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Shenmue Is The Waterworld Of Videogames (The Jimquisition)

residentgrigo

Member
Oct 30, 2019
542
Germany
nachum00 Shenmue 1 is a graphics demo with 20 to 30-minute worth of bad story. Nothing to like or appreciate with that one in even 1999 outside of the rare songs and how it looks. Shenmue 2 is, and I said it multiple times by now, "fine". I finished it once over a decade ago and got all the achievements in the HD version in 2018. I am somehow one of the biggest... whatever you want to call me of the series when it comes to people who play games in 2019. Jim went over the sale figures of the 2nd game and the fanbase hardly grew over the years.

Deadly Premonition is much closer to Mizzurna Falls on the PSX from 1998. Games that are actually like Shenmue are near nonexistent. Even Yakuza isn´t all that much like Shenmue. A true dead end of gaming evolution. It´s one of the reasons there was enough material for the Jimquesition.
 
Oct 30, 2017
2,017
nachum00 Shenmue 1 is a graphics demo with 20 to 30-minute worth of bad story. Nothing to like or appreciate with that one in even 1999 outside of the rare songs and how it looks. Shenmue 2 is, and I said it multiple times by now, "fine". I finished it once over a decade ago and got all the achievements in the HD version in 2018. I am somehow one of the biggest... whatever you want to call me of the series when it comes to people who play games in 2019. Jim went over the sale figures of the 2nd game and the fanbase hardly grew over the years.

Deadly Premonition is much closer to Mizzurna Falls on the PSX from 1998. Games that are actually like Shenmue are near nonexistent. Even Yakuza isn´t all that much like Shenmue. A true dead for gaming evolution.
Nothing to like or appreciate, yet 15 years later the third game broke world records for crowdfunding because thousands of people disagreed with you. Stop crossing your subjective opinion with fact. It’s really insulting.
 

Acquiescence

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,533
Lake Titicaca
I love Shenmue to bits but thought Deadly Premonition was utterly fucking awful. I might have been able to like the game despite its myriad of shortcomings if it was able to sustain the off-kilter yet humorous tone of its first half. It doesn't though. In fact it commits the cardinal sin of beginning to take its own story rather seriously while conversely becoming progressively more outlandish and ridiculous with it's revelations and boss battles, and in the end you just end with this weird tug of war between earnestness and stupidity.

But hey, everybody's different. If DP2 flops then I'm not going to make a thread mocking its fans about it, because I'm not a complete asshole.
 

dan2026

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,337
I think the problem with Shenmue is that it didn't evolve.
It came back exactly how it was in the Dreamcast era.
And all the things it pioneered have been taken an improved massively since then, so now Shenmue seem like a odd relic of the past.
 

residentgrigo

Member
Oct 30, 2019
542
Germany
It´s a "fact" that I never liked Shenmue 1. Nothing subjective about it bell wood's jet cola.

I always suspected that Shenmue fans were a calm bunch due to it being a niche adventure game, the period setting and the EZA love. This board taught me otherwise. I take it back. No Shenmue 4 for you.
 

ianpm31

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,652
I love Shenmue to bits but thought Deadly Premonition was utterly fucking awful. I might have been able to like the game despite its myriad of shortcomings if it was able to sustain the off-kilter yet humorous tone of its first half. It doesn't though. In fact it commits the cardinal sin of beginning to take its own story rather seriously while conversely becoming progressively more outlandish and ridiculous with it's revelations and boss battles, and in the end you just end with this weird tug of war between earnestness and stupidity.

But hey, everybody's different. If DP2 flops then I'm not going to make a thread mocking its fans about it, because I'm not a complete asshole.
Trust me DP2 won't sell 18k first week in Japan. Bank on that but you're right nobody is going to mock the game for it.
 

ValKiryuSonicEX

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
1,133
I think the problem with Shenmue is that it didn't evolve.
It came back exactly how it was in the Dreamcast era.
And all the things it pioneered have been taken an improved massively since then, so now Shenmue seem like a odd relic of the past.
I don't think many thought 3 was going to break any grounds, especially with the nature of the series on a kickstarter budget, you can only do so much on limited resources.
 

dan2026

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,337
I don't think many thought 3 was going to break any grounds, especially the nature of the series on a kickstarter budget, you can only do so much on limited resources.
I don't think a $12 million budget is particularly limited.
Yes its not stupid EA level money but is vastly more than many indie games have to play with.

