Shenmue III is timed exclusive to Epic Games Store, backers PC code redeemed on EGS & no refund (See Threadmark) [READ STAFF POSTS BEFORE POSTING]

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Axisofweevils

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,455
I do feel really bad for anyone that backed this.
Funding a game when nobody else was willing to, waiting years for it, only for EPIC to swoop in at the last minute to moneyhat it, depriving the backers of what they'd paid for, is such an incredibly scummy move.

It has put me off all future KS. I accept things can go wrong with solo indie devs, but when respected names (Gollop, Suzuki, Inafune) let you down, what hope is there?

For example, at one point, I probably would have funded SkateBird... But why take the risk when there's more good games out there than I'll ever get to play?
 

Thekeats

Member
Nov 1, 2017
386
Dwarf Fortress will definetly be called a trash game or shovelware.

Despite it looking like this:



Or this:



The game has an insane depth and complexity to it that few other games have, imo.
I must have terrible taste as i will be buying this as soon as i can.

Probably never even scratch the surface on it either.

But there will be people who will call it shovelware.
 

Tain

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,594
hadn't actually looked at my queue in ages, this page caused me to take a look.

it's all stuff I'm disinterested in, but there wasn't anything that had me asking "who would want this" so it's probably doing a reasonably decent job.
 

Krejlooc

Dreamcast Porno Party
Member
Oct 27, 2017
15,593
It sounds like you've already been sold, but I'll link the two articles that got me interested in Marginal Act's games, and highlights what's special about them:

https://surrealandcreepy.wordpress.com/2018/03/18/blind-boris-surviving-the-horrors-of-a-hospice/

As a person with a love for the underground indie scene and experimental games, it can be hard to convince people most indie games are actually serious efforts, games that end up flawed or even bad aren't the problem, and shovelware is actually more often than not a term that's broad use is often applied to game from the underground indie scene by surface level judgements rather than actual games spit out by using unaltered and barely reiterated games with little care of its quality.

Though this is getting a bit off the topic of hand, so we should probably reel it back into discussing Shenmue 3, as there's much to say in this case as it's kinda' uncharted territory with the current conflict in the PC Gaming scene. It would be interesting if someone felt like whipping up a topic on this separate topic of what is considered shovelware for a separate discussion, however.
These types of games are my jam. I dig highly experimental stuff. I'd rather play a janky experimental game that does something I've never seen before and leaves a lasting impression, than the latest Call of Duty Shooter that is technically magnificent but has become rote to me. Depending on how that Boris game gels with me, I'll try that Line game out too, but your earlier description as a sort of strategy management RPG thing sounded like something I would love.
 

dude

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,067
Tel Aviv
The fact we can have small experimental games on Steam right next to bigger productions is part of what makes it so unique and great. It what allowed games like Stephen's Sausage Rolls to succeed. That game would probably also be called shovelware today, huh?
 

Chudah

Member
Apr 23, 2019
73
I do feel really bad for anyone that backed this.
Funding a game when nobody else was willing to and then EPIC swooping in at the last minute to moneyhat it, depriving the backers of what they'd paid for, is such an incredibly scummy move.

It has put me off all future KS. I accept things can go wrong with solo indie devs, but when respected names (Gollop, Suzuki, Inafune) let you down, what hope is there?

For example, at one point, I probably would have funded SkateBird... But why take the risk when there's more good games out there than I'll ever get to play?
I've honestly suspected that the big publishers are hoping for the death of crowdfunding and the indie scene because it's draining money from their big triple A titles. Well, Epic very well may have given them exactly what they wanted, at least when it comes to crowdfunding.
 

Reticon6

Member
Oct 19, 2018
144
10,000m under surface level
I do feel really bad for anyone that backed this.
Funding a game when nobody else was willing to and then EPIC swooping in at the last minute to moneyhat it, depriving the backers of what they'd paid for, is such an incredibly scummy move.

It has put me off all future KS. I accept things can go wrong with solo indie devs, but when respected names (Gollop, Suzuki, Inafune) let you down, what hope is there?

For example, at one point, I probably would have funded SkateBird... But why take the risk when there's more good games out there than I'll ever get to play?
I really feel sorry for those who want to use kickstarter after this. It's one thing to not deliver, it's another to take the money and then castrate the backers for any agency to how they should receive their product. Horrible. Just horrible.
 

