Shin Megami Tensei 3 Nocturne is kicking my ass

DJwest · Nov 2, 2017

I mean, goddamn. I just reached a boss fight

Metador

and all my attacks missed. It was so ridiculous that I thought that the fight was scripted and I was meant to lose. Lol nope.

This game is merciless. I'm constantly running out of money and healing items. My demons keep getting wrecked. Am I under leveled or something? Jeez, this is a brutal change of pace compared to Persona 5 that I completed this year (my GOTY).

Do you have tips for a beginner please?

KZXcellent · Nov 2, 2017

The area right before Matador should at least have Nozuchi which will have no problem dealing with force attacks. Also buy the Magatama in the Manikin's shop (Hifumi I believe) which will help you resist force as well. Aside from that focus on buffs and make sure no one is weak to force at all.

Also remember that buffs and debuffs in this game last the entire fight and are stackable.

Hektor · Nov 2, 2017

Use buffs and debuffs.
I mean, really, just do it.
They're much more important than in most jrpgs.

Generally, you should treat fights, especially bossfights, much more as puzzles than anything.
Most of them have a certain weakness or two (and i don't mean elementary damage), you just need to find it.

Escalario · Nov 2, 2017

1) The trick is having a couple of Force blocking/repealing demons (there's one in random battles in the general area before the Matador), and agility buffs/debuffs.

2)

rhandino · Nov 2, 2017

For that boss fight

Get the skill Fog Breath from the Wadatsumi Magatama and not only is going to make that fight MUCH easier but it more or less break the game in half lol

For the rest of the game:

1) Check your Magatama constantly! You will notice that there are some that are moving more than others and that means that in the next level up they are going to give you a skill so switch them constantly.

2) Fusion, Fusion, FUSION! Be sure to constantly keep checking what new demons you can fuse and what skills they are getting. Also remember that some demons will evolve after they gain a few levels and most of the time the evolved forms are some pretty good demons!

3) Have at least a demon that knows a healing skill and don't use it to fight but just to heal your party after hard fights. It's going to save you tons of Macca and time.

4) Take your time and dont get hasty.

EVA UNIT 01 · Nov 2, 2017

Sakukaja
Sukunda

Win

Hindenblewp · Nov 2, 2017

Hektor said:
Use buffs and debuffs.
I mean, really, just do it.
They're much more important than in most jrpgs.

Generally, you should treat fights, especially bossfights, much more as puzzles than anything.
Most of them have a certain weakness or two (and i don't mean elementary damage), you just need to find it.

Can't say it much better than this.

Weiss · Nov 2, 2017

Fuse Ame no Uzume. She's built for this fight.

Dust · Nov 2, 2017

Matador is considered "casual filter" as in the game is checking if you actually bothered to learn about buffs/debuffs and fusing proper demons. You cannot bruteforce him.

Nocturne is a difficult game so don't get soured, you will prevail sooner or later.

daevious · Nov 2, 2017

What level are you at and what demons do you have?
Good advice for Matador is to fuse Angel and a fairy demon to get Ame-no-Uzume, who has Media and wind immunity.
I'd recommend fusing a Bicorn with Rakukaja, which definitely helps early on, but I can't remember how to make it right now.

Germanos · Nov 2, 2017

Don't worry, you are not alone. That battle is actually there to determine if you want to continue with this hellishly challenging game or just let it go. Everyone struggles at it.
Anyway, the key is to have Uzume.

Hidden content

Sumio Mondo · Nov 2, 2017

Void Force. You need that to null his Force attack and debuff him and buff your party up a little bit but not too much otherwise he will negate all of that (with a Dekunda/Dekaja). Just keep hitting him with all you've got after that. If you have an Attack Mirror in your Items use that as well when he uses Taunt prior to his next attack since he's more than likely going to follow it up with a powerful physical attack. Good luck.

Patryn · Nov 2, 2017

It's a gate fight that is designed to teach you to use buffs and debuffs and account for enemy strengths and weaknesses.

Deleted member 10293 · Nov 2, 2017

Nocturne is something I played recently and loved but it requires you to prepare for bosses and some tips can make things a lot easier.

