov 5, 2017
496
I think tere are a lot of people who this EGS thing is a big issue for, and like myself those that feel it's a non issue, but obviously in a thread about it, those most upset are going to be most vocal.

I'm glad they are offering a refund, but it is a shame that Ys Net is being dragged down by issues that people have with EGS. I can understand why, but it's still a shame, especially for a game like Shenmue, which is such a unique case.
 
Last edited:

XaosWolf

Member
Oct 27, 2017
624
Seems an update has been sent directly to backers now:
We apologize for the long delay in responding. An update has been posted with information for refunds, Steam key distribution and platform switching, along with other relevant fulfillment details including stretch goal content adjustments. Many issues that will affect your irrevocable refund decision are presented in the update, so please make sure to read the update carefully.

Update On PC Version Rewards: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ysnet/shenmue-3/posts/2553891

Once refunds are ready to be processed, there will be an update with the necessary steps you will need to take for a refund. Currently, the refund is planned to be transacted through your backer survey.

The refund option has not been added to the backer survey yet, but for future reference, you can go to the Survey Resender and get your survey immediately at: https://fulfillment.fangamer.com/kindling/shenmue3/survey_support

We ask for your patience until preparations have been completed.

Sincerely,
The Shenmue III Team
 

Mengy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
980
Finally. I'll be getting a refund and washing my hands of this Epic Shenmue mess. This whole fiasco has soured me on the game so much that I doubt I'll even buy it on Steam whenever (or if) it ever does come out there, I'd rather not reward this kind of behavior with my money.

Kickstarter is dead to me too, impossible to ever trust it again if big money can just come in and change the terms so completely and easily with no recourse. Never again.

What a fiasco, but lessons learned. Tim is evil, and Kickstarter can't be trusted. Good to know, writing this down, moving on.
 

Shengar

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,047
I couldn't believe Schreier actually try to make Valve paying the holiday for their developer is a bad thing. Or is it that Valve doesn't count as developer now? So much bullshit from Schreier, someone that I expected better. Even more so because at the same time Epic still actively crunch their developer to hell and back.
 

Border

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,307
I couldn't believe Schreier actually try to make Valve paying the holiday for their developer is a bad thing. Or is it that Valve doesn't count as developer now? So much bullshit from Schreier, someone that I expected better. Even more so because at the same time Epic still actively crunch their developer to hell and back.
IIRC Valve's Hawaiian vacation is known as a not-mandatory-but-actually-kind-of-mandatory team-building exercise for people that may or may not want to got to Hawaii or spend vacation time with their co-workers.
 

Fishsnot

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,341
Japan
So he's saying it's going to happen again. Why would anyone back anything ever again?
If anyone has even the smallest sliver of intelligence they will now steer well clear of all crowdfunded games, thanks to that asshole.
He has not only had a negative effecct on Y's Net, Yu Suzuki, and PC gaming in general (Deep Silver needed no help and fucked themselves) that his polluted grasp even extended to crowdfunding.
Don't support Epic Games at all and avoid everything they have, to send out a clear message.
Fortnite money will dry up and it's popularity seems to be slowly dwindling already after two lackluster seasons.
This will happen again I guarantee it, don't be part of the problem. Be part of the solution and avoid EGS like the plauge!
 

TwoPikachus

Member
Nov 15, 2018
107
If anyone has even the smallest sliver of intelligence they will now steer well clear of all crowdfunded games, thanks to that asshole.
He has not only had a negative effecct on Y's Net, Yu Suzuki, and PC gaming in general (Deep Silver needed no help and fucked themselves) that his polluted grasp even extended to crowdfunding.
Don't support Epic Games at all and avoid everything they have, to send out a clear message.
Fortnite money will dry up and it's popularity seems to be slowly dwindling already after two lackluster seasons.
This will happen again I guarantee it, don't be part of the problem. Be part of the solution and avoid EGS like the plauge!
I'm not going to restart development in another engine nor am I going to skip good games made in Unreal Engine, but you can bet your ass I'm not redeeming anything on the EGS for the foreseeable future, let alone buying any games on there.

I'm probably done with Kickstarter too, I mean if I trusted a developer that explicitly said 'no Epic exclusive deals' regarding a campaign I'd consider it, but knowing they can say anything they want and not deliver I'm just too wary and jaded to say I can put fears aside.
 

ParsnipForest

Member
Oct 27, 2017
330
Australia
People who backed at higher amounts are more deserving of a refund imo. I don't know why Sweeney would refuse to offer everyone full refunds.
Presumably they'd refund up to the $200 or so extra they paid to get their face inside a capsule toy or whatever. I think that's fair -- they fulfilled the key part of that reward -- liaised with that backer, spent dev time on it, and implemented it in the game.

All this concern for high-tier backers, but I haven't seen one $600+ tier backer worried that this may affect them or say they want a refund, and I've trawled the cesspit that is the Kickstarter comments. And I've been looking because I'm more interested in those it may actually affect and what they think, as opposed to the people who are angry on their behalf.
 