Demacabre

Member
Nov 20, 2017
1,802
Only reason why I never played it, is cause of the visuals. I know it's not a good reason, but I can't help it.
That's fair. Not every game is going to appeal to everyone and we all have different wants when it comes to games. Games that are only competitive MP turn me off full stop. Doesn't matter what the premise is or how good it looks like. The point is that labelling a game as shovelware because of the graphics or art style is just messed up. There is no need to defend if you don't like something on a personal level.
 

Peff

Member
Oct 25, 2017
653
The fact we can have small experimental games on Steam right next to bigger productions is part of what makes it so unique and great. It what allowed games like Stephen's Sausage Rolls to succeed. That game would probably also be called shovelware today, huh?
There are so many stories like that. One I vividly remember is Hotline Miami. People were talking it up in the Steam thread waaay back when, I looked at the store page and thought "eh, it's probably another Bad Rats meme", then bought it on a whim a bit later and immediately got it.
 

LewieP

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,986
There are so many stories like that. One I vividly remember is Hotline Miami. People were talking it up in the Steam thread waaay back when, I looked at the store page and thought "eh, it's probably another Bad Rats meme", then bought it on a whim a bit later and immediately got it.
and people in the know were well aware of Cactus, he'd made loads of great experimental games. But he was able to have a huge hit game only when he put it up on Steam. Steam has done that for a great many indie developers.
 

Krejlooc

Dreamcast Porno Party
Member
Oct 27, 2017
15,593
For example, at one point, I probably would have funded SkateBird... But why take the risk when there's more good games out there than I'll ever get to play?
To make dreams come true. To me, there is a romantic element to Kickstarter that I love being apart of. I'll tell a story about how a few years ago, I got burned to the tune of $600 on the Sixense STEMs kickstarter. I've been burned by some large kickstarters before, but I still believe in the system, in what it does, what it represents. Kickstarter empowers the little man to buck the traditional, overbearing system that is pervasive in every fascet of society today. Regardless of political affiliation or all that, virtually everybody is fed up with being the bottom 1% these days, and hates the complex, beurocratic system around us that governs what we can and cannot do. I have tried to do traditional funding for projects before, I have been deep in talks with traditional venture capitalists to get fundings for projects, for months and months at a time. In this world, if all you want to do is create, there is an entire system in place to crush you into obdeiance and it is honestly some soul crushing shit. Since I've been a little boy, started programming at 8 years old, all I've wanted to do is make video games, and there are millions of other people like me dreaming the same dream. Every day, for people like us, doors are closed by big entities - I see the Epic Games Store as one giant door closing in my face. Kickstarter is our savior. It's a way to tell the traditional system to take a fucking hike, to watch your neighbors and fellow man come together and donate for, to me, the purest sake of art. Yeah, lots of people are taking advantage of it. I honestly don't care, because what Kickstarter represents is greater than anything they can steal from me. Kickstarter is an alternative to a system I spend every day loathing. It feels like freedom to me.

I guess what I'm saying is I feel really sad when I read things like your opinion, even if I understand them. Despite everything that has happened regarding shenmue and even other kickstarters, I still believe, because deep down in my heart, I've always felt like this is the way the world should work. I quote this all the time, and it's silly as hell, but there is a line in a Coolio Song called The Block where he says "If hip hop didn't pay, I'd rap for free" and it's my favorite line ever. It sums up what creating games means to me. I've made small games in my free time my entire life because doing so gives me personal enjoyment, a feeling I can't describe. It feels like fulfilment. My father has encouraged me all along to merge my professional life with my passion, telling me that I'd find happiness when they became one. Kickstarter is how people like me do that without selling our souls to giant corporations.

So, not to try and force you to open your pocket book to any particular kickstarter, but if you ask me why I will continue to do so, that's my answer: to make dreams come true. I donate to kickstarters to make other people's dreams come true, in accordance with the golden rule, that when I finally take my turn to bat, others will do the same for me.
 

spineduke

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,574
What kind of skills required?
i wouldn't say its the most skill demanding game, but the depth of its systems is far beyond anything most games have

its the most systems driven thing i've ever seen

Except, like nearly everything it does, DF's world generation is incredible - and not least because of the absurd redundancy of its depth. Lots of games do procedural geography, a few do some procedural geology. Fewer still attempt procedural meteorology. Dwarf Fortress does all that, in spades. Then it starts adding people, and creation myths and biomes and a billion other things that you'll probably never even notice because you'll be too busy trying not to boil to death in magma or be eaten by giant carp.

