Shenmue III is timed exclusive to Epic Games Store, backers PC code redeemed on EGS & no refund (See Threadmark) [READ STAFF POSTS BEFORE POSTING]

Status
Not open for further replies.

Bowl0l

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,171
It's not shilling so much as it is being pragmatic about the matter. If someone has already bought the game for some extravagant amount, (s)he might as well play it. Refusing to use the product doesn't really burn Epic or Deep Silver.
It's not about the money. It's all about sending a message. Backing the KS was my message that I want Shenmue III. Somehow, Ys Net translate that as backers are fools that can be sold to Epic for cash.

They need the message, I think.
 

Resilient

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,079
Please do not do this. As a backer of $500 tier, I can tell you that this is corporate shilling to the highest degree and I am deeply insulted you have reduced us to go by the way of mindless consumers when we - yes - the Shenmue fans are able to look at the bigger picture in the gaming industry. It as amazing how people can lack general compassion to users without even looking at the context of the situation.

By posting this statement, you have advocated for all the worse aspects of gaming fanboyism that has spread throughout the PS3/360 era. You have championed predatory corporatism that is will screw us backers who are already anxious of a game that may or may not be able to release based on recent Kickstarter failures. To add more fuel to this fire, it is almost as if you inherently enjoy seeing passionate gamers who want the to play their hobby in the best possible condition to the point of forking over cash that could buy you an XBoneX - only to have a legal loophole to bypass our goodwill and strong-arm us into playing it in a condition so far from an already excellent platform for YEARS!

How people enjoy seeing regressive aspects in the game industry boggles me. I bought a PC to enjoy multiplats and play them in the best scenario, so why should I be denied playing Shenmue 3 on Steam - a platform that can allow even an old game like Thief the benefit of a controller support (A PS4 one mind you) without experimenting with a lot of 3rd party technologies that may or may not have some questionable malware involved? I did NOT choose the PS4 version for this particular reason. Any bugs, enhancements and accessibility are far more addressable in the PC then a closed box like a console and Steam culminates all this in one platform.

So the idea that you want us to "enjoy" the game, knowing FULL the PS4 version is the best option at this point to begin just reeks of deceit and gas-lighting. This is the crux "of just another launcher" is: It's about bending to the status quo as long as the "games" are released and be thankful that we are even getting the privilege of playing it. Disgusting!

People like you need take a step back and really, really have some perspective:

- It started as a Kickstarter based on the principle that the PS4 version would be supported by Sony.

- The backers were given a chance to place their money-in-their-mouth for a series known to have high development ambitions. A faith of a magnitude expectation was set to wonder if the game would even be released.

- They were given a choice: PS4 or the PC version. The option later down the line was given for that platform: Steam.

- Deep Silver steps in and gave a false impression that the game is in good hands.

- To the hope of fans - and to the determent of detractors - the game was expected to be released on August 2019.

- Nearing the end of the development - the game was mysteriously delayed to November 2019. An expected development considering multiple games does this.

but then...

- we were to discover at E3 of all fucking places that the game would be exclusive to EGS!

- Deep Silver published a tone-deaf statement of how it is "best" played on EGS despite not letting us backers any say on the matter - nor explaining why that would be the case.

So in essence: The BULK of the development was under the backers (according to public records) and should have the BIGGEST say on the matter, is now under the mercy at some arbitration using OUR FUNDING as a negotiating end? How in the bloody world is this even fucking legal? I can only imagine the doors kickstarter funding can safeguard predatory tactics if this was even allowed for the largest funded kickstarter.

We MUST have the option to get OUR refend if Deep Silver is making up for the difference then it is agreed that kickstarter money was never needed in the first place on TOP of the EGS benefits they provide.

GOD DAMN I'M SO PISSED OFF WRITING THIS!
Trying to go to sleep and then I read this. What the actual fuck! Now I’m just as pissed as you. Fucking deep silver maggots. Fuck this whole situation. I backed the $300 tier and I’m so fucking conflicted. This is a great post though.
 

