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Shin Megami Tensei |OT| Choose a new Reason

Oct 25, 2017
13
Great stuff!

For those who want to be designers, I’d say rather than simply playing games all the time, go outside and seek inspiration doing other things. Be that play, or sports or anything like that, even getting in trouble could help. (laughs) If you concentrate too much on games you’ll become ignorant of the world outside you, and even if you create something interesting, it won’t be revolutionary.
wowie

Also nice to see our Cu Chulainn crib in there!
 
Oct 26, 2017
130
and that kaneko quote reads like a straight paraphrase of this one from Ryutaro Ito

Finally, would you care to give some advice to those hoping to one day work in the games industry?
Be someone that has a wide variety of interests. You can’t expect to be able to plan and write interesting games if you yourself absorb nothing but games.
I love how everyone was on the same wavelength at the time, the whole team was something special.

https://blueforestbible.tumblr.com/post/109174139417/an-interview-with-ryutaro-ito-megami-tensei
 
Oct 25, 2017
13
and that kaneko quote reads like a straight paraphrase of this one from Ryutaro Ito



I love how everyone was on the same wavelength at the time, the whole team was something special.

https://blueforestbible.tumblr.com/post/109174139417/an-interview-with-ryutaro-ito-megami-tensei
Oh yeah, that's a great one as well! One I can never remember when I'm trying to think of it. Also has the useful quote where Ito claims Thorman's name's similarity to Truman's was just a coincidence.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,122
You know you're describing Digital Devil Saga with this right?
I don’t remember J Pop in DDS (Sera’s song being called J Pop would be a stretch). I was actually describing Tokyo Mirage Sessions (which was actually pretty good). But anyway I wouldn’t be surprised with current Atlus it veers more and more towards that direction anyway. At least the gameplay and music will be great.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,057
Apocalypse is nothing overly exciting (yet) but fun all the same. Good combat and battles go a long way. It doesn't look like a top tier Atlus game though. Neither was IV for taht matter.
 
Oct 25, 2017
13,882
Michael in DDS2 is really goddamn hard!

Made him eat shit on Omnipotence with Attack Mirror though which killed him. Was pretty rad. I lucked out big time with Serph still acting under control despite getting panicked.
 
Oct 25, 2017
13,882
I don’t remember J Pop in DDS (Sera’s song being called J Pop would be a stretch). I was actually describing Tokyo Mirage Sessions (which was actually pretty good). But anyway I wouldn’t be surprised with current Atlus it veers more and more towards that direction anyway. At least the gameplay and music will be great.
A week late in getting to this but:

- DDS2 has a JPOP opening.

- The characters constantly extol the virtues of "comrades" which is basically the super gritty SMT version of "friends."

- It's a game focused on a set cast of characters and their development over the setting and concept driven Nocturne, much like Apocalypse vis a vis SMTIV.

- The ending is disgustingly happy.
 
Oct 26, 2017
362
If DDS2 was remade today then they would

bring the Embyron back to life rather then getting reincarnated, ruining the themes.

Man typing that out was painful. I want Atlus to say far away from it's past catalogues.
 
Oct 25, 2017
13,882
If DDS2 was remade today then they would

bring the Embyron back to life rather then getting reincarnated, ruining the themes.

Man typing that out was painful. I want Atlus to say far away from it's past catalogues.
You're kidding right?

There is literally no meaningful distinction between what you're saying and DDS2's actual ending.

*Happy Ending*

SMT Fans:


I'm certainly not of that opinion, but all the mud that gets slung at Apocalypse was also largely present in the beloved DDS duology (definitely beloved by me, at least. They're my favourite SMT games).
 
Oct 26, 2017
311
I haven't played either DDS or SMTIV:A yet, but I still kinda like interesting "happy endings" like the one in Nocturne.
Nocturne's freedom ending returning everything back to the status quo before the Conception has kinda of a meta consequence where the main character is back to normal and not the Demifiend anymore. Everyone I've talked to before I played Nocturne really loves to jerk off to how cool and strong Demifiend is, so I was really surprised they made an ending where he's back to normal.
 

BlackJace

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
2,580
You're kidding right?

There is literally no meaningful distinction between what you're saying and DDS2's actual ending.



I'm certainly not of that opinion, but all the mud that gets slung at Apocalypse was also largely present in the beloved DDS duology (definitely beloved by me, at least. They're my favourite SMT games).
Apoc definitely leaned a bit too hard into the "Friendship" trope, but yeah there wasn't really much in its happy ending that was super foreign among other titles. Hell, Soul Hackers ending (my favorite SMT) was largely feel good.

