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Shibatember Wrasslin |OT| The wreslter never dies

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Flammable D

Flammable D

Member
Oct 30, 2017
15,205
Serene said:
I meant to bring this up after Chapter 95, but do you think WALTER sticks around in PROGRESS? Can't really see a point in it if he can't lose right now and he doesn't really fit anywhere else on the card unless you are just bringing him in to squash people.
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Yeah people hated when Pete hung around having matches, personally I'd cycle him out while you can't use him. I don't mind bringing them in occasionally to do a cool match but the prevailing opinion seems to be that they're pointless and bad if you know they can't lose so maybe don't even do those 🤷
 
Avengers23

Avengers23

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
21,504
Flammable D said:


We could all use a Jushin Liger beachball
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Don't give it to Cesaro.
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fertygo

fertygo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,567
To be honest what made AEW thinner than already it is because they have Lucha Bros competing as tag instead single.. which is great, but as solo they also decent draw.

Can you imagine Fenix vs PAC? Wew lad.
 
drowsy

drowsy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
284
I guess the tag team division is partially what bothers me. There's already a lack of talent, and then you have a bunch of good wrestlers and interesting up and comers tied up in tag teams. Obviously they could use them as singles wrestlers as well, but then you're eating into tag team storylines, and you're having to compromise everywhere. NJPW's brilliant solution to this very problem is to not give a single fuck about the tag titles, so you can have a handful of permanent tag teams and throw singles talent in makeshift teams to give them a spot on a card. Which results in no one caring about the tag titles, so at least people feel the same way on both sides of the curtain.

Stables would probably help, making it easier to tell both singles and tag stories within the same segment. I can imagine some folks being sick of stables too though, so I don't know if the benefits outweigh the drawbacks.

The women's division though, I have not a single idea what they could do to make it anything more than The Women's Match On This Show. Half the talent is on part-time deals, and it's not a deep roster to begin with. I guess they could do simple Champion vs Challenger storytelling, but that doesn't sound very exciting. Increasing the roster size isn't going to be much of a help either, because it's not like they're going to give the women half the two hours show every week, so you're going to end up with two, maybe three segments for the women, and most of that's going to be about building to the next title match.
 

Henry Hank

Member
Jul 25, 2019
5,559
I guess the tag team division is partially what bothers me. There's already a lack of talent, and then you have a bunch of good wrestlers and interesting up and comers tied up in tag teams. Obviously they could use them as singles wrestlers as well, but then you're eating into tag team storylines, and you're having to compromise everywhere. NJPW's brilliant solution to this very problem is to not give a single fuck about the tag titles, so you can have a handful of permanent tag teams and throw singles talent in makeshift teams to give them a spot on a card. Which results in no one caring about the tag titles, so at least people feel the same way on both sides of the curtain.
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I'm not sure I'm following what is bothering you about it. Do you just not like tag team wrestling? Because otherwise it looks like a strong division, probably the best out there in terms of defined tag teams and a plan to actually push tag team wrestling like it matters.

The women's division though, I have not a single idea what they could do to make it anything more than The Women's Match On This Show. Half the talent is on part-time deals, and it's not a deep roster to begin with. I guess they could do simple Champion vs Challenger storytelling, but that doesn't sound very exciting. Increasing the roster size isn't going to be much of a help either, because it's not like they're going to give the women half the two hours show every week, so you're going to end up with two, maybe three segments for the women, and most of that's going to be about building to the next title match.
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Well, as of now they have a title match coming, and they have two secondary feuds (Baker vs Priestley, Brandi vs Allie with the Kongs involved). Plus a stated intention to push the joshi akin to the luchadors as WCW did in the early Nitro days. That seems like a pretty good indication that they're going to go for more than just one women's feud at a time.

