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Akumasama

Member
Nov 8, 2017
542
Italy
You know what's funny? Went to try and update my choices in the Fangamer survey, but it still offers you STEAM among the options ahaha.
I mean that's understandable, they didn't have time, yet, to update those options, but it still sounds ironic to me xD

steam.jpg
 

JustJavi

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,116
New Zealand
I still don't get it. It's just a free launcher. Why get so bend out of shape about it? Download the damn launcher and play the game. Big deal.
I must also add that it's quite amusing to basically see gamers complain about what is essentially just capitalism at work. Something they always considered to be absolutely fair.

I get the feeling you gonna get a warning from a mod soon.
 

Spark

Member
Dec 6, 2017
2,540
I still don't get it. It's just a free launcher. Why get so bend out of shape about it? Download the damn launcher and play the game. Big deal.
I must also add that it's quite amusing to basically see gamers complain about what is essentially just capitalism at work. Something they always considered to be absolutely fair.

Read the thread before posting.
 

Iztok

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,138
Not knowing anything substantial about this, my guess is this could actually turn out good for them, depending on how much they got from Epic for this deal.

Because I'm almost certain this game would've had a *very* limited audience anyway, with those who really wanted to get it seeking it out wherever.
 

packy17

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,901
I still don't get it. It's just a free launcher. Why get so bend out of shape about it? Download the damn launcher and play the game. Big deal.
I must also add that it's quite amusing to basically see gamers complain about what is essentially just capitalism at work. Something they always considered to be absolutely fair.

We aren't here to do your research for you. It's incredibly easy to find a collection of legitimate issues people have with EGS.
 

Deleted member 12790

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
24,537
I still don't get it. It's just a free launcher. Why get so bend out of shape about it? Download the damn launcher and play the game. Big deal.
I must also add that it's quite amusing to basically see gamers complain about what is essentially just capitalism at work. Something they always considered to be absolutely fair.

holy strawmen batman

of the many things you're all over the place about in this post, you realize you are talking about people who participated in kickstarter funding, right? That is literally the opposite of capitalism. Kickstarter is THE alternative to traditional venture capitalism. You are completely clueless about the ideological makeup of people who actually kickstart things if you're surprised that they are turned off by excessively greedy capitalism.
 

Chairmanchuck (另一个我)

Teyvat Traveler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,099
China
Not knowing anything substantial about this, my guess is this could actually turn out good for them, depending on how much they got from Epic for this deal.

Because I'm almost certain this game would've had a *very* limited audience anyway, with those who really wanted to get it seeking it out wherever.

It was the biggest gaming Kickstarter ever at the time. I dont really believe the "limited audience" thing.

Besides that. They got support by Sony, it was shown at their conference.

They then got support by backers, making it the biggest gaming kickstarter ever.

Then a publisher jumped in after seeing there is a huge demand for that game there and is financing the game...
 

Iztok

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,138
I still don't get it. It's just a free launcher. Why get so bend out of shape about it? Download the damn launcher and play the game. Big deal.
I must also add that it's quite amusing to basically see gamers complain about what is essentially just capitalism at work. Something they always considered to be absolutely fair.

Gamers always counsidered capitalism to be absolutely fair? What? O.o
 

phonicjoy

Banned
Jun 19, 2018
4,305
You know what's funny? Went to try and update my choices in the Fangamer survey, but it still offers you STEAM among the options ahaha.
I mean that's understandable, they didn't have time, yet, to update those options, but it still sounds ironic to me xD

steam.jpg

Nah thats actually weird. Like someone said above, this seems more and more like a last minute thing.
 

TheUnseenTheUnheard

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
May 25, 2018
9,647
You know what's funny? Went to try and update my choices in the Fangamer survey, but it still offers you STEAM among the options ahaha.
I mean that's understandable, they didn't have time, yet, to update those options, but it still sounds ironic to me xD

steam.jpg
When they do change it, things will only get worse for them. I think they know that.
 

.exe

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,241
I still don't get it. It's just a free launcher. Why get so bend out of shape about it? Download the damn launcher and play the game. Big deal.
I must also add that it's quite amusing to basically see gamers complain about what is essentially just capitalism at work. Something they always considered to be absolutely fair.

Because it's like getting a bootleg PS4 disc in a paper sleeve that launches from the equivalent of a 2001 DVD menu, and your controller may not even work with it.
 

Kazer

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,513
I still don't get it. It's just a free launcher. Why get so bend out of shape about it? Download the damn launcher and play the game. Big deal.
I must also add that it's quite amusing to basically see gamers complain about what is essentially just capitalism at work. Something they always considered to be absolutely fair.
Enjoy your 3 day ban. Come on people, read the fucking thread before posting.

