-
Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
Shenmue III is timed exclusive to Epic Games Store, backers PC code redeemed on EGS & no refund (See Threadmark) [READ STAFF POSTS BEFORE POSTING]
- Thread starter vestan
- Start date
- Status
That's fair. Not every game is going to appeal to everyone and we all have different wants when it comes to games. Games that are only competitive MP turn me off full stop. Doesn't matter what the premise is or how good it looks like. The point is that labelling a game as shovelware because of the graphics or art style is just messed up. There is no need to defend if you don't like something on a personal level.
What kind of skills required?Yeah, I just remembered this:
There are so many stories like that. One I vividly remember is Hotline Miami. People were talking it up in the Steam thread waaay back when, I looked at the store page and thought "eh, it's probably another Bad Rats meme", then bought it on a whim a bit later and immediately got it.
and people in the know were well aware of Cactus, he'd made loads of great experimental games. But he was able to have a huge hit game only when he put it up on Steam. Steam has done that for a great many indie developers.
To make dreams come true. To me, there is a romantic element to Kickstarter that I love being apart of. I'll tell a story about how a few years ago, I got burned to the tune of $600 on the Sixense STEMs kickstarter. I've been burned by some large kickstarters before, but I still believe in the system, in what it does, what it represents. Kickstarter empowers the little man to buck the traditional, overbearing system that is pervasive in every fascet of society today. Regardless of political affiliation or all that, virtually everybody is fed up with being the bottom 1% these days, and hates the complex, beurocratic system around us that governs what we can and cannot do. I have tried to do traditional funding for projects before, I have been deep in talks with traditional venture capitalists to get fundings for projects, for months and months at a time. In this world, if all you want to do is create, there is an entire system in place to crush you into obdeiance and it is honestly some soul crushing shit. Since I've been a little boy, started programming at 8 years old, all I've wanted to do is make video games, and there are millions of other people like me dreaming the same dream. Every day, for people like us, doors are closed by big entities - I see the Epic Games Store as one giant door closing in my face. Kickstarter is our savior. It's a way to tell the traditional system to take a fucking hike, to watch your neighbors and fellow man come together and donate for, to me, the purest sake of art. Yeah, lots of people are taking advantage of it. I honestly don't care, because what Kickstarter represents is greater than anything they can steal from me. Kickstarter is an alternative to a system I spend every day loathing. It feels like freedom to me.
I guess what I'm saying is I feel really sad when I read things like your opinion, even if I understand them. Despite everything that has happened regarding shenmue and even other kickstarters, I still believe, because deep down in my heart, I've always felt like this is the way the world should work. I quote this all the time, and it's silly as hell, but there is a line in a Coolio Song called The Block where he says "If hip hop didn't pay, I'd rap for free" and it's my favorite line ever. It sums up what creating games means to me. I've made small games in my free time my entire life because doing so gives me personal enjoyment, a feeling I can't describe. It feels like fulfilment. My father has encouraged me all along to merge my professional life with my passion, telling me that I'd find happiness when they became one. Kickstarter is how people like me do that without selling our souls to giant corporations.
So, not to try and force you to open your pocket book to any particular kickstarter, but if you ask me why I will continue to do so, that's my answer: to make dreams come true. I donate to kickstarters to make other people's dreams come true, in accordance with the golden rule, that when I finally take my turn to bat, others will do the same for me.
i wouldn't say its the most skill demanding game, but the depth of its systems is far beyond anything most games have
its the most systems driven thing i've ever seen
I don't think the same on your reasoning, but I'm in the same position on Skatebird only because I do not want to risk giving any money to a potential future EGS game, and now Epic are expanding out and targeting things like What The Golf and Untitled Goose Game, even medium size indies aren't safe.
Then you have a dev who seems to be 50/50 on the whole Epic situation, and yep I'm out.