They seem set for all three divisions - men, women, and tag - to have a title feud and at least a couple secondary feuds in the background. I think they have the roster to sustain that for now and the appropriate amount of TV time per week. What people are going to have to get used to is that every wrestler and feud is not going to be highlighted every week. I don't expect you'll see the champion appearing and wrestling every week. They're going to make time to balance out everything.
 
Rivenblade

Rivenblade

Member
Nov 1, 2017
37,127
I reall
drowsy said:
I guess the tag team division is partially what bothers me. There's already a lack of talent, and then you have a bunch of good wrestlers and interesting up and comers tied up in tag teams. Obviously they could use them as singles wrestlers as well, but then you're eating into tag team storylines, and you're having to compromise everywhere. NJPW's brilliant solution to this very problem is to not give a single fuck about the tag titles, so you can have a handful of permanent tag teams and throw singles talent in makeshift teams to give them a spot on a card. Which results in no one caring about the tag titles, so at least people feel the same way on both sides of the curtain.

Stables would probably help, making it easier to tell both singles and tag stories within the same segment. I can imagine some folks being sick of stables too though, so I don't know if the benefits outweigh the drawbacks.

The women's division though, I have not a single idea what they could do to make it anything more than The Women's Match On This Show. Half the talent is on part-time deals, and it's not a deep roster to begin with. I guess they could do simple Champion vs Challenger storytelling, but that doesn't sound very exciting. Increasing the roster size isn't going to be much of a help either, because it's not like they're going to give the women half the two hours show every week, so you're going to end up with two, maybe three segments for the women, and most of that's going to be about building to the next title match.
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I know that Shida is signed at the very least, but I'd definitely like to see more joshis who are committed to the company and who AEW gives stories to.
 
Mingoguaya

Mingoguaya

Member
Oct 30, 2017
3,859
I remember back when Cody said that they had revealed about 60% of the roster, and if they intend to don't have everyone on TV on a weekly basis, I can certainly now believe that. So I imagine that they still have quite a few wrestlers ready to debut and they will debut them slowly.

One thing that I didn't really enjoyed last night on NXT (and I know that NXT is this thread's darling show) is that they seemed to throw EVERYTHING at you at once. And I know that it was their first show on USA Network, but for me it was a bit overwhelming and it seemed that the matches had no stories attached to them at all (and yes, I know that this was the continuation of an ongoing program, but for a new viewer this was my impression). Don't get me wrong, the wrestling was pretty good, but I wasn't as excited as I thought I would be (maybe this is the way WWE fans feel when watching AEW).

So, yeah, people have to remember that AEW is just getting started and they have to introduce a whole roster of rivalries, storylines and characters, and that takes TIME. In the meantime, they have to build new stars and cater to the already established ones. Personally, I can't wait until AEW starts because it all feels fresh to me. New wrestlers, New storylines and a fresh take on American pro wrestling is exactly what I want, and I think that AEW will give me that.
 
Bronx-Man

Bronx-Man

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
15,351
I got no interest in watching NXT these days but I'm glad to hear the show was good. That's what we all want at the end of the day, good wrasslin'.
 

Henry Hank

Member
Jul 25, 2019
5,559
Mingoguaya said:
One thing that I didn't really enjoyed last night on NXT (and I know that NXT is this thread's darling show) is that they seemed to throw EVERYTHING at you at once. And I know that it was their first show on USA Network, but for me it was a bit overwhelming and it seemed that the matches had no stories attached to them at all (and yes, I know that this was the continuation of an ongoing program, but for a new viewer this was my impression). Don't get me wrong, the wrestling was pretty good, but I wasn't as excited as I thought I would be (maybe this is the way WWE fans feel when watching AEW).
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Looking at the match times on NXT, there were a couple of decent length (11 and 15 min), two more that went seven minutes, two more that were essentially squashes and another angle that didn't end up being a match. From what they said, I'd expect AEW TV will be more the former and will cut out the filler squash types of matches. I expect a typical show will have 4-5 matches of a decent length (average 10-15 minutes) and a little bit of time for non-wrestling stuff (inteviews, vignettes).
 
