Shenmue III is timed exclusive to Epic Games Store, backers PC code redeemed on EGS & no refund (See Threadmark) [READ STAFF POSTS BEFORE POSTING]

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Oct 25, 2017
2,923
I hate that Shenmue had to get sucked into this bullshit. The last thing it needs is to piss off a segment of fence sitters that wanted to give the franchise a chance.
It's not just fence sitters. I'm a longtime fan who has been waiting for this game for 15 years or so, and I backed in the first hour of the project going live. I'm now trying to get a refund and have no intention to ever spend money on this game. The contempt they have for their fans has really pissed me off.
 

Blunoise

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,151
Atlanta, GA
Ok. This is a sad day for gamers and and shenmue. First I want to say that I think it’s wrong for fans who waited for 20years to let this destroy their own series they waited forever for. It’s not like the game was cancel, I do agree that it was wronged that it switch from steam to epic but I’m tired of gamers picking up pitchforks and changing tone 1 sec. I do belive that you Suzuki was prob tricked into going into epic and prob didn’t see the difference from the two so I bet he is confused wit the outcry. To him he prob didn’t think he tricked users just that epic store wasn’t better, it was prob deep silver that’s the one to blame. But hey if we don’t get shenmue 4 now I hope the fans are happy when this dies down
 

AmirMoosavi

Member
Dec 10, 2018
87
There's probably not other story rather than Epic offering money and Deep Silver went all in with their portfolio.
Maybe for the Epic exclusivity deal, but I get the impression that the Deep Silver deal was likely done due to diminishing funds for development. I know that there was funding from Shibuya Productions in addition to the Kickstarter money, but I doubt all of that together would have funded the dev team for four years.
 

Ferrio

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,178
I hate that Shenmue had to get sucked into this bullshit. The last thing it needs is to piss off a segment of fence sitters that wanted to give the franchise a chance.
I'd be surprised if there were fence sitters to begin with. This game is almost exclusively for fans of the previous 2 games, which makes it weird that they wanna make it exclusive on a platform where most the users weren't even alive and won't give the new game a moments notice.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,662
I think the trailers scared away the fence sitters.

These overwhelmingly negative PR snafus exterminated the fan base.
I went to go see the trailer because of this post. What's so bad about it? Are people expecting a AAA Yakuza title here somehow? It's the same bad kung-fu-dub Shenmue we know and love, and the visuals look great for what is essentially a B-title with a low budget. Honestly, this is why B-tier gaming has gone extinct. Anything touching a 7/10 or lesser than Last of Us fidelity feels like a death sentence.
 

Blunoise

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,151
Atlanta, GA
I went to go see the trailer because of this post. What's so bad about it? Are people expecting a AAA Yakuza title here somehow? It's the same bad kung-fu-dub Shenmue we know and love, and the visuals look great for what is essentially a B-title with a low budget. Honestly, this is why B-tier gaming has gone extinct. Anything touching a 7/10 or lesser than Last of Us fidelity feels like a death sentence.
Yep gamers have become shallow and expect everything to look like last of us games or dare I say Anthem. Because graphics equal good gameplay
 

Axisofweevils

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,451
I've seen lots of comments like this and it infuriates me. Not that I'm mad at you or anyone else feeling so burned by KS that they won't back anything else again, because I can understand that, but rather for Shenmue III poisoning the well like this. I say this because I have been planning a KS campaign for a long time, and reading this stuff makes me realize that Deep Silver's greed here is literally affecting completely unrelated projects. And, potentially, my own bottom line. Fucking greed.
The way to do it is just vow not tto take money from the Epic Store to remove yourself from Steam. I think Firmanent from Cyan only got the backing because they promised not to do that....
 

ExoExplorer

Member
Jan 3, 2019
38
Ok. This is a sad day for gamers and and shenmue. First I want to say that I think it’s wrong for fans who waited for 20years to let this destroy their own series they waited forever for. It’s not like the game was cancel, I do agree that it was wronged that it switch from steam to epic but I’m tired of gamers picking up pitchforks and changing tone 1 sec. I do belive that you Suzuki was prob tricked into going into epic and prob didn’t see the difference from the two so I bet he is confused wit the outcry. To him he prob didn’t think he tricked users just that epic store wasn’t better, it was prob deep silver that’s the one to blame. But hey if we don’t get shenmue 4 now I hope the fans are happy when this dies down
I don't think these type of exclusivity deals happen by accident. They must have known what they were doing, and if not incompetence isn't a good look either.
 

