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Pancakes R Us

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,344
I mean it pretty obvious that his stuff with sticker star has influence the direction of the series
Someone please tell me Origami isn't like Sticker Star. Sticker Star was my first ever PM that I beat...but had to consult a guide to find out that I needed a certain sticker for certain bosses with know way of actually knowing this apart from either being lucky and having it on my or maybe. If anyone best STicker Star without a guide, then I doth my cap to you.
 

ConVito

Member
Oct 16, 2018
3,091
Someone please tell me Origami isn't like Sticker Star. Sticker Star was my first ever PM that I beat...but had to consult a guide to find out that I needed a certain sticker for certain bosses with know way of actually knowing this apart from either being lucky and having it on my or maybe. If anyone best STicker Star without a guide, then I doth my cap to you.
I haven't played Origami King yet, but by all accounts, it's better than Sticker Star in every possible way. No card based battle system, no "collect a bunch of key items in your sticker book with extremely limited space" bullshit.
 

Dr. Collins

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
812
It's just stupid that the EPD Tokyo team can make completely unique characters whenever they want, but for some reason the Paper Mario team is given no creative license whatsoever. So sad too, because there are so many incredible characters in Paper Mario 1 & 2 that deserve to be in more games.
 

Clefargle

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,123
Limburg
Oh so Miyamoto isn't actively meddling with the projects anymore

it's just that the devs are committed to continuing implementing his limited vision on their own without him as some weird point of pride

OK
 

TheDinoman

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,096
It's just stupid that the EPD Tokyo team can make completely unique characters whenever they want, but for some reason the Paper Mario team is given no creative license whatsoever. So sad too, because there are so many incredible characters in Paper Mario 1 & 2 that deserve to be in more games.

It sucks but it does kinda make sense. Nintendo themselves can define what Mario can be, but they want the second party contractors like Intelligent Systems to abide by their law.

They seemingly just don't want outside companies expanding the Mario universe now.
 

Ushojax

Member
Oct 30, 2017
5,929
I think we more or less knew this. Miyamoto is responsible for the minimalist story/script/RPG gameplay of Sticker Star but the crackdown on "off-model" Mario character designs is more of a company wide thing that coincides with them branching out into theme parks, films etc. Not that Miyamoto didn't start that ball rolling too but he's not the person making the actual decisions.

It's just stupid that the EPD Tokyo team can make completely unique characters whenever they want, but for some reason the Paper Mario team is given no creative license whatsoever. So sad too, because there are so many incredible characters in Paper Mario 1 & 2 that deserve to be in more games.

No that makes perfect sense, EPD Tokyo are an internal development staff responsible for the main Mario series. Of course they will have more creative freedom than an external developer like IntSys. Obviously it's absurd to say that IntSys aren't given any creative licence whatsoever, Origami King is a wacky game full of bizarre and novel scenarios. It just doesn't have much visual variety in NPCs.
 

Kcannon

Member
Oct 30, 2017
5,662
Do people think Miyamoto has to be literally in-person, over the devs shoulders to have an effect on these games? It's pretty clear the systems he left behind are still screwing their ability to make memorable original characters. I'm not seeing the difference whether or not he personally interacted with the staff if his dumb mandates about the characters are still there.

The mandates aren't exclusively his, though. Likely, it was decided alongside other executives, perhaps through a vote.

In other words, people in the company agreed with Miyamoto.
 

Vampirolol

Member
Dec 13, 2017
5,821
People have to accept that these games were made by a team of people and not by a supervisor. SS and Color Splash were just mediocre games, one of which even sold great.
 

Ramsay

Member
Jul 2, 2019
3,623
Australia
Funny how a "barely passble" game managed to sell so well, with some people even prefering it over Super Paper Mario.
Selling so well primarily because it released on the Switch in the middle of a drought doesn't exactly excuse Origami King for its broken battle system or its inconsistent storytelling.
 

SiG

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,485
Selling so well primarily because it released on the Switch in the middle of a drought doesn't exactly excuse Origami King for its broken battle system or its inconsistent storytelling.
I thought the storytelling was actually better that the last two Paper Marios, and a more of a return to form?
 

