Shenmue III is timed exclusive to Epic Games Store, backers PC code redeemed on EGS & no refund (See Threadmark) [READ STAFF POSTS BEFORE POSTING]

[Deleted member 2317]

Well, this and a few other pledges have thoroughly convinced me to never Kickstart games ever again. Good while it lasted though!

Also, fuck off EGS with all of your cuntery- your bullshit is exactly what the PC market does NOT need.

 

[Deleted member 12790]

It's also easy to see that people are taking this way too personally. EGS isn't Steam, I get it. It's not just another launcher, I get that too. But at the end of the day you can play the game on the same platform, yet people all over this site make it seem like a game went from being on Xbox to going only to PlayStation.

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Steam is a platform

 

[Runwhiteboyrun]

It like going on holiday package advertised as a 5 star hotel but being told your now staying in a 1 star hotel but hay your still getting the holiday and no refunds.

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So Shenmue itself is only 1 star out of 5 without Steam. Thanks, purchase avoided.

 

[biocat]

I knew Deep Silver would mean trouble. So sad to see a series I loved as a kid get kicked around because of terrible business decisions.

 

[Shogun]

well there's no helping some people I guess

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This thread has been absolutely amazing for the ignore list.

 

[valeo]

It's also easy to see that people are taking this way too personally. EGS isn't Steam, I get it. It's not just another launcher, I get that too. But at the end of the day you can play the game on the same platform, yet people all over this site make it seem like a game went from being on Xbox to going only to PlayStation.

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Basically, can you still play it? Yes. Does it affect the quality of the game? No.

 

[SteveWinwood]

i wrote a really official sounding letter just the other week that got me back a bunch of money

im pretty much a lawyer at this point

i can get money from anything at this point im drunk with power shenmue backers im here for you

yes im joking about the last sentence

but not the first two

 

[Teiresias]

Reported for Fraud on Kickstarter Support as well just now.

Also responded to that bullshit "no refunds" response i got with probably the most angry message i have ever sent to some corporate entity.

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Is there a standard way of doing this or are you just sending a "contact us" email?

 

[Bigg]

It's not double standard, many of these guys are partnered to promote EGS. I saw it at kinda funny games where they were open about it. I would't be surprised if they werent the only ones. Kind of disgusting honestly

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I think implying that the Verge is being paid by Epic to give them good coverage without any proof is kind of shitty?

 

[Andvari]

Very sad to see this tonight... As if Shenmue III needs anymore negativity after the whole KS funding fiasco and the amount of people who shit on the game for not looking as good as a $50m budget game in every thread known to man.

This takes it to a whole new level, They have sold out there backers and screwed over many possible future customers by alienating the PC playerbase, In total including extra purchases when I filled in my survey I dropped around $700 on this Kickstarter and I'm just disgusted by this decision.

It is very questionable and in my honest opinion I think we can safely say Shenmue 4 and possibly even Shenmue 5 are never going to see the light of day with this, I guess Shenmue 3 will just add even more questions that we will never get answers for.

This move has put the nail in the coffin for the Shenmue series future.

 

[unrealist]

I bet the OT when it comes out or even the review thread, wont be as long as this one... which is kinda sad.

 

[Splader]

Steam is a platform

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No... PC is the platform. Not Steam.

 

[Hucast]

The way I see it is, the only way you can do this without any guilt conscience is if you're a scumbag. Yu Suzuki literally couldn't have been making this without the backers. What an ungrateful bastard.

 

[Ryu bogard]

I could understand when kickstarter abondon old platforms like Wii u or PSP but this is just a big f u to PC backers. It changed my opinion on the developer.

 

[Majiebeast]

The way I see it is, the only way you can do this without any guilt conscience is if you're a scumbag. Yu Suzuki literally couldn't have been making this without the backers. What an ungrateful bastard.

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This is more then likely a Deep Silver decision just like Metro.