Fahdi

Member
Jun 5, 2018
559
I feel so bad for fans of the series right now. Hope all the things get settled. This is on par with MGSV levels of disappointment.
 

Lindsay

Member
Nov 4, 2017
1,414
Ok. This is a sad day for gamers and and shenmue. First I want to say that I think it’s wrong for fans who waited for 20years to let this destroy their own series they waited forever for. It’s not like the game was cancel, I do agree that it was wronged that it switch from steam to epic but I’m tired of gamers picking up pitchforks and changing tone 1 sec.
The ones "destroying" the series are those who decided ta sell out their biggest most dedicated fans and backers. US Shenmue fans already went through this nonsense back with Shenmue 2. This reopening old wounds an certainly not a better the second time around. They're also "destroying" the series by not making the game widely available in as many storefronts as possible an instead making it exclusive to one of the smallest ones. Exactly none of this is on the fans who backed this game well beyond muitiple goals.

I do belive that you Suzuki was prob tricked into going into epic and prob didn’t see the difference from the two so I bet he is confused wit the outcry. To him he prob didn’t think he tricked users just that epic store wasn’t better, it was prob deep silver that’s the one to blame. But hey if we don’t get shenmue 4 now I hope the fans are happy when this dies down
I believe he either wasn't involved in this decisions, or was, and as such complicit. Its his baby, his project, an if he didn't do his due diligence (or signed the rights away to Deep Silver to make such decisions) then he's far from blameless.
 

Sei

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,242
LA
The troll posts in this thread are embarrassing. We get it, not everyone cares about Shenmue. Some of us do and have been waiting 18 years for this game. I don’t go into threads for games I’m not interested in to rain on the parade.

I’m happy to hear this just because it means Yu Suzuki and the devs got a nice payment from Epic.
Nobody knows who got money. Deep Silver is also a publisher for the game on PC, could be the scenerio were they got all the money for giving away exclusivity rights on PC and YSteam got nothing.

But nobody knows.
 
Oct 30, 2017
1,211
I went to go see the trailer because of this post. What's so bad about it? Are people expecting a AAA Yakuza title here somehow? It's the same bad kung-fu-dub Shenmue we know and love, and the visuals look great for what is essentially a B-title with a low budget. Honestly, this is why B-tier gaming has gone extinct. Anything touching a 7/10 or lesser than Last of Us fidelity feels like a death sentence.
It’s just nothing. The game is out in a couple months and it looks blah.
Yep gamers have become shallow and expect everything to look like last of us games or dare I say Anthem. Because graphics equal good gameplay
omao. I backed Shenmue 3 for $1,500 and have spent the last few years trying to stay positive. So far, the game looks bad to middling depending on the trailer. I shouldn’t even say game since they’ve yet to show gameplay. I thought the last trailer was decent, but whatever they showed today just embarrassed me. I don’t need to say all this to defend myself, but I’d like to because I’m really not trying to be shallow or negative. It’s no exaggeration when I say Shenmue 3 is the game I’ve waited for nearly my entire life.

I’m starting to wish Yu Suzuki has just lowered his ambition and focused on a great story and scenarios instead of attempting another open world game.

My faith in Yu Suzuki is the only thing that’s carried me for four years, but I fear he’s surrounded by people who don’t have his best interests in mind and that he couldn’t afford the talent to make a proper Shenmue 3. I hope I’m wrong.

This news definitely isn’t going to help things.
 

batfax

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,223
I believe he either wasn't involved in this decisions, or was, and as such complicit. Its his baby, his project, an if he didn't do his due diligence (or signed the rights away to Deep Silver to make such decisions) then he's far from blameless.
I think plenty of us know by now that publishers are usually the ones to muck things up with projects over developers. I'm not going to jump to blame YsNet or Yu Suzuki directly for this mess at all considering that the reason they likely needed a publisher at all was that publishing Shenmue wasn't something they could do on their own. 3 or however many years ago, DeepSilver was a pretty well known and trusted publisher of a lot of SEGA and Atlus titles in the EU and YsNet would have no reason not to trust them if they were the best offer for publisher. Things have gone bad really quickly for them.
 

Resilient

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,079
I feel so bad for fans of the series right now. Hope all the things get settled. This is on par with MGSV levels of disappointment.
yep, I feel like I'm getting MGSV'd all over again and I'm not even a long time fan.

just a weird decision all around. this reception should have been expected considering 2 other games have done this and received the same level of backlash, in recent months. so it's baffling that they felt going with EGS was the right choice, knowing what it would do to the fanbase (fracture it).

as for the trailer, I felt like it lacked strong enough narrative. this is a fine trailer for existing fans but a poor one for curious/prospective fans. the MAGIC trailer was way better than this; again, a baffling decision considering the stage this trailer was on :(
 

unrealist

Member
Oct 27, 2017
503
Weeks before Metro: Exodus, it became an EGS exclusive. The publisher is also Deep Silver. At least it is not just announced at the very last min.
 

