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Shenmue III is timed exclusive to Epic Games Store, backers PC code redeemed on EGS & no refund (See Threadmark) [READ STAFF POSTS BEFORE POSTING]

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Jakisthe

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,321
We’re way too deep in this topic and this topic has been treaded way too many times for people to come in acting clueless about people’s issue here. If you don’t get it, google it, check reddit or read the thread. No one should have to explain this again.
I’m so glad to finally, *finally* see these disengenuous arguments getting people banned.
 

Ænima

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,209
For all the 'you're still getting a game folks', imagine this:

I tell you that I can cook you a meal for $15

You pay me $20 since you heard my food is delicious

I show you what I can cook

I even ask you what kind of special sauce you want with your food

You choose a steak meal with cheese and sauce.

Then I deliver a hot dog, which wasnt even on the menu.

Sure, I served you a meal. But that's not what I advertised nor what you expected.

You obviously tell me to refund your money.

I tell you nah fam enjoy your hotdog. Then I flip you the bird and kick your cat.
That analogy does not work. Ur analogy make it sound they are not delivering the same game they promissed and they are.
If you want to make a food analogy the correct would be something like: I serve you this food in my restaurant, u can buy now and you can go to my restaurant to eat ur food. Then u get a message saying. Sorry my restaurant is not available anymore but i will cock you the same food in this new restaurant, i know is not as good as my previous restaurant but the food is exactly the same.

I understand why ppl are upset for this change, but ppl is way overreacting. The backers bought the game for PC and it will still come for PC. But its good for them to show they are not happy with this decision. Locking the game behind an exclusive store is bad for everyone except for Epic and maybe Deep Silver that got some extra cash for the deal.

This game should be available in all PC stores and consoles. This game need sales, not bad press and fragmented market.
 

Splader

Member
Feb 12, 2018
1,718

You don't know what a platform is. Steam is literally a platform. It's a set of dependencies you compile against. It's a literal development platform in the most explicit sense. Source: I have been doing development for 25 years now.



Ganes LITERALLY run on steam, just like they "run on windows."

Platform documentation: https://partner.steamgames.com/doc/home

get reading and start learning
Sigh... Okay, I should rephrase. I didn't say Steam isn't a platform. I said it isn't the platform that I was referring to in my original post, which was comparing a game set to release on xbox instead releasing on PlayStation. In this example, the platform is PC.
 

Bowl0l

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,532
I don't see any option for game region? Isn't country and adress enough for them to decide on which region game you get?
That's good enough for Epic/PS4 codes. Please don't ignore idiots like me who backed for a physical copy, living in a different region and has a different region for my PSN account.
 

Andvari

Member
Oct 30, 2017
212
The least they could have done. The absolute fucking least they could have done, is to offer full refunds to anyone who had backed for a Steam copy. The fact that they are unwilling to do even that takes this from screwing over their fans into outright scamming people territory in my mind.

I mean, fuck. I love Shenmue. I was one of the very first backers of III, back when Kickstarter was constantly crashing and showing the wrong total for the pledge amount because of how heavy the traffic was. As recently as 12 hours ago this was one of my most anticipated games of the year. And now I'm not even going to touch it. Suzuki has burned all of his goodwill with me in a single day, after Shenmue III being a dream game of mine for more than a decade.
I agree, Just dumping this decision on people without consultation is disgraceful, It's a massive screw you to the backers which I can not in any way shape or form as a huge Shenmue fan support.

This is going to kill the game and for that we can kiss the series finale good bye.
 

Krejlooc

Indie Game Dev
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
19,235
Sigh... Okay, I should rephrase. I didn't say Steam isn't a platform. I said it isn't the platform that I was referring to in my original post, which was comparing a game set to release on xbox instead releasing on PlayStation. In this example, the platform is PC.
and, again, you don't know what you're talking about. Steam is absolutely a platform in the same way Xbox and Playstation are. The exact same ways, in fact. What makes "Xbox" different from any other x86-64 based PC is specifically the library dependencies they create that games run on. If you think "Xbox" and "playstation" are platforms, Steam is a platform in 100% the same. exact. way.
 

morningbus

Member
Oct 31, 2017
281
Sigh... Okay, I should rephrase. I didn't say Steam isn't a platform. I said it isn't the platform that I was referring to in my original post, which was comparing a game set to release on xbox instead releasing on PlayStation. In this example, the platform is PC.
Try rephrasing again. PC is the hardware.

You're getting this confused because Xbox and PlayStation are both the hardware and the platform.
 

