Only reason why I never played it, is cause of the visuals. I know it's not a good reason, but I can't help it.
What kind of skills required?
The fact we can have small experimental games on Steam right next to bigger productions is part of what makes it so unique and great. It what allowed games like Stephen's Sausage Rolls to succeed. That game would probably also be called shovelware today, huh?
and people in the know were well aware of Cactus, he'd made loads of great experimental games. But he was able to have a huge hit game only when he put it up on Steam. Steam has done that for a great many indie developers.There are so many stories like that. One I vividly remember is Hotline Miami. People were talking it up in the Steam thread waaay back when, I looked at the store page and thought "eh, it's probably another Bad Rats meme", then bought it on a whim a bit later and immediately got it.
For example, at one point, I probably would have funded SkateBird... But why take the risk when there's more good games out there than I'll ever get to play?
Except, like nearly everything it does, DF's world generation is incredible - and not least because of the absurd redundancy of its depth. Lots of games do procedural geography, a few do some procedural geology. Fewer still attempt procedural meteorology. Dwarf Fortress does all that, in spades. Then it starts adding people, and creation myths and biomes and a billion other things that you'll probably never even notice because you'll be too busy trying not to boil to death in magma or be eaten by giant carp.
This is a game which calculates the volume of blood in every creature it generates so it knows how much alcohol it would have to consume to get drunk, an update which, remarkably, ended up covering people's fortresses in cat vomit.
So you hit that little button, a big-bang finger press. Cultures rise and fall, heroes are born and slain. Forgotten Beasts, unique terrors of subterranean nightmare, are spawned and set free. Heroes meet monsters, and sometimes even prevail. Strongholds are swarmed and overcome, others rise to prosperity and power as wars and alliances are slung through binary aeons with staccato glory. Legends form and about them plays are written, great books penned, songs sung to carry epics through the ages. When DF says it's 'generating a world', it means it's 'Generating a World'. It's beautiful, insane overkill.
For example, at one point, I probably would have funded SkateBird... But why take the risk when there's more good games out there than I'll ever get to play?
and people in the know were well aware of Cactus, he'd made loads of great experimental games. But he was able to have a huge hit game only when he put it up on Steam. Steam has done that for a great many indie developers.
Will get it once it's released. Hopefully I will stay sane.i wouldn't say its the most skill demanding game, but the depth of its systems is far beyond anything most games have
its the most systems driven thing i've ever seen
I wish Rimworld is that in depth.i wouldn't say its the most skill demanding game, but the depth of its systems is far beyond anything most games have
its the most systems driven thing i've ever seen
Thanks.You can play it right now, its free
http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/
its coming to steam for monies just as a way to financially support the dev
It still astonishes me that Gollop willingly took the massive hit to his reputation like that.
All the Sony exclusive games were coming to PC even before the EGS money hat. Flower was launched and announced at the same time as Journey! The Cage games have forks for the fucking Steam Controller (and they have been rumored to been working on it for 2 years now!).
The PR guy being EGS also said they had nothing to do with the deals allowing both of them to come to PC!!!
It's crazy how far we've come so fast that people forget where we were back in the old days. Zeboyd games is a local indie darling here, but I've been talking to those dudes for over a decade now and their rise began back in the "old days" of indie gaming. It's not like today where all indie games are on the same footing on every store. Zeboyd cut their teeth back in the XBLI days, when "indie" games were an entirely separate sub-store on the XBLA market.
That bedroom coders can be put on a virtual shelf next to games made by teams the size of small countries is a great, great thing for developers today. It wasn't always like that, and the way it is now opens so many doors that used to be closed and locked to small devs.
You can play it right now, its free
http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/
its coming to steam for monies just as a way to financially support the dev
I very much doubt that.I've honestly suspected that the big publishers are hoping for the death of crowdfunding and the indie scene because it's draining money from their big triple A titles.