It's crazy how far we've come so fast that people forget where we were back in the old days. Zeboyd games is a local indie darling here, but I've been talking to those dudes for over a decade now and their rise began back in the "old days" of indie gaming. It's not like today where all indie games are on the same footing on every store. Zeboyd cut their teeth back in the XBLI days, when "indie" games were an entirely separate sub-store on the XBLA market.
That bedroom coders can be put on a virtual shelf next to games made by teams the size of small countries is a great, great thing for developers today. It wasn't always like that, and the way it is now opens so many doors that used to be closed and locked to small devs.
Will get it once it's released. Hopefully I will stay sane.
You can play it right now, its free
http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/
its coming to steam for monies just as a way to financially support the dev
Well, it's up to him to prove otherwise.
I was shocked. He was a legend for me.
I stand corrected. Thought I saw someone at QD saying the payment was necessary for them to go independent but most of that stuff goes in one ear and out the other for me because I swear that game is tactically designed to make me hate every aspect of it
Yep. Wind the clocks back to 2011 and this is where Zeboyd were
I rarely ever play this type of game, but I'm buying it when it comes to Steam just to support these devs. They sound like good folk, and I don't mind supporting developers like that.
I very much doubt that.
The thing that is draining their money are other GaaS titles and Service games. Not their own gassy titles, but their competitors. Everyone is working to make hamster wheel "forever" games, meaning that the average consumer just sticks with their one game.
The people crowdfunding games are really not part of the masses, as such I don't think that they represent a significant chunk of the game buying public.
Last edited:
I don't have anything to say but I really like this post. optimism is underappreciated.
despite being "for the devs" epic has said they only deal with the publishers when it comes to these deals and it's their responsibility to talk it over with the devs
we know some devs have been caught just as off guard as fans about exclusivity announcements
with logs showing them updating steam builds even hours before when the deals had been done for weeks
edit I think I completely misread what you were going for in your post but I'm leaving this up anyway
Yeap, I kickstarted over 20 games (closer to 30). I am done though. Just can't trust devs not to play this shit at the last moment.
For Shenmue 3, refunds have to be made available. I wonder if someone brings them to court in EU, we shall see.
It seems you are watching too much Jimquisition. It has bad games but it also has lots of good games. You can select what you want to discover. Also, no storefront is perfect, you will always need to look for new thing by yourself, talk to people, get recommendations, etc.
How ? Could you elaborate ?
Last edited:
Whatever can bring this case to justice, I'm all for it. But the reality hits hard when kickstarter has NO protections with loopholes like this. By being "acquired" by a larger company, it diminishes the point of backers money. The kickstarter funds are meant ONLY for that development that was funded - not used as a backbone to highlight your company to a sale agreement - that IS SHADY AS FUCK.
Get a refund if you can, sure. They've already said refunds are not happening though, so when I say "Might as well just play the game" that's under the assumption that refunds will not be made.
This isn't some unknown undiscovered loophole that has only now been "exposed". This is how Kickstarter operates. When you back a project you assume the risk of fraud, failure, or under-delivery. Kickstarter does not and cannot force creators to give you a refund and they will not assume any liability for projects gone bad. Deep Silver's involvement doesn't make any difference here; whether they have a publisher or not, developers can alter or abandon projects with little recourse for backers. Kickstarter can certainly apply pressure and try to mediate disputes, but they have never been in the business of "holding developers accountable". If the money is gone the money is gone.
Kickstarter has been around for nearly a decade and has had any number of fail profile projects tank and leave backers in the lurch. It is surprising that some people still believe they provide any measure of protection for backers. Once a creator has been handed a check you are largely at the mercy of their decisions.
Right.. most people are aware that there is some risk with KickStarter, but the risk should be "can they pull it off?". The risk shouldn't be will they take money from a third party, keep my money, then do whatever the hell they want.
With what? By installing EGS? It's back square-one with you guys. You sure know how to try and swing this the other way but we caught you dead center.