Flammable D

Flammable D

Member
Oct 30, 2017
15,205
Serene said:
so remind me again why Viper and KLR did a convoluted departure story and dropped the title
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Because they're higher tier people being removed from the Indies (in theory)

It's the same reason Pete and others don't tend to work Indies but like Travis Banks and Devlin do some and like an Amir Jordan can do pretty much whatever

And that wasn't that convoluted lol it was pretty straight up
 
Serene

Serene

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Oct 25, 2017
52,534
Flammable D said:
Because they're higher tier people being removed from the Indies (in theory)

It's the same reason Pete and others don't tend to work Indies but like Travis Banks and Devlin do some and like an Amir Jordan can do pretty much whatever

And that wasn't that convoluted lol it was pretty straight up
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idk I'd say Viper is pretty on-level with Jinny at this point in NXT UK

KLR is obviously top-tier though
 
thefro

thefro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,996
drowsy said:
The women's division though, I have not a single idea what they could do to make it anything more than The Women's Match On This Show. Half the talent is on part-time deals, and it's not a deep roster to begin with. I guess they could do simple Champion vs Challenger storytelling, but that doesn't sound very exciting. Increasing the roster size isn't going to be much of a help either, because it's not like they're going to give the women half the two hours show every week, so you're going to end up with two, maybe three segments for the women, and most of that's going to be about building to the next title match.
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They still need Mercedes Martinez and another vet or two to carry the matches while their talent with upside like Britt, Penelope, Sadie, etc. keep improving. Kenny can fill in the rest of the gaps with joshi. I'd also like them to sign a couple other high-upside talents (i.e. AQA from Reality of Wrestling).

I'm a broken record on this, but losing Kylie really hurt. She blows up and they land Tessa in 2020 and they would have been in business. Will need to be a longer-term build of the division now to get it where it needs to be.

Henry Hank said:
Well, as of now they have a title match coming, and they have two secondary feuds (Baker vs Priestley, Brandi vs Allie with the Kongs involved). Plus a stated intention to push the joshi akin to the luchadors as WCW did in the early Nitro days. That seems like a pretty good indication that they're going to go for more than just one women's feud at a time.

They seem set for all three divisions - men, women, and tag - to have a title feud and at least a couple secondary feuds in the background. I think they have the roster to sustain that for now and the appropriate amount of TV time per week. What people are going to have to get used to is that every wrestler and feud is not going to be highlighted every week. I don't expect you'll see the champion appearing and wrestling every week. They're going to make time to balance out everything.
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Agreed there. Pretty much everyone on the roster will have something to do, but they won't be on TV every week. They've set up a fair amount of things already.
 
Flammable D

Flammable D

Member
Oct 30, 2017
15,205
Serene said:
idk I'd say Viper is pretty on-level with Jinny at this point in NXT UK

KLR is obviously top-tier though
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Yeah, I'd agree

So here's what I was going to say before I checked Cagematch:
"although Jinny is a little more antagonist enhancement talent

Like I don't feel like they're protecting her particularly whereas Viper they don't want her dropping falls"

But then I checked and she's only lost to Toni in the last year

Whereas on the Indies she's losing to Dani Luna at ATTACK!

And Viper has lost to Jinny and Jazzy and Rhea

So 🤷‍♂️
 
justjim89

justjim89

Member
Nov 16, 2017
2,959
How long was NXT on USA? I thought it was gonna be two hours, but the version on the Network and Hulu is only about 50 minutes.
 
Buckle

Buckle

Member
Oct 27, 2017
41,116
So far AEW's womens division feels like kind of an after thought which is a shame since I would say womens wrestling is the most interesting thing going on in the sport today.

Riho vs Nyla should be alright but its going to be a far cry from what Baker vs Shida could have probably been if given time.
 