Maxim726x

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
3,487
You are missing the point.
We don't want the product in this format. We want the money back.
You have every right to.

This is fucking bullshit, and further proves that Kickstarter is just a way to crowdfund money... They don't have to deliver on *any* of the promises they make when they're starting a campaign.

That needs to change moving forward, or I will not participate in any Kickstarter campaigns moving forward.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,734
Brooklyn, NY
WRONG

many discovery lists on steam are automatically populated using machine learning. They literally don't have to be discovered or get big at all to enter those lists. Case in point, my front page of steam is pretty consistently full of completely unknown VR games, because I've made it known to Steam that I actively hunt for and play VR games, and they have learned to suggest them to me even if they're not popular with other people. That's because I've literally trained Steam on my interests, that's what actually a major component of Steam's discovery system.

Jim Sterling literally trained his discovery queue to purposefully show him awful asset flips, because he keeps going out and buying them and looking for them. They're serving him what his behavior demonstrates he is looking for.
not here to defend EGS, but fwiw, this does not even remotely align with my experience. my discovery queue is consistently full of awful-looking shovelware and games with tags I told it to ignore
 

Chudah

Member
Apr 23, 2019
73
I'm just going to say the reason for wanting a refund SHOULD NOT MATTER. If something has not been released yet, and a customer requests a refund, they should be given a refund. If you go to a store and purchase something, realize it's not what you expected, and take it back for a refund, the store would not deny you that refund, especially if the item hasn't been opened. Why is it any different here?
 

Subutai

Member
Oct 25, 2017
459
Please do not do this. As a backer of $500 tier, I can tell you that this is corporate shilling to the highest degree and I am deeply insulted you have reduced us to go by the way of mindless consumers when we - yes - the Shenmue fans are able to look at the bigger picture in the gaming industry. It as amazing how people can lack general compassion to users without even looking at the context of the situation.

By posting this statement, you have advocated for all the worse aspects of gaming fanboyism that has spread throughout the PS3/360 era. You have championed predatory corporatism that is will screw us backers who are already anxious of a game that may or may not be able to release based on recent Kickstarter failures. To add more fuel to this fire, it is almost as if you inherently enjoy seeing passionate gamers who want the to play their hobby in the best possible condition to the point of forking over cash that could buy you an XBoneX - only to have a legal loophole to bypass our goodwill and strong-arm us into playing it in a condition so far from an already excellent platform for YEARS!

How people enjoy seeing regressive aspects in the game industry boggles me. I bought a PC to enjoy multiplats and play them in the best scenario, so why should I be denied playing Shenmue 3 on Steam - a platform that can allow even an old game like Thief the benefit of a controller support (A PS4 one mind you) without experimenting with a lot of 3rd party technologies that may or may not have some questionable malware involved? I did NOT choose the PS4 version for this particular reason. Any bugs, enhancements and accessibility are far more addressable in the PC then a closed box like a console and Steam culminates all this in one platform.

So the idea that you want us to "enjoy" the game, knowing FULL the PS4 version is the best option at this point to begin just reeks of deceit and gas-lighting. This is the crux "of just another launcher" is: It's about bending to the status quo as long as the "games" are released and be thankful that we are even getting the privilege of playing it. Disgusting!

People like you need take a step back and really, really have some perspective:

- It started as a Kickstarter based on the principle that the PS4 version would be supported by Sony.

- The backers were given a chance to place their money-in-their-mouth for a series known to have high development ambitions. A faith of a magnitude expectation was set to wonder if the game would even be released.

- They were given a choice: PS4 or the PC version. The option later down the line was given for that platform: Steam.

- Deep Silver steps in and gave a false impression that the game is in good hands.

- To the hope of fans - and to the determent of detractors - the game was expected to be released on August 2019.

- Nearing the end of the development - the game was mysteriously delayed to November 2019. An expected development considering multiple games does this.

but then...

- we were to discover at E3 of all fucking places that the game would be exclusive to EGS!