Ramsay

Member
Jul 2, 2019
3,623
Australia
I thought the storytelling was actually better that the last two Paper Marios, and a more of a return to form?
Like with most of Origami King, better than the last two Paper Mario games isn't saying much when said games were outright bad.

With regards to the storytelling:
I felt that Bobby's death was more laughable than tragic, especially given how little buildup Bobby got, and how abrupt his death scene was. It's kind of like the death scenes in Fire Emblem: Fates in that it's intent to serve as a source of cheap shock value was so obvious that it loses all of its impact.

Similarly, Olly sucked as a villain. He got almost no screentime, and his motive was nonsensical.
 

AniHawk

No Fear, Only Math
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,162
Seems like wikipedia failed me, then xD he did seem pretty involved in that one from the reveal, though.

miyamoto's role is the face of nintendo's software development. they bring him out to cover for any controversial or different game ideas. for the wind waker, he expressed doubt internally about the direction for the visuals, but publicly said that it was how he had always envisioned the legend of zelda (back when tww's visuals were 'kiddie'). he might have had a more active role in star fox zero's direction, but he seemed more interested in his giant robot game at the time. he doesn't do a lot of hands-on stuff anymore. ocarina of time was the last major one, while pikmin was an encore.

i wonder where this anti-miyamoto sentiment started. i know people don't like how his direction for sticker star took the series, but super paper mario is an abysmally boring and creatively shallow game. at least there was a focus on action-adventure and it fit the handheld nature better. is it because he was the face of nintendo's software studios during the wii era? was it because koizumi was the 'super mario' guy and aonuma was the 'zelda' guy while miyamoto was talking up the wii ____ line of games? is it because of the younger generation that didn't grow up on his 80s and 90s output? or maybe it's holdover resentment of the wii/ds/wii u/3ds era that iwata was caught up in too where he was being called on to step down on message boards. i don't get it.
 

Jonneh

Good Vibes Gaming
Verified
Oct 24, 2017
4,538
UK
We should be talking less about Mario RPG characters and more about why we don't have another game with designs as cool as Strikers. I want to see Rosalina in this style damn it.
78c938a8e457343a692bcbeb620f822f.jpg
 

AerialAir

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,051
Portugal
Selling so well primarily because it released on the Switch in the middle of a drought doesn't exactly excuse Origami King for its broken battle system or its inconsistent storytelling.
I just finished Origami King, and I have to disagree with both. The storytelling in the game is somewhat formulaic, but it works rather well, with no dull moments. The combat is also good, IMHO; it's less focused on grinding and constant battles but instead, it mediates players towards unique battles, which are heavily scripted, fun, and unpredictable. This allows players to focus on exploration and other elements of the game that were more emphasized because you do not need to think about your strategy all the time. This is just my opinion, of course, but my perception of the game is very positive.
 

Kinsei

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
20,532
We should be talking less about Mario RPG characters and more about why we don't have another game with designs as cool as Strikers. I want to see Rosalina in this style damn it.
78c938a8e457343a692bcbeb620f822f.jpg
We're probably never getting another Mario Strikers, and if we did it would likely be in name only, with the style just being the generic Mario style.
 

Nairume

SaGa Sage
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,938
It's more like Tanabe misinterpreted his suggestions and then ignored Miyamoto going "hey wait"
Exactly. When you actually look at the suggestions he made (do something fresh, stick to existing characters, questioning if the story is necessary), it's not like it'd even actually be remotely limiting to a good Paper Mario.
 

EntelechyFuff

Saw the truth behind the copied door
Member
Nov 19, 2019
10,186
Am I the only person that feels gaslit by this thread?

The consistent thing I've heard on this topic was that the general "Nintendo" had given very specific guidelines about what can be done with IP in Origami King.

Seems weird to even care if it was Miyamoto specifically or not. Why does that matter?
 

delete12345

One Winged Slayer
Member
Nov 17, 2017
19,690
Boston, MA
We should be talking less about Mario RPG characters and more about why we don't have another game with designs as cool as Strikers. I want to see Rosalina in this style damn it.
78c938a8e457343a692bcbeb620f822f.jpg
First, we need to obtain a license for Western developers to work on a Mario spin-off franchise. I remembered the Mario Strikers was done by a Canadian studio, Next Level Games, am I wrong?