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Should DMC5 remove its perceived tribute to Michael Jackson?

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ZeroX

ZeroX

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So DMC5 - after a previous controversy involving a sexual predator vocalist for a track in the game - has another issue in the game. Namely that it features a short scene featuring dance moves and sounds that are overwhelmingly linked to notorious pedophile Michael Jackson, who is recently back in the news due to the HBO documentary Leaving Neverland.




The response has been about what you'd expect...

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Obviously the scene in question was developed well in advance of the documentary's release so Capcom couldn't have seen the poor timing in conjunction with the documentary release, but allegations regarding Jackson's abuse have been around for 25 years at this point. The scene isn't necessary and would be (reasonably) easy to remove. It would not be removed from the internet, just the game. Removing Jackson's work and influences from modern media has been happening as radio stations are refusing to play his music and The Simpsons pulled an episode featuring Jackson.

"It feels clearly the only choice to make," executive producer James L. Brooks told the Wall Street Journal, which broke the news on Thursday. He told the paper that fellow executive producers Matt Groening and Al Jean agreed with the decision. "The guys I work with — where we spend our lives arguing over jokes — were of one mind on this," Brooks said.
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Capcom's only acknowledgment AFAIK has been to say that it's not actually a Michael Jackson reference... but a reference to somebody referencing Michael Jackson. Which doesn't really matter as the perception will be overwhelming that it's a positive nod to a pedophile:

"This is a fun fact that I don't think anybody knows yet," Walker said. "(Players) feel like that's kind of a Michael Jackson thing. Well in Japan, there's a link between that hat and the dancing. There was this pop star in Japan that would wear a hat like that and basically copped Michael Jackson's dance moves. So it's really a reference to that. In the West, we think it's a Michael Jackson reference even though it's not."
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Basically... should Capcom remove it? Here's a tweet that was retweeted from Al Jean, producer of The Simpsons that reflects the potential benefit to removing the scene and what it would signal to sexual abuse survivors.

 
Bish_Bosch

Bish_Bosch

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Apr 30, 2018
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I think the Simpsons made the right choice because it is literally Jackson himself and there may well be some issues with royalties from the airing of that episode. However, Jackson's dance moves are part of pop-culture and imitating them doesn't seem to be quite the same to me and if anything is parody.
 
s y

s y

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Nov 8, 2017
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big difference between the simpsons removing an episode featuring the actual, literal michael jackson and a game using dance moves made popular by the person.
 
Okabe

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Matt has explained this is not about a tribute to MJ but someone else.
 
JumpCancel

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If anything it's a tribute to the Michael Jackson the pop icon, with Dante imitating his signature moon walk and dance style. This hasn't been explicitly stated, but it's what I infered.

Don't make it into something it isn't.
 
ASleepingMonkey

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Oct 26, 2017
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no, it's not condoning those actions, it's just Dante being silly. It's poor timing maybe (they obviously couldn't have predicted this) but it's an overreaction to just pull it completely.
 

BillFromAccounting

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Jun 12, 2018
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Wasn't MJ like UNIVERSALLY found not guilty?

I haven't watched it, can someone post a TLDR of how this documentary has completely changed this fact?
 
Kudo

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s y said:
big difference between the simpsons removing an episode featuring the actual, literal michael jackson and a game using dance move made popular by the person.
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My thoughts exactly.
And since I don't follow news choiring with the others, what changed lately, wasn't MJ found not guilty? Any links appreciated.
 
Dust

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Inspired by Jackson's moves and Smooth Criminal hat, but there is no outright connection.
It's fine.
 
nsilvias

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no its a part of pop culture. mj dancing transcended him. this is like saying no one should ever do the moonwalk again.
 

Deleted member 2474

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Sometimes I have to think posts like this are deliberately stretching to find something to make a controversy about for internet points or trolling
 
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ZeroX

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Yagyujubei said:
Nope. It's a funny cutscene. that's all.
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So you think that the positives to the humor outweighs the potential trauma it could have to child sex abuse victims? I don't mean that in a snarky way, I mean that as a sincere question between balancing the line between comedy and the audience's sensitivities.