 

[MrCunningham]

of epic cared about devs they would give their customers a reason, any reason, to pick the store that gives them the most money other than exclusivity

they can't

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That's all they can do at this point is to offer exclusivity. It gives people one choice and drives them over to EDS, where they can find the same game at the same price without the extra features seen on Steam. But for the publishers, the royalty fees are equal to every customer on Steam buying three copies of the game each. That's more money to split between Deep Silver and Yu Net. Less risk too, since one copy = close to three copies sold on Steam.

Valve really needs to compete. Maybe offer a lesser service on Steam that does not includes half the steam features at $15 royalty fees. Epic really has publishers by the balls here. Just supporting another platform that has a 35% (with UE4 license) licensing fee is enough to lose out on those 3-1 licensing fee profit margins. It seems like Deep Silver really jumped on this again, like they did with Metro Exodus.

EDIT: I made a mistake and said "Three times the profit margins" which is not the case, since that would be a %256 profit margin. I meant three times less royalty fees. Which adds up over time.

 

[Deleted member 3208]

No... PC is the platform. Not Steam.

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You are wrong. Don't worry, everyone make mistakes.

 

[Kuga]

No... PC is the platform. Not Steam.

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But Steam is a platform.

 

[Deleted member 10629]

For all the 'you're still getting a game folks', imagine this:

I tell you that I can cook you a meal for $15

You pay me $20 since you heard my food is delicious

I show you what I can cook

I even ask you what kind of special sauce you want with your food

You choose a steak meal with cheese and sauce.

Then I deliver a hot dog, which wasnt even on the menu.

Sure, I served you a meal. But that's not what I advertised nor what you expected.

You obviously tell me to refund your money.

I tell you nah fam enjoy your hotdog. Then I flip you the bird and kick your cat.

 

[Xiaomi]

No... PC is the platform. Not Steam.

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When one store offers an entirely different set of controller, cloud storage, streaming, and community features than another, they are effectively different platforms. You are paying the same price for fewer features on egs.

 

[Asator]

Got a response from my Kickstarter message, skimmed the last few pages and didn't see it:

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What a dick move. Hope people who want a refund will be able to get it somehow, because this is fucked up.

 

[Shadoken]

Boy, Sweeney really knows how to capture the goodwill of his core audience, damn.

Why go after kickstarted games coming to steam. Those people are invested in the product and platform. For fucks sake.

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Actually it makes sense business-wise. You spend lesser money to get more niche products with a hardcore following who will move to your platform. And then slowly expand the userbase of your store , by targeting different niches/genres.
When you moneyhat a bigger game with a mainstream audience, It costs waaay more. And you hamper the success of the game by having a small audience on your platform.

 

[Chaos2Frozen]

This monkey knife fight between steam and epic has been most amusing

 

[Deleted member 42]

Oh God no

I was told by Applecare there would be no PC storefront platform arguments here

HELP

 

[Hucast]

I think implying that the Verge is being paid by Epic to give them good coverage without any proof is kind of shitty?

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I'm guessing, not implying, so yes there's no certainty behind my claim. And no it's not about good coverage. They could be doing bad coverage if they wanted, but it's a bit of a consience thing. They get money to promote EGS so that's where they feel more strained to be critical. That's how it looked on kinda funny. They were like, "think whatever you like of it but yeah, we're partnered with them to promote this stuff".

 

[Shoshi]

Ffff! I knew I shouldn't have changed to Steam digital only, eventhough I supported physical PS4 + a bit more! At least I wanted to support them and can live without physical things, but a digital PS4 would have been best in hindsight.

 

[3rdman]

Cool, thanks.

If I can't get a refund then I'm starting a giveaway thread once I get my copy. I am seriously willing to just pass my copy on to someone else for free to undercut a sale out of spite.

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If I don't get a refund, ill take the code and simply throw it away so that EGS never gets the forced install they paid for. Instead I'll do something I haven't done in 15 years...I'll find a hacked PC version and play that instead.

 

[Deleted member 12790]

No... PC is the platform. Not Steam.

