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Shmups (Shoot 'Em Ups) |OT| THE FULL EXTENT OF THE JAM

Cthulhu_Steev

Member
Oct 27, 2017
983
It's a bad translation, he's basically saying the new game has the same conceptual roots as Ikaruga while being a totally different sort of game.

The update doesn't really give anything away that hasn't already been disclosed: in essence, the game system is there but M2 doesn't have an in-house team that can do it justice, so they're still considering whether to work with external contractors, hire more people, etc to bring the graphics up to scratch.
Ah, that makes sense. I originally thought 'ooh, side-scroller' then laughed at myself for being so stupid and getting 90/180 mixed up.
 
Jul 27, 2019
251
Maybe I'm stupid but part of me wants to give them the benefit of the doubt - google translate says:
* This version upgrade is for iOS only.
 It does not support Android.
This could mean that they're not supporting Android yet. That these particular updates are iOS only.
 
Jul 27, 2019
251
FYI if you check Cave's twitter, there's a bunch of tweets saying that they want to do Android and console ports again. Keep the flame alive.
 

Protmind

Member
Oct 27, 2017
50
I'm finally sitting down and playing the Limited Run Battle Garegga and really enjoying it. I've had the Insanity DVD/Soundtrack for over 10 years but never really played the game.

I'm interested in the other M2 releases. Before I pull the trigger are they all digital? Also looks like only Dangun has come to US. Any news on others getting a US release like Ketsui?
 

rawhide

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,444
I'm finally sitting down and playing the Limited Run Battle Garegga and really enjoying it. I've had the Insanity DVD/Soundtrack for over 10 years but never really played the game.

I'm interested in the other M2 releases. Before I pull the trigger are they all digital? Also looks like only Dangun has come to US. Any news on others getting a US release like Ketsui?
Battle Garegga is digital and physical for PS4, digital-only on XB1. Both digital versions are available outside of Japan in English, and aside from the LRG PS4 version there's also a Korean disc version for PS4 which is sorta-semi English.

Dangun Feveron is digital-only, PS4 and XB1, Japan and overseas in English.

Mahou Daisakusen is digital-only, PS4-only and Japan-exclusive.

Ketsui is digital and physical for PS4, Japan-only; the disc version comes pre-installed with the paid DLC (arrange mode based on a rare arcade remix, a particular arrange OST).

ESPRa.De, out in December, is digital and physical for PS4 and Switch; they haven't announced paid DLC but if they do it'll probably be pre-installed on the physical version, as with Ketsui.

They haven't said anything about more overseas releases, aside from they hope LRG shows interest in Dangun Feveron.

I think non-simultaneous releases are hurting them, the core audience for these games isn't afraid to buy them in Japanese but even a lot of those guys probably aren't going to double-dip, at least digitally.
 

Lakeside

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,202
Battle Garegga is digital and physical for PS4, digital-only on XB1. Both digital versions are available outside of Japan in English, and aside from the LRG PS4 version there's also a Korean disc version for PS4 which is sorta-semi English.

Dangun Feveron is digital-only, PS4 and XB1, Japan and overseas in English.

Mahou Daisakusen is digital-only, PS4-only and Japan-exclusive.

Ketsui is digital and physical for PS4, Japan-only; the disc version comes pre-installed with the paid DLC (arrange mode based on a rare arcade remix, a particular arrange OST).

ESPRa.De, out in December, is digital and physical for PS4 and Switch; they haven't announced paid DLC but if they do it'll probably be pre-installed on the physical version, as with Ketsui.

They haven't said anything about more overseas releases, aside from they hope LRG shows interest in Dangun Feveron.

I think non-simultaneous releases are hurting them, the core audience for these games isn't afraid to buy them in Japanese but even a lot of those guys probably aren't going to double-dip, at least digitally.
Even if they would announce a Western release that lags behind the Japanese release it would solve the problem. This particular audience has grown used to importing these games so we jump on whatever scraps we can find, but then some won’t buy the local version if it finally releases. I’m sure that throttles sales to some degree.
 

rawhide

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,444
Even if they would announce a Western release that lags behind the Japanese release it would solve the problem. This particular audience has grown used to importing these games so we jump on whatever scraps we can find, but then some won’t buy the local version if it finally releases. I’m sure that throttles sales to some degree.
Yeah, that's true. The other English releases they've done so far pretty much just showed up with no warning, the XB1 ports in particular were a total surprise.

Another problem going forward is they keep adding more and more content that would need to be localized: Mahou Daisakusen has tons of new text, ESPRa.De's getting a mode with a lot of new dialog, etc. These games probably aren't very profitable and with so many people importing already, I can see why they may not even bother localizing certain games, at least on their own.
 