I recommend having for breath, dekunda, and dekaja somewhere in your party and this is non negotiable. Make daisoujou when possible and make sure he has dekaja and dekunda at the very least. Late game make sure you have debilitate. Buffs are extremely important and stack either way up to 4 times. This alone will make things far easier.

If you're going for TDE, going physical and having Pierce, freikugel, and focus is the bare minimum of what you'll need.

If you have any other questions feel free to ask and I'll to my best to answer

DJwest · Nov 2, 2017

KZXcellent said:
Also remember that buffs and debuffs in this game last the entire fight and are stackable.

I see, thanks. I think buffs/debuffs fade in 3 turns in Persona 5.

Hektor said:
Use buffs and debuffs.
I mean, really, just do it.
They're much more important than in most jrpgs.

Noted, thanks!

Escalario said:

Get Out of here lmao

rhandino said:
For that boss fight

Get the skill Fog Breath from the Wadatsumi Magatama and not only is going to make that fight MUCH easier but it more or less break the game in half lol

For the rest of the game:

1) Check your Magatama constantly! You will notice that there are some that are moving more than others and that means that in the next level up they are going to give you a skill so switch them constantly.

2) Fusion, Fusion, FUSION! Be sure to constantly keep checking what new demons you can fuse and what skills they are getting. Also remember that some demons will evolve after they gain a few levels and most of the time the evolved forms are some pretty good demons!

3) Have at least a demon that knows a healing skill and don't use it to fight but just to heal your party after hard fights. It's going to save you tons of Macca and time.

4) Take your time and dont get hasty.

I'm going to bookmark this thread lol. Thanks!

Deleted member 7279 · Nov 2, 2017

Is it bad that I knew what this was about before I opened the thread?

5taquitos · Nov 2, 2017

Weiss said:
Fuse Ame no Uzume. She's built for this fight.

This will always be my favorite SMT meme.

NovumVeritas · Nov 2, 2017

silkysmooth said:
Is it bad that I knew what this was about before I opened the thread?

No, you are not alone.
When I read the thread title I knew it was Matador.

EVA UNIT 01 · Nov 2, 2017

silkysmooth said:
Is it bad that I knew what this was about before I opened the thread?

Nope. I called it too

SatelliteOfLove · Nov 2, 2017

The key to tougher RPGs is to not think in "what, when" but "why, how".

Once you see the wheels turning under the hood, you'll realize that you don't just burn down a boss, you fight for control of the fight and the actual damage-dealing/healing/etc is a matter of course.

_Ryo_ · Nov 2, 2017

The game can be pretty challenging from what I hear but god damn is it beautiful.

CortexVortex · Nov 2, 2017

Don't worry OP, we all have been there.

Sgt. Demblant · Nov 2, 2017

silkysmooth said:
Is it bad that I knew what this was about before I opened the thread?

No, we all knew :)

But it's funny, I hadn't heard about Matador when I first played the game and I had no problems with him. Everything past him definitely kicked my ass though.

Sleepwalker · Nov 2, 2017

Hehehe I knew this would be about Matador.
Anyway, yeah, he is probably the biggest roadblock in the game. Not that is gets especially easier later, it's just that you get used to the brutality of everything and learn to use your greatest buddies, buffs/debuffs. Seriously, many encounters are borderline impossible without them.
Also, enjoy, I wish I could experience this game all over again. Such an unique experience, the visuals, the brutality, the eeriness, truly one of the jrpg greats.

super moustique · Nov 2, 2017

Haha, I knew this would be about that one boss ! Killed me a few times back then, good times !

Zeel · Nov 2, 2017

KZXcellent said:
Also remember that buffs and debuffs in this game last the entire fight and are stackable.

Well fuck me sideways, why the hell did I not know this.
I powerleveled like an idiot and with some luck managed to beat him on my 10th or so try. As soon as I got some more time on my hands, I am going to replay this classic the right way.

DJwest · Nov 2, 2017

EVA UNIT 01 said:
Sakukaja
Sukunda

Thanks

Weiss said:
Fuse Ame no Uzume. She's built for this fight.