- Deep Silver published a tone-deaf statement of how it is "best" played on EGS despite not letting us backers any say on the matter - nor explaining why that would be the case.

So in essence: The BULK of the development was under the backers (according to public records) and should have the BIGGEST say on the matter, is now under the mercy at some arbitration using OUR FUNDING as a negotiating end? How in the bloody world is this even fucking legal? I can only imagine the doors kickstarter funding can safeguard predatory tactics if this was even allowed for the largest funded kickstarter.

We MUST have the option to get OUR refend if Deep Silver is making up for the difference then it is agreed that kickstarter money was never needed in the first place on TOP of the EGS benefits they provide.

GOD DAMN I'M SO PISSED OFF WRITING THIS!
I love this post. It's good for many things, not just Shenmue related.
 

Kanik

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,161
Please do not do this. As a backer of $500 tier, I can tell you that this is corporate shilling to the highest degree and I am deeply insulted you have reduced us to go by the way of mindless consumers when we - yes - the Shenmue fans are able to look at the bigger picture in the gaming industry. It as amazing how people can lack general compassion to users without even looking at the context of the situation.

By posting this statement, you have advocated for all the worse aspects of gaming fanboyism that has spread throughout the PS3/360 era. You have championed predatory corporatism that is will screw us backers who are already anxious of a game that may or may not be able to release based on recent Kickstarter failures. To add more fuel to this fire, it is almost as if you inherently enjoy seeing passionate gamers who want the to play their hobby in the best possible condition to the point of forking over cash that could buy you an XBoneX - only to have a legal loophole to bypass our goodwill and strong-arm us into playing it in a condition so far from an already excellent platform for YEARS!

How people enjoy seeing regressive aspects in the game industry boggles me. I bought a PC to enjoy multiplats and play them in the best scenario, so why should I be denied playing Shenmue 3 on Steam - a platform that can allow even an old game like Thief the benefit of a controller support (A PS4 one mind you) without experimenting with a lot of 3rd party technologies that may or may not have some questionable malware involved? I did NOT choose the PS4 version for this particular reason. Any bugs, enhancements and accessibility are far more addressable in the PC then a closed box like a console and Steam culminates all this in one platform.

So the idea that you want us to "enjoy" the game, knowing FULL the PS4 version is the best option at this point to begin just reeks of deceit and gas-lighting. This is the crux "of just another launcher" is: It's about bending to the status quo as long as the "games" are released and be thankful that we are even getting the privilege of playing it. Disgusting!

People like you need take a step back and really, really have some perspective:

- It started as a Kickstarter based on the principle that the PS4 version would be supported by Sony.

- The backers were given a chance to place their money-in-their-mouth for a series known to have high development ambitions. A faith of a magnitude expectation was set to wonder if the game would even be released.

- They were given a choice: PS4 or the PC version. The option later down the line was given for that platform: Steam.

- Deep Silver steps in and gave a false impression that the game is in good hands.

- To the hope of fans - and to the determent of detractors - the game was expected to be released on August 2019.

- Nearing the end of the development - the game was mysteriously delayed to November 2019. An expected development considering multiple games does this.

but then...

- we were to discover at E3 of all fucking places that the game would be exclusive to EGS!

- Deep Silver published a tone-deaf statement of how it is "best" played on EGS despite not letting us backers any say on the matter - nor explaining why that would be the case.

So in essence: The BULK of the development was under the backers (according to public records) and should have the BIGGEST say on the matter, is now under the mercy at some arbitration using OUR FUNDING as a negotiating end? How in the bloody world is this even fucking legal? I can only imagine the doors kickstarter funding can safeguard predatory tactics if this was even allowed for the largest funded kickstarter.

We MUST have the option to get OUR refend if Deep Silver is making up for the difference then it is agreed that kickstarter money was never needed in the first place on TOP of the EGS benefits they provide.

GOD DAMN I'M SO PISSED OFF WRITING THIS!
This post best sums up how backers feel and should be plastered somewhere.

Surprised no news outlets have done a story on this yet.
 