ShinJohnpv

Member
Oct 25, 2017
707
I bought the US release of Battle Garegga and Dangun Feveron. However after all the silence on the US release side, I bought Ketsui when it got a physical release in Japan, and I have ESP Ra De pre-ordered. If feels like its been ages since BG and DF released in the West, and we've heard nothing about the subsequent 3 games coming here.
 

SmiteOfHand

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,814
I bought the US release of Battle Garegga and Dangun Feveron. However after all the silence on the US release side, I bought Ketsui when it got a physical release in Japan, and I have ESP Ra De pre-ordered. If feels like its been ages since BG and DF released in the West, and we've heard nothing about the subsequent 3 games coming here.
M2 might be too slammed with the fifty different collection projects like Castlevania, Contra, Secret of Mana, mega drive mini, etc... to dedicate more regular timelines to passion projects like our weird pew-pew games. :/

Happy stuff is still trickling out all the same.
 

ShinJohnpv

Member
Oct 25, 2017
707
I mean I get that (thought the Collection of Mana stuff was finished a couple years ago, and this was just the US release finally happening), but they've been pretty consistent with the pew pew games releasing in Japan. It's just been in the US that has been ignored.
 

Tendo

Member
Oct 26, 2017
340
How is the Darius collection on switch? And is there a way to get the digital version in the US?
 

1upsuper

Member
Jan 30, 2018
4,109
How is the Darius collection on switch? And is there a way to get the digital version in the US?
I think I saw you post in the Switch eShop thread saying you ended up getting the standard physical edition? Good choice, that has the essential titles. I'm a big Darius fan and that collection is excellent. You're actually in a pretty good spot because the Japanese eShop got digital versions of the standard edition as well as a standalone version that just includes the special edition-exclusives, so if you want the games your collection is missing, you can make a Japanese Nintendo account and get that digital version on the eShop. I recommend making a Japanese Nintendo account and linking it to a separate profile on your Switch, which then lets you automatically access the Japanese eShop by selecting that profile to access the shop. Then you can play the games you buy with any profile. The only issues is that your games are spread across multiple accounts, which could be an issue if you ever get another Switch.

Do note that US credit cards don't work on the Japanese eShop, so you'll want to buy prepaid cards, which are available online. I think most stores will send you the code immediately upon purchase.
 
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Tendo

Member
Oct 26, 2017
340
I think I saw you post in the Switch eShop thread saying you ended up getting the standard physical edition? Good choice, that has the essential titles. I'm a big Darius fan and that collection is excellent. You're actually in a pretty good spot because the Japanese eShop got digital versions of the standard edition as well as a standalone version that just includes the special edition-exclusives, so if you want the games your collection is missing, you can make a Japanese Nintendo account and get that digital version on the eShop. I recommend making a Japanese Nintendo account and linking it to a separate profile on your Switch, which then lets you automatically access the Japanese eShop by selecting that profile to access the shop. Then you can play the games you buy with any profile. The only issues is that your games are spread across multiple accounts, which could be an issue if you ever get another Switch.

Do note that US credit cards don't work on the Japanese eShop, so you'll want to buy prepaid cards, which are available online. I think most stores will send you the code immediately upon purchase.

Thanks for the reply! I hated to cross post like that but I didn't know where I'd get a good response to a fairly niche question. It should be here Monday! I've gone on a huge shooter kick lately which started with my neo geo mini getting here. I can't wait to dive in! It has been quite awhile since I've put some time into Darius but I loved playing it back in college. Thanks for all the info!
 

tidus79

Member
Sep 19, 2019
8
Bordighera (Imperia)
Been playing them since I first played R-Type down the arcades.

I'll put forward a few of my fav: R-Type,Final Soldier,Lords of Thunder,Gate of Thunder,Galaga 88,Darius Plus

I collect shmups for Pc Engine:

 

StarCreator

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,839
I mean I get that (thought the Collection of Mana stuff was finished a couple years ago, and this was just the US release finally happening)
Not completely accurate; SD3 was Japan only and received a new localization into multiple languages for the international release. There's some bit of crazy wizardry going on with that localization too, where they managed to increase the size of the cartridge while retaining a smaller memory map so the game would still work.
 

rawhide

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,444
Are the ports of Vasara 1 and 2 good compared to the original games?
The ports themselves are generally good but they're lacking in options: control configs, screen options, the leaderboards are silly, etc. It's all minor stuff that could be patched but I don't know if they ever will (or maybe they have, I haven't paid much attention).