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Steamworks - Build & Distribute Your Games on Steam

Steamworks is a set of tools and services that help game developers and publishers build their games and get the most out of distributing on Steam.

partner.steamgames.com

You don't know what a platform is. Steam is literally a platform. It's a set of dependencies you compile against. It's a literal development platform in the most explicit sense. Source: I have been doing development for 25 years now.

Ganes LITERALLY run on steam, just like they "run on windows."

Platform documentation: https://partner.steamgames.com/doc/home

get reading and start learning

 

[J75]

Maybe a little!

I mean this is not ideal. In a perfect world it would be available on all platforms, no strings attached. But The game is still being made, and is still available on other hardware. More than that, it looks incredibly faithful to the tone and atmosphere of the original games, something that no game has really recaptured since the old days. I would really caution against a game switching launchers on the PC actually depressing you, and looking instead at the bigger picture; Shenmue 3 is real, exists, and is coming out soon to be playable in your very own hands! Because trust me, as a fan of Megaman Legends knowing I'll never get a sequel to the now 19-year cliffhanger to my favorite gaming series in the world, it could be so, so much worse.

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I mean, the game moving to the Epic storefront isn't what's bothering me, i will play the game on whatever storefront it's at. It's the really negative PR and discourse that this decision has created it's what is worrying me. Shenmue 3 exist but we already know this game won't end the story and a 4th game not happening due to all of this will be a big shame. I just hope it sells enough for a 4th title despite all of the people pushing back on Epic.

 

[Dario]

Not offering refunds because a platform that was promised is not going to actually be included is some shady shit. I see no difference between this and a console version being cancelled and refunded like all other Kickstarters where that has happened.

You'd figure the moneyhat would give them enough funds to take the hit, but apparently they'd rather play for the short term. Not the smartest thing to do for a new company which had to heavily rely on fan funding...

I changed my survey answer to a PS4 copy, as I'd rather not support these kind of deals. It feels really dirty for such a beloved franchise with such a passionate fanbase to be used as a pawn in this dumb game that Epic is playing right before it comes out.

 

[Ferrio]

This monkey knife fight between steam and epic has been most amusing

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Not really a fight when Valve hasn't even brought out their switch blade wielding monkey.

 

[Alvis]

i wrote a really official sounding letter just the other week that got me back a bunch of money

im pretty much a lawyer at this point

i can get money from anything at this point im drunk with power shenmue backers im here for you

yes im joking about the last sentence

but not the first two

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Please send me a PM with your magical letter. I want a refund.

 

[Heart of Poumn]

Ignoring people's preference on storefronts, the promise was a steam key. If they decide to change that promise, they absolutely should be offering refunds to people who backed for that specific reward.

 

[SaberVS7]

Well, good for Suzuki.

He'd better hope he's got enough money for his next project to not need a Kickstarter, because he's sure as hell shot his credibility to shit as far as Crowdfunding goes.

Also Daily Reminder that Deep Silver is owned by the 8chan AMA guys.

 

[phonicjoy]

Actually it makes sense business-wise. You spend lesser money to get more niche products with a hardcore following who will move to your platform. And then slowly expand the userbase of your store , by targeting different niches/genres.
When you moneyhat a bigger game with a mainstream audience, It costs waaay more. And you hamper the success of the game by having a small audience on your platform.

Click to shrink...

My thinking was: the Kickstarter is basically the sales this is going to get. People are notoriously loss averse, and as they've seen in recent months; no steam is seen as a loss. They aren't moving a niche hardcore audience to their store, they are alienating the hardest of hard-core consumers of their product.

I would agree if this had been a newly announced game, perhaps even funded by epic.

 

[biocat]

Actually it makes sense business-wise. You spend lesser money to get more niche products with a hardcore following who will move to your platform. And then slowly expand the userbase of your store , by targeting different niches/genres.
When you moneyhat a bigger game with a mainstream audience, It costs waaay more. And you hamper the success of the game by having a small audience on your platform.

Click to shrink...

Exactly. And the main stream gaming audience is largely there already playing Fortnite.