Reticon6

Member
Oct 19, 2018
141
10,000m under surface level
It's not shilling so much as it is being pragmatic about the matter. If someone has already bought the game for some extravagant amount, (s)he might as well play it. Refusing to use the product doesn't really burn Epic or Deep Silver.
So, you decided to press the replay button on your messaging, hand-waving the bigger issue here which is basic consumer rights: Get what we have payed for or have our fund refunded. PERIOD.

This isn't about burning Epic or Deep Silver, clearly the backers were fucked - left, right and sideways. It's exposed a grand flaw with Kickstarter as they can no longer hold developers accountable as LONG as they are merging with another company who doesn't have to adhere to the kickstarter policies. That. is. fucked. up. And it's a shame you don't see that.

-Edited the first paragraph for the refund statement.
 

Omegasquash

Member
Oct 31, 2017
2,461
That needs to change moving forward, or I will not participate in any Kickstarter campaigns moving forward.
Last things I backed was the Turrican album and Blasphemous. Mighty No. 9 killed by interest, and while it's unfortunate that I've passed on lots of other projects that pique my interest, it's better peace of mind, and far less a test of patience. I'm looking at you, Ghost Song.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,734
Brooklyn, NY
show me this shovelware
a few examples from my last couple queues

 

Sixfortyfive

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,698
I'm just going to say the reason for wanting a refund SHOULD NOT MATTER. If something has not been released yet, and a customer requests a refund, they should be given a refund. If you go to a store and purchase something, realize it's not what you expected, and take it back for a refund, the store would not deny you that refund, especially if the item hasn't been opened. Why is it any different here?
Because "a Kickstarter pledge is not a pre-order," apparently.

It's one of those arguments that is perhaps technically and legally correct, but considering that the backer rewards are the #1 incentive to the backers for their pledge in the first place, it sort of undercuts the entire premise and trust of the platform.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,351
Florida.
I'm just going to say the reason for wanting a refund SHOULD NOT MATTER. If something has not been released yet, and a customer requests a refund, they should be given a refund. If you go to a store and purchase something, realize it's not what you expected, and take it back for a refund, the store would not deny you that refund, especially if the item hasn't been opened. Why is it any different here?
Because your money is considered a donation not a preorder
 

Krejlooc

Dreamcast Porno Party
Member
Oct 27, 2017
15,506
a few examples from my last couple queues

Aside from the one metroidvania title which is not out yet, all the others have a majority of positive reviews. This is not shovelware.
 

Demacabre

Member
Nov 20, 2017
1,784
Because "a Kickstarter pledge is not a pre-order," apparently.

It's one of those arguments that is perhaps technically and legally correct, but considering that the backer rewards are the #1 incentive to the backers for their pledge in the first place, it sort of undercuts the entire premise and trust of the platform.
I agree

I said it before, if your entire argument is predicated on "reading the fine print" (meaning a technicality or a specific definition) to defend a practice, that practice is fucking shit. Again, defense of the epic game store and its deals has brought out some of the worst and sleaziest shit that effects consumers. People consistently defending EGS, what are you actually defending? Is it all rooted in more generous split? Is it worth all this other bullshit?
 
Last edited:

Chudah

Member
Apr 23, 2019
73
Because your money is considered a donation not a preorder
Well, my "donation" money has run out. And I'm sure many others have as well. If this ultimately means the end of crowdfunded videogames, then so be it. The only party to blame in all of this is the developers themselves for taking advantage of the very supporters that allowed them to create their games in the first place.
 
Oct 30, 2017
1,220
Well, my "donation" money has run out. And I'm sure many others have as well. If this ultimately means the end of crowdfunded videogames, then so be it. And the only party to blame in all of this is the developers themselves for taking advantage of the very supporters that allowed them to create their games in the first place.
I doubt any of us know the inner workings of this deal and I acknowledge Ys Net said they made this decision with Deep Silver, but isn't it ultimately on the publisher to secure distribution, etc? I just have trouble believing Ys Net had much influence on this decision and I have trouble bl aming them for it. If the publisher wants to secure an exclusive deal with Amazon to solely distribute the game that way, is it the developer's fault? It seems like the root of the issue is Ys Net secured a publisher for a crowdfunded game. Once the publisher stepped in, they lost control.
 