To make dreams come true. To me, there is a romantic element to Kickstarter that I love being apart of. I'll tell a story about how a few years ago, I got burned to the tune of $600 on the Sixense STEMs kickstarter. I've been burned by some large kickstarters before, but I still believe in the system, in what it does, what it represents. Kickstarter empowers the little man to buck the traditional, overbearing system that is pervasive in every fascet of society today. Regardless of political affiliation or all that, virtually everybody is fed up with being the bottom 1% these days, and hates the complex, beurocratic system around us that governs what we can and cannot do. I have tried to do traditional funding for projects before, I have been deep in talks with traditional venture capitalists to get fundings for projects, for months and months at a time. In this world, if all you want to do is create, there is an entire system in place to crush you into obdeiance and it is honestly some soul crushing shit. Since I've been a little boy, started programming at 8 years old, all I've wanted to do is make video games, and there are millions of other people like me dreaming the same dream. Every day, for people like us, doors are closed by big entities - I see the Epic Games Store as one giant door closing in my face. Kickstarter is our savior. It's a way to tell the traditional system to take a fucking hike, to watch your neighbors and fellow man come together and donate for, to me, the purest sake of art. Yeah, lots of people are taking advantage of it. I honestly don't care, because what Kickstarter represents is greater than anything they can steal from me. Kickstarter is an alternative to a system I spend every day loathing. It feels like freedom to me.
I guess what I'm saying is I feel really sad when I read things like your opinion, even if I understand them. Despite everything that has happened regarding shenmue and even other kickstarters, I still believe, because deep down in my heart, I've always felt like this is the way the world should work. I quote this all the time, and it's silly as hell, but there is a line in a Coolio Song called The Block where he says "If hip hop didn't pay, I'd rap for free" and it's my favorite line ever. It sums up what creating games means to me. I've made small games in my free time my entire life because doing so gives me personal enjoyment, a feeling I can't describe. It feels like fulfilment. My father has encouraged me all along to merge my professional life with my passion, telling me that I'd find happiness when they became one. Kickstarter is how people like me do that without selling our souls to giant corporations.
So, not to try and force you to open your pocket book to any particular kickstarter, but if you ask me why I will continue to do so, that's my answer: to make dreams come true. I donate to kickstarters to make other people's dreams come true, in accordance with the golden rule, that when I finally take my turn to bat, others will do the same for me.
The amount of games on XBLI is sorta mindblowing.It's crazy how far we've come so fast that people forget where we were back in the old days. Zeboyd games is a local indie darling here, but I've been talking to those dudes for over a decade now and their rise began back in the "old days" of indie gaming. It's not like today where all indie games are on the same footing on every store. Zeboyd cut their teeth back in the XBLI days, when "indie" games were an entirely separate sub-store on the XBLA market.
That bedroom coders can be put on a virtual shelf next to games made by teams the size of small countries is a great, great thing for developers today. It wasn't always like that, and the way it is now opens so many doors that used to be closed and locked to small devs.
despite being "for the devs" epic has said they only deal with the publishers when it comes to these deals and it's their responsibility to talk it over with the devsI'd like to know if it is typical for business decisions like distribution to be handled by a developer. I have no idea. I am curious if that is a common responsibility of a game developer that has a publisher.
Yeap, I kickstarted over 20 games (closer to 30). I am done though. Just can't trust devs not to play this shit at the last moment.I really feel sorry for those who want to use kickstarter after this. It's one thing to not deliver, it's another to take the money and then castrate the backers for any agency to how they should receive their product. Horrible. Just horrible.
It seems you are watching too much Jimquisition. It has bad games but it also has lots of good games. You can select what you want to discover. Also, no storefront is perfect, you will always need to look for new thing by yourself, talk to people, get recommendations, etc.Isn't Steam flooding their storefront with unabashed trash, completely flushing away any chance that a legitimate good indie game can be noticed without significant marketing?
My point being is that Steam also damages the industry, in some ways in a worse way than the EGS.
Yeap, I kickstarted over 20 games (closer to 30). I am done though. Just can't trust devs not to play this shit at the last moment.
For Shenmue 3, refunds have to be made available. I wonder if someone brings them to court in EU, we shall see.