Anyway I think the problem was trying to make Shenmue exactly what it was, instead of using the money wisely and making something new and interesting.
 

residentgrigo

Member
Oct 30, 2019
542
Germany
Deadly Premonition´s Japanese fanbase in nonexistent to my knowledge ianpm31. The same goes for Europe. The series even officially changed the name from Red Seeds Profile to DP on the Switch in Japan. You Americans made the original a niche "hit". Thx. So Says Mr. Stewart.
Deadly Premonition 2! To think that I would ever see the day. I wonder if it will compete for my GOTY in 2020. The first was a top 5 game back in 2010.
 
Oct 30, 2017
2,017
We had open world games in the 80s on PC. Check out Starflight or the Ultima games.
Yu Suzuki cites Ultima & Wizardry as an influence on Shenmue. I think he's being credited with popularizing open world games on consoles, not outright creating the concept of virtual worlds. He didn't create racing games or shoot-'em-ups either, but Out Run and Afterburner had a profound effect on those genres.
 
Nov 2, 2017
2,397
Punching down on a game published by THQ Nordic (Deep Silver). That’s a take.
I mean, what's more popular these days? Jim or Shenmue? Deep Silver certainly publised it, but I don't really follow how that arbitrarily makes Shenmue a massive thing other than "bad corporation bad" (which otherwise I agree with).

Anyways, the point was more that I get it, Jim doesn't like Shenmue. Repeatedly trying to objectify why it's bad and show it as a flop is a bleh topic imo.
 

ianpm31

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,652
Deadly Premonition´s Japanese fanbase in nonexistent to my knowledge ianpm31. The same goes for Europe. You American´s made the original a niche "hit". Thx. Deadly Premonition 2! To think that I would ever see the day. I wonder if it will compete for my GOTY in 2020. The first was a top 5 game back in 2010.
I'm happy we got DP2. I like the first game. Even purchased it on the eshop to show support. For thread purposes I'll still never understand why somebody gets a hard-on for shitting on a niche series . It serves no purpose.
 

shadowman16

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,882
I don't think a $12 million budget is particularly limited.
Yes its not stupid EA level money but is vastly more than many indie games have to play with.

Anyway I think the problem was trying to make Shenmue exactly what it was, instead of using the money wisely and making something new and interesting.
But fans of the game (the ones that were asking for the sequel for 18 years, and funded it on KS) basically wanted Shenmue exactly as it was. Personally I couldn't be happier with how the game turned out when you look at the budget on the game when you consider just what Shenmue is (a large adventure game, fully voiced with over 100 NPCs that get ever changing dialogue depending on the point of the game, lots of mini games, fully fleshed out combat system, two large town/city areas to explore)... Then again I never expected the game to sell all that well anyway, because aside from the fans of the series, its not like they'd be attracting new people to the series by keeping it the same. But its a double edged sword, changing it too much would only upset old fans with no guarantees of bringing in the new fans.
 

TSM

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,001
Yu Suzuki cites Ultima & Wizardry as an influence on Shenmue. I think he's being credited with popularizing open world games on consoles, not outright creating the concept of virtual worlds. He didn't create racing games or shoot-'em-ups either, but Out Run and Afterburner had a profound effect on those genres.
I don't see how Rockstar doesn't get that credit with the GTA games. GTA III is the big one that really popularized open world on console.
 

Raoh

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,271
it's funny, he praised Fist of the North Star Lost Paradise so much, he even included it on his GOTY list games, and I love that game too, I can see why anyone would like it, yet Shenmue 3 is a beautiful game and shares similarities to the type of game that FOTNS:LP is, You train, you fight, you have jobs and you have mini game activities and also an arcade, and he just can't give the Shenmue series a break. He also lousily reviewed Shenmue HD.
 

dan2026

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,337
But fans of the game (the ones that were asking for the sequel for 18 years, and funded it on KS) basically wanted Shenmue exactly as it was. Personally I couldn't be happier with how the game turned out when you look at the budget on the game when you consider just what Shenmue is (a large adventure game, fully voiced with over 100 NPCs that get ever changing dialogue depending on the point of the game, lots of mini games, fully fleshed out combat system, two large town/city areas to explore)... Then again I never expected the game to sell all that well anyway, because aside from the fans of the series, its not like they'd be attracting new people to the series by keeping it the same. But its a double edged sword, changing it too much would only upset old fans with no guarantees of bringing in the new fans.
Yeah I guess you are right.
I am surprised that the game apparantly doesn't end the strory though.
Does he really expect to make another one?
 