Devil Survivor, which had hardcore-ass Chaos endings, also had "back to normal" feel good endings as well.
 
Oct 25, 2017
13,882
Apoc definitely leaned a bit too hard into the "Friendship" trope, but yeah there wasn't really much in its happy ending that was super foreign among other titles. Hell, Soul Hackers ending (my favorite SMT) was largely feel good.

Devil Survivor, which had hardcore-ass Chaos endings, also had "back to normal" feel good endings as well.
Devil Survivor Vanilla had, bar none, the best implementation of the LNC system in the entire series. Massively variable in terms of story and gameplay in a way the series had yet seen and even to this day struggles with, where none of the endings are universally happy or better than the other, and even the
"good" Gin ending ends on a foreboding note from Metatron and with the knowledge from Loki and Naoya that this can all happen again.

Overclocked... did not follow through with this.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,700
I haven't played either DDS or SMTIV:A yet, but I still kinda like interesting "happy endings" like the one in Nocturne.
Nocturne's freedom ending returning everything back to the status quo before the Conception has kinda of a meta consequence where the main character is back to normal and not the Demifiend anymore. Everyone I've talked to before I played Nocturne really loves to jerk off to how cool and strong Demifiend is, so I was really surprised they made an ending where he's back to normal.
That's the ending I got. Honestly, it is kind of unsettling imo. The juxtaposition between the lead-up and that ending...it just expresses the latent madness. Particularly with how Nocturne felt more directly about man-in-society imo.
 
Oct 27, 2017
11,570
*SMT IV: Apocalypse spoilers*

Even after killing all my closest friends, Dadga is still too goddamn lazy to actually become a party member/partner despite being ridiculously powerful.

"Go get em, kid!"

*Dadga sits back in a recliner while I fight Krishna for the cosmic egg*

I'm starting to have some serious regrets about this internship.
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,233
Mexico
Something I like about the War difficulty is that never decrease the feel of danger, so you can always being wiped out even in normal battle, but it's never "unfair" like how vanilla IV was, which frankly at endgame only the Kenji fight could be considered fantastic. Ah Apocalypse have my favorite gameplay loop since Nocturne and I love it so much.
 
Oct 28, 2017
12,861
I've been replaying SMT1 and it amazes me even more than it did 7 years ago. It's outrageous a game like that was released in 1992. An expansive world, clashing ideloogies and a great gameplay system (if you don't think too hard about Zio spells). How did they do it ?
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,700
Yeah playing SMT1 and 2 last year blew me away tbh. Particularly the completeness of the aesthetic and narrative visions.

I also had a curve with the combat in both games where I really enjoyed it and it was challenging and then I got game changing abilities and for a while they feel so glorious then just how much they trivialize things becomes apparent. Frankly though, SMT III and IV have similar difficulty curves, so it doesn’t particularly stand out to me as a flaw but it is quite there.

I also found them largely readable. I got lost a couple times across both but really they are quite direct, snappy narrative heavy dungeon crawlers imo.
 
Oct 25, 2017
13,882
I did two playthroughs of SMTII last year.

First one ended when I got a Cursed weapon and leveled it up, becoming unable to remove it.

Second was when I had no demons with buff spells, making Satan unbeatable.
 
Oct 28, 2017
12,861
Yeah playing SMT1 and 2 last year blew me away tbh. Particularly the completeness of the aesthetic and narrative visions.

I also had a curve with the combat in both games where I really enjoyed it and it was challenging and then I got game changing abilities and for a while they feel so glorious then just how much they trivialize things becomes apparent. Frankly though, SMT III and IV have similar difficulty curves, so it doesn’t particularly stand out to me as a flaw but it is quite there.

I also found them largely readable. I got lost a couple times across both but really they are quite direct, snappy narrative heavy dungeon crawlers imo.
I haven't played SMT2 yet, I'm really looking forward to it.

Just a question: wasn't my Yen currency supposed to be unusable when I reach Ruined Tokyo ? I had the same amount of Macca as I had Yen and I don't remember it being the case. It's a blessing as far as I'm concerned but this is very weird
 
Oct 27, 2017
11,570
Made it to the final dungeon of Apocalypse. At the 4th Brane, ready to get this over with and it just keeps going.

Looks nice but damn...this really sucks.
 
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Oct 25, 2017
2,469
Made it to the final dungeon of Apocalypse. At the 4th Brane, ready to get this over with and it just keeps going.

Looks nice but damn...this really sucks.
It's torture. I almost gave up. After being so disappointed with the game that endless slog was the icing on the cake.
 
