• The GiftBot 2.0 Launch Giveaway Extravaganza has come to a close with an astounding 8073 games given away to the community by 696 members, a huge success thanks to you! The gifting now continues with more official prizes in the new Gaming Giveaways |OT|. Leftover Steam codes are also being given away to the PC Gaming Era community.

Shenmue III is timed exclusive to Epic Games Store, backers PC code redeemed on EGS & no refund (See Threadmark) [READ STAFF POSTS BEFORE POSTING]

Status
Not open for further replies.

Lindsay

Member
Nov 4, 2017
1,636
Ok. This is a sad day for gamers and and shenmue. First I want to say that I think it’s wrong for fans who waited for 20years to let this destroy their own series they waited forever for. It’s not like the game was cancel, I do agree that it was wronged that it switch from steam to epic but I’m tired of gamers picking up pitchforks and changing tone 1 sec.
The ones "destroying" the series are those who decided ta sell out their biggest most dedicated fans and backers. US Shenmue fans already went through this nonsense back with Shenmue 2. This reopening old wounds an certainly not a better the second time around. They're also "destroying" the series by not making the game widely available in as many storefronts as possible an instead making it exclusive to one of the smallest ones. Exactly none of this is on the fans who backed this game well beyond muitiple goals.

I do belive that you Suzuki was prob tricked into going into epic and prob didn’t see the difference from the two so I bet he is confused wit the outcry. To him he prob didn’t think he tricked users just that epic store wasn’t better, it was prob deep silver that’s the one to blame. But hey if we don’t get shenmue 4 now I hope the fans are happy when this dies down
I believe he either wasn't involved in this decisions, or was, and as such complicit. Its his baby, his project, an if he didn't do his due diligence (or signed the rights away to Deep Silver to make such decisions) then he's far from blameless.
 

Sei

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,563
LA
The troll posts in this thread are embarrassing. We get it, not everyone cares about Shenmue. Some of us do and have been waiting 18 years for this game. I don’t go into threads for games I’m not interested in to rain on the parade.

I’m happy to hear this just because it means Yu Suzuki and the devs got a nice payment from Epic.
Nobody knows who got money. Deep Silver is also a publisher for the game on PC, could be the scenerio were they got all the money for giving away exclusivity rights on PC and YSteam got nothing.

But nobody knows.
 
Oct 30, 2017
1,768
I went to go see the trailer because of this post. What's so bad about it? Are people expecting a AAA Yakuza title here somehow? It's the same bad kung-fu-dub Shenmue we know and love, and the visuals look great for what is essentially a B-title with a low budget. Honestly, this is why B-tier gaming has gone extinct. Anything touching a 7/10 or lesser than Last of Us fidelity feels like a death sentence.
It’s just nothing. The game is out in a couple months and it looks blah.
Yep gamers have become shallow and expect everything to look like last of us games or dare I say Anthem. Because graphics equal good gameplay
omao. I backed Shenmue 3 for $1,500 and have spent the last few years trying to stay positive. So far, the game looks bad to middling depending on the trailer. I shouldn’t even say game since they’ve yet to show gameplay. I thought the last trailer was decent, but whatever they showed today just embarrassed me. I don’t need to say all this to defend myself, but I’d like to because I’m really not trying to be shallow or negative. It’s no exaggeration when I say Shenmue 3 is the game I’ve waited for nearly my entire life.

I’m starting to wish Yu Suzuki has just lowered his ambition and focused on a great story and scenarios instead of attempting another open world game.

My faith in Yu Suzuki is the only thing that’s carried me for four years, but I fear he’s surrounded by people who don’t have his best interests in mind and that he couldn’t afford the talent to make a proper Shenmue 3. I hope I’m wrong.

This news definitely isn’t going to help things.
 

ShinUltramanJ

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,653
Deep Silver’s going to have their hands outstretched to Epic for everything they publish.