Lol coming to Steam "in the future." They should provide backers with Steam keys NOW in that case if they aren't going to offer refunds.
 

Kyougar

Cute Animal Whisperer
Member
Nov 3, 2017
9,359
Not knowing anything substantial about this, my guess is this could actually turn out good for them, depending on how much they got from Epic for this deal.

Because I'm almost certain this game would've had a *very* limited audience anyway, with those who really wanted to get it seeking it out wherever.

And they will never make another game again.
 

Iztok

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,138
It was the biggest gaming Kickstarter ever at the time. I dont really believe the "limited audience" thing.

Besides that. They got support by Sony, it was shown at their conference.

They then got support by backers, making it the biggest gaming kickstarter ever.

Then a publisher jumped in after seeing there is a huge demand for that game there and is financing the game...

But those people already bought it. They'll claim their game wherever it's released.
Even then, biggest Kickstarter ever doesn't mean anything without a frame of reference - compare that to preorders, for example, and it's not very impressive at all.


Furthermore, the first two games had far bigger budgets (for the time) and still had very limited appeal.
 

Akumasama

Member
Nov 8, 2017
542
Italy
When they do change it, things will only get worse for them. I think they know that.
What I think is that they've been extremely naive. They thought or assumed that nobody would've cared, not this much, and that the only few people being OCD about it would've been a bunch of nerds who would've proved to be inconsequential in the grand scheme of things.

They've probably received, ritghtfully, money (or any other sort of "return" from Epic) to grant them an exclusive on their store and thought they could get away with it just fine, that in a few weeks nobody would've even bothered to remember this.


I mean hey, maybe things will go as they planned, time will tell, I doubt EU laws will allow them to have it their way but (not) glad to be proved wrong here.
 

Akumasama

Member
Nov 8, 2017
542
Italy
I also just noticed that my backer profile (175$ entry) doesn't grant me a physical copy of choice PLUS a digital copy for PC.
It's just one. I have to pick the copy I want, be it physical or digital, PC or PS4.
I originally picked Steam PC digital, but if things keep going this way I guess I'll just change my choice to PS4 and say fuck it.
 

Deleted member 12790

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
24,537
What I think is that they've been extremely naive. They thought or assumed that nobody would've cared, not this much, and that the only few people being OCD about it would've been a bunch of nerds who would've proved to be inconsequential in the grand scheme of things.

They've probably received, ritghtfully, money (or any other sort of "return" from Epic) to grant them an exclusive on their store and thought they could get away with it just fine, that in a few weeks nobody would've even bothered to remember this.


I mean hey, maybe things will go as they planned, time will tell, I doubt EU laws will allow them to have it their way but (not) glad to be proved wrong here.

That'd be really, really dumb of them, because the publisher behind this decision, Deep Silver, has already been through this regarding EGS exclusivity before. They saw the backlash already.

Not that I disagree, though, I guess I'm saying it's more mindbogglingly dumb that they let this happen. Again.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,991
Forum is already busy as hell due to E3, I wonder if the mods are getting exhausted from having to deal with a deluge of "iT's OnLy A lAuNcHeR"
 

Deleted member 3190

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,214
That'd be really, really dumb of them, because the publisher behind this decision, Deep Silver, has already been through this regarding EGS exclusivity before. They saw the backlash already.

Not that I disagree, though, I guess I'm saying it's more mindbogglingly dumb that they let this happen. Again.
Or maybe they didn't see much of negative when it came to sales.
 

FF Seraphim

Member
Oct 26, 2017
13,736
Tokyo
Why would want to you wait it out, don't you feel cheated by this whole facade?

Already aske
That'd be really, really dumb of them, because the publisher behind this decision, Deep Silver, has already been through this regarding EGS exclusivity before. They saw the backlash already.

Not that I disagree, though, I guess I'm saying it's more mindbogglingly dumb that they let this happen. Again.

The backlash plus the fact its releasing in a stacked month. This game is dead to me.
 

olag

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
2,106
My condolenceto everyone who sunk money into this and got swindled. Really, all of this is just solidifying my opinion that Epic and every Publisher and "journalist" involved with them should not be trusted.

Also good to see the modding team take a zero tolerance stance towards the "it's just a launcher" crowd. And yet knowing that, you still have people falling over their swords just to say your opinion doesn't and shouldn't matter ....Oh well, it must be like natural selection at this point.
 

Vyrance

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,224
Florida
I still don't get it. It's just a free launcher. Why get so bend out of shape about it? Download the damn launcher and play the game. Big deal.
I must also add that it's quite amusing to basically see gamers complain about what is essentially just capitalism at work. Something they always considered to be absolutely fair.
You're right, you don't get it.
 