Cipherr

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,539
As someone who does not play games on pc, can someone elaborate on why it's bad that it changes store? Do you have to pay a fee to get in to epic store or what? Isn't it just like shopping groceries at different supermarkets?

Here, this post perfectly explains it. As you can imagine, its not as simple as changing stores. If it were that simple, noone would care:

Firstly, understand that when people talk about steam, and the epic game store, they're actually talking about two different things at the exact same time. It's confusing to people who don't intimately understand technology, but these things, launchers are some call them, are a combination of store front, and technology suite. I'm sure you've heard of things like OpenGL or DirectX, those are technologies that help make games, specifically those technologies are middlewares that drive graphics cards. They make up a standard language so a game developer can target a "virtual" openGL or directX card, and the people behind OpenGL and DirectX (Khronos and Microsoft) then take care of making their "virtual" card work with physical cards. So from the perspective of a developer, you write for one "virtual" card, and the makers of that "virtual" card spend lots of money making it work with lots of real, physical cards. This is called interfacing.

Steam, the client, has a store bundled with it, but it is also a suite of tools. Steam, the client, can be thought of like DirectX, it does lots and lots of things beyond merely selling you the game. For example, there is this thing called Steam Proton which is an automatic translation layer for linux. With steam proton, you can run any windows game in linux, something thought absolutely impossible years ago. Steam is brimming with technologies like this, like Steam Input, which is how things like Dual Shock Controllers work.

You don't have to buy from Steam, the store, to use Steam, the client's tools. When you buy a game from, like, amazon, the sale goes entirely through amazon, and valve doesn't take 30% because they didn't actually facilitate the sale. But when you buy that game from amazon, or target.com, or where ever, they give you a special "installer" that you can pop into the steam client, and it'll use all the steam client features.

The Epic Games Store is, like the steam client, both a store and a suite of tools. But as a suite of tools, it's anemic. Not a fraction of what steam, the client, does. But worse than that, Epic is relying on people's confusion and inability to understand the difference between a store front and a suite of tools to muddy the picture. Were, for example, Epic Game Store just selling Steam Client installers, like Uplay does, nobody would have a fucking problem at all. But they don't. Instead, when something is "epic store exclusive," that means epic paid to both keep the game off of Valve's technology suite, AND keep it off of every other store besides their own. When something uses steam's technology, they are NOT exclusive to steam, the store. But people who don't know the difference think everything using steam's technology is the same as being exclusive to steam, the store.

By making things exclusive to epic games store, not only are they limiting the number of places where a buyer can purchase from (which has the demonstrable effect of raising game prices), it also cuts features from certain games by keeping them from using steam technologies.





In short, when things go "Epic games store" exclusive, they are limiting the places one can buy from, limiting the feature set of said, usually raising the price of said game, for absolutely no benefit to the consumer at all.

And, as an indie developer, Epic itself creates this division between games it allows onto the store, and games it does not. For games that are not allowed onto the store, it creates an unfair stigma, like those games are somehow lesser games, that actually hurts bottom lines. I don't want to use a specific example by name, because the specific dev got harassed when they made this known, but there was a well known, well reviewed game on steam that got denied a spot on epic game store, and after it got denied, the narrative on twitter turned into "something must clearly be wrong with the game if it got denied a spot on the store" and their sales actually slumped. One of the best features of steam, the store, from the perspective of small developers, is that it puts everyone on equal footing. A dude in bedroom can make a game and it's sold right alongside games made by 1000 person studios with million dollar budgets as though they were equals. EGS creates a division of haves vs have nots that hurt small developers.

EGS is bad for PC gaming all around.

Lots of people assume its JUST the store though, and repeat it ad nauseam in these threads, and it gets super annoying trying to explain it to trolls who aren't going to listen anyway.
 

nampad

Member
Oct 27, 2017
900
What a clusterfuck. People backed for Steam keys and as this thread shows, the platform is important for some people.

They shouldn’t have done this.
 