They also don't run super well on Switch. The Vita version is a completely separate build and is actually well-optimized for that hardware, or so I've heard.
 

eddiemunstr

Member
Jan 20, 2019
551
Hey guys, can anyone give me any opinions on Dariusburst chronicles? I knew of the game when it came out but was turned away by the steep price. Recently I have been looking into games in this genre again and have been giving it some consideration again. Exactly how much content does the game have? and what content does the dlc have? is the dlc worth getting?

I see that there are two modes to the game one with 200 stages and another with over 1000. Is there enough variation in this game to make it worth playing that long? (ships/enemy variety/soundtracks)

Darius is a shmup series Ive never played but always been interested in due to the fish theme of the enemies would this one be an ok spot to jump in?
 

Soupbones

Member
Oct 26, 2017
514
Hey guys, can anyone give me any opinions on Dariusburst chronicles? I knew of the game when it came out but was turned away by the steep price. Recently I have been looking into games in this genre again and have been giving it some consideration again. Exactly how much content does the game have? and what content does the dlc have? is the dlc worth getting?

I see that there are two modes to the game one with 200 stages and another with over 1000. Is there enough variation in this game to make it worth playing that long? (ships/enemy variety/soundtracks)

Darius is a shmup series Ive never played but always been interested in due to the fish theme of the enemies would this one be an ok spot to jump in?
If there’s a shmup that warrants a high price tag, it’s DC. The game has an amazing amount of content, unlockables and modes.

I can’t say I’ve played thru all of it, because it’s A LOT, but it’s all served up in small chunks, so you still get the sense of completion.

Variety is ok - you’re obviously not getting 200 (or 1000) different sets of backgrounds and enemies, but I think it is enough.

I still play this game occasionally every year - long after it’s release. It’s a really good shooter, and my favorite Darius game.

It has some fantastic DLC - Space Harrier, Night Striker, Dodonpachi, Fantasy Zone, Progear, etc - each with its own music, player ship and mode. However, it’s typically $8 a pop, which might be a hard pill to swallow on top of the game‘s asking price.

Personally I think it’s worth every penny - it’s one of the only shooters that celebrates the genre like this.
 

eddiemunstr

Member
Jan 20, 2019
551
If there’s a shmup that warrants a high price tag, it’s DC. The game has an amazing amount of content, unlockables and modes.

I can’t say I’ve played thru all of it, because it’s A LOT, but it’s all served up in small chunks, so you still get the sense of completion.

Variety is ok - you’re obviously not getting 200 (or 1000) different sets of backgrounds and enemies, but I think it is enough.

I still play this game occasionally every year - long after it’s release. It’s a really good shooter, and my favorite Darius game.

It has some fantastic DLC - Space Harrier, Night Striker, Dodonpachi, Fantasy Zone, Progear, etc - each with its own music, player ship and mode. However, it’s typically $8 a pop, which might be a hard pill to swallow on top of the game‘s asking price.

Personally I think it’s worth every penny - it’s one of the only shooters that celebrates the genre like this.
Thanks, I think I might wait a month or two to see if it goes on sale again (I checked and I just missed it being on sale not too long ago)before picking it up with a dlc pack or two.
 

ChryZ

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,841
Direct feed footage of R-Type Final 2 ... its predecessor was already cinematic AF, but this is REALLY striking:

 

Soupbones

Member
Oct 26, 2017
514
So does Shikhondo just straight up not support sticks? Tried both my ps4 sticks and no response at the title menu.
It’s a known bug with most sticks - Digeratti has inown about it since launch, but i guess havent patched it.

Good news is i found a work around: simply launch the game with your DS4, press the X button to get to the menu, then swap to your stick. You’re stick will work unil you shut the game down.
 

SmiteOfHand

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,814
It’s a known bug with most sticks - Digeratti has inown about it since launch, but i guess havent patched it.

Good news is i found a work around: simply launch the game with your DS4, press the X button to get to the menu, then swap to your stick. You’re stick will work unil you shut the game down.
Minor inconvenience. Thanks for the tip!
 

eddiemunstr

Member
Jan 20, 2019
551
Hey guys, I was wondering if anyone knew how input lag is on the switch ports of various shmups, but more specifically the psikyo games. Ive seen complaints of input lag from zerodiv ports and just as many saying they are fine. Are these switch ports ok to play?

Also any recommendations for which switch shmups offer the best bang for your buck? I feel like I should probably pick up some of those first before I start spending money purchasing games I already owned on older hardware.
 
