If Rogen's endorsement gets votes, then the guilt/shame votes aren't far behind!
Shut the fuck up about how you won't be "bullied" to just vote for the Democrat no matter who: Trump threatens to cut funding to Cali over Abortion
- Thread starter excelsiorlef
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Whoever is the next Dem president they need to fight McConnell tooth and nail. No more letting him block a fucking supreme Court nominee for a whole year without doing something.
I voted for Bernie in the primary in 2016 and seeing how I live in a state that kind of matters with Michigan I ended up, for the first time dropping the idealouge bullshit and not voting for a third party for President and as dirty as I felt, voting for Hillary because there was much more important things to worry about if Trump and the Right wing fucks got their way, the Supreme Court could've been stacked with three new Justices that weren't Right Wing shits.
Now in 2020 there could two more seats that could be up after the election (one is almost certain to be with RGB) I'm voting for who ever the democratic nominee is again because there's still a lot more important things at stake than my ego or a candidate I don't like and a Trump second term is going to make his first term look progressive in comparison when he has no one to answer to, especially if congress's make up either doesn't change or changes for the worse. Does anyone want the Right to have a super majority in the Supreme Court or even more Right leaning judges appointed in the lower courts?
If you live in a state that's solidly blue like California then whatever but if you're in a purple state or one that went red last time and still won't vote for someone who isn't "your choice" then as this one guy who turned out to actually be kind of shitty once said... MOTHERFUCKER, it isn't always about you!
Now in 2020 there could two more seats that could be up after the election (one is almost certain to be with RGB) I'm voting for who ever the democratic nominee is again because there's still a lot more important things at stake than my ego or a candidate I don't like and a Trump second term is going to make his first term look progressive in comparison when he has no one to answer to, especially if congress's make up either doesn't change or changes for the worse. Does anyone want the Right to have a super majority in the Supreme Court or even more Right leaning judges appointed in the lower courts?
If you live in a state that's solidly blue like California then whatever but if you're in a purple state or one that went red last time and still won't vote for someone who isn't "your choice" then as this one guy who turned out to actually be kind of shitty once said... MOTHERFUCKER, it isn't always about you!
If we lucky Mitch and Lindsey both get voted out in November.
If the Democrats cannot win against an impeached hairpiece then it is because of who they nominated. It will not be because I voted on principle instead of voting blindly.
I think the type of people the OP is directing at are probably not even reading or posting in this forum. The OP seems unnecessarily aggressive and it's only going to make people shutdown.
Thats precisely whats so uncomfortable about this. Its just anger for angers sake.
Because we've been forced to do as such in pretty much every presidential election since we got the right to vote.
lmao meanwhile white people are out here telling candidates, "dazzle me and I'll consider it."
Unless you want a complete system change(and I mean complete abandonship of every single part of it), this whole "lesser of two evils" narrative is such bullshit. Obama not bringing enough good change is not categorical evil, it just should have been way better. Trump and Obama are not the same evil, Obama just being the lesser one. Except of course you want that complete change. Which is a absolute right demand to have. You just should know you are in the minority.
A hundred-thousand people with this mentality is enough to fuck up an election. But I know, it feels nice to absolve yourself of responsibility.
Voting on principle doesn’t absolve you of any less guilt as voting for the party that ends up doing crazy shit you allowed in right?
Again, not too worried about you because you’re from Cali like I am. But man, imagine if you were in another state? Would you make the same decision?
Ironically, this behavior will hurt us—from minorities to so-called white progressives—in the long run far more than what we THOUGHT would happen when we thought 2016 would deal republicans a fatal blow.
It’s crazy to me seeing how places like Fox News dangle the carrot of identity politics to rally their troops into a furious zeal. The same thing is happening on the other side, except it’s not explicitly framed as identity politics, but a Marxian economic framework where like Marx, doesn’t take into account intersectionality.
How do yall not see this?
Skin in the game...one thing I’ve learned while working in a rural area is, that’s true for a lot of people. They’re ambivalent about politics because they believe none of this stuff affects them. These are poor/middle-class folks whose worldviews are limited to the square mileage of forty-five-minute drive. They’re inoculated by their privilege of being white, but they would never realize this on their own. They’re the kind of types who aren’t explicitly racist but if I brought up the subject...it would be incomprehensible to them.
The portents are there. The clouds are gathering. Anyone bringing up polling in any capacity is not aware of what happened in 2016. The same mentalities and excuses playing out again. It baffles me a lot of people don't care about the microcosm and macrocosm, the local elections nor the long game with the Supreme Court. It's gonna be fucked up. I have zero faith on the intelligence or will of people, on both sides. The evil repubes vs the limp-dicked democrats. Sweet fucking Jesus.
What's the point of voting to beat trump if the person you voted for ultimately does nothing Ie climate change. If Biden won and we got trump out it would be pointless because climate change would kill us in a few years. He wouldn't do anything major to fix healthcare or any other problems so.......?