Altera

Member
Nov 1, 2017
1,841
For all the 'you're still getting a game folks', imagine this:

I tell you that I can cook you a meal for $15

You pay me $20 since you heard my food is delicious

I show you what I can cook

I even ask you what kind of special sauce you want with your food

You choose a steak meal with cheese and sauce.

Then I deliver a hot dog, which wasnt even on the menu.

Sure, I served you a meal. But that's not what I advertised nor what you expected.

You obviously tell me to refund your money.

I tell you nah fam enjoy your hotdog. Then I flip you the bird and kick your cat.
Or, to be more accurate you request your food on a paper plate but they give you your food on a styrofoam plate instead. Same food, just on a different holder
 
Oct 27, 2017
13,570
Seattle
Have any of those video game lawyers spoke on this?

If you read the TOS it feels like Project might have violated some of the terms. At the very least it might be worthwhile for small claims
 

ramoisdead

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,687
I've been saying this was going to happen since Epic started this shit. Epic wants to make the biggest noise possible with these moves and what better way than a game fans said they'd do basically anything for?

I would have bought dedicated hardware to play this game but I refuse to support the Epic store after this and, honestly, it makes me suspect of the people making this game.

There were so many ways to do this deal, even if Epic made you an offer you couldn't refuse. They allowed the grossest, worst deal possible for fans.
The 'bus ain't lying here. This just doesn't make me trust any Kickstarters at all from now on.
 

Splader

Member
Feb 12, 2018
1,718
and, again, you don't know what you're talking about. Steam is absolutely a platform in the same way Xbox and Playstation are. The exact same ways, in fact. What makes "Xbox" different from any other x86-64 based PC is specifically the library dependencies they create that games run on. If you think "Xbox" and "playstation" are platforms, Steam is a platform in 100% the same. exact. way.
Okay. So let's say a game is releasing on Xbox. I have it preordered, super excited, ready to go. A few months before launch, the dev/publisher say "Hey, Sony paid us money, we're releasing on PS4 instead!". And they also say that They'll "honor" my pre-order, but only with a PS4 copy, and let's say I don't own a PS4. So in this scenario I'm completely screwed (not by choice either) unless I spend another few hundred on a new console.

Now let's look at this scenario. A game is preordered/kickstarted on Steam, EGS buys it, only releases on EGS. Both of which are platforms, yes, on a larger PC platform. In this scenario they aren't offering me a refund either, or a steam key, but are instead giving me an EGS one. Now while I still can't play the game on my platform (yes, I'll go ahead and use it) of choice, I don't need to spend another few hundred if I wanted to play the game. So while I am screwed, it is by my own choice (let's say I don't agree with Epic's way of doing business, so I don't want to use their launcher).

Those are not the same two scenarios. And in this scenario, PC is the more directly comparable platform to Xbox One and PS4.
 
Oct 30, 2017
1,814
That analogy does not work. Ur analogy make it sound they are not delivering the same game they promissed and they are.
If you want to make a food analogy the correct would be something like: I serve you this food in my restaurant, u can buy now and you can go to my restaurant to eat ur food. Then u get a message saying. Sorry my restaurant is not available anymore but i will cock you the same food in this new restaurant, i know is not as good as my previous restaurant but the food is exactly the same.

I understand why ppl are upset for this change, but ppl is way overreacting. The backers bought the game for PC and it will still come for PC. But its good for them to show they are not happy with this decision. Locking the game behind an exclusive store is bad for everyone except for Epic and maybe Deep Silver that got some extra cash for the deal.

This game should be available in all PC stores and consoles. This game need sales, not bad press and fragmented market.
A lot of people are upset. I am not going to convince them that no, theyre not upset. The team clearly fucked up. Respect people’s right to be be mad. Personally, this is killing me. I wish people weren’t upset, but I get it. I really do.
 

Scrooge McDuck

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
1,626
That analogy does not work. Ur analogy make it sound they are not delivering the same game they promissed and they are.
If you want to make a food analogy the correct would be something like: I serve you this food in my restaurant, u can buy now and you can go to my restaurant to eat ur food. Then u get a message saying. Sorry my restaurant is not available anymore but i will cock you the same food in this new restaurant, i know is not as good as my previous restaurant but the food is exactly the same.
The new restaurant, however, is dirty, has no chair and serves their food on the table instead of on a plate.
 

Krejlooc

Indie Game Dev
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
19,235
Okay. So let's say a game is releasing on Xbox. I have it preordered, super excited, ready to go. A few months before launch, the dev/publisher say "Hey, Sony paid us money, we're releasing on PS4 instead!". And they also say that They'll "honor" my pre-order, but only with a PS4 copy, and let's say I don't own a PS4. So in this scenario I'm completely screwed (not by choice either) unless I spend another few hundred on a new console.