It would’ve been better if Sega published.
 

batfax

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,717
I believe he either wasn't involved in this decisions, or was, and as such complicit. Its his baby, his project, an if he didn't do his due diligence (or signed the rights away to Deep Silver to make such decisions) then he's far from blameless.
I think plenty of us know by now that publishers are usually the ones to muck things up with projects over developers. I'm not going to jump to blame YsNet or Yu Suzuki directly for this mess at all considering that the reason they likely needed a publisher at all was that publishing Shenmue wasn't something they could do on their own. 3 or however many years ago, DeepSilver was a pretty well known and trusted publisher of a lot of SEGA and Atlus titles in the EU and YsNet would have no reason not to trust them if they were the best offer for publisher. Things have gone bad really quickly for them.
 

Resilient

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,335
I feel so bad for fans of the series right now. Hope all the things get settled. This is on par with MGSV levels of disappointment.
yep, I feel like I'm getting MGSV'd all over again and I'm not even a long time fan.

just a weird decision all around. this reception should have been expected considering 2 other games have done this and received the same level of backlash, in recent months. so it's baffling that they felt going with EGS was the right choice, knowing what it would do to the fanbase (fracture it).

as for the trailer, I felt like it lacked strong enough narrative. this is a fine trailer for existing fans but a poor one for curious/prospective fans. the MAGIC trailer was way better than this; again, a baffling decision considering the stage this trailer was on :(
 

unrealist

Member
Oct 27, 2017
527
Weeks before Metro: Exodus, it became an EGS exclusive. The publisher is also Deep Silver. At least it is not just announced at the very last min.
 

Cipherr

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,354
As someone who does not play games on pc, can someone elaborate on why it's bad that it changes store? Do you have to pay a fee to get in to epic store or what? Isn't it just like shopping groceries at different supermarkets?

Here, this post perfectly explains it. As you can imagine, its not as simple as changing stores. If it were that simple, noone would care:

Firstly, understand that when people talk about steam, and the epic game store, they're actually talking about two different things at the exact same time. It's confusing to people who don't intimately understand technology, but these things, launchers are some call them, are a combination of store front, and technology suite. I'm sure you've heard of things like OpenGL or DirectX, those are technologies that help make games, specifically those technologies are middlewares that drive graphics cards. They make up a standard language so a game developer can target a "virtual" openGL or directX card, and the people behind OpenGL and DirectX (Khronos and Microsoft) then take care of making their "virtual" card work with physical cards. So from the perspective of a developer, you write for one "virtual" card, and the makers of that "virtual" card spend lots of money making it work with lots of real, physical cards. This is called interfacing.

Steam, the client, has a store bundled with it, but it is also a suite of tools. Steam, the client, can be thought of like DirectX, it does lots and lots of things beyond merely selling you the game. For example, there is this thing called Steam Proton which is an automatic translation layer for linux. With steam proton, you can run any windows game in linux, something thought absolutely impossible years ago. Steam is brimming with technologies like this, like Steam Input, which is how things like Dual Shock Controllers work.

You don't have to buy from Steam, the store, to use Steam, the client's tools. When you buy a game from, like, amazon, the sale goes entirely through amazon, and valve doesn't take 30% because they didn't actually facilitate the sale. But when you buy that game from amazon, or target.com, or where ever, they give you a special "installer" that you can pop into the steam client, and it'll use all the steam client features.

The Epic Games Store is, like the steam client, both a store and a suite of tools. But as a suite of tools, it's anemic. Not a fraction of what steam, the client, does. But worse than that, Epic is relying on people's confusion and inability to understand the difference between a store front and a suite of tools to muddy the picture. Were, for example, Epic Game Store just selling Steam Client installers, like Uplay does, nobody would have a fucking problem at all. But they don't. Instead, when something is "epic store exclusive," that means epic paid to both keep the game off of Valve's technology suite, AND keep it off of every other store besides their own. When something uses steam's technology, they are NOT exclusive to steam, the store. But people who don't know the difference think everything using steam's technology is the same as being exclusive to steam, the store.

By making things exclusive to epic games store, not only are they limiting the number of places where a buyer can purchase from (which has the demonstrable effect of raising game prices), it also cuts features from certain games by keeping them from using steam technologies.





In short, when things go "Epic games store" exclusive, they are limiting the places one can buy from, limiting the feature set of said, usually raising the price of said game, for absolutely no benefit to the consumer at all.