Because climate change won’t kill us all in a few years.
Holy hyperbole, Batman!
If you live in the US, climate change will very likely not even kill 1% of the American population within your human lifespan.
Biden's climate change plan isn't enough but it's a massive step forward. And climate change won't kill all of us in a few years.
Because of literally everything else Trumps done? If climate change and healthcare are your only problem with Trump, you haven't been paying attention.
It blows my mind how people were threatening Black folks & other marginalized groups with how bad things might get if we don't vote blue no matter who. We'll end up with what? Fewer resources? Left out of the conversation? Abusive police? Crumbling schools? Racism? White liberals telling minorities to vote blue no matter who is privileged because 95% of them don't have to way the choices/outcomes and deal with said consequences of their choice.
Bloomberg isn't gonna win obviously but the point still stands.
Bloomberg isn't gonna win obviously but the point still stands.
I know this is an old thread, but I wanted to say this for a while. I can't fault anyone for refusing to vote blue if the nominee ends up being Biden, Buttigeg or now Bloomberg. I draw the line at conscious action. The national conversation has been for progress and progressive candidates but the people are supposed to sit idly by as yet another moderate establishment goon is promoted to candidate. All this rallying for people barely better than Trump and then this screaming at the frustrated young people who watch as yet another 4 years of virtually no progress pass them by. Running an establishment goon is another ticket for 4 more years of Trump and if you are gonna cry and cry about the millenials and poc not towing the line, maybe consider that the line doesn't deserve to be towed anymore.
What about OPs point on abortion rights? RBG isn't going to be there forever.
This is like the reverse "Fuck you, got mine" mentality. "If US suffers from institutional racism already, you might as well make abortions illegal, cut environmental protections, make a targeted effort to throw immigrant children into cages and erode any and all discrimination protections for Trans folk."
Failing to vote against Trump can very, very possibly directly lead to abortion rights getting annihilated for decades to come. You can stick your finger in your ears all you want, but this is the consequence you are shrugging off and ignoring when going "Pf, won't make a difference to me anyway".
I remember when fucking everyone was shocked beyond recognition when Trump was elected 4 years ago. It just seemed impossible that a person this evil, this corrupt, this incompetent could ever get this position. He continued to be even worse than imagined. And now? Half of the Democratic Primary Candidates are getting regularly compared to Trump, as if everyone just fucking forgot who Trump is, what he has been saying the last 4 years and what he has spent his time doing. Remember Trump directly defending members of a Nazi rally after one of them killed an innocent counter-protester? Do you think that is something anyone else would have done in this field or that this was even comprehensible for anyone here 4 years ago?
Trump has been so utterly normalized by every part of the democratic base - Buttigieg supporters comparing Sanders to Trump, Sander supporters comparing Bloomberg & Biden to Trump, it's staggering to see. If you're doing this, you either didn't listen these last 4 years or you are acting willfully ignorant. None of these people are like Trump. Not classic Republican Bloomberg, not milquetoast Centrist Biden and not Sanders. None of them will destroy minority protections like Trump did, none of them will destroy social aid for low-income homes like he did and does, none of them will strengthen Russia & Turkey beyond anything they could have wished for 4 years ago, none of them will erode environmental advancements and protections on an international level, none of them will try to fucking ban muslims from entertering the US. Anyone remember that one? Try to the next time you try to compare fucking Biden to Trump.
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It's always interesting how black humanity is the one that HAS to be bargained or mortgaged away in favor of only a promise that better things will come.
And then y'all have the nerve to berate those same black constituents for daring to point out how fucking insulting that is lol.
Edit: And for the record, my line is firmly Bloomberg in the unlikely event he gets the nomination. I can live with everyone else. But no one - not even another black person - has the authority nor should they even think to have the gall to try and lecture a black individual on "what's better for them."
If only our allies spent this much time and effort shaming white folks instead of us lol.
The person who replied above you says differently. He's exactly the kind of person OP is directing at.
He wouldn't be making a joke out of us to other countries. He wouldn't be appointing supreme court nominees that are likely to give the republicans everything they want. He would be better at foreign relations. He may not piss off all our allies. He wouldn't be treating half hte country like they are the enemy. He wouldn't be fucking encouraging racists to come out of the closet (you haven't noticed how much more blatant racists have become since Trump is in office?) Trump is horrible for many reasons, not just for republican policies. I'm sure I've missed quite a few reasons he is horrible honestly... oh yeah!! he wouldn't be trying to turn the US into a fascist country and acting like a fucking dictator.
If you can make it through 4 more years of Trump so you don’t have to vote for anyone but your leftist darling then you are grossly privileged, insanely selfish, and probably don’t even care about social and economics justice issues as much as you think he is
The man needs to go, he is dangerous to many and much more than the charactiure the media hasn’t turned him into
The man needs to go, he is dangerous to many and much more than the charactiure the media hasn’t turned him into
Even if they complied with this, how long before it's "California must arrest anyone seeking or performing an abortion?"