Thanks man

daevious said:
What level are you at and what demons do you have?
Good advice for Matador is to fuse Angel and a fairy demon to get Ame-no-Uzume, who has Media and wind immunity.
I'd recommend fusing a Bicorn with Rakukaja, which definitely helps early on, but I can't remember how to make it right now.

I'm level 15 and I have Inugami, Shikagami and Kodama.

Germanos said:
Don't worry, you are not alone. That battle is actually there to determine if you want to continue with this hellishly challenging game or just let it go. Everyone struggles at it.
Anyway, the key is to have Uzume.

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I shouldn't have fused Pixie, Dammit

Sumio Mondo said:
Void Force. You need that to null his Force attack and debuff him and buff your party up a little bit but not too much otherwise he will negate all of that (with a Dekunda/Dekaja). Just keep hitting him with all you've got after that. If you have an Attack Mirror in your Items use that as well when he uses Taunt prior to his next attack since he's more than likely going to follow it up with a powerful physical attack. Good luck.

Thanks!

curi0usBystander · Nov 2, 2017

I suspected it was Matador.
Just use buffs/debuffs and void/resit (i know you can get that in the area but not sure if it's a void or a resit) force .

paprika · Nov 2, 2017

this boss is straight up telling you to use buffs and debuffs. and this is something you better learn to do as it's pretty essential in the entire game

buy the wind magatama so he'll waste a bunch of turns

instead of trying to force through bosses, stop and think what you might be doing wrong

this game isn't hard at all once you learn to use these things in your favor. in fact, if you do basic fusing manipulation and proper buffing, you can cheese a number of bosses

Zyrox · Nov 2, 2017

Best strategy to fight Matador:

Git gud

Seriously though, echoing what the others have said here. Make ample use of buffs/debuffs (they work a little differently than in Persona, you can stack them up to 4 times and they last the duration of the entire battle unless Dekunda/Dekaja is cast. Obviously bosses know Dekunda/Dekaja but they won't use it every time they're debuffed/you're buffed so it still makes sense to go ham with the (de)buffs. Fog Breath is an amazing debuff you pretty much always want to have.)
Fusing Ame no Uzume also helps a lot.

BlackJace · Nov 2, 2017

SMT is one of the only RPG series where buffing/debuffing is crucial. I think Matador was intended to teach that lesson haha.

But yes, Sukakaja for win.

paprika · Nov 2, 2017

Weiss said:
Fuse Ame no Uzume. She's built for this fight.

Ame-no-Uzume is like, what, level 18? you get to this boss on level 12 or so. there's absolutely no reason to grind this much if you just learn to play to game

daevious · Nov 2, 2017

DJwest said:
I'm level 15 and I have Inugami, Shikagami and Kodama.

Shikigami and Kodama are outclassed at this point, and Inugami, while good, is completely hopeless against Matador because of his wind weakness.

I shouldn't have fused Pixie, Dammit

A Jack Frost will also work.

Deleted member 15457 · Nov 2, 2017

I love how I knew exactly what part of the game this was going to be before opening the thread.

And I haven't even played Nocturne...

Deleted member 10293 · Nov 2, 2017

OP, make sure you hold on to pixie or whatever she fused into for late game. You'll thank me (maybe)

No Depth · Nov 2, 2017

As mentioned, there are demons available in the area where Matador is that make the fight a cinch. (Admittedly its a real pain that he appears without warning though)

In fact, don't really get attached to your demons in this game, you are focusing on skills to have on your team. Expect to enter boss fights somewhat haphazardly and take a burn round or two to just figure out weaknesses, strengths, etc...(then usually reset or die to come back prepared). Really isn't too bad once you get the rhythm and get used to exploiting affinities.

splash wave · Nov 2, 2017

I'll beat this game some day. I'm like 45 hours in, and not even very close to finishing, as I understand it.

Yohane · Nov 2, 2017

I knew what this was about even before opening the thread eheheh

Tygerjaw · Nov 2, 2017

Yohane said:
I knew what this was about even before opening the thread eheheh

Me too, haha.