This is a game which calculates the volume of blood in every creature it generates so it knows how much alcohol it would have to consume to get drunk, an update which, remarkably, ended up covering people's fortresses in cat vomit.

So you hit that little button, a big-bang finger press. Cultures rise and fall, heroes are born and slain. Forgotten Beasts, unique terrors of subterranean nightmare, are spawned and set free. Heroes meet monsters, and sometimes even prevail. Strongholds are swarmed and overcome, others rise to prosperity and power as wars and alliances are slung through binary aeons with staccato glory. Legends form and about them plays are written, great books penned, songs sung to carry epics through the ages. When DF says it's 'generating a world', it means it's 'Generating a World'. It's beautiful, insane overkill.
 

Nappael

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,997
For example, at one point, I probably would have funded SkateBird... But why take the risk when there's more good games out there than I'll ever get to play?
I don't think the same on your reasoning, but I'm in the same position on Skatebird only because I do not want to risk giving any money to a potential future EGS game, and now Epic are expanding out and targeting things like What The Golf and Untitled Goose Game, even medium size indies aren't safe.

Then you have a dev who seems to be 50/50 on the whole Epic situation, and yep I'm out.
 

Krejlooc

Dreamcast Porno Party
Member
Oct 27, 2017
15,593
and people in the know were well aware of Cactus, he'd made loads of great experimental games. But he was able to have a huge hit game only when he put it up on Steam. Steam has done that for a great many indie developers.
It's crazy how far we've come so fast that people forget where we were back in the old days. Zeboyd games is a local indie darling here, but I've been talking to those dudes for over a decade now and their rise began back in the "old days" of indie gaming. It's not like today where all indie games are on the same footing on every store. Zeboyd cut their teeth back in the XBLI days, when "indie" games were an entirely separate sub-store on the XBLA market.

That bedroom coders can be put on a virtual shelf next to games made by teams the size of small countries is a great, great thing for developers today. It wasn't always like that, and the way it is now opens so many doors that used to be closed and locked to small devs.
 

muteKi

Member
Oct 22, 2018
6,255
a sunken pirate ship
All the Sony exclusive games were coming to PC even before the EGS money hat. Flower was launched and announced at the same time as Journey! The Cage games have forks for the fucking Steam Controller (and they have been rumored to been working on it for 2 years now!).

The PR guy being EGS also said they had nothing to do with the deals allowing both of them to come to PC!!!
I stand corrected. Thought I saw someone at QD saying the payment was necessary for them to go independent but most of that stuff goes in one ear and out the other for me because I swear that game is tactically designed to make me hate every aspect of it
 

LewieP

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,986
It's crazy how far we've come so fast that people forget where we were back in the old days. Zeboyd games is a local indie darling here, but I've been talking to those dudes for over a decade now and their rise began back in the "old days" of indie gaming. It's not like today where all indie games are on the same footing on every store. Zeboyd cut their teeth back in the XBLI days, when "indie" games were an entirely separate sub-store on the XBLA market.

That bedroom coders can be put on a virtual shelf next to games made by teams the size of small countries is a great, great thing for developers today. It wasn't always like that, and the way it is now opens so many doors that used to be closed and locked to small devs.
Yep. Wind the clocks back to 2011 and this is where Zeboyd were
 

tuxfool

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,747
I've honestly suspected that the big publishers are hoping for the death of crowdfunding and the indie scene because it's draining money from their big triple A titles.
I very much doubt that.

The thing that is draining their money are other GaaS titles and Service games. Not their own gassy titles, but their competitors. Everyone is working to make hamster wheel "forever" games, meaning that the average consumer just sticks with their one game.

The people crowdfunding games are really not part of the masses, as such I don't think that they represent a significant chunk of the game buying public.
 