Oheao said:
The game was already well into development before the newfound revival so I think it gets a pass.
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The game is still in development though. They can patch it out. That's the question. I'm not criticizing it for the initial inclusion because as mentioned it would have been greenlit years ago. I'm not even saying they 100% should patch it out, I want to hear people's opinions.
 

Deleted member 5745

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Sometimes Era is woke and sometimes Era is WOKE.

On topic, I'd say it's fine since it's not even a tribute, as stated before.
 
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Zutrax

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Oct 31, 2017
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It's really unfortunate timing and an unfortunate reference due to that, but since it doesn't directly name/show MJ or play any of his music and just mimics his dancing, I think it mostly amounts to just wacky antics and should remain in the game.
 
denpanosekai

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Oct 28, 2017
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Dynamite Cop said:
The game or the notion the scene should be changed/removed?
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Shit, yeah sorry. Just the repercussions in general. Not really taking sides. But for example my father-in-law fucking loves thriller-era MJ, it's the soundtrack of his youth. What's he supposed to do? (yes I know the answer but it's not crystal clear to everyone)
 
Sephzilla

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You need to realize that this scene was mocapped at least a year or two ago. I don't think we should fault Capcom for not being able to look into the future.

Also, is nobody allowed to moonwalk anymore?

Edit: To be clear, if it would be removed then so be it.
 
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Drayco21

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Oct 25, 2017
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No, it's a pop culture reference that in no way implies an endorsement of the man, who's actual crimes are a point of contention anyway, nor does it actually have his involvement as an actor like the Simpson's.

Was it a great idea in 2019? Probably not. Is it worth removing? Absolutely not.
 
Kitschy Kitty

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Being found not guilty definitely means they didn't do anything, just ask OJ about the Goldman-Brown suicide debacle.
 
BurnKnuckle21

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He was never found guilty. No they shouldn't remove it just because a documentary came out. The alleged victims details and allegations are suspect anyway.
 
JigglesBunny

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The origin of the moves may come from Michael but I don't personally believe that there is any connection between Michael as a person and the sequence as they have far superseded Michael and are now ingrained in pop culture itself. The Simpsons case actually directly stars Michael which is a far more tenable connection for obvious reasons.

It's a tricky situation for sure but those were just my initial feelings about the situation when the scene came up. Could it be removed? Certainly. Will the backlash bandwagon unleash an onslaught of whining about "censorship?" Almost certainly. Perhaps it's best to leave this as is then, I don't know.
 
Man Called Aerodynamics

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Wow, using this thread to hash out MJ's guilt or innocence, lol. We get it, he wasn't convicted in a court of law, that's not really relevant here.

That said, I think they should not remove the scene. I don't think it is a contradiction to celebrate his art while also condemning his horrible behavior.
 
DrArchon

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Oct 25, 2017
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This is like that one article a while back that said people shouldn't make games based off Lovecraft anymore.

It's hard to argue to stop doing something when a) people are just referencing a bad person and not celebrating them, and b) they're dead and can't benefit from the references.
 
Sinder

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BillFromAccounting said:
Wasn't MJ like UNIVERSALLY found not guilty?

I haven't watched it, can someone post a TLDR of how this documentary has completely changed this fact?
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He groomed the two kids he fucked since the age of 6 to lie for him on the stand. It took all this time for them to admit it, as it would with any victim of this type of abuse for such a long time.

DrArchon said:
This is like that one article a while back that said people shouldn't make games based off Lovecraft anymore.

It's hard to argue to stop doing something when a) people are just referencing a bad person and not celebrating them, and b) they're dead and can't benefit from the references.
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Lovecraft didn't literally rape young children. I'm really tired of entertaining fools who want to bury their head in the sand, the music now hearkens directly back to widely accepted pedophilia.
 
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