Krejlooc

Member
Oct 27, 2017
17,163
I've known jschreier for many years, before he worked at wired or kotaku, and consider him a friend. He's just a normal dude, with his own normal blind spots, I don't hold it against him that he looks at this situation regarding Epic Game Store exclusivity differently than me. But I wish he'd frame the anger over the situation from the opposite vantage point a bit more fairly. I'd be willing to express my views in much more detail if he'd wish to listen. Not just regarding shenmue 3, but epic game store exclusivity as a whole. Both from the perspective of a consumer, and a small developer.
 

Got Danny

Member
Nov 8, 2017
511
My order is for the physical PC version. If I don't need to redeem my EGS key in order to get the Steam key later, I'll sell the EGS key.

If I do need to redeem the EGS version in order to claim the Steam version through Epic or something like that... sigh, I'll install EGS on a virtual machine and redeem my key there so that I can redeem it later on Steam lol

I'll not play this game until it's on steam. that's for sure.
is it really THAT serious?
 

Arkanius

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,712
I want to believe that the 5 or so complaints i filled and helped fill against Kickstarter and Ys.net to the European Consumer Defense committee helped / forced someone in the chain to decide for the refunds
 

ParsnipForest

Member
Oct 27, 2017
330
Australia
I want to believe that the 5 or so complaints i filled and helped fill against Kickstarter and Ys.net to the European Consumer Defense committee helped / forced someone in the chain to decide for the refunds
I doubt it. It's a PR move by Epic that's ultimately going to going to cost them chump change. Either way people got what they wanted so who cares.
 

Zonal Hertz

Member
Jun 13, 2018
502
User Banned (3 Days): Ignoring the Staff Post
is it really THAT serious?
Nope not at all. His allegiance to a monopoly is quite bizarre. EGS client isn't great but if I was mad/deluded/passionate enough to think Shenmue 3 is going to be worth playing, I don't see how the client you launch it through would be a factor.
 

GhostTrick

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,050
Nope not at all. His allegiance to a monopoly is quite bizarre. EGS client isn't great but if I was mad/deluded/passionate enough to think Shenmue 3 is going to be worth playing, I don't see how the client you launch it through would be a factor.

That's called putting your money where your mouth is. If more people were like this, the gaming industry would be slightly better. The allegiance to a monopoly is defending the EGS in its current state. "Isn't great". No. It's blatantly shitty. It's not up to 2009 standards. 2009. 10 years ago, we had better launchers. It is a factor because refusing to participate in Epic's launcher means refusing a business model they're pushing for. I'd say it's like refusing a free meal from UberEats. Some people would say "why are you doing that ? It's literally free food delivered to you for free !" Yeah, but some people dont want to see Uber growing more and pushing for a specific economic model which would make the market worse overall.

Is Epic Store 100% negative ? No. If their model is pushed forward, there'll be winners: The big AAA publishers and some AA publishers. The indie market though ? Completly fucked. The customers ? Fucked over and over.
 

Sander VF

The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
8,057
Tbilisi, Georgia
I wonder how 2015 me would feel if I went back in time and told him 4 years later we're more stoked to get a refund than the actual game, and it's all because of Fortnite.

No lie, gonna have to thank all my boys that play that garbo tho, cause their skins and battle pass purchases got me my money back. 🙏🏻
Nah, thank SEGA for not publishing a game called Shenmue fucking 3.
 

neoak

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,665
It's not like Shenmue's a cutting-edge ultra high budget project this time around.

It's a tame kickstarter project that's been at least partly funded without them (the kickistarter goal wasn't the full budget as far as I know)
If they were releasing it like this, you'd be complaining about how "Sega is releasing Shenmue 3 without a cutting-edge ultra high budget"
 

Paragraf

Member
May 31, 2019
146
Russia
I don't know what kind of reaction Deep Silver were expecting with EGS deal in the first place, but in the end i guess it exceeded their expectations. Backers have to wait a YEAR to recieve steam version? What a shitshow.
 

Hucast

Banned
Mar 25, 2019
2,487
I think publishers have lost the realization that Steam saved PC gaming because it killed piracy with its services; starting to take it for granted. Gamers growing attachment has only been good for sales. People who would have been pirating a 60 dollar game would actually find it worth again to spend on that price just to have it on the steam launcher. They have really started to take it for granted.
 

Kinn

Member
Oct 28, 2017
208
Sorry if this has been answered already,but will they offer a refund for just the game or the whole amount you put into the kickstarter?
 

Demacabre

Member
Nov 20, 2017
2,030
I don't know what kind of reaction Deep Silver were expecting with EGS deal in the first place, but in the end i guess it exceeded their expectations. Backers have to wait a YEAR to recieve steam version? What a shitshow.
Pretty sure Deep Silver just wanted money and figured they can wait out the reaction. That's what the companies involved and even the press are figuring: ignore the outrage, give token hollow PR statements in defense , consumer reaction will tire out, and then return to business as usual.
 