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Kylac

Member
Oct 31, 2017
838
MA
To make dreams come true. To me, there is a romantic element to Kickstarter that I love being apart of. I'll tell a story about how a few years ago, I got burned to the tune of $600 on the Sixense STEMs kickstarter. I've been burned by some large kickstarters before, but I still believe in the system, in what it does, what it represents. Kickstarter empowers the little man to buck the traditional, overbearing system that is pervasive in every fascet of society today. Regardless of political affiliation or all that, virtually everybody is fed up with being the bottom 1% these days, and hates the complex, beurocratic system around us that governs what we can and cannot do. I have tried to do traditional funding for projects before, I have been deep in talks with traditional venture capitalists to get fundings for projects, for months and months at a time. In this world, if all you want to do is create, there is an entire system in place to crush you into obdeiance and it is honestly some soul crushing shit. Since I've been a little boy, started programming at 8 years old, all I've wanted to do is make video games, and there are millions of other people like me dreaming the same dream. Every day, for people like us, doors are closed by big entities - I see the Epic Games Store as one giant door closing in my face. Kickstarter is our savior. It's a way to tell the traditional system to take a fucking hike, to watch your neighbors and fellow man come together and donate for, to me, the purest sake of art. Yeah, lots of people are taking advantage of it. I honestly don't care, because what Kickstarter represents is greater than anything they can steal from me. Kickstarter is an alternative to a system I spend every day loathing. It feels like freedom to me.

I guess what I'm saying is I feel really sad when I read things like your opinion, even if I understand them. Despite everything that has happened regarding shenmue and even other kickstarters, I still believe, because deep down in my heart, I've always felt like this is the way the world should work. I quote this all the time, and it's silly as hell, but there is a line in a Coolio Song called The Block where he says "If hip hop didn't pay, I'd rap for free" and it's my favorite line ever. It sums up what creating games means to me. I've made small games in my free time my entire life because doing so gives me personal enjoyment, a feeling I can't describe. It feels like fulfilment. My father has encouraged me all along to merge my professional life with my passion, telling me that I'd find happiness when they became one. Kickstarter is how people like me do that without selling our souls to giant corporations.

So, not to try and force you to open your pocket book to any particular kickstarter, but if you ask me why I will continue to do so, that's my answer: to make dreams come true. I donate to kickstarters to make other people's dreams come true, in accordance with the golden rule, that when I finally take my turn to bat, others will do the same for me.
I don't have anything to say but I really like this post. optimism is underappreciated.
 

Komo

Member
Jan 3, 2019
1,476
It's crazy how far we've come so fast that people forget where we were back in the old days. Zeboyd games is a local indie darling here, but I've been talking to those dudes for over a decade now and their rise began back in the "old days" of indie gaming. It's not like today where all indie games are on the same footing on every store. Zeboyd cut their teeth back in the XBLI days, when "indie" games were an entirely separate sub-store on the XBLA market.

That bedroom coders can be put on a virtual shelf next to games made by teams the size of small countries is a great, great thing for developers today. It wasn't always like that, and the way it is now opens so many doors that used to be closed and locked to small devs.
The amount of games on XBLI is sorta mindblowing.
 

SteveWinwood

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,674
USA USA USA
I'd like to know if it is typical for business decisions like distribution to be handled by a developer. I have no idea. I am curious if that is a common responsibility of a game developer that has a publisher.
despite being "for the devs" epic has said they only deal with the publishers when it comes to these deals and it's their responsibility to talk it over with the devs

we know some devs have been caught just as off guard as fans about exclusivity announcements

with logs showing them updating steam builds even hours before when the deals had been done for weeks

edit I think I completely misread what you were going for in your post but I'm leaving this up anyway
 

StereoVSN

Member
Nov 1, 2017
4,320
Eastern US
I really feel sorry for those who want to use kickstarter after this. It's one thing to not deliver, it's another to take the money and then castrate the backers for any agency to how they should receive their product. Horrible. Just horrible.
Yeap, I kickstarted over 20 games (closer to 30). I am done though. Just can't trust devs not to play this shit at the last moment.

For Shenmue 3, refunds have to be made available. I wonder if someone brings them to court in EU, we shall see.
 
Dec 4, 2017
4,125
Brazil
Isn't Steam flooding their storefront with unabashed trash, completely flushing away any chance that a legitimate good indie game can be noticed without significant marketing?
It seems you are watching too much Jimquisition. It has bad games but it also has lots of good games. You can select what you want to discover. Also, no storefront is perfect, you will always need to look for new thing by yourself, talk to people, get recommendations, etc.