Serene

Serene

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
52,534
justjim89 said:
That's really weird. No archive of the USA portion then? I wonder if that's how they'll do it going forward.
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The VOD of the first hour will be on the Network tonight at 7 EST

After the first two weeks, both hours will be on USA and will be uploaded to the Network on Thursday nights.
 
justjim89

justjim89

Member
Nov 16, 2017
2,959
Serene said:
The VOD of the first hour will be on the Network tonight at 7 EST

After the first two weeks, both hours will be on USA and will be uploaded to the Network on Thursday nights.
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Thanks for the clarification. I feel like in spite of all the promotion, I hadn't heard much about the actual details of the network change.
 

Henry Hank

Member
Jul 25, 2019
5,559
Buckle said:
So far AEW's womens division feels like kind of an after thought which is a shame since I would say womens wrestling is the most interesting thing going on in the sport today.

Riho vs Nyla should be alright but its going to be a far cry from what Baker vs Shida could have probably been if given time.
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I think a lot of that is just the reality that their women's roster is limited. Compared to men, there are overall less strong women wrestlers out there, and a lot of those have already been gobbled up by WWE. I don't think there were the women equivalents to guys like Omega, Moxley, Cody, Jericho or the Young Bucks, Lucha Bros, and LAX the same way the men's divisions have. I don't think it's going to come off the same way if you're trying to push the women as top acts when you've got relatively inexperienced wrestlers like Baker and Rose, or complete unknowns to the mainstream like the joshi. I also think losing Kylie Rae and a lot of the joshi having other commitments and what not have held them back from really being able to push the women's division as strong as they might have wanted to. I don't think any of that is an indication that they aren't serious about women's wrestling, but rather it's just something that's going to take some time to catch up to what they're starting out with on the men's side.
 
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Ithil

Ithil

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Oct 25, 2017
23,390
Buckle said:
Be sure to watch AEW live to keep the good times rolling.

The minute AEW goes under, the WWE will start coasting again.

Doubt NXT would have ever made it off the network otherwise.
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I mean they rushed NXT onto USA so fast that its first two weeks won't even have its second hour be on USA, because they didn't wait for another show to finish airing.
 
drowsy

drowsy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
284
Henry Hank said:
I'm not sure I'm following what is bothering you about it. Do you just not like tag team wrestling? Because otherwise it looks like a strong division, probably the best out there in terms of defined tag teams and a plan to actually push tag team wrestling like it matters.
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I love tag team wrestling. The problem is that to give it the shine it really deserves, you almost have to treat it as a completely separate division, kind of like the split between the men's and women's divisions. So now you have three divisions to focus on, and it's really difficult to get even one right. And again, I think that stables might be the answer, because it makes it easier to slip in more tag team storytelling when you're focusing on a singles feud, or vice versa.

I'm not saying that it can't be done right, but it's really rare. NXT did it right for a while when they still had The Revival and Gable/Jordan and folks like that, but I don't know how much of that was the booking and how much was just having a bunch of fantastic teams on the roster. AEW has couple of really good teams and a couple that can pull their weight if need be, but time will tell if they can figure out a way to actually tell stories and make people care about those teams beyond the workrate.
 
RBH

RBH

Official ERA expert on Third Party Football
Member
Nov 2, 2017
32,924
Regarding AAA, from the Observer:


Between visa problems and injuries, there were 18 wrestlers and referees that were listed as appearing in original announcements who weren't there. La Parka, in particular was a part of all the advertising and was never mentioned. In all, 20 visas didn't come through by the time of the show, even though they were applied for months ago. All 20 were expected to come in this week, and those wrestlers will be available for Los Angeles.

Others who at one point were scheduled on the show were Amazing Red, Dezmond Xavier and Homicide.
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TarpitCarnivore

TarpitCarnivore

Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,229
People complain WWE roster is too big
Now AEW roster is too small
Which is it folks?

I have concerns about AEW after all the PPV, but I willing to give them a chance to play it all out. LU had a similar sized roster and managed to string together interesting stories.
 
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