Red Liquorice

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,686
UK
Like he says, the original game had some impressive elements for the time, but it has aged terribly. The limited amount of things you can do in Shenmue's "open" world has been superseded many times over, if the third game is just more of the same and hasn't moved on, it's wildly out of step with modern gaming open worlds. I've seen reviews that state it plays like a Dreamcast game that never was, which maybe goes a long way to explain low sales, but hey it has a core fanbase who seem to have got exactly what they wanted, so they're happy.
 

Garlador

Member
Oct 30, 2017
7,630
We had open world games in the 80s on PC. Check out Starflight or the Ultima games.
I think there's a big difference between the old games and what Shenmue popularized. There were "big world" games in Starlfight and Ultimate (and many others), but they're not aiming to do what Shenmue brought to the table.

Not that these don't have their merits...


But Shenmue created a template for modern living world games that's felt in countless current games.
 

LossAversion

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,905
I stopped watching Jim a while ago for my own sanity. It's exhausting being so negative all the time. Talking about microtransactions and anti-consumer stuff is one thing but this just seems like a really spiteful and unnecessary video. Shenmue clearly has its fans and they wanted this game to happen. Just say you don't like the game and move on. This is just negativity for the sake of it.
 

♡♪!?

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,991
It´s a "fact" that I never liked Shenmue 1. Nothing subjective about it bell wood's jet cola.

I always suspected that Shenmue fans were a calm bunch due to it being a niche adventure game, the period setting and the EZA love. This board taught me otherwise. I take it back. No Shenmue 4 for you.
I think Shenmue fans are usually quite friendly but this was a bit of a sore spot because 3 has gone down quite well the community, they may have not got the ideal Shenmue 3, but they got an entertaining product for them. A big name personality criticising Yu Suzki for making a flop series, and everyone knows the series is a big flop... so it's just "duh"? That's why it feels like an underdog series. It's not very insightful criticising Yu Suzuki for maybe mismanaging the money, 20 years ago and making a big dreamcast flop, it just seems a bit petty. Yu Suzuki comes across very well in interviews and humble, so what if he bombed 20 years ago with argualy the most expensive video game? It's nice Shenmue fans still got something positive from it all, even in 2019.
 

residentgrigo

Member
Oct 30, 2019
542
Germany
ianpm31 Shenmue 1 is the very opposite of niche. It got cursed with the Dreamcast but it was easily the GTA V of its day. The whole video is a history lesson in hubris and a fairly important one. Younger games deserve to know The Tragedy of Darth Suzuki The Wise. The interest, here and elsewhere, in the video and the near nonexistence of downvotes clearly shows that Jim got a point and an audience. His Waterworld comparison is correct but I will again repeat that Waterworld made money. Video and TV rights saved it. Shenmue is still a net loss and by a wide margin.

There are modern-ish feeling open-world console/PC games that are older or as old as Shenmue 1 Era. Ultima VII: The Black Gate 1992, Thief: The Dark Project (kinda) 1998, Mizzurna Falls 1998, Ocarina of Time (kinda) 1998, GTA 1997, Fallout 1 1997, Elder Scrolls II: Daggerfall 1996, Deus Ex 2000, etc.
Shenmue has a highly important place in gaming history but it weirdly failed to evolve anything. That´s one of the main reasons why people are still so obsessed with the Dreamcast games.
Edit: Added a few more.
 
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TSM

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,001
I think there's a big difference between the old games and what Shenmue popularized. There were "big world" games in Starlfight and Ultimate (and many others), but they're not aiming to do what Shenmue brought to the table.

Not that these don't have their merits...


But Shenmue created a template for modern living world games that's felt in countless current games.
Then you aren't talking about open world games. You are talking about atmosphere in open world games. I think you underestimate how ground breaking the Ultima games were though.