My point being is that Steam also damages the industry, in some ways in a worse way than the EGS.
How ? Could you elaborate ?
 
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Reticon6

Member
Oct 19, 2018
144
10,000m under surface level
Yeap, I kickstarted over 20 games (closer to 30). I am done though. Just can't trust devs not to play this shit at the last moment.

For Shenmue 3, refunds have to be made available. I wonder if someone brings them to court in EU, we shall see.
Whatever can bring this case to justice, I'm all for it. But the reality hits hard when kickstarter has NO protections with loopholes like this. By being "acquired" by a larger company, it diminishes the point of backers money. The kickstarter funds are meant ONLY for that development that was funded - not used as a backbone to highlight your company to a sale agreement - that IS SHADY AS FUCK.
 

Border

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,571
So, you decided to press the replay button on your messaging, hand-waving the bigger issue here which is basic consumer rights: Get what we have payed for or have our fund refunded. PERIOD.
Get a refund if you can, sure. They’ve already said refunds are not happening though, so when I say “Might as well just play the game” that’s under the assumption that refunds will not be made.

This isn't about burning Epic or Deep Silver, clearly the backers were fucked - left, right and sideways. It's exposed a grand flaw with Kickstarter as they can no longer hold developers accountable as LONG as they are merging with another company who doesn't have to adhere to the kickstarter policies. That. is. fucked. up. And it's a shame you don't see that
This isn’t some unknown undiscovered loophole that has only now been “exposed”. This is how Kickstarter operates. When you back a project you assume the risk of fraud, failure, or under-delivery. Kickstarter does not and cannot force creators to give you a refund and they will not assume any liability for projects gone bad. Deep Silver’s involvement doesn’t make any difference here; whether they have a publisher or not, developers can alter or abandon projects with little recourse for backers. Kickstarter can certainly apply pressure and try to mediate disputes, but they have never been in the business of “holding developers accountable”. If the money is gone the money is gone.

Kickstarter has been around for nearly a decade and has had any number of fail profile projects tank and leave backers in the lurch. It is surprising that some people still believe they provide any measure of protection for backers. Once a creator has been handed a check you are largely at the mercy of their decisions.
 

Lakeside

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,561
I really feel sorry for those who want to use kickstarter after this. It's one thing to not deliver, it's another to take the money and then castrate the backers for any agency to how they should receive their product. Horrible. Just horrible.
Right.. most people are aware that there is some risk with KickStarter, but the risk should be "can they pull it off?". The risk shouldn't be will they take money from a third party, keep my money, then do whatever the hell they want.
 

Reticon6

Member
Oct 19, 2018
144
10,000m under surface level
Get a refund if you can, sure. They’ve already said refunds are not happening though, so when I say “Might as well just play the game” that’s under the assumption that refunds will not be made.
With what? By installing EGS? It's back square-one with you guys. You sure know how to try and swing this the other way but we caught you dead center.

This isn’t some unknown undiscovered loophole that has only now been “exposed”. This is how Kickstarter operates. When you back a project you assume the risk of fraud, failure, or under-delivery. Kickstarter does not and cannot force creators to give you a refund and they will not assume any liability for projects gone bad. Deep Silver’s involvement doesn’t make any difference here; whether they have a publisher or not, developers can alter or abandon projects with little recourse for backers. Kickstarter can certainly apply pressure and try to mediate disputes, but they have never been in the business of “holding developers accountable”. If the money is gone the money is gone.

Kickstarter has been around for nearly a decade and has had any number of fail profile projects tank and leave backers in the lurch. It is surprising that some people still believe they provide any measure of protection for backers. Once a creator has been handed a check you are largely at the mercy of their decisions.
Missing the point seems to be your forte, so let me straighten this out for you: Future gaming projects will be affected by this. Guaranteed. And if Kickstarter hopes to ever win back the trust for aspiring developers to use their platform - this kind of indifference would eventually rule gaming out of their ecosystem. That is what this whole issue with EGS stands in the gaming industry. Destroying potential support for indie games that would never make it out the light of day.