Oct 27, 2017
11,570
Also, story kind of just started to lose me halfway through. I really like Dadga, he might end up being one of my favorite SMT characters, Krishna was pretty cool and the humbling of Navarre was well done but thats about it.

I liked the partner system at first but think things flowed better when it was just MC, Asahi and Nevarre. The cast gets too big bloated at about the midpoint and it starts to feel more JRPGish than the average SMT.

Later on the whole thing becomes a lil too "power of friendship"y for me.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,823
"Bloated cast" seems to be a problem endemic to JRPGs. Which is weird for me to say, because I got into the genre in the SNES days (particularly FF6 and CT), and at one point in the PS2 era I was like "man it's weird how JRPGs don't really have, like, secret characters anymore" but now when I play 'em I'm always like "wow like half these characters have no reason to even be in the game"

I do like the demon ability/elemental aptitudes, which seem like a good way to balance things so you don't just fuse demons with identical skill sets.

Devil Survivor 1 was maybe not terrible at integrating a large cast and having their stories play out over the course of the week, but it's too bad the game's structure meant you just had the core 3 party members until the final day when basically everyone joins.
 
Oct 28, 2017
12,861
The way

Law Hero dies is so impactful because of its brievity. I never know how to save his girlfriend, how do I get a Soul Incense ?
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,700
I haven't played SMT2 yet, I'm really looking forward to it.

Just a question: wasn't my Yen currency supposed to be unusable when I reach Ruined Tokyo ? I had the same amount of Macca as I had Yen and I don't remember it being the case. It's a blessing as far as I'm concerned but this is very weird
Hmmm yeah I remember having my money reduced by the exchange. Could well be I didn’t pay enough attention but this is strange. Will make up some for Macca beam :p .
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,700
Double post but I was thinking about neutral again. It is interesting that classic neutral is a choice of mankind over demonkind and angelkind but it doesn’t render a “human” world but I instead a world of demons wherein mankind tries (and after SMT fails) to carve oout aworld for itself. In SMT III and SJ neutral does create a world of man but I’d put forward that in both that world is undercut by the content of the game: Nocturne is in part about the underlying tensions and aggression in society (of various sorts) and SJ suggests leaving it to mankind is choosing to do nothing in the face of ruin. The latter is similar to classic neutral but the fangs are explicitly bared—it is about mankind asa whole facing its destruction and refusing corrective help. The former leaves the individual caught within the great weight of the self crushing and alienating forces of modernized society, and the hatred and violence these inspire.
 
Oct 27, 2017
11,570
Finally made it to the final boss of Apocalypse.

I love this fight a lot from a story/lore perspective in general but holy shit, they've got some seriously cheap tactics. Has three press turns and he can give himself smirk and fully boosted stats with just one? A move that wipes out a shitload of MP from the entire party?

Come the fuck on.
 
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Oct 28, 2017
12,861
I forgot how SMT really makes you run the full distance in terms of level you get to at the end of the game. Level 45 you'd think you're close to the end of the game like most JRPGs but no in SMT you can go well over level 80 and you're still not done
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,057
Apocalypse is fucking great. Not quite Strange Journey level but way closer than I anticipated it to be, and certainly better than SMT IV by a long shot. The gameplay is so good. I wish it had more diverse dungeons though. It's all pretty dark.
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,233
Mexico
Apocalypse is fucking great. Not quite Strange Journey level but way closer than I anticipated it to be, and certainly better than SMT IV by a long shot. The gameplay is so good. I wish it had more diverse dungeons though. It's all pretty dark.
*highfive*

If SMT IV is remastered I hope they bring all the changes from Apocalypse. It would be the best game between the two IMHO, but honestly I love both, even if Lucifer incarnation is literally not the same as before. It wouldn't surprise me if the Lucifer from Nocturne is quite different about the others and more special just for his knowledge about the Amala network.

Talking about Amala, I really really want see again multiverse aspects in a Megaten game. Or bring the Conception, maybe. I think it's time the series advance a bit in this plot.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,057
Man, Apocalypse is really long. I'm 32h into the game, level 61 and it feels like I'm nowhere near the end.
I'm about to face resurrected Shesha in Ikebukoro on 4/8
. I recall finishing SMT IV in like 35h or so.
 
Oct 25, 2017
656
cj_iwakura Completely off-topic, but are you still working on that Sakura Wars translation? (if you don't mind answering)
Ever since they announced the new one I've been curious to give the older entries in the series a try but it seems like the only one available in english is the 5th one for the Wii, so I got curious about that patch.