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Shenmue III is timed exclusive to Epic Games Store, backers PC code redeemed on EGS & no refund (See Threadmark) [READ STAFF POSTS BEFORE POSTING]

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MrCunningham

MrCunningham

Banned
Nov 15, 2017
1,372
Shaneus said:
Happy you're not mad. Plenty of people are though for reasons that are more drawn out than just "the developers wanting to wring out more money". Read the room.
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Yeah I get it, and those people aren't wrong. But with the way Kickstarters terms of service is, it allowed people at DeepSilver to take advantage of the vague KS guidelines and just hand off EGS keys to backers instead Steamkeys .

Hoeg Law covers this really well (thanks EZA):




I'm a bit mad because of the lack of Proton support, myself. YsNet never announced a Linux port, even though the game runs on Unreal 4. So Proton seemed like a good "one click" install option. But I can see some of the other complaints, like the lack of Steam store features. Things like potential VR support or the Steam workshop. Did they say anywhere that they will be giving backers Steam keys? Or does everyone have to wait a year after the time exclusivity ends?

Either way, I could still try running the EGS version on Lutris, or just play it on Windows. I personally don't care that much, but I do get it when other people do.
 
Shaneus

Shaneus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,896
MrCunningham said:
Yeah I get it, and those people aren't wrong. But with the way Kickstarters terms of service is, it allowed people at DeepSilver to take advantage of the vague KS guidelines and just hand off EGS keys to backers instead Steamkeys .
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You've completely overlooked the physical copies though. They've been replaced by keys, something that only seemed to happen with the sudden cutover to EGS.


Edit: Anyone provide a direct link to that stream?
 

Deleted member 12790

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Oct 27, 2017
24,537
dex3108 said:
I don't know who this is or if it is credible but here it is
Mod Edit: We do not provide a platform for TheQuartering or their content here
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This:

Mod Edit: We do not provide a platform for TheQuartering or their content here

tells me I don't need to be paying attention to this guy
 
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dex3108

dex3108

Member
Oct 26, 2017
22,571
As I said I have no idea who that is, I just copied tweet that popped up on my timeline when AngryJoe replied to it.
 
Dreamwriter

Dreamwriter

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,461
Shaneus said:
You've completely overlooked the physical copies though. They've been replaced by keys, something that only seemed to happen with the sudden cutover to EGS.
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A question - where did this news come from? I mean, the email on the 10th (update 102) still says that a DVD drive is required for the physical version. And there's a tweet talking about the physical copies where they also get a code for the Epic Games Store in it. So from what I can tell the physical copy still fully exists, as of 3 days ago.
 
BringBackSonics

BringBackSonics

Member
Oct 27, 2017
45,027
Seattle
dex3108 said:
I don't know who this is or if it is credible but here it is

Mod Edit: We do not provide a platform for TheQuartering or their content here
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I've been hesitant to post many of these accounts thoughts, because several of the problematic youtubers are supporting the backers of this against deep silver and egs
 
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MrCunningham

MrCunningham

Banned
Nov 15, 2017
1,372
Shaneus said:
You've completely overlooked the physical copies though. They've been replaced by keys, something that only seemed to happen with the sudden cutover to EGS.
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Are they just giving away empty boxes with keys inside of them? Or did they drop the physical boxes altogether? I never backed for a physical copy and just went for digital.
 
Maximo

Maximo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,159
dex3108 said:
I don't know who this is or if it is credible but here it is
Mod Edit: We do not provide a platform for TheQuartering or their content here
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TheQuartering is a absoulte human piece of shit, harassed and doxed women with his article being published in Breitbart...just a heads up for people I would avoid giving him any clicks or views.
 