Missing the point seems to be your forte, so let me straighten this out for you: Future gaming projects will be affected by this. Guaranteed. And if Kickstarter hopes to ever win back the trust for aspiring developers to use their platform - this kind of indifference would eventually rule gaming out of their ecosystem. That is what this whole issue with EGS stands in the gaming industry. Destroying potential support for indie games that would never make it out the light of day.
Here's one of the "rules" they set up:
Guess what, turns out if you buy the fucking company that receive the funding, they managed to get said benefits that Kickstarter is trying to prevent. So why not just give that option to the backers if it will ended up going to the biggest buyer?
I think you consistently miss the point.
I can accept some degree of failure. Shenmue itself, as a brand, is "over-promising and under-delivering" personified. I love it anyway, not for any of the games' individual merits, but for the ambition, scope, and vision that it represents. I dropped $300 on Shenmue III with the full expectation that Lan Di would get away for another 20 years.
But the Shenmue III Kickstarter campaign didn't fail. They raked in an obscene amount of money and are going to deliver a finished product. Selling out their original backers for another paycheck, though, is a level of scumbag that is quite different from just missing the mark on development costs or deadlines. It's outright malicious.
I am not going to accept that outcome without returning fire in kind.
I recall that there was a post for Australians. Will we collect them all in the first page/post?
Even then, If anyone remembers shenmue, that alone will deter people from backing.
Now I almost assuredly have more steam games than most if not all people in this thread and with that probably more Sterling-bait trash games.
My Discovery tour is:
- Space Engine
- Hell let loose
- Doom Eternal
- OCTOPATH TRAVELER
- MORDHAU
- Cooking Simulator (streaming massive on steam atm)
- Trover (good enough for Epic)
- Planet Zoo
- コイカツ！ / Koikatsu Party (Ok, not a great example! Also it's $85 dollarydoos!)
- KurtzPel
- A Plague Tale: Innocence
- Something called Destiny 2
2nd queue had no trash either. I don't have any tags or developers blocked, no sign of any weird hentai or asset flips.
Maybe follow some of the better curators? Now, I understand curation isn't perfect on Steam, heaps of meme nonsense but I've got 40 odd curators ignored and that seems to have gotten rid of most of the noise. You get out of steam what you put in.
My Discovery tour is:
- Space Engine
- Hell let loose
- Doom Eternal
- OCTOPATH TRAVELER
- MORDHAU
- Cooking Simulator (streaming massive on steam atm)
- Trover (good enough for Epic)
- Planet Zoo
- コイカツ！ / Koikatsu Party (Ok, not a great example! Also it's $85 dollarydoos!)
- KurtzPel
- A Plague Tale: Innocence
- Something called Destiny 2
2nd queue had no trash either. I don't have any tags or developers blocked, no sign of any weird hentai or asset flips.
Maybe follow some of the better curators? Now, I understand curation isn't perfect on Steam, heaps of meme nonsense but I've got 40 odd curators ignored and that seems to have gotten rid of most of the noise. You get out of steam what you put in.
Just wanted to add, this is a great post.
I will admit to being more cynical on crowdfunding now but, you are right. If the devs come across as sincere, forthright, and it's a project I believe in... I'll back it. It's just a shame Epic and the devs that sold out their backers have poisoned the well for crowdfunding developers now. Epic is literally doing the exact opposite their hollow PR professed to do.
There is a poster here who also posts on the Dojo (Spaghetti) and he would keep us posted on frequent Steam updates from Ys Net. I can't remember when the last one occurred, but I feel like your scenario happened here as well. I think you read me correctly, but I know my avatar and presence in every Shenmue thread casts doubts on my purpose in this thread so I'll leave it at that.