Here's one of the "rules" they set up:

Projects can't offer equity

Investment is not permitted on Kickstarter. Projects can't offer incentives like equity, revenue sharing, or investment opportunities.
Guess what, turns out if you buy the fucking company that receive the funding, they managed to get said benefits that Kickstarter is trying to prevent. So why not just give that option to the backers if it will ended up going to the biggest buyer?
 

Sixfortyfive

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,712
Kickstarter has been around for nearly a decade and has had any number of fail profile projects tank and leave backers in the lurch. It is surprising that some people still believe they provide any measure of protection for backers. Once a creator has been handed a check you are largely at the mercy of their decisions.
I think you consistently miss the point.

I can accept some degree of failure. Shenmue itself, as a brand, is "over-promising and under-delivering" personified. I love it anyway, not for any of the games' individual merits, but for the ambition, scope, and vision that it represents. I dropped $300 on Shenmue III with the full expectation that Lan Di would get away for another 20 years.

But the Shenmue III Kickstarter campaign didn't fail. They raked in an obscene amount of money and are going to deliver a finished product. Selling out their original backers for another paycheck, though, is a level of scumbag that is quite different from just missing the mark on development costs or deadlines. It's outright malicious.

I am not going to accept that outcome without returning fire in kind.
 

Bowl0l

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,186

bobnowhere

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,493
Elsewhere for 8 minutes
Now I almost assuredly have more steam games than most if not all people in this thread and with that probably more Sterling-bait trash games.

My Discovery tour is:

- Space Engine
- Hell let loose
- Doom Eternal
- OCTOPATH TRAVELER
- MORDHAU
- Cooking Simulator (streaming massive on steam atm)
- Trover (good enough for Epic)
- Planet Zoo
- コイカツ! / Koikatsu Party (Ok, not a great example! Also it's $85 dollarydoos!)
- KurtzPel
- A Plague Tale: Innocence
- Something called Destiny 2

2nd queue had no trash either. I don't have any tags or developers blocked, no sign of any weird hentai or asset flips.

Maybe follow some of the better curators? Now, I understand curation isn't perfect on Steam, heaps of meme nonsense but I've got 40 odd curators ignored and that seems to have gotten rid of most of the noise. You get out of steam what you put in.
 

Demacabre

Member
Nov 20, 2017
1,802
To make dreams come true. To me, there is a romantic element to Kickstarter that I love being apart of. I'll tell a story about how a few years ago, I got burned to the tune of $600 on the Sixense STEMs kickstarter. I've been burned by some large kickstarters before, but I still believe in the system, in what it does, what it represents. Kickstarter empowers the little man to buck the traditional, overbearing system that is pervasive in every fascet of society today. Regardless of political affiliation or all that, virtually everybody is fed up with being the bottom 1% these days, and hates the complex, beurocratic system around us that governs what we can and cannot do. I have tried to do traditional funding for projects before, I have been deep in talks with traditional venture capitalists to get fundings for projects, for months and months at a time. In this world, if all you want to do is create, there is an entire system in place to crush you into obdeiance and it is honestly some soul crushing shit. Since I've been a little boy, started programming at 8 years old, all I've wanted to do is make video games, and there are millions of other people like me dreaming the same dream. Every day, for people like us, doors are closed by big entities - I see the Epic Games Store as one giant door closing in my face. Kickstarter is our savior. It's a way to tell the traditional system to take a fucking hike, to watch your neighbors and fellow man come together and donate for, to me, the purest sake of art. Yeah, lots of people are taking advantage of it. I honestly don't care, because what Kickstarter represents is greater than anything they can steal from me. Kickstarter is an alternative to a system I spend every day loathing. It feels like freedom to me.

I guess what I'm saying is I feel really sad when I read things like your opinion, even if I understand them. Despite everything that has happened regarding shenmue and even other kickstarters, I still believe, because deep down in my heart, I've always felt like this is the way the world should work. I quote this all the time, and it's silly as hell, but there is a line in a Coolio Song called The Block where he says "If hip hop didn't pay, I'd rap for free" and it's my favorite line ever. It sums up what creating games means to me. I've made small games in my free time my entire life because doing so gives me personal enjoyment, a feeling I can't describe. It feels like fulfilment. My father has encouraged me all along to merge my professional life with my passion, telling me that I'd find happiness when they became one. Kickstarter is how people like me do that without selling our souls to giant corporations.