 

[Deleted member 12790]

I would seriously like to see someone try to explain how windows is a platform, but steam is not.

 

[VZ_Blade]

This situation is stupid.
Why can't they continue to distribute steam codes (as promised in the kickstarter) and have EGS for the non-backer platform? There will still be backlash, but not to the current extent.

Because Epic almost certainly included that as a clause in the contract. This game is particularly front-loaded in terms of backers, so if they start giving away Steam keys to anybody who wants one, there won't be a lot of people left to buy the game on EGS, not to mention that if people had taken this lying down then there'd be thousands of extra potential EGS customers thanks to using Shenmue III as a trojan horse.

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Good point.

 

[Sei]

They double dipped.

They got all the money from the fans to make the game.

Now they take Epics money and tell the fans to deal with it.

Yikes man.

 

[nib95]

Why are people so outraged by this? You're getting the same game, just via a different store. What does it matter if it's via Steam or via EGS? Is it just because those who have to pay for the game may have to pay more on EGS? So an outrage based on a slight extra cost to the game that the developers would benefit from? Surely gamers should want the developers to get more financial support and backing, especially when it's a tiny Kick-starter backed studio like YS Net, if Epic are paying them for exclusivity, and when you can play the same game all the same.

 

[KuwabaraTheMan]

This monkey knife fight between steam and epic has been most amusing

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It's not really a fight when only one side is fighting. I don't think Valve/Steam have even mentioned EGS by name.

 

[Teiresias]

Also reported them to Kickstarter, though I wasn't quite sure which category to put my complaint under. At the very least it will hopefully keep Kickstarter from allowing Ys Net and Suzuki from utilizing the platform to scam over anyone else on potential future projects. Developers that engage in this kind of behavior should not be allowed to further crowd fun on Kickstarter.

 

[Deleted member 7777]

People are this angry over a launcher.

 

[mclem]

i wrote a really official sounding letter just the other week that got me back a bunch of money

im pretty much a lawyer at this point

i can get money from anything at this point im drunk with power shenmue backers im here for you

yes im joking about the last sentence

but not the first two

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Thanks to your avatar, I read this as Nancy saying this.

And now I want that storyline.

 

[Absolute]

Oh God no

I was told by Applecare there would be no PC storefront platform arguments here

HELP

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No refunds.

 

[KuwabaraTheMan]

Exactly. And the main stream gaming audience is largely there already playing Fortnite.

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The venn diagram between Fortnite players and people who love Shenmue is probably pretty close to two separate circles.

 

[Xiaomi]

Why are people so outraged by this? You're getting the same game, just via a different store. What does it matter if it's via Steam or via EGS? Is it just because those who have to pay for the game may have to pay more on EGS? So an outrage based on a slight extra cost to the game that the developers would benefit from? Surely gamers should want the developers to get more financial support and backing, especially if Epic are paying them for exclusivity, and when you can play the same game all the same.

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No. Sometimes you need to search for context before joining a discussion.

 

[Hucast]

Also reported them to Kickstarter, though I wasn't quite sure which category to put my complaint under. At the very least it will hopefully keep Kickstarter from allowing Ys Net and Suzuki from utilizing the platform to scam over anyone else on potential future projects. Developers that engage in this kind of behavior should not be allowed to further crowd fun on Kickstarter.

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How do you report? We should mass report imo

 

[Chris Best]

Reported them also to Kickstarter under breaking the rules.

 

[Deleted member 4609]

This situation is stupid.
Why can't they continue to distribute steam codes (as promised in the kickstarter) and have EGS for the non-backer platform? There will still be backlash, but not to the current extent.

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Because Epic almost certainly included that as a clause in the contract. This game is particularly front-loaded in terms of backers, so if they start giving away Steam keys to anybody who wants one, there won't be a lot of people left to buy the game on EGS, not to mention that if people had taken this lying down then there'd be thousands of extra potential EGS customers thanks to using Shenmue III as a trojan horse.