Anything Tim Sweeney says and / or does has absolutely 0 value.
no i read it the second time after my post as you saying that this might be a special case that might not fit in our normal understanding of how business works in video games
between rights from one company, Kickstarter funds, Sony marketing money (I think?), and then deep silver coming in later for some publishing duties (but not whatever fangamer is doing maybe) who the hell knows who's doing what
Exactly. I don't trust any dev's word on committing to Steam. To be honest, I wouldn't put it past Epic to specifically target those devs to try and grab up as many detractors as possible, and everyone has a price. They need to make inroads with the PC community, and they can't do that unless they force the staunchest hold outs to convert.
Not going to read too far back into discussions here, but yeah, the SteamDB entry was still being updated regularly as recently as the start of this month. In March, Yu said they were making adjustments for launching on Steam before the release. The very recent delay also first leaked when the date on the Steam page changed for 20-30 minutes before reverting back (begs the question why they'd change it there at all) . Cedric Biscay, the game's co-producer noted the delay was "unexpected".
I dunno if there's enough to connect the dots, but I'm inclined to believe events happened quite quickly even though Shenmue III has been sat in EGS' equivalent of SteamDB/SteamSpy for a few months.
You offered some vague notion that Kickstarter should "hold developers accountable," and then jeer that I wasn't able to completely guess your meaning. What specifically would you like them to do in this instance? They have no legal standing to sue and no real authority over Ys Net or Deep Silver. They can ban Ys Net from using the service for projects in the future, or issue a statement that they feel refunds should be handed out, but none of that is really punitive enough to be a deterrent in the future. A developer that is insistent on burning its backers can still do it.
Kickstarter is not trying to prevent creators from being bought ought. They do not want equity/stock to be sold on their own website, because then Kickstarter would have to be licensed and regulated in the same fashion as a stock broker or investment bank, undergoing all the same government oversight. That adds a ton of liability and a ton of overhead that messes up their business model. It also prevents small projects from ever being started because all the due diligence isn't worth it for projects with small goals.
I'm not sure why this is relevant to Shenmue 3 though. Deep Silver hasn't bought Ys Net. Fig offers equity in their game crowdfunding, but to my knowledge developers aren't selling enough of it to give backers a controlling interest collectively. Large decisions like distribution platforms would probably still be the domain of company executives. Equity for the backers here would also seriously complicate things in a situation like this too, because if switching to Epic represents the biggest ROI then management is then kinda obligated to make that move -- the best decision for investors might not be making a product in the way the backers wanted, so it creates a rather weird conflict.
I am not talking about the failure of the crowdfunding campaign.
I am talking about the failure of the projects themselves -- failure to either deliver a product as promised or failure to deliver any kind of product at all. Kickstarter offers really no protection or assurance against that.
Last edited:
Ins't everything set up manually by Epic on EGS? Maybe they were in talks with Deep Silver and set the entry up before Deep Silver even talked to YSNet/Shibuya.
I'd laugh if devs sent streamers EGS keys and the streamers were all "fuck that, not touching it" lol
A big chunk of streamers has a monetary incentive to promote EGS games.
yes
i spent five minutes looking for the tweet saying such but then gave up
is that system set up? I don't honestly know if the referral stuff works as of now
I know it seems idealogical and perhaps a little head-in-the-clouds, but I'm guilty of this too and have no problem with it. Hell, I've barely played a few hours of either Shenmue game currently out... but I'm a massive Sega fan and I just want old IPs and such (and their legitimate fans*) to get the backing they deserve. So I know about the whole "it's not a storefront, it's a donation" thing. But this feels like it's a donation to, say, Red Cross, but only later did they say only people in a specific, less-needy area are getting their services.
*I'd be lying if I didn't say this video didn't sell me on backing the KS. And I know that's what you were referring to when saying "to make dreams come true". BTW looks like Skatebird has achieved basic funding, and I think I'll back it as well :) Shame that Untitled Goose Game is exclusive to EGS though, there's a big audience they'd be missing out on on Steam.
Yup it is. And honestly I find it really tacky. Feels like a new gen of pan handling.
- Status