Dreamboum · Nov 2, 2017

lol they asked for tips you gave 'em the literal rundown to the specific demon to fuse for this fight and the next 10 hours, I feel for OP.

Pasokon Deacon · Nov 2, 2017

Matador threads are a classic. I knew about the boss going in, so it was actually fights like...

Mara, The Harlot, one of the Riders, Trumpeter, that dark Oni which I had to look up the solution for (after trying everything I could think of, talk about bad design), Mot, and Beelzebub

...which forced multiple tries and some brain-racking. But Nocturne's not as hard as it's made out to be so long as you don't refuse to fuse. Always keep a steady inventory, experiment with alternate fusions often (or just spend hours rolling for different skill transfers like I did, lol), and know when to back off from a dungeon or boss if you aren't yet prepared or running low.

PolydactylCat · Nov 2, 2017

DJwest said:
Do you have tips for a beginner please?

You know that first pixie you got? Keep track of her fusion descendants or evolutions.

Very late game optional quest spoiler:

Hidden content

Monogatari · Nov 2, 2017

This bos made me quit the game several years ago.

I came back to it this year and defeated the fucker.

But then I got bored afterwards.

mudai · Nov 2, 2017

Weiss said:
Fuse Ame no Uzume. She's built for this fight.

Came here to see this meme, hehe.

Don't let Matador discourage you, OP. I can't add to the tips you already got. It's really "buff, buff, buff, buff" the fight and a huge content blocker. We've all been there. We all suffered at his hands. The feeling when finally beating him is undescribable, however. Best of luck!

Dali · Nov 2, 2017

I remember the same experience but somehow I beat him. Cant remeber what exactly i did as i was playing around when it was first released. Not sure how far along I got. I think I ended up stopping sometime after Dante.

Crayolan · Nov 2, 2017

Going from P5 to Nocturne would be quite the difficulty spike lol.

Basically you want to have as many nulls/drains/repels as possible on your party at any given time while also having a varied assortment of buffs/debuffs. Also, try to fuse a demon with Media for Matador if possible, it'll make your life much easier.

In general, make sure you pay close attention to how the mechanics work, Nocturne is not a game you can brute force your way through without having a good understanding of the mechanics.

Not Spaceghost · Nov 2, 2017

Is SMT3 your first SMT? Because if so yeah I could see how this would be a real "holy shit what the fuck" moment. You can actually beat matador ridiculously easily with a pixie and a in your party, as other's have said just make sure you farm enough money to buy the magatama that nulls force from the vendor around where the boss fight is. I think it's called Hifumi.

The trick to SMT is simple, to learn how to win first you must get bodied.

Basically don't ignore your debuffs and buffs, sukunda and rakunda are particularly useful, also match elements. If you can straight up void spells the enemy gets a penalty to their turn if I remember right. Like wise if he gets a critical / hits a weakness WHEW you're in for a bad time. Basically make sure no one in your party is weak to anything the boss can do and make sure you've got an arsenal where you're not hitting them with anything they're resistant again and you're golden.

Philippo · Nov 2, 2017

*reads title*
"Yeah this has to be a Matador thread"
*sees Matador memes*
*leaves satisfied*

Leo · Nov 2, 2017

Yeah, Matador is one of the hardest bosses in the game. It's kind of a turning point. From there on you have to start building your team carefully if you wanna progress without grinding like crazy.

Just picking the demons that seem stronger and giving them abilities that seem useful won't do, you have to really explore the fusion system, and build strong demons with strong abilities and good synergy.

One of the best demons in the game is Daisoujou, I fusioned one for this fight and kept it in my team until the very last true boss. He is a pain to fusion, but it's worth it.

The hardest bosses in the game are optional, but I suggest taking them down cause it's so much fun, and it's worth it, the true ending is absolutely awesome.

Opa-Pa · Nov 2, 2017

I actually thought this had to be about someone other than Matador because I figured everyone knew the trick already due to him being discussed so often in Megaten threads.

We've all been there though. As a side note, if you really learn from the fight and get used to fusing good stuff on your own, the rest of the bosses should be pretty straightforward.

Shin Megami Tensei 3 Nocturne is kicking my ass

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