Pargon

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,525
People being salty for not getting a physical PC version without DRM are ridiculous. Have there ever been a game with everything on a disc for the last 10 years?
Do you really think anyone wanted to pay $30 for a Steam installer on a disc, which has now been replaced with an EGS installer?
It's irrelevant as to whether anyone else has released their game on a disc in the past 10 years, since that's what they advertised they were doing with Shenmue 3.
But since you asked, here's another one:

[…] Even a bunch of indiedevelopers had called out that article for BS, but no one at Polygon cared.


And FWIW, the developers the "journalist" had spoken with, was the dev behind... this https://store.steampowered.com/app/710690/The_Path_of_Motus/
This is often what happens with "we talked to a developer criticizing Steam" articles that the press have been running for a while now.
It's essentially small indie devs blaming Steam for their game's failures, rather than taking any responsibility themselves. Never mind that their games wouldn't even be allowed on EGS.
It's very prevalent any time there are new articles saying how Valve needs better curation and they get quotes from developers. They essentially say that Valve needs to "stop letting in so many shovelware indie games, they're taking attention away from MY shovelware indie game. You need to start promoting it for free too!"

That's good - this won't affect Yu and YsNet in the slightest :)
It's good for Ys Net, but bad for anyone that backed the game. There should be repercussions for their actions.
Will not ask for a refund (on my $330) but it will be a forever sour taste when taking out that disc with just an installer on it. Depressing.
With EGS providing the money to cover refunds, you should claim back every cent guilt-free. It's still essentially an interest-free loan, but at least you're fucked over less by getting that money back.
Buy the game with that money later if you really want it (I guess you do, since you paid $330) and pocket the difference.
How much money does Epic have to keep doing this kind of stuff? because it's not the first time.
Fortnite made an estimated $2.4 billion last year (somehow). It's not going to stop any time soon.
My order is for the physical PC version. If I don't need to redeem my EGS key in order to get the Steam key later, I'll sell the EGS key.
If I do need to redeem the EGS version in order to claim the Steam version through Epic or something like that... sigh, I'll install EGS on a virtual machine and redeem my key there so that I can redeem it later on Steam lol
I'll not play this game until it's on steam. that's for sure.
Unless things change, EGS itself does not seem to add any DRM, so you should be able to download it in the VM and copy it to your host PC and play without the EGS client.
I think publishers have lost the realization that Steam saved PC gaming because it killed piracy with its services; starting to take it for granted. Gamers growing attachment has only been good for sales. People who would have been pirating a 60 dollar game would actually find it worth again to spend on that price just to have it on the steam launcher. They have really started to take it for granted.
I know people that have started pirating games again thanks to this EGS mess, and publishers moving away from Steam to their own storefront.
 

Bowl0l

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,331
Credits goes to Antonio
Code:
For those wondering about Season Pass, I just got a reply from YS Net: (tl:dr - backers won't get content in pre-orders/deluxe edition, including the season pass)

Dear Antonio,

We apologize for the long delay in responding. Your feedback is appreciated and we will look into having your noted points in future updates.

Standard and deluxe versions released through retail sales are not affiliated with the crowdfunding campaign, so will not be included with backer pledges, however, they will be available for sale separately. Kickstarter Backers will receive the Kickstarter version, Slacker Backers will receive the Slacker Backer version. Both have unique content respective to their versions not available in the retail versions.

A season pass is not included.

Trial version release date info has yet to be confirmed and will be announced in the updates when details are available. You will be receiving your trial trial version, but we must ask for your patience for a little longer.

There will be more information following in the days ahead concerning updates.

Sincerely,

The Shenmue III Team
tl:dr - backers won't get content in pre-orders/deluxe edition, including the season pass

There's also some weird crowd posting about minority representation and blaming Steam to drown out questions from backers.
 
Jun 12, 2018
125
Credits goes to Antonio
Code:
For those wondering about Season Pass, I just got a reply from YS Net: (tl:dr - backers won't get content in pre-orders/deluxe edition, including the season pass)

Dear Antonio,

We apologize for the long delay in responding. Your feedback is appreciated and we will look into having your noted points in future updates.

Standard and deluxe versions released through retail sales are not affiliated with the crowdfunding campaign, so will not be included with backer pledges, however, they will be available for sale separately. Kickstarter Backers will receive the Kickstarter version, Slacker Backers will receive the Slacker Backer version. Both have unique content respective to their versions not available in the retail versions.

A season pass is not included.

Trial version release date info has yet to be confirmed and will be announced in the updates when details are available. You will be receiving your trial trial version, but we must ask for your patience for a little longer.

There will be more information following in the days ahead concerning updates.

Sincerely,

The Shenmue III Team
tl:dr - backers won't get content in pre-orders/deluxe edition, including the season pass
Makes sense. I backed what was advertised in the KS, so I have no quarrel about the season pass or retail editions, since that's not what was advertised during the campaign.
 

Hektor

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,155
Deutschland
Imagine you backed the game for a 1000€ and now still need to fork over more for a season pass 😂

Now of course a season pass was never spoken about on kickstarter so it's wholly their right to do it, but man, it's not that much to ask to be nice to your high tier backers at least and give them the season pass for their trust and support as a bonus.