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clippa

Member
Apr 18, 2018
136
MarkMSX has some numbers up on his site here

Everyone's threshold for input lag is different.
7 frames of lag at 60fps would be 112ms which is around a tenth of a second which doesn't sound too bad on paper, but you'd have to feel it to know whether it would be a problem for you.

I'd just stick to shmupmame for those psikyo games if I were you, turn off vsync and crank up your refresh rate.

Neko Navy, black bird and rolling gunner are all excellent, plenty of replay value and won't break the bank. Black bird goes on sale quite often if you don't mind waiting. Mecha Ritz Steel Rondo is getting a switch release soon, that's really good.
 

eddiemunstr

Member
Jan 20, 2019
551
MarkMSX has some numbers up on his site here

Everyone's threshold for input lag is different.
7 frames of lag at 60fps would be 112ms which is around a tenth of a second which doesn't sound too bad on paper, but you'd have to feel it to know whether it would be a problem for you.

I'd just stick to shmupmame for those psikyo games if I were you, turn off vsync and crank up your refresh rate.

Neko Navy, black bird and rolling gunner are all excellent, plenty of replay value and won't break the bank. Black bird goes on sale quite often if you don't mind waiting. Mecha Ritz Steel Rondo is getting a switch release soon, that's really good.
Thanks for the link to that chart, Kinda disappointing to see the psikyo games on the higher end of the list. I might give one of them a purchase just to try it out though. Also thanks for the recommendation of black bird; after looking into it a bit more it seems to be a much better game than I had originally given it credit for. I will wait for it to be on a sale though as you said.
 

Protmind

Member
Oct 27, 2017
50
Did the PSN version of Dariusbust Chronicle Saviours come with the digital version of the Darius Odyssey book? The Degica site (https://darius.jp/dbcs/en/products/) mentions this, but the PSN store page doesn't say anything about it. Can anyone confirm if it was included in the US PS4 digital version like it is in the Steam version? It's DLC in the Steam version apparently.
 

Dash Kappei

Member
Nov 1, 2017
2,055
Thanks for the link to that chart, Kinda disappointing to see the psikyo games on the higher end of the list. I might give one of them a purchase just to try it out though. Also thanks for the recommendation of black bird; after looking into it a bit more it seems to be a much better game than I had originally given it credit for. I will wait for it to be on a sale though as you said.
I mean you can get stuff of the caliber of Dragon Blaze, Strikers, Gunbird for €7... seven euros. I’ll support them all, even tho I’d obviously prefer to pay €10 but have at least online leaderboards and a fucking scanline filter without vaseline applied on top... I seriously don’t understand why the hell it seems so difficult to get such a simple thing after 3 years of complaining about Hamster’s ACA/NGA releases, Johnny Turbo’s DATA EAST stuff (now published by City Connection) and all of the Psikyo’s ports.
 

ShinJohnpv

Member
Oct 25, 2017
707
MarkMSX has some numbers up on his site here

Everyone's threshold for input lag is different.
7 frames of lag at 60fps would be 112ms which is around a tenth of a second which doesn't sound too bad on paper, but you'd have to feel it to know whether it would be a problem for you.

I'd just stick to shmupmame for those psikyo games if I were you, turn off vsync and crank up your refresh rate.

Neko Navy, black bird and rolling gunner are all excellent, plenty of replay value and won't break the bank. Black bird goes on sale quite often if you don't mind waiting. Mecha Ritz Steel Rondo is getting a switch release soon, that's really good.
The thing I'd like to see is a baseline comparison. How do these numbers compare to the PCB for the Gunbird games or Strikers 1945 II. Reason I bring this up is that this doesn't take into account processing time. So like when Bob from RetroRGB does a lag test he does a similar set up, but includes a baseline. So if he was going to see how much lag is added to say the NSO SNES versions of Super Mario World, he would do this same lag test with an SNES, on a crt to set up a base number of frames that the game takes to react to a specific button press. Then does the new version and compares the numbers. I bring this up cause some shmups have a larger than expected number of processing frames and I don't know what that is on the Gunbird games or Strikers 1945 II. It could be 2 frames, or it could be 5. Which would make the actual lag number very different.

You need a baseline to figure out the actual lag. The number of frames from the button press of just 1 version doesn't give us the full picture is all I'm saying. These could be examples of really bad lag, or not much lag compared to the PCB version.

If he at least had shmupmame or groovymame numbers for those games it might give us some comparison. (for the psikyo games)
 

Vic_Viper

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,244
There was a thread made a few days ago about an awesome looking shmup game, but I cant remember what it was called! Anyone know what im looking for lol? It had some amazing art.

It wasnt side scrolling