Now let's look at this scenario. A game is preordered/kickstarted on Steam, EGS buys it, only releases on EGS. Both of which are platforms, yes, on a larger PC platform. In this scenario they aren't offering me a refund either, or a steam key, but are instead giving me an EGS one. Now while I still can't play the game on my platform (yes, I'll go ahead and use it) of choice, I don't need to spend another few hundred if I wanted to play the game. So while I am screwed, it is by my own choice (let's say I don't agree with Epic's way of doing business, so I don't want to use their launcher).

Those are not the same two scenarios. And in this scenario, PC is the more directly comparable platform to Xbox One and PS4.
I have a friend who pre ordered Shenmue who has a Linux based gaming PC. 6 days ago, Shenmue could run on his PC. Today, if he wants to play shenmue on his PC, he now needs to shell out $50 for a windows license to play it, entirely because it switched platforms.

THE. EXACT. SAME. WAY.
 

Wanace

Member
Oct 29, 2017
123
Requested a refund on my $500 pledge. I never backed on kickstarter but I did pledge on the fangamer page. Said physical steam disc. I won't be using Epic Game Store and yeah I'll miss out on all the extras but I'm not going to allow them to pull a bait and switch on me.
 

Kurt Russell

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
494
Mar del Plata
Okay. So let's say a game is releasing on Xbox. I have it preordered, super excited, ready to go. A few months before launch, the dev/publisher say "Hey, Sony paid us money, we're releasing on PS4 instead!". And they also say that They'll "honor" my pre-order, but only with a PS4 copy, and let's say I don't own a PS4. So in this scenario I'm completely screwed (not by choice either) unless I spend another few hundred on a new console.

Now let's look at this scenario. A game is preordered/kickstarted on Steam, EGS buys it, only releases on EGS. Both of which are platforms, yes, on a larger PC platform. In this scenario they aren't offering me a refund either, or a steam key, but are instead giving me an EGS one. Now while I still can't play the game on my platform (yes, I'll go ahead and use it) of choice, I don't need to spend another few hundred if I wanted to play the game. So while I am screwed, it is by my own choice (let's say I don't agree with Epic's way of doing business, so I don't want to use their launcher).

Those are not the same two scenarios. And in this scenario, PC is the more directly comparable platform to Xbox One and PS4.
If we are getting technical here, when the game switches from Steam to EGS, Linux users get screwed and can't play unless they install Windows. Then there's the issue of regional availability, though I don't know if it applies here (Control for instance can't be played in China on EGS).
 

Krejlooc

Indie Game Dev
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
19,235
Requested a refund on my $500 pledge. I never backed on kickstarter but I did pledge on the fangamer page. Said physical steam disc. I won't be using Epic Game Store and yeah I'll miss out on all the extras but I'm not going to allow them to pull a bait and switch on me.
between you and I alone, that's $1000 in refund requested over this. Mind boggling how stupid this decision was.
 

Linkark07

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,373
Okay. So let's say a game is releasing on Xbox. I have it preordered, super excited, ready to go. A few months before launch, the dev/publisher say "Hey, Sony paid us money, we're releasing on PS4 instead!". And they also say that They'll "honor" my pre-order, but only with a PS4 copy, and let's say I don't own a PS4. So in this scenario I'm completely screwed (not by choice either) unless I spend another few hundred on a new console.

Now let's look at this scenario. A game is preordered/kickstarted on Steam, EGS buys it, only releases on EGS. Both of which are platforms, yes, on a larger PC platform. In this scenario they aren't offering me a refund either, or a steam key, but are instead giving me an EGS one. Now while I still can't play the game on my platform (yes, I'll go ahead and use it) of choice, I don't need to spend another few hundred if I wanted to play the game. So while I am screwed, it is by my own choice (let's say I don't agree with Epic's way of doing business, so I don't want to use their launcher).

Those are not the same two scenarios. And in this scenario, PC is the more directly comparable platform to Xbox One and PS4.
For all the 'you're still getting a game folks', imagine this:

I tell you that I can cook you a meal for $15

You pay me $20 since you heard my food is delicious

I show you what I can cook

I even ask you what kind of special sauce you want with your food

You choose a steak meal with cheese and sauce.

Then I deliver a hot dog, which wasnt even on the menu.

Sure, I served you a meal. But that's not what I advertised nor what you expected.

You obviously tell me to refund your money.

I tell you nah fam enjoy your hotdog. Then I flip you the bird and kick your cat.
Take your hotdog, because it seems you don't mind losing that steak meal with cheese and sauce. Even though you already paid for it.
 