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Arthands

Arthands

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
8,039
Suzuki Yu said:
i don't like this either but it's true that they never promised a STEAM ver until maybe two to three years since the Kickstarter campaign ended. (i don't quite remember when exactly but definitely years after development started)
most Backer supported the project before it was ever known where it would land on PC.
very few supported the project after it was confirmed as a STEAM release... at least they should do something for those people.
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I have no idea why people insist to get themselves ban for lying in order to defend something, when there's damning evidences around and the mods have already warn not to revise history.
 
dex3108

dex3108

Member
Oct 26, 2017
22,571
morningbus said:
People, people


To be clear here: this isn't an excuse. This is literally how lies and misinformation is spread.
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I said that I don't know how credible it is because I didn't do background check because it was 06:30 in the morning and I was just checking Twitter during breakfast. And only reason I posted it is because AngryJoe replied to that tweet.
 
Border

Border

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,859
I think Kickstarter's perspective is that they don't want to start coming down hard on creators whose final products are mildy-to-moderately different from what was initially detailed in the crowdfunding campaign. It's an important part of their platform that creators be able to deviate from the plan as their resources and ability dictates. You can't hold people accountable for every unforeseen change or alteration. The details of a project chronicled in a campaign are not meant to be seen as irrevocable solemn promises, but just an outline of what the creators hope to achieve.

Shenmue 3 was "promised" to be delivered to backers in December 2017. Should I be able to request a refund just on the basis that the game is nearly 2 years late?

Moreover, there's the problem that Kickstarter can't really do a lot to hold creators accountable. Even if Ys Net is found in violation of Kickstarters's terms of service, they can't be forced to issue refunds or offer Steam Keys. The best that Kickstarter can do is punish them by freezing/banning/deleting their Kickstarter account, which may be justified but won't really help the thousands of people who feel shafted by their decisions.
 
PepsimanVsJoe

PepsimanVsJoe

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,120
AngryJoe doesn't keep the greatest of company.
Then again, the same could be said of all youtubers/streamers. Even if they're not an asshole, 9 times out of 10 they converse with someone who is.
 
morningbus

morningbus

Member
Oct 31, 2017
1,044
dex3108 said:
I said that I don't know how credible it is because I didn't do background check because it was 06:30 in the morning and I was just checking Twitter during breakfast. And only reason I posted it is because AngryJoe replied to that tweet.
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Understood. People do this because they have good intentions.

But not everything is worth sharing and that tweet isn't worth keeping up after you've been told he's an alt-right shithead.
 
Pixieking

Pixieking

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Oct 25, 2017
5,956
BringBackSonics said:
I've been hesitant to post many of these accounts thoughts, because several of the problematic youtubers are supporting the backers of this against deep silver and egs
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Yeah, this could easily turn into another GG-esque situation, in the sense that the alt-right could use the cover of "consumer rights" to bring easily swayed gamers into the fold. Troubling times.
 
Shaneus

Shaneus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,896
Dreamwriter said:
A question - where did this news come from? I mean, the email on the 10th (update 102) still says that a DVD drive is required for the physical version. And there's a tweet talking about the physical copies where they also get a code for the Epic Games Store in it. So from what I can tell the physical copy still fully exists, as of 3 days ago.
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Shaneus said:
g4eRCx6.png

THIS IS NOT A PHYSICAL COPY

On this alone they should be getting raked over the coals, even for those handwaving the "different storefront, what's the big dealio?" scenario.
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From the FAQ here:

MrCunningham said:
Are they just giving away empty boxes with keys inside of them? Or did they drop the physical boxes altogether? I never backed for a physical copy and just went for digital.
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Empty boxes I would guess? Otherwise there's no physical anything at all.
 
Dreamwriter

Dreamwriter

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,461
Shaneus said:
From the FAQ here:


Empty boxes I would guess? Otherwise there's no physical anything at all.
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Yeah, that's the tweet I was talking about. People who ordered the physical copy now get a digital key for the Epic Games Store in addition to the discs, instead of a Steam key. Doesn't say they are canceling the disc or anything else, and in fact the newly updated system requirements posted on Monday specifically mention requiring a DVD drive for the physical edition.