Also in Starflight there were hundreds of planets that were each large and different. There was an entire galaxy to explore.
 

♡♪!?

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,991
ianpm31 Shenmue 1 is the very opposite of niche. It got cursed with the Dreamcast but it was easily the GTA V of its day. The whole video is a history lesson in hubris and a fairly important one. Younger games deserve to know The Tragedy of Darth Suzuki The Wise. The interest, here and elsewhere, in the video and the near nonexistence of downvotes clearly shows that Jim got a point and an audience. His Waterworld comparison is correct but I will again repeat that Waterworld made money. Video and TV rights saved it. Shenmue is still a net loss and by a wide margin.

There are console/PC games that are older or as old than Shenmue 1. Mizzurna Falls 1998, GTA 1 1997, Deus Ex 200, etc.
I don't know what can be said about Shenmue flopping that we don't already know. Jim acts like he's the first person to share this.
 
Oct 30, 2017
2,017

Yu Suzuki definitely cites both Ultima and Wizardry as influences, so it's not like he's presenting his game as something it isn't.

Q: By the way, did you study other RPGs?

YS
: Of course, it’s not like I didn’t play any at all. But I can’t keep playing for very long. [Smiles wryly] Also, I wanted to make Shenmue a legitimate evolution, in my own way, of games like Wizardry and Ultima, which I had seen in the lab when I was at college.

Q: Recently, I saw an interview with Shukan Shonen Magazine which talked about Dragon Quest. It stated that similar RPGs of the day had served as reference, and called it “a clever reconstitution of elements that had been carefully selected for their popularity with the Japanese”.

YS
: Yes. They nicely took out the tiresome and cumbersome parts and extracted only the really fun parts. But for me, I felt that evolution along the lines of something like Shenmue, putting aside the question of whether it is open-world or not, might be possible.

Q: Looking at what happened with games after that, despite RPGs becoming a huge genre within Japan itself, they failed to take off overseas. On the other hand, games overseas clearly moved in this direction, and now they have become a global business that is in a league of its own. But sales in Japan of Shenmue itself were less than stellar...

YS
: There are occasionally people who say “Sega went downhill because of Shenmue”. But in the year of Shenmue’s release, games like Virtua Fighter 4 were also released, so I think Sega came out positive in terms of stand-alone profit. [laughs]

I don’t think there's ever been even a single year where I generated a loss for Sega.
 

ianpm31

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,652
I don't know what can be said about Shenmue flopping that we don't already know. Jim acts like he's the first person to share this.
Seems like Jim is behind the times. He barely just discovered the Yakuza series with Zero so it was the west's new cool kid on the block even though the series has been around since 2005. So he became a fan of the series recently and heard along the way it's origins were from Shenmue. Proceeded to check it out and let all his fans know how he feels about it and regurgitate old news and falsehoods. That would be my guess
 

♡♪!?

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,991
I think the problem with Shenmue is that it didn't evolve.
It came back exactly how it was in the Dreamcast era.
And all the things it pioneered have been taken an improved massively since then, so now Shenmue seem like a odd relic of the past.
The funny thing is, the attempts to evolve the series made 3 worse. The stamina meter and more stats based game play affect the pacing. It's not a bad game overall in my opinion because it has a such a pleasant world to partake in, but 2 I would prefer playing and I still can enjoy it among modern games, (and lol turning off the English dub)
 

Garlador

Member
Oct 30, 2017
7,630
Then you aren't talking about open world games. You are talking about atmosphere in open world games. I think you underestimate how ground breaking the Ultima games were though.
Again, completely different focus, as well as impact. You could even bring up 1976 text adventure game Colossal Cave Adventure.

It's like asking which was more influential - Body Harvest or Grand Theft Auto 3? Obviously GTA3, even though that team tested out all the gameplay innovations GTA3 did years earlier on Body Harvest. Which is considered the more influential survival horror game - Alone in the Dark or Resident Evil? Yes, Alone in the Dark came first, but Resident Evil popularized and refined all those elements.