Dandy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,460
If Metro Exodus can honor their Steam preorders after selling out to Epic, then EVERY crowd-funded game that does the same should make that a priority when negotiating with Epic. It's a few thousand copies of the game! Maybe stand up for the people who made your game possible instead of pushing them out of the way to get your next bag of money.

Assholes.
 

LewieP

Member
Oct 26, 2017
18,099
If Metro Exodus can honor their Steam preorders after selling out to Epic, then EVERY crowd-funded game that does the same should make that a priority when negotiating with Epic. It's a few thousand copies of the game! Maybe stand up for the people who made your game possible instead of pushing them out of the way to get your next bag of money.

Assholes.
My guess is that Epic want to avoid that happening, because (to the best of my knowledge) the only way they can do that with how Steam is currently set up would be to make it available to buy on Steam for at least a small window.

I doubt Valve are particularly inclined to bend over backward to help Epic screw over the Steam userbase.
 

newmoneytrash

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,981
Melbourne, Australia
If Metro Exodus can honor their Steam preorders after selling out to Epic, then EVERY crowd-funded game that does the same should make that a priority when negotiating with Epic. It's a few thousand copies of the game! Maybe stand up for the people who made your game possible instead of pushing them out of the way to get your next bag of money.

Assholes.
Yeah, this is what I don't get. They've already sold those keys, why would it matter where they're redeemed?
 

ThreepQuest64

Avenger
Oct 29, 2017
5,735
Germany
The support amount of money we have received from Epic has been excellent.
Fixed it. This is a suckerpunch for all the bakers believing they would get it on the platform of their actual choice.

I appreciate the idea someone earlier advanced that publishers should use the/a PC logo instead and don't advertise any game for any specific platform inside the 'PC ecosystem' anymore. Because it's become fucking pointless by now.
 

Deleted member 5596

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,747
If Metro Exodus can honor their Steam preorders after selling out to Epic, then EVERY crowd-funded game that does the same should make that a priority when negotiating with Epic. It's a few thousand copies of the game! Maybe stand up for the people who made your game possible instead of pushing them out of the way to get your next bag of money.

Assholes.

Probably Epic changed their conditions after what happened to Metro. Because from that point out, this is the norm.
 

CaviarMeths

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
10,655
Western Canada
What a shit show.

It is unfortunate that one of the takeaway narratives here though has become "NEVER back anything on Kickstarter!" because a few high profile failures outweigh the hundreds of successfully backed and released games.
 

.exe

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,241
Yeah, this is what I don't get. They've already sold those keys, why would it matter where they're redeemed?

Because not only does this game have an established fanbase, they have a fanbase that has already paid for their copy of the game and is expected (naively) to play the game wherever the developer dictates they will. In the case of other (timed) exclusives, buyers have the option of waiting or not interacting with Epic's ecosystem at all. For Shenmue III's backers, they are already locked in. Epic is buying users of its platform in the most literal sense. That's the value Epic sees in this acquisition.
 

Deleted member 12790

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
24,537
I would say Epic really fucked up here, then, because they clearly have no idea how vocal the shenmue fanbase is, and such a loud fanbase will surely shine a light on how shitty their behavior regarding paying to exclude stores from being able to participate in the market really is.

The more I think about the situation, the more pissed I get. For a decade and half, no publisher would put their money where their mouth is and fund this fucking game, because we were always told the fanbase was too insignificant. So after a decade and a half of hearing that shit, that fanbase actually funds the game themselves and becomes the biggest gaming kickstarter campaign ever in the process. And only then, once it became apparent that this was a fanbase willing to open it's pocket books, is it that a publisher like Epic Games covets our sales. So, they finally open their wallets, after nearly 20 fucking years, and it's done specifically to deny us backers what we fucking want.

What a giant fuck you. And shame on deep silver and Ys.Net for not thinking about this too.
 

Pillock

User Requested Ban
Banned
Dec 29, 2017
1,341
Maybe the dev costs got to the point where the cash injection from Epic was need.

Either way sucks for the fans.
 

Dr. Ludwig

Member
Oct 31, 2017
2,521
I won't be surprised if this deal was slapped around at the last minute at E3.

Their PR and clarity is a shitshow.
 

Tzarscream

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
2,945
So after a decade and a half of hearing that shit, that fanbase actually funds the game themselves and becomes the biggest gaming kickstarter campaign ever in the process.

That's not entirely true though is it, $6 million seems like a lot but to make a game you can burn through that in a year. I mean yeah, 6million helped it get off the ground but they need more funding than that.
 

Deleted member 12790

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
24,537
Yeah, this is what I don't get. They've already sold those keys, why would it matter where they're redeemed?