Kickstarter Campaign said:
Minimum:

OS: Windows 7x64, Windows 8x64, Windows 10x64 (64-bit OS Required)
Processor: Intel Core i5-4460 (3.40 GHz) or better; Quad-core or better
Memory: 4 GB RAM
Graphics: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 650 Ti or better (DirectX 11 card & VRAM 2GB Required)
DirectX: Version 11
Network: Broadband internet connection
Storage: 100 GB available space
Sound card: DirectX 9.0c compatible sound card
DVD Drive: Required (if you buy the physical copy)
Additional Info: Requires Epic Games Store Client to activate.

Recommended:
OS: Windows 10 (64-bit OS Required)
Processor: Intel Core i7-7700 (3.60 GHz)
Memory: 16GB RAM
Graphics: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1070
DirectX: Version 11
Network: Broadband internet connection
Storage: 100 GB available space
Sound card: DirectX 9.0c compatible sound card
DVD Drive: Required (if you buy the physical copy)
Additional Info: Requires Epic Games Store Client to activate.
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Border

Border

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,859
Already posted earlier, but a lawyer weighs in on Shenmue 3 Backers VERSUS Deep Silver & Ys Net:



I don't recommend watching the full 27 minute video since it goes into excruciating and minute details that you probably already know.

TLDW: There isn't enough evidence here to go after the developers, at least in the United States.

The relevant quotes would be:

"You can tell all your friends on ResetEra and Reddit and Tumblr....to make a stink, to make it so unpalatable for Ys Net and Deep Silver to keep your money that they give it to you because they have to to make the press go away. But legally you probably don't have a claim to bring in court, you probably don't want to make that claim because of the language that you agreed to in this contract with Kickstarter."

"Quite frankly, the difference between a Steam store application and an Epic Games Store application is, in my opinion, never going to rise to the level that Kickstarter would get involved with certainly. But it is also never going to rise to the level that if a court were to just look at those Terms & Conditions, evaluate them from a perfectly reasonable third party perspective, say that the creator wasn't meeting their obligations under those Terms and Conditions. That's the way I see it...."

Interestingly enough, he seems to think that the 2012-2014 Kickstarter Terms & Conditions might have provided backers some greater level of protection and recourse, but those terms do not apply to the Shenmue 3 Kickstarter (which launched in June 2015).
 
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Bowl0l

Bowl0l

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Oct 27, 2017
4,608
Border said:
Already posted earlier, but a lawyer weighs in on Shenmue 3 Backers VERSUS Deep Silver & Ys Net:



I don't recommend watching the full 27 minute video since it goes into excruciating and minute details that you probably already know.

TLDW: There isn't enough evidence here to go after the developers, at least in the United States.

The relevant quotes would be:

"You can tell all your friends on ResetEra and Reddit and Tumblr....to make a stink, to make it so unpalatable for Ys Net and Deep Silver to keep your money that they give it to you because they have to to make the press go away. But legally you probably don't have a claim to bring in court, you probably don't want to make that claim because of the language that you agreed to in this contract with Kickstarter."

"Quite frankly, the difference between a Steam store application and an Epic Games Store application is, in my opinion, never going to rise to the level that Kickstarter would get involved with certainly. But it is also never going to rise to the level that if a court were to just look at those Terms & Conditions, evaluate them from a perfectly reasonable third party perspective, say that the creator wasn't meeting their obligations under those Terms and Conditions. That's the way I see it...."

Interestingly enough, he seems to think that the 2012-2014 Kickstarter Terms & Conditions might have provided backers some greater level of protection and recourse, but those terms do not apply to the Shenmue 3 Kickstarter (which launched in June 2015).
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Things might change. Although I doubt it will be as Epic as countries writing laws against loot boxes.
 
KingSnake

KingSnake

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Oct 25, 2017
17,982
If Kickstarter's TOS doesn't provide enough protection for the people who pledge money, Kickstarter will slowly die, at least for games.
 
Maxime

Maxime

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Oct 27, 2017
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Umbrella Carp

Umbrella Carp

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Jan 16, 2019
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Hello Everyone,



We want to make sure that the Backers are aware that we are listening to their concerns. We kindly ask all our fans to have some patience, we are currently at E3 demoing the game and need to get back to our respective offices to assess the situation and together find a way forward to justify the trust you placed in us.