Shenmue's attempt to create a functioning 3-dimensional open-world environment with individually unique NPC faces, day and night cycles and store schedules, hundreds of pointless interactive elements and doors that didn't seal you off but let you in (even if nothing was there), dozens of side diversions and minigames, actual arcade games in the in-game arcade, and even recreating the actual historical weather from 1986 for each exact day (seriously?!), Shenmue still remains one of the greatest examples of bringing a world to life.

Though perhaps 1Up's description of Shenmue as the world's first "open-city simulator" might gel with you more.
 

residentgrigo

Member
Oct 30, 2019
542
Germany
Do you honestly think that his audience needs to scour the web for badly archived pages to find out why Shenmue is important even today ♡♪!?. People still review Star Wars IV-VI and write books about them despite all having been said about them that can be said. Someone needs to make a digestible summary for the next few years, might as well be Jim. Some else will follow thereafter and thereafter and... That´s the curse with digital resources. They fade faster than you think and Shenmue 3 is like 2 weeks old. No better time than now to reassess one of gaming´s biggest failures.
 

The Albatross

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,646
i think the comparison to Waterworld is pretty fair comparison. It's not necessarily a bad thing. Where Jim is wrong though is that Waterworld didn't really do anything new; like, Waterworld was a pretty dull movie, not a bad one, but it introduced almost nothing new to films... "The Kevin Costner Epic" was such a trope at that point, too.

If he said Shenmue is like The Postman, then them be fighting words.

Shenmue 1 was one of the first games I ever played to make me think that there was actually a world existing outside of my character. I don't think that Shenmue is an especially good game, and I really thought the hype for Shenmue 3 was misplaced because people wanted to root for a console favorite at the time, but that "Feature," that it felt like I was a part of a world, as opposed to me being the central focus of the world, was really unique... It was something that I had never experienced in a game before and, importantly, one that I *always* wanted to experience even as a kid playing NES and Genesis games. As a kid, I always wanted a game where you could do normal things, walk around towns, go into stores, I used to talk about this game phantasy with friends of mine... I actually rented "Bart v. the Space Mutants" on NES because the box art made me think you could do that, and of course you couldn't. It took a long time, ~1999 or 2000, whenever I played Shenmue, for me to feel that in a game.

Even other open world-esque games, like A Link to the Past, it still really felt like "you" were the world. Sure, there's shopkeepers and house maids and what not, but maybe other than a few small exceptions, you only see those characters talk to you... You don't see the shopkeeper going to the beekeeper to buy honey, or any sort of world outside of you walking around in it.

In that respect, Shenmue 1 is similar to The Shining for me. Now, I'm not a movie buff or film guy, but I know the Shining was a movie that did a lot of things *new,* or was "The best first" example of a lot of film concepts. Like the way the big wheel scenes are shot or the aerial footage at the intro, I;m sure film experts or even moderate enthusiasts know the name for this automatically. The Shining is not a good analogy to shenmue because it's a successful movie that is widely, critically and popularly praised (although IIRC, it wasn't universally well received when it launched?). I'm trying to think of another movie that generally isn't *that good* but did a few new things so well, that few other movies had done before, that it's still culturally appreciated years and decades later.
 
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TSM

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,001
Again, completely different focus, as well as impact. You could even bring up 1976 text adventure game Colossal Cave Adventure.

It's like asking which was more influential - Body Harvest or Grand Theft Auto 3? Obviously GTA3, even though that team tested out all the gameplay innovations GTA3 did years earlier on Body Harvest. Which is considered the more influential survival horror game - Alone in the Dark or Resident Evil? Yes, Alone in the Dark came first, but Resident Evil popularized and refined all those elements.

Shenmue's attempt to create a functioning 3-dimensional open-world environment with individually unique NPC faces, day and night cycles and store schedules, hundreds of pointless interactive elements and doors that didn't seal you off but let you in (even if nothing was there), dozens of side diversions and minigames, actual arcade games in the in-game arcade, and even recreating the actual historical weather from 1986 for each exact day (seriously?!), Shenmue still remains one of the greatest examples of bringing a world to life.

Though perhaps 1Up's description of Shenmue as the world's first "open-city simulator" might gel with you more.
So you are saying pretty much like Ultima 7, but in 3D.
 

♡♪!?