Dusk Golem

Local Horror Enthusiast
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
3,142
a few examples from my last couple queues

Blind Boris, the first one you listed, is 100% not shovelware. It's a game by Marginal act, who is in my opinion one of the most underlooked creative devs in the industry. He's makes avant-garde surreal games with a mixture of unusual gameplay design and focus on interesting premises. My favorite game of his I've played is The Line, a game where you stand in Line in a queue and it turns into a weird management RPG survival game where you have to try and move up in position in line, barter and discuss with those ahead and behind you in some exchange market for position and items, scourge through scenery you're passing by on occasion, go into RPG battles to try and force just a position forward in line with a queue, and has multiple endings with choices.

Because that was your opening example as shovelware form your queue, I'm not sure I should believe the rest. Don't judge a book by its cover.
 

Krejlooc

Dreamcast Porno Party
Member
Oct 27, 2017
15,506
Just to add, ironically, the example of "shovelware" posted above -- that game Blind Boris, I had never heard of it before, and I just bought it because it sounds interesting and the reviews posted on the steam page are good.
 

LewieP

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,968
I doubt any of us know the inner workings of this deal and I acknowledge Ys Net said they made this decision with Deep Silver, but isn't it ultimately on the publisher to secure distribution, etc? I just have trouble believing Ys Net had much influence on this decision and I have trouble blaming them for it.
Ys Net is entirely responsible for the kickstarter that they ran.

If they signed away control of aspects of the game to a publisher in exchange for some kind of publishing deal, the consequences of that deal is on Ys Net. Especially if they did not negotiate in the contract that "doing right by KS backers is a priority".

Edit: Ys Net even said that this decision was made after much discussion. Why were backers (the people who took a chance on this game in the first place) not involved in those discussions at any stage?
 

Chudah

Member
Apr 23, 2019
73
I doubt any of us know the inner workings of this deal and I acknowledge Ys Net said they made this decision with Deep Silver, but isn't it ultimately on the publisher to secure distribution, etc? I just have trouble believing Ys Net had much influence on this decision and I have trouble blaming them for it.
Why am I supposed to be more concerned about a business's interest instead of my own? Yu Suzuki runs a business. That business made dealings that ended up being detrimental to my personal interests and principals. I'm not going to just let that slide because Yu Suzuki is a nice guy.
 

Krejlooc

Dreamcast Porno Party
Member
Oct 27, 2017
15,506
Blind Boris, the first one you listed, is 100% not shovelware. It's a game by Marginal act, who is in my opinion one of the most underlooked creative devs in the industry. He's makes avant-garde surreal games with a mixture of unusual gameplay design and focus on interesting premises. My favorite game of his I've played is The Line, a game where you stand in Line in a queue and it turns into a weird management RPG survival game where you have to try and move up in position in line, barter and discuss with those ahead and behind you in some exchange market for position and items, scourge through scenery you're passing by on occasion, go into RPG battles to try and force just a position forward in line with a queue, and has multiple endings with choices.

Because that was your opening example as shovelware form your queue, I'm not sure I should believe the rest. Don't judge a book by its cover.
Gotta admit, that little video on the steam page and reading the reviews sold me on the game. The reviews are like "it's a little janky, but memorable" and what I saw looked right up my alley.

This is the problem when you see people bitching about steam being full of "shovelware." Lots of people complain about "shovelware" on steam and everyone thinks they're talking about the same obvious titles, when in fact taste is subjective and everyone is secretly talking about different games. This is why trying to weed out the "shovelware" is bad, because you will, every single time, be removing a game that somewhere, someone actually likes.
 