And, as an indie developer, Epic itself creates this division between games it allows onto the store, and games it does not. For games that are not allowed onto the store, it creates an unfair stigma, like those games are somehow lesser games, that actually hurts bottom lines. I don't want to use a specific example by name, because the specific dev got harassed when they made this known, but there was a well known, well reviewed game on steam that got denied a spot on epic game store, and after it got denied, the narrative on twitter turned into "something must clearly be wrong with the game if it got denied a spot on the store" and their sales actually slumped. One of the best features of steam, the store, from the perspective of small developers, is that it puts everyone on equal footing. A dude in bedroom can make a game and it's sold right alongside games made by 1000 person studios with million dollar budgets as though they were equals. EGS creates a division of haves vs have nots that hurt small developers.

EGS is bad for PC gaming all around.

Lots of people assume its JUST the store though, and repeat it ad nauseam in these threads, and it gets super annoying trying to explain it to trolls who aren't going to listen anyway.
 

nampad

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,004
What a clusterfuck. People backed for Steam keys and as this thread shows, the platform is important for some people.

They shouldn’t have done this.
 

Blunoise

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,345
Atlanta, GA
It’s just nothing. The game is out in a couple months and it looks blah.

omao. I backed Shenmue 3 for $1,500 and have spent the last few years trying to stay positive. So far, the game looks bad to middling depending on the trailer. I shouldn’t even say game since they’ve yet to show gameplay. I thought the last trailer was decent, but whatever they showed today just embarrassed me. I don’t need to say all this to defend myself, but I’d like to because I’m really not trying to be shallow or negative. It’s no exaggeration when I say Shenmue 3 is the game I’ve waited for nearly my entire life.

I’m starting to wish Yu Suzuki has just lowered his ambition and focused on a great story and scenarios instead of attempting another open world game.

My faith in Yu Suzuki is the only thing that’s carried me for four years, but I fear he’s surrounded by people who don’t have his best interests in mind and that he couldn’t afford the talent to make a proper Shenmue 3. I hope I’m wrong.

This news definitely isn’t going to help things.
Gameplay will be on GameStop Wednesday
 

unrealist

Member
Oct 27, 2017
527
Making a game is tough and needs tons of money nowadays. But it is still shitty to get funds from your fans and EGS at the same time. I bet EGS could have solely funded this entire project without needing a kickstarter.
 

muteKi

Member
Oct 22, 2018
10,404
a sunken pirate ship
Oh yeah, that's by far the reason why people are so angry.

everything Epic does is screaming " we are going to muscle our way into forcing you to give us 15 to 20% of your PC gaming money, and there's nothing you can do about it except stop gaming all together." But they won't shut up about how awesome they are. It's completely obvious, and the way they try to spin it is just insulting and shows how little respect they have for the prospective customers. Especially since they pretty much told PC Gamers "You're not worth it" a while back, talking about various problems that several storefronts and companies, particularly valve, have worked passionately to resolve. they are The Losers of yesteryear now performing a Shakedown acting like they are hot shit
The frustrating thing is that I think there are ways they could have spun these decisions or slight changes in policy they could have made that don't suck so much.

If Epic was more focused on games like Journey on here that had previously been console-exclusive and showed no signs of coming to PC then that would be one thing (heck I'm pretty sure I only installed EGS because Shadow Complex was free on it ages ago, for the similar reason). They could at least use that to justify "we're expanding/making pc gaming better". Certainly not everyone would love the idea, but at the same time one of the reasons that Steam is supported on a level that GOG isn't is that it has support for DRM including its own specific algorithms for it. Or tie in Unreal Engine to the store in a way similar to what Steam does with their workshop / make it easier to publish your game on their service if you're using Unreal (i.e., tie it into a sort of support contract). These are things that would mean that EGS has a different ecosystem from the games on Steam but have benefits beyond giving someone else more money.

I think given the response to Phoenix Point that there won't be an answer that all the backers will accept but something like "We're accepting the money offered to us by Epic in order to better support this game long-term with patches and make it easier to have a sequel" would probably go across more easily. Considering how long we've gone under the expectation nobody wanted to fund a Shenmue III in the first place, I think more people could accept this if it carried with it a stronger promise of greenlighting a Shenmue IV, even if the Epic Store infrastructure is lacking. But it's just "this is a better experience" with no detail about what will make the experience better.
 

morningbus

Member
Oct 31, 2017
278
I've been saying this was going to happen since Epic started this shit. Epic wants to make the biggest noise possible with these moves and what better way than a game fans said they'd do basically anything for?