Resilient

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,335
I have a friend who pre ordered Shenmue who has a Linux based gaming PC. 6 days ago, Shenmue could run on his PC. Today, if he wants to play shenmue on his PC, he now needs to shell out $50 for a windows license to play it, entirely because it switched platforms.

THE. EXACT. SAME. WAY.
yes but you see there are actually 3 types of PC platforms which i didn't say before but you should have assumed; windows PC, Linux PC and Mac PC so your friend is just silly for going with Linux in this case

sorry, just had to get the expected reply in before it dropped.
yes i'm being sarcastic Krejlooc don't hurt me.
 

Splader

Member
Feb 12, 2018
1,718
I have a friend who pre ordered Shenmue who has a Linux based gaming PC. 6 days ago, Shenmue could run on his PC. Today, if he wants to play shenmue on his PC, he now needs to shell out $50 for a windows license to play it, entirely because it switched platforms.

THE. EXACT. SAME. WAY.
I agree 100% that Linux users are getting screwed over, and that's not okay. But that's also a very, very small portion of the people playing the game. That doesn't make it right and I hope EGS eventually (hopefully sooner rather than later) provides Linux support (they have mac support, for example.


If we are getting technical here, when the game switches from Steam to EGS, Linux users get screwed and can't play unless they install Windows. Then there's the issue of regional availability, though I don't know if it applies here (Control for instance can't be played in China on EGS).
I personally tested some of the regional pricing in the EGS, and while they don't have regional currency yet, they do have regional pricing. Hell, Borderlands 3 was I think 20 USD during that recent sale, and 30 or so regularly in Brazil.

Take your hotdog, because it seems you don't mind losing that steak meal with cheese and sauce. Even though you already paid for it.
Are you really using a metaphor when I just typed out the actual situation itself?
 

Krejlooc

Indie Game Dev
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
19,235
I agree 100% that Linux users are getting screwed over, and that's not okay. But that's also a very, very small portion of the people playing the game. That doesn't make it right and I hope EGS eventually (hopefully sooner rather than later) provides Linux support (they have mac support, for example.
I expected nothing beyond a hand wave and you sure lived up to it
 

Wanace

Member
Oct 29, 2017
123
between you and I alone, that's $1000 in refund requested over this. Mind boggling how stupid this decision was.
Sad really. I really want the game and was even going to purchase a copy on PS4 after I got my PC version but now I'll wait for a sale. In the meantime I'll go back to Shenmue 1 and 2 and remember how much fun I had on Dreamcast and XBox when they released.
 

Krejlooc

Indie Game Dev
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
19,235
Sad really. I really want the game and was even going to purchase a copy on PS4 after I got my PC version but now I'll wait for a sale. In the meantime I'll go back to Shenmue 1 and 2 and remember how much fun I had on Dreamcast and XBox when they released.
Same, the exact same. I bought Shenmue I & II 3 times in the last year, once on PC, then the boxed Xbox and PS4 versions. I can't tell you enough how crushed I am ATM.

In an alternate reality version of today, I'd be dropping more money on Shenmue III to pick up the boxed set edition. Instead, I'm willing to write it off and never play it period.
 

Splader

Member
Feb 12, 2018
1,718
I expected nothing beyond a hand wave and you sure lived up to it
What do you want me to say lol, that I'll boycott the epic store until they support Linux? Linux is a great OS, but it's no secret that it's gaming support (while growing and getting better) isn't the best. You gave me an example that affects a very small subset of people, or do you believe that more people would be affected of a game not being able to be played on Linux compared to a game switching from Xbox to PS4 near release?
 

Krejlooc

Indie Game Dev
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
19,235
What do you want me to say lol, that I'll boycott the epic store until they support Linux? Linux is a great OS, but it's no secret that it's gaming support (while growing and getting better) isn't the best. You gave me an example that affects a very small subset of people, or do you believe that more people would be affected of a game not being able to be played on Linux compared to a game switching from Xbox to PS4 near release?
I want you to shut up with this "it's just another launcher" stuff you've been posting for several posts in a row.
 

Ganransu

Member
Nov 21, 2017
1,090
This is a second time(that I know of) when a big name used their name to siphon money from their fans using crowdfunding then went to publishers for more money, doing whatever is necessary, even if it meant going back on promises made to fans.

Big names should either not be allowed to go crowdfunding, or we should stop paying them when they do. The latter is easier.

For all the good games Kickstarter has brought us, these cunts really know how to bring a bad name to the platform.
 