Oct 30, 2017
1,220
Why am I supposed to be more concerned about a business's interest instead of my own? Yu Suzuki runs a business. That business made dealings that ended up being detrimental to my personal interests and principals. I'm not going to just let that slide because Yu Suzuki is a nice guy.
I have no idea if he's a nice guy. Never met him. Has he publicly commented on this debacle? Would Deep Silver or Epic allow a developer to comment on distribution?
 

Thekeats

Member
Nov 1, 2017
386
This is the problem when you see people bitching about steam being full of "shovelware." Lots of people complain about "shovelware" on steam and everyone thinks they're talking about the same obvious titles, when in fact taste is subjective and everyone is secretly talking about different games. This is why trying to weed out the "shovelware" is bad, because you will, every single time, be removing a game that somewhere, someone actually likes.
I have seen people claiming Anime games to be shovelware on steam. Which as a catchall description means they include Steins Gate, Danganronpora, the nonorary trikogy, chrono trigger and countless others.
 

fantomena

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
9,466
Norway.
He posted them above

I just bought one of the games he was calling shovelware because it looks awesome to me
I put Lost Tales on my wishlist. Looks like my kind of 2D platformer.

What some people doesn't seem to understand is that what one person might consider a trash game or shovelware, might be another person's joy.

I own a lot of the games in the style of Lost Tales. It might looks like trash or shovelware to some, but I really like them.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,734
Brooklyn, NY
Blind Boris, the first one you listed, is 100% not shovelware. It's a game by Marginal act, who is in my opinion one of the most underlooked creative devs in the industry. He's makes avant-garde surreal games with a mixture of unusual gameplay design and focus on interesting premises. My favorite game of his I've played is The Line, a game where you stand in Line in a queue and it turns into a weird management RPG survival game where you have to try and move up in position in line, barter and discuss with those ahead and behind you in some exchange market for position and items, scourge through scenery you're passing by on occasion, go into RPG battles to try and force just a position forward in line with a queue, and has multiple endings with choices.

Because that was your opening example as shovelware form your queue, I'm not sure I should believe the rest. Don't judge a book by its cover.
fair enough with respect to that particular game. I stand by what I said about my overall experience with the Discovery Queue, though; I feel comfortable saying that a Vladimir Putin runner game and a visual novel in entirely broken English are shovelware even if they have a couple positive reviews
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,351
Florida.
Just to add, ironically, the example of "shovelware" posted above -- that game Blind Boris, I had never heard of it before, and I just bought it because it sounds interesting and the reviews posted on the steam page are good.
It's hilarious how people complain about indie visibility on steam, while calling anything that isn't the latest Devolver release "shovelware".
 

Krejlooc

Dreamcast Porno Party
Member
Oct 27, 2017
15,506
I have seen people claiming Anime games to be shovelware on steam. Which as a catchall description means they include Steins Gate, Danganronpora, the nonorary trikogy, chrono trigger and countless others.
I mean, I knew what was coming when the dude said his queue was full of shovel ware. I've seen plenty of people on this very board (and neogaf before) claim that all indie games were shovelware. There are tons of people who treat indie games like a monolithic genre.
 

Krejlooc

Dreamcast Porno Party
Member
Oct 27, 2017
15,506
fair enough with respect to that particular game. I stand by what I said about my overall experience with the Discovery Queue, though; I feel comfortable saying that a Vladimir Putin runner game and a visual novel in entirely broken English are shovelware even if they have a couple positive reviews
what makes your opinion on them being shovelware any more accurate than those who played and reviewed the games and liked them? Ignoring that you're judging a game you haven't even played, mind you.

Regarding the Lost Tales game you posted, the art style is a little simple but the gameplay of that looks good, and i've put it on my wishlist to keep an eye on it. I think that looks fun.
 

Sixfortyfive

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,698
I mean, I knew what was coming when the dude said his queue was full of shovel ware. I've seen plenty of people on this very board (and neogaf before) claim that all indie games were shovelware. There are tons of people who treat indie games like a monolithic genre.
And it's an inherently contradictory argument when it's presented as a knock on the "lack of visibility" for indie games.
 