Thank you for your patience and support.
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They're beginning to feel the pinch
 
Multiverse Moo

Multiverse Moo

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Oct 25, 2017
4,426
Silicon Valley
Umbrella Carp said:

They're beginning to feel the pinch
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To be honest, not only was it just Yu Suzuki's birthday but they are indeed at E3, so while many of us are upset it's not like they can come to a solution of how to deal with this until they can regroup at their office and get on the same page about why everyone is losing their shit.

I'm not excusing them going EGS and saying its the best / most fun way to do the PC delivery, nor suggesting their responses so far aren't total BS.

However, if I were at E3 this year I wouldn't have bombarded Yu himself with EGS BS and would have instead asked if I was in an interview setting with Deep Silver, or reach out to people like jschreier to ask if they could please follow this story and make some noise since I know they care about issues like this.
 
True Prophecy

True Prophecy

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Oct 28, 2017
1,921
MultiverseMob said:
To be honest, not only was it just Yu Suzuki's birthday but they are indeed at E3, so while many of us are upset it's not like they can come to a solution of how to deal with this until they can regroup at their office and get on the same page about why everyone is losing their shit.

I'm not excusing them going EGS and saying its the best / most fun way to do the PC delivery, nor suggesting their responses so far aren't total BS.

However, if I were at E3 this year I wouldn't have bombarded Yu himself with EGS BS and would have instead asked if I was in an interview setting with Deep Silver, or reach out to people like jschreier to ask if they could please follow this story and make some noise since I know they care about issues like this.
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Unfortunately Jason has no interest or care about the EGS drama.

He is one of those it's not a big deal types in this one.

Good to see the Dev respond.
 
Hucast

Hucast

alt account
Banned
Mar 25, 2019
3,598
I will celebrate if we backers end up getting steam keys.

There's zero benefit to force backers to EGS imo. Attracting is one thing, but forcing just pisses people off. Yu suzuki already had gotten the money from us so it's not like it is about money splits either. It's all just those at epic being petty douchebags.

How they cant just attract consumers by just offering quality and their own exclusive games is just beyond me.

Microsoft with their new beta store is doing exactly what epic should have been doing from the start.
 
raptrious

raptrious

Alt Account
Banned
Jun 10, 2019
34
I just looked at my fangamer survey for backers and I have changed my platform choice to ps4 hope to god this will work.
 
olag

olag

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Oct 28, 2017
2,106
MultiverseMob said:
To be honest, not only was it just Yu Suzuki's birthday but they are indeed at E3, so while many of us are upset it's not like they can come to a solution of how to deal with this until they can regroup at their office and get on the same page about why everyone is losing their shit.

I'm not excusing them going EGS and saying its the best / most fun way to do the PC delivery, nor suggesting their responses so far aren't total BS.

However, if I were at E3 this year I wouldn't have bombarded Yu himself with EGS BS and would have instead asked if I was in an interview setting with Deep Silver, or reach out to people like jschreier to ask if they could please follow this story and make some noise since I know they care about issues like this.
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Similar to micro transactions, most journalist will stay quiet or drag their feet when reporting on EGS because its viewed as a plus for developers.
 
Zafir

Zafir

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,005
Nice that they finally responded but I dunno how hopeful I am.

The solution I'd want is them to just give the Steam keys they offered when it releases since it's not like I want to refund my money if I don't have to but I'm just not sure I see that happening.
 
Shaneus

Shaneus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,896
That's good the developer has actively commented on it now, hopefully it should be addressed soon. I wouldn't be upset with a refund, but this should never have happened in the first place.
 
Fishsnot

Fishsnot

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,967
Japan
Not sure if this will help but it was posted on Reddit.
Apparently doing this will get you banned from Kickstarter (not sure that constitutes as a bad thing?) but it might be worth a shot?

p8ngepw61s331.png
 
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