One of the very few rules Valve has about using the steamworks SDK is that the game (or some component like DLC in the case of f2p games) must be for sale on steam, the store. It can be sold literally anywhere else too, but it has to also be available on steam. In other words, you can't expect them to host your game for free and you not let them sell your game on their store. If Epic is letting users just redeem a few already sold steam keys, that's against Steam's license. That'd be like Epic forcing Valve to host a product they can't sell for users they got no money from.

All this is a very good reason why they shouldn't be making deals to exclude games already being sold on such a platform from being released on said platform. It feels wrong and scummy because it is, and there are obvious flaws with how this works logistically because this type of shit was never supposed to happen. This is like a flaw in the system, an enormously big entity using it's money to force suppliers to avoid a competitor. That shit should honestly be illegal.
 

Deleted member 12790

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
24,537
That's not entirely true though is it, $6 million seems like a lot but to make a game you can burn through that in a year. I mean yeah, 6million helped it get off the ground but they need more funding than that.

Whatever funding they received afterwards, they would have never gotten without that initial kickstarter in the first place. The industry told fans to put their money where their mouths were, and fans did.
 

Fishsnot

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,967
Japan
0Wk0kLT.png


Well I hope that "Holding Strong" was worth DS and Ys Net losing their customer base over.
And you are doing all Tim is doing is hurting the industry establishing your own walled in garden, and refusing creators to release their games on other storefronts.
Eyes closed, fingers in ears and living in denial.
 

Muad'dib

Banned
Jun 7, 2018
1,253
0Wk0kLT.png


Well I hope that "Holding Strong" was worth DS and Ys Net losing their customer base over.
And you are doing all Tim is doing is hurting the industry establishing your own walled in garden, and refusing creators to release their games on other storefronts.
Eyes closed, fingers in ears and living in denial.

Slightly off topic, he looks like he had some work done to his face, botox or lifting.

On topic, fuck him.
 

Akumasama

Member
Nov 8, 2017
542
Italy
Not that I disagree, though, I guess I'm saying it's more mindbogglingly dumb that they let this happen. Again.
Being in a (privileged) position of "power" and being unfit for it, often make you do really dumb decision, underestimating the consequences.
I think this is one of those situations and I think Deep Silver will have to "pay" for it.

Do I care for Deep Silver? I couldn't care less.
I do care though that my beloved Shenmue 3 will have to pay the consequences for their dull choices though.
 

Deleted member 12790

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
24,537
People saying maybe cash ran out - just 1 week ago, they sent out updated backer material advertising the steam version of the game. This deal is obviously very, very recent.

Yu Suzuki admitted the game was largely done and was merely in polishing stages a long while back:

By Julien Hubert - published onMarch 13, 2019 at 12:00

On the occasion of MAGIC 2019, organized in Monaco by Shibuya Productions, we were able to meet Shenmue III director Yu Suzuki again very recently , and to ask him questions, just a few months from now. Thu.



Yu Suzuki
YS Net
Director
of Shenmue III
GAMEBLOG: There are only a few short months left before the release of Shenmue III, what kind of work do you have left to do?

YU SUZUKI: Our job now is basically tuning, debugging, and upgrading.

The game itself is totally finished?

Yes. After that there are still things like the location of the game, or the adjustments with the platforms of Steam and Sony.


Was everything you originally wanted to integrate into Shenmue III , or are there things you did not have time to add?

No, I could not put everything. You know, in all the games I've done so far, I've never been able to put everything I originally wanted ... There were even some games in which I could not to put only half of what I wanted to integrate!

And there, would you say that you have been able to return to Shenmue III only half of what you wanted?

Maybe ... But, originally, my ambitions for Shenmue III were more modest because aligned with the stretch goals of our Kickstarter campaign.

They didn't run out of money, don't invent headcanon.
 

Akumasama

Member
Nov 8, 2017
542
Italy
Forum is already busy as hell due to E3, I wonder if the mods are getting exhausted from having to deal with a deluge of "iT's OnLy A lAuNcHeR"
As others have pointed out, I think this is more an ideological / legal issue, more than a practical one.
We can all have our own preferences between using Steam, Epic, both or neither of those clients.
In the end I'm also sure we can all agree it's not that much of a big deal.

The real problem, as I see it at least, lies not in the pratical consequences of this choice, but in the fact people have been buying thing X and they've been forced to take thing Y (wether or not they're very similar is an entirely different story, they're NOT the same, period) by a company last minute, with an announcement that sounds extremely arrogant and this doesn't certainly help people to "accept" it.


It's not the first time things change w.i.p. on a kickstarter campaign and it won't be the last, but offering no refund option is clearly quite silly of them and they will have to pay, again, a big cost in terms of reputation.
 
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