So, not to try and force you to open your pocket book to any particular kickstarter, but if you ask me why I will continue to do so, that's my answer: to make dreams come true. I donate to kickstarters to make other people's dreams come true, in accordance with the golden rule, that when I finally take my turn to bat, others will do the same for me.
Just wanted to add, this is a great post.

I will admit to being more cynical on crowdfunding now but, you are right. If the devs come across as sincere, forthright, and it's a project I believe in... I'll back it. It's just a shame Epic and the devs that sold out their backers have poisoned the well for crowdfunding developers now. Epic is literally doing the exact opposite their hollow PR professed to do.
 
Oct 30, 2017
1,238
despite being "for the devs" epic has said they only deal with the publishers when it comes to these deals and it's their responsibility to talk it over with the devs

we know some devs have been caught just as off guard as fans about exclusivity announcements

with logs showing them updating steam builds even hours before when the deals had been done for weeks

edit I think I completely misread what you were going for in your post but I'm leaving this up anyway
There is a poster here who also posts on the Dojo (Spaghetti) and he would keep us posted on frequent Steam updates from Ys Net. I can't remember when the last one occurred, but I feel like your scenario happened here as well. I think you read me correctly, but I know my avatar and presence in every Shenmue thread casts doubts on my purpose in this thread so I'll leave it at that.
 

Lant_War

The Fallen
Jul 14, 2018
5,791
Remember when Tim Sweeney told everyone MS would keep patching Windows 10 until it made Steam a buggy mess no one will use, did he just got bored of waiting and decided to try and buy out the competition instead? Also remember in that interview he said that MS new view on being open was all just PR? Isn't a Windows OS a requirement of the Epic Store but not a requirement of Steam?

Tim Sweeney sure is something...

I hope you guys get something form this mess, the whole thing is unreal*.

*EDIT: That was not an intentional pun...
Anything Tim Sweeney says and / or does has absolutely 0 value.
 

SteveWinwood

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,674
USA USA USA
There is a poster here who also posts on the Dojo (Spaghetti) and he would keep us posted on frequent Steam updates from Ys Net. I can't remember when the last one occurred, but I feel like your scenario happened here as well. I think you read me correctly, but I know my avatar and presence in every Shenmue thread casts doubts on my purpose in this thread so I'll leave it at that.
no i read it the second time after my post as you saying that this might be a special case that might not fit in our normal understanding of how business works in video games

between rights from one company, Kickstarter funds, Sony marketing money (I think?), and then deep silver coming in later for some publishing duties (but not whatever fangamer is doing maybe) who the hell knows who's doing what
 

Chudah

Member
Apr 23, 2019
73
Even then, If anyone remembers shenmue, that alone will deter people from backing.
Exactly. I don't trust any dev's word on committing to Steam. To be honest, I wouldn't put it past Epic to specifically target those devs to try and grab up as many detractors as possible, and everyone has a price. They need to make inroads with the PC community, and they can't do that unless they force the staunchest hold outs to convert.
 

Spaghetti

Member
Dec 2, 2017
2,299
despite being "for the devs" epic has said they only deal with the publishers when it comes to these deals and it's their responsibility to talk it over with the devs

we know some devs have been caught just as off guard as fans about exclusivity announcements

with logs showing them updating steam builds even hours before when the deals had been done for weeks

edit I think I completely misread what you were going for in your post but I'm leaving this up anyway
There is a poster here who also posts on the Dojo (Spaghetti) and he would keep us posted on frequent Steam updates from Ys Net. I can't remember when the last one occurred, but I feel like your scenario happened here as well. I think you read me correctly, but I know my avatar and presence in every Shenmue thread casts doubts on my purpose in this thread so I'll leave it at that.
Not going to read too far back into discussions here, but yeah, the SteamDB entry was still being updated regularly as recently as the start of this month. In March, Yu said they were making adjustments for launching on Steam before the release. The very recent delay also first leaked when the date on the Steam page changed for 20-30 minutes before reverting back (begs the question why they'd change it there at all) . Cedric Biscay, the game's co-producer noted the delay was "unexpected".

I dunno if there's enough to connect the dots, but I'm inclined to believe events happened quite quickly even though Shenmue III has been sat in EGS' equivalent of SteamDB/SteamSpy for a few months.
 
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