Blunoise

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,151
Atlanta, GA
It’s just nothing. The game is out in a couple months and it looks blah.

omao. I backed Shenmue 3 for $1,500 and have spent the last few years trying to stay positive. So far, the game looks bad to middling depending on the trailer. I shouldn’t even say game since they’ve yet to show gameplay. I thought the last trailer was decent, but whatever they showed today just embarrassed me. I don’t need to say all this to defend myself, but I’d like to because I’m really not trying to be shallow or negative. It’s no exaggeration when I say Shenmue 3 is the game I’ve waited for nearly my entire life.

I’m starting to wish Yu Suzuki has just lowered his ambition and focused on a great story and scenarios instead of attempting another open world game.

My faith in Yu Suzuki is the only thing that’s carried me for four years, but I fear he’s surrounded by people who don’t have his best interests in mind and that he couldn’t afford the talent to make a proper Shenmue 3. I hope I’m wrong.

This news definitely isn’t going to help things.
Gameplay will be on GameStop Wednesday
 

unrealist

Member
Oct 27, 2017
503
Making a game is tough and needs tons of money nowadays. But it is still shitty to get funds from your fans and EGS at the same time. I bet EGS could have solely funded this entire project without needing a kickstarter.
 

muteKi

Member
Oct 22, 2018
6,151
a sunken pirate ship
Oh yeah, that's by far the reason why people are so angry.

everything Epic does is screaming " we are going to muscle our way into forcing you to give us 15 to 20% of your PC gaming money, and there's nothing you can do about it except stop gaming all together." But they won't shut up about how awesome they are. It's completely obvious, and the way they try to spin it is just insulting and shows how little respect they have for the prospective customers. Especially since they pretty much told PC Gamers "You're not worth it" a while back, talking about various problems that several storefronts and companies, particularly valve, have worked passionately to resolve. they are The Losers of yesteryear now performing a Shakedown acting like they are hot shit
The frustrating thing is that I think there are ways they could have spun these decisions or slight changes in policy they could have made that don't suck so much.

If Epic was more focused on games like Journey on here that had previously been console-exclusive and showed no signs of coming to PC then that would be one thing (heck I'm pretty sure I only installed EGS because Shadow Complex was free on it ages ago, for the similar reason). They could at least use that to justify "we're expanding/making pc gaming better". Certainly not everyone would love the idea, but at the same time one of the reasons that Steam is supported on a level that GOG isn't is that it has support for DRM including its own specific algorithms for it. Or tie in Unreal Engine to the store in a way similar to what Steam does with their workshop / make it easier to publish your game on their service if you're using Unreal (i.e., tie it into a sort of support contract). These are things that would mean that EGS has a different ecosystem from the games on Steam but have benefits beyond giving someone else more money.

I think given the response to Phoenix Point that there won't be an answer that all the backers will accept but something like "We're accepting the money offered to us by Epic in order to better support this game long-term with patches and make it easier to have a sequel" would probably go across more easily. Considering how long we've gone under the expectation nobody wanted to fund a Shenmue III in the first place, I think more people could accept this if it carried with it a stronger promise of greenlighting a Shenmue IV, even if the Epic Store infrastructure is lacking. But it's just "this is a better experience" with no detail about what will make the experience better.
 

morningbus

Member
Oct 31, 2017
124
I've been saying this was going to happen since Epic started this shit. Epic wants to make the biggest noise possible with these moves and what better way than a game fans said they'd do basically anything for?

I would have bought dedicated hardware to play this game but I refuse to support the Epic store after this and, honestly, it makes me suspect of the people making this game.

There were so many ways to do this deal, even if Epic made you an offer you couldn't refuse. They allowed the grossest, worst deal possible for fans.
 

MultiverseMob

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,403
Silicon Valley
Weeks before Metro: Exodus, it became an EGS exclusive. The publisher is also Deep Silver. At least it is not just announced at the very last min.
Yep, though DeepSilver was not involved during the Kickstarter when I backed it.

I've reported the project, and contacted Y's net because the treatment of fans and betrayal of trust is just getting out of hand.

My fan backer survey still has me confirmed for a copy of the game on Steam. Yeah. Fuck Epic Games Store. Will not support this predatory BS.
 

jdmc13

Member
Mar 14, 2019
58
Got a response from my Kickstarter message, skimmed the last few pages and didn't see it:
Oof, retroactive to people who already purchased and no refunds. That isn't even burning the bridge. That's burning the bridge, its bridge parents, its bridge children, its bridge friends, its bridge dog and spitting on their watery graves.
 

Jom

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,567
I'm a backer and I feel like it's really shitty to promise people a Steam copy and then to do this. Everyone who wanted a Steam copy should, at the very least, get a full refund.
 

Hucast

Member
Mar 25, 2019
1,451
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