Get a refund if you can, sure. They've already said refunds are not happening though, so when I say "Might as well just play the game" that's under the assumption that refunds will not be made.So, you decided to press the replay button on your messaging, hand-waving the bigger issue here which is basic consumer rights: Get what we have payed for or have our fund refunded. PERIOD.
This isn't some unknown undiscovered loophole that has only now been "exposed". This is how Kickstarter operates. When you back a project you assume the risk of fraud, failure, or under-delivery. Kickstarter does not and cannot force creators to give you a refund and they will not assume any liability for projects gone bad. Deep Silver's involvement doesn't make any difference here; whether they have a publisher or not, developers can alter or abandon projects with little recourse for backers. Kickstarter can certainly apply pressure and try to mediate disputes, but they have never been in the business of "holding developers accountable". If the money is gone the money is gone.This isn't about burning Epic or Deep Silver, clearly the backers were fucked - left, right and sideways. It's exposed a grand flaw with Kickstarter as they can no longer hold developers accountable as LONG as they are merging with another company who doesn't have to adhere to the kickstarter policies. That. is. fucked. up. And it's a shame you don't see that
I really feel sorry for those who want to use kickstarter after this. It's one thing to not deliver, it's another to take the money and then castrate the backers for any agency to how they should receive their product. Horrible. Just horrible.
Reminder of the day:
Post your complaint here if you are part of the EU
I did it against Kickstarter since they are the ones that processed the payment.
This will escalate back to ys.net
EU London address
KICKSTARTER LONDON LIMITED
5 New Street Square
London, EC4A 3TW
Get a refund if you can, sure. They've already said refunds are not happening though, so when I say "Might as well just play the game" that's under the assumption that refunds will not be made.
This isn't some unknown undiscovered loophole that has only now been "exposed". This is how Kickstarter operates. When you back a project you assume the risk of fraud, failure, or under-delivery. Kickstarter does not and cannot force creators to give you a refund and they will not assume any liability for projects gone bad. Deep Silver's involvement doesn't make any difference here; whether they have a publisher or not, developers can alter or abandon projects with little recourse for backers. Kickstarter can certainly apply pressure and try to mediate disputes, but they have never been in the business of "holding developers accountable". If the money is gone the money is gone.
Kickstarter has been around for nearly a decade and has had any number of fail profile projects tank and leave backers in the lurch. It is surprising that some people still believe they provide any measure of protection for backers. Once a creator has been handed a check you are largely at the mercy of their decisions.
Projects can't offer equity
Investment is not permitted on Kickstarter. Projects can't offer incentives like equity, revenue sharing, or investment opportunities.
I think you consistently miss the point.Kickstarter has been around for nearly a decade and has had any number of fail profile projects tank and leave backers in the lurch. It is surprising that some people still believe they provide any measure of protection for backers. Once a creator has been handed a check you are largely at the mercy of their decisions.
I recall that there was a post for Australians. Will we collect them all in the first page/post?Reminder of the day:
Post your complaint here if you are part of the EU
I did it against Kickstarter since they are the ones that processed the payment.
This will escalate back to ys.net
EU London address
KICKSTARTER LONDON LIMITED
5 New Street Square
London, EC4A 3TW
Even then, If anyone remembers shenmue, that alone will deter people from backing.Now Games on Kickstarter are gonna say "Steam only" as a selling point thanks to this.