I would have bought dedicated hardware to play this game but I refuse to support the Epic store after this and, honestly, it makes me suspect of the people making this game.

There were so many ways to do this deal, even if Epic made you an offer you couldn't refuse. They allowed the grossest, worst deal possible for fans.
 

MultiMoo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,830
Silicon Valley
Weeks before Metro: Exodus, it became an EGS exclusive. The publisher is also Deep Silver. At least it is not just announced at the very last min.
Yep, though DeepSilver was not involved during the Kickstarter when I backed it.

I've reported the project, and contacted Y's net because the treatment of fans and betrayal of trust is just getting out of hand.

My fan backer survey still has me confirmed for a copy of the game on Steam. Yeah. Fuck Epic Games Store. Will not support this predatory BS.
 

jdmc13

Member
Mar 14, 2019
172
Got a response from my Kickstarter message, skimmed the last few pages and didn't see it:
Oof, retroactive to people who already purchased and no refunds. That isn't even burning the bridge. That's burning the bridge, its bridge parents, its bridge children, its bridge friends, its bridge dog and spitting on their watery graves.
 

Jom

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,749
I'm a backer and I feel like it's really shitty to promise people a Steam copy and then to do this. Everyone who wanted a Steam copy should, at the very least, get a full refund.
 

Antony

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,753
Nintendo Land
Not to say that it’s not justified, but the fact this is the biggest Shenmue 3 thread at the time of the final E3 before it finally releases is so sad.
 

Hucast

alt account
Banned
Mar 25, 2019
3,598

3rdman

Member
May 25, 2018
135
Got a response from my Kickstarter message, skimmed the last few pages and didn't see it:
It takes effort to be this bad at PR....were I there, I'd offer every backer a choice.

Either stick with EGS or offer a full refund. If they chose to stay, automatically bump them up one tier for the hassle. So fucking simple...why shit on your own fans???
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,565
It’s just nothing. The game is out in a couple months and it looks blah, with

omao. I backed Shenmue 3 for $1,500 and have spent the last few years trying to stay positive. So far, the game looks bad to middling depending on the trailer. I shouldn’t even say game since they’ve yet to show gameplay. I thought the last trailer was decent, but whatever they showed today just embarrassed me. I don’t need to say all this to defend myself, but I’d like to because I’m really not trying to be shallow or negative. It’s no exaggeration when I say Shenmue 3 is the game I’ve waited for nearly my entire life.
But I'm just trying to figure out what exactly were you expecting?

Cutting edge visuals, like what they accomplished for the time in the DC days?
That simply isn't happening, not on that budget, no matter how much you personally financed (unless it was closer to $40-60 million, which is the average budget of the higher end graphical games). It looks far and away better than anything I expected for the amount of money they raised. I would have taken repurposed DC assets honestly, but this is better than I could have imagined.

Cutting-edge animation and cinematics?
Again, read the above. We're spoiled today because story-based games like Last of Us 2, Horizon and Detroit feed us some of the most emotional digital faces, visuals and acting gaming can offer. But the reality is that there are literally small armies of people that tackle nuance and fidelity of that level for modern gaming. What Shenmue could do before on a blank-check budget simply isn't possible today. What they can muster with mo-cap and keyframe animation today is already a great feat on their current budget. Things like facial animation is likely going in now as some of the final steps.

Epic crazy story sneek-peak?
95% of the day-to-day story segments in Shenmue games are exactly like what that trailer presented. Chit chat with everyday locals, learning from humdrum masters, run-ins with low-key thugs. This is the shit I love about the original games, and that's exactly what they showed us. The epic stuff is there, but that was never the appeal of the series for me. The beauty is in the mundane, sometimes awkward martial arts adventure of Ryo Hazuki in the fight to avenge his dad.

I didn't mean to go on so long to your post but any long time fan of Shenmue should honestly feel relieved that they seemingly didn't skip a beat with the original tone and vibe of the original games and did what they could with modern technology and tools on their shoe string budget. What exactly did you want?
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,445
Honestly disgusted that I backed this game right now. Yu Suzuki is a scam artist who doesn't give a shit about his fans; all he cares about is getting that sweet Epic money.
 