Dear God...this isn't even about 'having our leftist darling' win so much as understanding why non-voters don't come out.
But go off I guess.
Shitting out terms like "privilege" and "selfish" means nothing in this regard.
This doesn't feel like an accurate representation of the situation? Obama wasn't great, and was disappointing in many ways, but Obamacare wasn't the status quo. It is very much too close to it, but the difference between Trump, who wants to (tried to and failed) gut Obamacare and Obama, who wanted something better than Obamacare but failed to achieve it, should be immediately noticeable. The difference isn't between no progress and no progress, the difference is often between some minor progress that still isn't good enough and barreling towards the gilded age. The difference is that when Republicans get in office, they not only drag us backwards, but they make it more difficult for changes that progressive causes want to see more difficult, if not impossible, in the future. With each supreme court seat lost, we make things difficult for future generations. And things are already stacked in the Republican's favor in the first place.
I think it's appearing increasingly likely that Sanders will be the nominee, and I vastly prefer him to Biden, so thank God. But there is a huge difference between a candidate like Biden on something like climate change and Trump. That doesn't mean that PoC should be shamed into voting for him if he is the nominee, but there should be a clear and undeniable difference, despite how much of a nightmare scenario Biden would be.
*I'm assuming that Obama would be considered a moderate, given that he appears to have attempted to moderate his positions/policies in an attempt to get Republican support.
*Bloomberg is basically a Republican, and I think that there ceases to be a clear and undeniable difference once it comes to him. I give up at trying to find the best Republican.
Does anyone who thinks that anyone who isn't Bernie is basically Trump think that Elizabeth Warren or even the Klob is going to go out of their way to prevent all climate change research within their admin?
Climate nihilism is on the rise because of extremist misinformation.
Especially concerning your Edit: That's not what I'm trying to say. Anyone bemoaning the catastrophic state the american democracy is in with voter suppression, a ridiculous two-party-system, failed checks and balances and a two-year-long election burning billions and billions of dollars is obviously 100% correct. Living in germany I have the great privilege of being able to decide between 5, 6, 7 viable parties and not having to support a right-centrist party simply because they also encompass the social democrats and Greens for whatever fucking reason. So I absolutely get how one would look at this entire system and just faint in frustration. Looking at the militarized police violence and continued, specific discrimination in form of Stop-and-Frisk etc. is reprehensible.
The anger at the democratic party specifically and the broken political system at large is not only justified, I'd argue it isn't nearly pronounced and all-encompassing enough for how utterly insane it is. None of this changes, however, that very specific protections and rights will go down the drain with Trump that would NOT get destroyed with Biden or even fucking Bloomberg.
More helpless people WILL die. More Immigrants WILL be killed, imprisoned, deported. More women WILL NOT be able to decide what's best for them, having to carry babies they don't want or can't care, leading to more abortions without doctors, leading in turn to more trauma, deaths and injuries. I'm simply focusing on US internal issues here, but of course it's also impossible to overstate the ripple effects Trump's presidency had on normalizing and establishing right wing extremism and anti-science-movements everywhere in the western world.
All of these things are differences between the candidates. I say that these differences are worth kicking out Trump no matter what. Are you able to ignore these differences because they possibly don't matter to you personally and the things that do matter to you don't get changed as much as they could have with another candidate? That's the question I struggle with. Because I just can't see how living in this society makes it desirable for anyone to make it even worse or equally as bad for other underprivliged groups of people or how that could be the "moral" thing to do.
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Have you met everyone talking about this? How do you have the gall to call everyone making a certain argument "privileged"? There's black people here talking about it, there's lgbt people talking about it, there's disabled people talking about it. In this thread! It's fucking disgusting to reduce every argument into a "you're privileged" shouting match when you don't know the first thing about the other person. Privilege is something important to acknowledge and talk about, it's not a cudgel you can use against everyone that steps out of line
Same applies to those who don’t want to see Bernie takenover the Democratic Party, but I don’t think there are many Never Bernie people here
And there is a whole lot of privilege that comes with not becoming a victim of an inhuman zero tolerance border policy, racist criminal justice system, or a general target of Trump’s racist rhetoric. There’s also a lot of stupidity when it comes to ignoring the consequences re-electing a thug like Trump will have on our democracy
A part of me understands not wanting to vote for Bloomberg for many of the same reasons, though
What gave you the idea that non-voters aren't victims of these hateful circumstances themselves? What gave you the idea that they haven't been victims of the powers that be long before Trump came in? When you picture a non-voter, who are you thinking of?
These aren't well off people we're talking about here.
Call non-voters whatever you like, Lord knows how many labels there are for them, but understand that words like "privilege" do not belong in this conversation.
It's condescending.
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