To make dreams come true. To me, there is a romantic element to Kickstarter that I love being apart of. I'll tell a story about how a few years ago, I got burned to the tune of $600 on the Sixense STEMs kickstarter. I've been burned by some large kickstarters before, but I still believe in the system, in what it does, what it represents. Kickstarter empowers the little man to buck the traditional, overbearing system that is pervasive in every fascet of society today. Regardless of political affiliation or all that, virtually everybody is fed up with being the bottom 1% these days, and hates the complex, beurocratic system around us that governs what we can and cannot do. I have tried to do traditional funding for projects before, I have been deep in talks with traditional venture capitalists to get fundings for projects, for months and months at a time. In this world, if all you want to do is create, there is an entire system in place to crush you into obdeiance and it is honestly some soul crushing shit. Since I've been a little boy, started programming at 8 years old, all I've wanted to do is make video games, and there are millions of other people like me dreaming the same dream. Every day, for people like us, doors are closed by big entities - I see the Epic Games Store as one giant door closing in my face. Kickstarter is our savior. It's a way to tell the traditional system to take a fucking hike, to watch your neighbors and fellow man come together and donate for, to me, the purest sake of art. Yeah, lots of people are taking advantage of it. I honestly don't care, because what Kickstarter represents is greater than anything they can steal from me. Kickstarter is an alternative to a system I spend every day loathing. It feels like freedom to me.
I guess what I'm saying is I feel really sad when I read things like your opinion, even if I understand them. Despite everything that has happened regarding shenmue and even other kickstarters, I still believe, because deep down in my heart, I've always felt like this is the way the world should work. I quote this all the time, and it's silly as hell, but there is a line in a Coolio Song called The Block where he says "If hip hop didn't pay, I'd rap for free" and it's my favorite line ever. It sums up what creating games means to me. I've made small games in my free time my entire life because doing so gives me personal enjoyment, a feeling I can't describe. It feels like fulfilment. My father has encouraged me all along to merge my professional life with my passion, telling me that I'd find happiness when they became one. Kickstarter is how people like me do that without selling our souls to giant corporations.
So, not to try and force you to open your pocket book to any particular kickstarter, but if you ask me why I will continue to do so, that's my answer: to make dreams come true. I donate to kickstarters to make other people's dreams come true, in accordance with the golden rule, that when I finally take my turn to bat, others will do the same for me.
There is a poster here who also posts on the Dojo (Spaghetti) and he would keep us posted on frequent Steam updates from Ys Net. I can't remember when the last one occurred, but I feel like your scenario happened here as well. I think you read me correctly, but I know my avatar and presence in every Shenmue thread casts doubts on my purpose in this thread so I'll leave it at that.despite being "for the devs" epic has said they only deal with the publishers when it comes to these deals and it's their responsibility to talk it over with the devs
we know some devs have been caught just as off guard as fans about exclusivity announcements
with logs showing them updating steam builds even hours before when the deals had been done for weeks
edit I think I completely misread what you were going for in your post but I'm leaving this up anyway
Anything Tim Sweeney says and / or does has absolutely 0 value.Remember when Tim Sweeney told everyone MS would keep patching Windows 10 until it made Steam a buggy mess no one will use, did he just got bored of waiting and decided to try and buy out the competition instead? Also remember in that interview he said that MS new view on being open was all just PR? Isn't a Windows OS a requirement of the Epic Store but not a requirement of Steam?
Tim Sweeney sure is something...
I hope you guys get something form this mess, the whole thing is unreal*.
*EDIT: That was not an intentional pun...
no i read it the second time after my post as you saying that this might be a special case that might not fit in our normal understanding of how business works in video gamesThere is a poster here who also posts on the Dojo (Spaghetti) and he would keep us posted on frequent Steam updates from Ys Net. I can't remember when the last one occurred, but I feel like your scenario happened here as well. I think you read me correctly, but I know my avatar and presence in every Shenmue thread casts doubts on my purpose in this thread so I'll leave it at that.
Even then, If anyone remembers shenmue, that alone will deter people from backing.
despite being "for the devs" epic has said they only deal with the publishers when it comes to these deals and it's their responsibility to talk it over with the devs
we know some devs have been caught just as off guard as fans about exclusivity announcements
with logs showing them updating steam builds even hours before when the deals had been done for weeks
edit I think I completely misread what you were going for in your post but I'm leaving this up anyway
Not going to read too far back into discussions here, but yeah, the SteamDB entry was still being updated regularly as recently as the start of this month. In March, Yu said they were making adjustments for launching on Steam before the release. The very recent delay also first leaked when the date on the Steam page changed for 20-30 minutes before reverting back (begs the question why they'd change it there at all) . Cedric Biscay, the game's co-producer noted the delay was "unexpected".There is a poster here who also posts on the Dojo (Spaghetti) and he would keep us posted on frequent Steam updates from Ys Net. I can't remember when the last one occurred, but I feel like your scenario happened here as well. I think you read me correctly, but I know my avatar and presence in every Shenmue thread casts doubts on my purpose in this thread so I'll leave it at that.