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,991
Do you honestly think that his audience needs to scour the web for badly archived pages to find out why Shenmue is important even today ♡♪!?. People still review Star Wars IV-VI and write books about them despite all having been said about them that can be said. Someone needs to make a digestible summary for the next few years, might as well be Jim. Some else will follow thereafter and thereafter and... That´s the curse with digital resources. They fade faster than you think and Shenmue 3 is like 2 weeks old. No better time better than now to reasses one of gaming´s biggest failures.
I'm ok with history lessons, but this is the jimquistion, it's usually Jim calling out dodgy practises in the industry. Saying Shenmue is a flop and why is old news. And and I don't think anyone was expecting 3 to be a success, it was advertised as being made for fans and I guess most of them already bought it with the kickstarter. Just feels like a tiresome topic to choose, when something nice has happened in the industry, the fans got the product they paid for and they seem to be generally happy with it. I didn't mind the epic store controversy or criticising the transparency of kickstarters but just criticising Shenmue series for a bomb and Yu Suzuki career's choices 20 years ago is tiresome.
 

Garlador

Member
Oct 30, 2017
7,630
i think the comparison to Waterworld is pretty fair comparison. It's not necessarily a bad thing.

If he said Shenmue is like The Postman, then them be fighting words.
Honestly, it'd be fun to mention to him that many critics compare Deadly Premonition's structure and gameplay to Shenmue. Even SWERY noted those comparisons.

Jim gave Deadly Premonition a 10/10.
 

TSM

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,001
I find it amazing that they didn't wrap the story up and had the nerve to end on a cliff hanger. That seems rather disrespectful of the audience that waited 18 years for this game. Who knows if there's ever another one.
 

mael

Avenger
Nov 3, 2017
7,713
Can't really fault Jim on this one.
Shenmue is not exactly a popular game to the extent its budgets require.
It's basically the Metroid of Sega's franchise.
Vastly expensive (and I'm not even sure Metroid is that expensive to make), sell like a niche product but with a lot of prestige attached to it.
Jim may not like the games but who gives a shit what games he likes?
I mean he's a Dynasty Warrior fan after all, he has his taste but they're not exactly the most respected critic either.
In the case of Shenmue, he's right.
that franchise is a money vacuum that shits out games some people like.

The 3D part is kind of a big part of it, yes. People don't say Mario 64 was revolutionary for making Mario jump, but for making it work in 3-dimensional space.

Edit: whoops. double-post.
So...Ultima IX then?
that got released a few weeks before Shenmue 1.
 

♡♪!?

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,991
I find it amazing that they didn't wrap the story up and had the nerve to end on a cliff hanger. That seems rather disrespectful of the audience that waited 18 years for this game. Who knows if there's ever another one.
Suzuki was really honest with them from the start it would not wrap the series up, and it was quite a hard one to wrap up considering it's said the the villains are trying to summon a monster, the supernatural aspects barely touched and it suggests there's more in the series beyond Ryo's revenge with Lan Di It would be nice if we could get a concrete conclusion, but it's not disrespectful.
 

TSM

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,001
Suzuki was really honest with them from the start it would not wrap the series up, and it was quite a hard one to wrap up considering it's said the the villains are trying to summon a monster, the supernatural aspects barely touched and it suggests there's more in the series beyond Ryo's revenge with Lan Di It would be nice if we could get a concrete conclusion, but it's not disrespectful.
Yeah, I guess I'm wrong about disrespectful if he made it clear it wouldn't wrap it up. Still has to suck for fans knowing this might be it.
 

lowmelody

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,269
Suzuki was really honest with them from the start it would not wrap the series up, and it was quite a hard one to wrap up considering it's said the the villains are trying to summon a monster, the supernatural aspects barely touched and it suggests there's more in the series beyond Ryo's revenge with Lan Di It would be nice if we could get a concrete conclusion, but it's not disrespectful.
I was also put off about the cliff hanger part but that actually sounds cool.
 

benzy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,489
I find it amazing that they didn't wrap the story up and had the nerve to end on a cliff hanger. That seems rather disrespectful of the audience that waited 18 years for this game. Who knows if there's ever another one.
To rush and cut down the story in order to end it with a kickstarter project and have a Game of Thrones ending would be a slap in the face and disrespect to the fanbase.