Chudah

Member
Apr 23, 2019
73
I have no idea if he's a nice guy. Never met him. Has he publicly commented on this debacle? Would Deep Silver or Epic allow a developer to comment on distribution?
Up until this point, no, he hasn't. I would not be surprised if he's now under NDA due to the exclusivity agreement. I mean, it's possible he didn't realize what he was getting into, and he may not even have been in a position to prevent all of this from happening. I do have sympathy for the man if that is indeed the case. But that would not change my anger over getting screwed in this situation. What's done is done, and I'm now adding Ys Net and Deep Silver to the growing list of publishers/developers I refuse to patronize in the future.
 

Thekeats

Member
Nov 1, 2017
386
I mean, I knew what was coming when the dude said his queue was full of shovel ware. I've seen plenty of people on this very board (and neogaf before) claim that all indie games were shovelware. There are tons of people who treat indie games like a monolithic genre.
The term shovelware has become broken in itself. It seems to now mean any game that looks terrible or i don't like.

Will be interesting to see where Dwarf Fortress will lie in some peoples minds.
 

eonden

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,183
My experience with Discovery Queues is getting on average 2 added games to my Wishlist and maybe every once in a while a Hentai Puzzle / Asset Flip (it was worse 4 months ago when you got 1 every DQ).
Discovery Queues are not always supposed to be full of games that fit your taste the best (even less when you use them regularly and the "highest recommendations" are already seen), not even Spotify lists recommendations do that (they always have a dud you skip).

This conversation also is quite offtopic.
 

Krejlooc

Dreamcast Porno Party
Member
Oct 27, 2017
15,506
I put Lost Tales on my wishlist. Looks like my kind of 2D platformer.

What some people doesn't seem to understand is that what one person might consider a trash game or shovelware, might be another person's joy.

I own a lot of the games in the style of Lost Tales. It might looks like trash or shovelware to some, but I really like them.
If we're being real here, calling this stuff shovelware is incredibly insulting to those who made them. Even "ugly" looking games take a LOT of work to make.
 

fantomena

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
9,466
Norway.
The term shovelware has become broken in itself. It seems to now mean any game that looks terrible or i don't like.

Will be interesting to see where Dwarf Fortress will lie in some peoples minds.
Dwarf Fortress will definetly be called a trash game or shovelware.

Despite it looking like this:



Or this:



The game has an insane depth and complexity to it that few other games have, imo.
 

Dusk Golem

Local Horror Enthusiast
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
3,142
He posted them above

I just bought one of the games he was calling shovelware because it looks awesome to me
It sounds like you've already been sold, but I'll link the two articles that got me interested in Marginal Act's games, and highlights what's special about them:

https://surrealandcreepy.wordpress.com/2018/03/18/blind-boris-surviving-the-horrors-of-a-hospice/

As a person with a love for the underground indie scene and experimental games, it can be hard to convince people most indie games are actually serious efforts, games that end up flawed or even bad aren't the problem, and shovelware is actually more often than not a term that's broad use is often applied to game from the underground indie scene by surface level judgements rather than actual games spit out by using unaltered and barely reiterated games with little care of its quality.

Though this is getting a bit off the topic of hand, so we should probably reel it back into discussing Shenmue 3, as there's much to say in this case as it's kinda' uncharted territory with the current conflict in the PC Gaming scene. It would be interesting if someone felt like whipping up a topic on this separate topic of what is considered shovelware for a separate discussion, however.
 

dude

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,044
Tel Aviv
fair enough with respect to that particular game. I stand by what I said about my overall experience with the Discovery Queue, though; I feel comfortable saying that a Vladimir Putin runner game and a visual novel in entirely broken English are shovelware even if they have a couple positive reviews
Can someone define what shovelware is to me? Because I seriously have no idea what it means, apparently.
Some of these games have lower-end graphics, but I don't know if that makes them bad - They just look to be low budget indie games, but for all I know they could have some cool stuff in them.
The Putin runner game looks like a little protest game against Putin, they even have him shirtless and blushing! Made me chuckle and it costs like nothing so I don't see what the big deal is.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.