You offered some vague notion that Kickstarter should "hold developers accountable," and then jeer that I wasn't able to completely guess your meaning. What specifically would you like them to do in this instance? They have no legal standing to sue and no real authority over Ys Net or Deep Silver. They can ban Ys Net from using the service for projects in the future, or issue a statement that they feel refunds should be handed out, but none of that is really punitive enough to be a deterrent in the future. A developer that is insistent on burning its backers can still do it.Missing the point seems to be your forte, so let me straighten this out for you: Future gaming projects will be affected by this. Guaranteed. And if Kickstarter hopes to ever win back the trust for aspiring developers to use their platform - this kind of indifference would eventually rule gaming out of their ecosystem.
Kickstarter is not trying to prevent creators from being bought ought. They do not want equity/stock to be sold on their own website, because then Kickstarter would have to be licensed and regulated in the same fashion as a stock broker or investment bank, undergoing all the same government oversight. That adds a ton of liability and a ton of overhead that messes up their business model. It also prevents small projects from ever being started because all the due diligence isn't worth it for projects with small goals.Guess what, turns out if you buy the fucking company that receive the funding, they managed to get said benefits that Kickstarter is trying to prevent. So why not just give that option to the backers if it will ended up going to the biggest buyer?
I am not talking about the failure of the crowdfunding campaign.I think you consistently miss the point.
But the Shenmue III Kickstarter campaign didn't fail.
Not going to read too far back into discussions here, but yeah, the SteamDB entry was still being updated regularly as recently as the start of this month. In March, Yu said they were making adjustments for launching on Steam before the release. The very recent delay also first leaked when the date on the Steam page changed for 20-30 minutes before reverting back (begs the question why they'd change it there at all) . Cedric Biscay, the game's co-producer noted the delay was "unexpected".
I dunno if there's enough to connect the dots, but I'm inclined to believe events happened quite quickly even though Shenmue III has been sat in EGS' equivalent of SteamDB/SteamSpy for a few months.
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I'd laugh if devs sent streamers EGS keys and the streamers were all "fuck that, not touching it" lolSpeaking of streamers, it's smart to send your keys to streamers who actually highlight games worth playing, instead of ones who spend their time reading the thesaurus passage for "shit" and complaining about how everything is buried under garbage.
I'd laugh if devs sent streamers EGS keys and the streamers were all "fuck that, not touching it" lol
yesIns't everything set up manually by Epic on EGS? Maybe they were in talks with Deep Silver and set the entry up before Deep Silver even talked to YSNet/Shibuya.
is that system set up? I don't honestly know if the referral stuff works as of nowA big chunk of streamers has a monetary incentive to promote EGS games.
I know it seems idealogical and perhaps a little head-in-the-clouds, but I'm guilty of this too and have no problem with it. Hell, I've barely played a few hours of either Shenmue game currently out... but I'm a massive Sega fan and I just want old IPs and such (and their legitimate fans*) to get the backing they deserve. So I know about the whole "it's not a storefront, it's a donation" thing. But this feels like it's a donation to, say, Red Cross, but only later did they say only people in a specific, less-needy area are getting their services.So, not to try and force you to open your pocket book to any particular kickstarter, but if you ask me why I will continue to do so, that's my answer: to make dreams come true. I donate to kickstarters to make other people's dreams come true, in accordance with the golden rule, that when I finally take my turn to bat, others will do the same for me.
Yup it is. And honestly I find it really tacky. Feels like a new gen of pan handling.is that system set up? I don't honestly know if the referral stuff works as of now
is that system set up? I don't honestly know if the referral stuff works as of now