Splader

Member
Feb 12, 2018
1,718
I want you to shut up with this "it's just another launcher" stuff you've been posting for several posts in a row.
I haven't been saying it's just another launcher... Literally in my very first post here I said that it wasn't.
What I'm saying is that people are taking the news a tad too personally, and hell I just had to fight off the absurd notion that going from Steam to EGS is as bad or worse than a game going from Xbox to PS4.
 

SteveWinwood

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,210
USA USA USA
What do you want me to say lol, that I'll boycott the epic store until they support Linux? Linux is a great OS, but it's no secret that it's gaming support (while growing and getting better) isn't the best. You gave me an example that affects a very small subset of people, or do you believe that more people would be affected of a game not being able to be played on Linux compared to a game switching from Xbox to PS4 near release?
have you ever considered that maybe you don't know what you're talking about, you could be wrong, and others know more than you

im genuinely asking if this ever crossed your mind
 

Kurt Russell

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
494
Mar del Plata
I agree 100% that Linux users are getting screwed over, and that's not okay. But that's also a very, very small portion of the people playing the game. That doesn't make it right and I hope EGS eventually (hopefully sooner rather than later) provides Linux support (they have mac support, for example.



I personally tested some of the regional pricing in the EGS, and while they don't have regional currency yet, they do have regional pricing. Hell, Borderlands 3 was I think 20 USD during that recent sale, and 30 or so regularly in Brazil.



Are you really using a metaphor when I just typed out the actual situation itself?
I never said this was about regional pricing. Control is literally not available in China.
 

Linkark07

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,373
What do you mean he sold the steak meal to Tim Sweeny for some of that fortnite money and Tim gave him old tin of hot dogs to keep you happy.
It is the only way to fight Valve's monopoly.

Are you really using a metaphor when I just typed out the actual situation itself?
The situation is easy to read; you want to pretend it is something else. EGS is an inferior product in almost every regard. It doesn't even have a shopping cart. In 2019. Tell me, why people shouldn't be pissed off? Besides the lack of Linux support, EGS doesn't have cloud saving, controller support, Big Screen, forums, and many other stuff. Add to that that Tim Sweeney is a deplorable fucking liar who is always twisting the truth to make it seem EGS is the best option for consumers (which is, guess what, a lie) and that Ys Net refuses to issue refunds.

Tell me, why should I be glad that a product I gave money and expected to be released in a platform with many features is suddenly being released in a platform that is barebones? Inferior in almost everything. Tell me why should I support that move?
 

rickyson33

Member
Nov 23, 2017
709
What do you want me to say lol, that I'll boycott the epic store until they support Linux? Linux is a great OS, but it's no secret that it's gaming support (while growing and getting better) isn't the best. You gave me an example that affects a very small subset of people, or do you believe that more people would be affected of a game not being able to be played on Linux compared to a game switching from Xbox to PS4 near release?
what's the exact percentage of customers where screwing them over goes from "doesn't matter not very many people" to "not okay" in your opinion?
 

m_dorian

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,036
Athens, Greece
I haven't been saying it's just another launcher... Literally in my very first post here I said that it wasn't.
What I'm saying is that people are taking the news a tad too personally, and hell I just had to fight off the absurd notion that going from Steam to EGS is as bad or worse than a game going from Xbox to PS4.
If the backers paid for Steam then it should be Steam or refund for them since they consider the Epic Store worse than Steam for their own reasons.
And this should be respected.
And yes if we compare Steam to EGS it IS worse in almost all aspects.
 

Scuffed

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,417
They double dipped.

They got all the money from the fans to make the game.

Now they take Epics money and tell the fans to deal with it.

Yikes man.
This about sums it up and it's very very ugly. This was a passion project early on and only exists because of early backers. Pretty despicable imo.
 

Krejlooc

Indie Game Dev
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
19,235
The opinion that those upset by this are just a "vocal minority" or whatever is hyper insulting given that this is SHENMUE -- the game that nobody would fund for fucking decades because the fans were supposedly just a vocal minority. So we, the fans, who were told by big outlets for 15 fucking years, that we didn't matter, are now too tiny to satiate with the keys we were fucking promised for 4 years now.

Fuck all this.
 

Ghostwalker

Member
Oct 30, 2017
284
It is the only way to fight Valve's monopoly.
1) You need to look up the word monoply

2) The is not the only way to fight valve, it is in fact of all the ways they could compeate with valve this is one of the worst things the could do.

As a freebe they could fix the launcher so they could control which games get the £10 discount, that way they could start taking pre-orders for cyberpunk 2077, instead it's marked as comming soon while Valve and GoG get all that sweet pre order money.
 
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