Krejlooc

Indie Game Dev
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
19,204
Got a response from my Kickstarter message, skimmed the last few pages and didn't see it:
what a fucking kick in the face when their kickstarter pitch was all about "this kickstarter will be a real success when fans get the Shenmue III they have always dreamed of" and "the fate of shenmue III is in your hands!"

Now that they got the money? Fuck the fans, right?
 

Lilalaunebaer

Member
Oct 27, 2017
859
User Banned (3 Days): Hostile and inflammatory commentary
Fuck Epic.
Fuck Deep Silver.
Fuck Ys and Yu Suzuki.

Never getting anything from them ever again. Bunch of scam artists. The video game industry would be better off without any of them. Fuck em.
 

Fishsnot

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,424
Japan
If it was made available on all store fronts then fine, as they can have price wars which benefits us the customer, but this.... this is just flat out wrong and forcing people.
I just can't stand shitty exclusivity! Even Valve allow their games to be sold on other storefronts for gods sake.
Seriously how is this good for PC gaming?
I have zero interest in this game now.
Vote with your wallets people! Don't support shady under the table buy outs.
Epic and sellouts Ys can fuck themselves.
 
Last edited:

Ryo Hazuki

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,059
Honestly disgusted that I backed this game right now. Yu Suzuki is a scam artist who doesn't give a shit about his fans; all he cares about is getting that sweet Epic money.
This is honestly ridiculous and the most hyperbolic thing I've read in this thread. I understand being pissed it's not coming to Steam but putting this decision on Yu Suzuki and calling him a "scam artist" is insane and laughable.
 
Oct 30, 2017
1,768
But I'm just trying to figure out what exactly were you expecting?

Cutting edge visuals, like what they accomplished for the time in the DC days?
That simply isn't happening, not on that budget, no matter how much you personally financed (unless it was closer to $40-60 million, which is the average budget of the higher end graphical games). It looks far and away better than anything I expected for the amount of money they raised. I would have taken repurposed DC assets honestly, but this is better than I could have imagined.

Cutting-edge animation and cinematics?
Again, read the above. We're spoiled today because story-based games like Last of Us 2, Horizon and Detroit feed us some of the most emotional digital faces, visuals and acting gaming can offer. But the reality is that there are literally small armies of people that tackle nuance and fidelity of that level for modern gaming. What Shenmue could do before on a blank-check budget simply isn't possible today. What they can muster with mo-cap and keyframe animation today is already a great feat on their current budget. Things like facial animation is likely going in now as some of the final steps.

Epic crazy story sneek-peak?
95% of the day-to-day story segments in Shenmue games are exactly like what that trailer presented. Chit chat with everyday locals, learning from humdrum masters, run-ins with low-key thugs. This is the shit I love about the original games, and that's exactly what they showed us. The epic stuff is there, but that was never the appeal of the series for me. The beauty is in the mundane, sometimes awkward martial arts adventure of Ryo Hazuki in the fight to avenge his dad.

I didn't mean to go on so long to your post but any long time fan of Shenmue should honestly feel relieved that they seemingly didn't skip a beat with the original tone and vibe of the original games and did what they could with modern technology and tools on their shoe string budget. What exactly did you want?
I’m expecting them to show gameplay, for one. The game is a few months away from release. So far they’ve released trailers showcasing really goofy looking NPCs interacting with a poorly animated Ryo, who still doesn’t look quite right, in what looks like one slice of town. It’s taken them four years to even get the game’s main character looking kind of, sort of like the actual character. That’s insane! I know there’s a hands on demo this week, so I’ll keep my negativity down until I start hearing some legitimate impressions.

There’s also this obsession with internet trolls and the media wanting to sabotage Shenmue. While I concede there are a few people out there who are overly critical of this franchise, I find it very hard to believe there’s a concerted effort by the media and thousands of internet trolls to destroy Shenmue 3’s reputation. The fact is the game doesn’t look very good to the average person, and the horribly marketing has added fuel to their fire.

At the end of the day, this whole things been managed very poorly, from the underwhelming Kickstarter marketing to what’s occurring today. It doesn’t make me feel optimistic the actual game will fare much better, but I again hold out hope Yu Suzuki manages a miracle.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.