• Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
Status
Not open for further replies.

Domcorleone

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,191
Tired of this "you don't care" or "it must not affect you" shit. I am disabled. I live below the poverty line. It always has an effect on me. Every single day of my life is ruled by who is in our government.

No, I am not "privileged" because after nearly 2 decades of voting every at every single possible chance in local, state, federal, etc elections that I for once absolutely refuse to vote D no matter what. I will no longer just get trampled over as you assholes demand that I vote for a candidate that represents corporations and the upper classes and does not care about me at all or else you shout that I'm just as bad as a Nazi. Telling a poor and disabled person that shit is the HEIGHT of privilege on *your* part.

Do better, or you turn a nearly 20 year always D voter into someone who writes in a different candidate instead of the Dem front runner.

It seems as though your logic is "they havent done anything for me therefore why support them", which to a degree absolutely makes sense. But that is where being selfless comes into play - even though your vote serves no benefit to you it serves a benefit to the country and potentially the world (given his stance on climate change).

Your response to me just confirms my original assessment which is you are being a bit selfish. In life sometimes you have to decide between bad and not as bad, and this is the situation we are faced with in 2020.
 
Mar 9, 2018
3,766
I'm on team Bernie because he's the best, shiniest, and most impressive candidate of them all by far. His defects pale in comparison to his strengths and the defects of his rivals. And I think Biden and Kamala and Hillary and Buttigieg and many others are worse than just "not as good": they're absolutely rotten.

But if you care about other people and our environment, the extremist right must suffer a major electoral defeat wherever and whenever possible.

I will vote against Trump no matter what.
 
Oct 27, 2017
15,020
Nah fuck this shit.

Your post is literally the erosion of women's rights is awful but telling people to vote to stop it is mean.

Fight in the Primary, come home in the general.


If this title makes you feel attacked, reflect on why.

I'm not American but I agree with your stance. At this point all that matters is getting someone - anyone - else in the White House. Just need to tread water for 8 years until AOC can run!
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,948
I'm not sure how the thread is "sowing discord" if it's targeting people who are already detached from voting out Trump. The "discord" is already theirs and they deserve to be called out for it.

So is it shaming just for the sake of shaming? I don't see how anything is gained at all. Is this approach really going to work? I guess some could call my response thread whining, but I don't see how this is any different from making a thread that says "If you're a Republican, you're a piece of shit."

I really feel that this kind of approach just makes people less likely to listen to you. Should every trump news thread include a subtitle that says "This is on you, Democrat fence-sitters!" It feels like pure catharsis with otherwise zero gain.
 

Deleted member 31817

Nov 7, 2017
30,876
How do you not realize that asking a disabled person (in a very leading way and condescending way) if they're volunteering for someone is fucked up? You don't even know what their disability is.
I don't and they didn't specify or say they even had a disability in the post I quoted.

I have my own medical issues that will completely fuck over my economical state forever if republican healthcare legislation keeps happening 🤷‍♂️
 

Sean

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,591
Longview
Are you volunteering for Sanders and Warren?

The best I can do is outreach through my own family and people I personally know. I can't exactly get out much due to my circumstances and I have no resources to speak of. Thankfully, I am lucky enough to have grown up in a very far left household and it's not that much work to get us on the same page. I also go to weekly peer support with other poor and disabled people and if it's an appropriate time and place I'll talk about it with them.
 

Deleted member 3896

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,815
Tired of this "you don't care" or "it must not affect you" shit. I am disabled. I live below the poverty line. It always has an effect on me. Every single day of my life is ruled by who is in our government.

No, I am not "privileged" because after nearly 2 decades of voting every at every single possible chance in local, state, federal, etc elections that I for once absolutely refuse to vote D no matter what. I will no longer just get trampled over as you assholes demand that I vote for a candidate that represents corporations and the upper classes and does not care about me at all or else you shout that I'm just as bad as a Nazi. Telling a poor and disabled person that shit is the HEIGHT of privilege on *your* part.

Do better, or you turn a nearly 20 year always D voter into someone who writes in a different candidate instead of the Dem front runner.
I'm sorry for your circumstances. That fucking sucks.

It's not the same, but I have had to hold my nose in every single election in my life. As a queer person, I have never once felt a candidate was fully satisfactory. I have definitely felt the impulse to say "fuck it" and "fuck [insert candidate's name here]" but thinking on the SC always moves the needle for me personally. I would love if everyone supported their choice in the primary then was all in for whoever the nom is. It's the only way we're ever going to get through this mess.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,227
Tired of this "you don't care" or "it must not affect you" shit. I am disabled. I live below the poverty line. It always has an effect on me. Every single day of my life is ruled by who is in our government.

No, I am not "privileged" because after nearly 2 decades of voting every at every single possible chance in local, state, federal, etc elections that I for once absolutely refuse to vote D no matter what. I will no longer just get trampled over as you assholes demand that I vote for a candidate that represents corporations and the upper classes and does not care about me at all or else you shout that I'm just as bad as a Nazi. Telling a poor and disabled person that shit is the HEIGHT of privilege on *your* part.

Do better, or you turn a nearly 20 year always D voter into someone who writes in a different candidate instead of the Dem front runner.
You're making a mistake when you assume that no one else here is disadvantaged. You have every right to feel like you aren't represented, but that doesn't excuse not voting.
 
Oct 26, 2017
7,961
South Carolina
And as we've seen today, he loves to threaten bodily/financial/career harm on people. In his cholesterol, narcissism, and stress-addled mind, we are but insects to crush or toys to break once the infatuation is gone.

PS: Don't no one in this world give a shit about anyone else's ego, and no one's ego is worth more than any well-being of anyone else. No one's.
 

¡ B 0 0 P !

Banned
Apr 4, 2019
2,915
Greater Toronto Area
I'm on team Bernie because he's the best, shiniest, and most impressive candidate of them all by far. His defects pale in comparison to his strengths and the defects of his rivals. And I think Biden and Kamala and Hillary and Buttigieg and many others are worse than just "not as good": they're absolutely rotten.

But if you care about other people and our environment, the extremist right must suffer a major electoral defeat wherever and whenever possible.

I will vote against Trump no matter what.

As a Canadian looking in as an outsider this is how I see it. Yes Sanders and Warren would be the best choices. But the real battle is stopping the GOP and Trump.
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,948
Pretty sure OP is talking about people like me, who aren't just going to automatically vote for the democratic nominee simply because they are the democratic nominee and instead decide to hold even democrats to a standard, and one that senile racists like Joe Biden can't meet.

Telling people like me to "shut the fuck up and vote" isn't even close to the worst that OP and others have said, either. I've literally been called a white supremacist sympathizer on this forum for saying I will not automatically vote for Biden, in part because he's a massive racist who courted other racists to stop segregation and then lied about marching for civil rights and authored a massively racist crime bill that has devastated the black community for the past 25 years. I've also been told I don't care about the LGBTQ+ community, or any minorities, and that I'm a selfish privileged asshole etc. blah blah a bloooo

I guess they think it's an effective strategy (and they'll try it again in response to this post I am sure). It isn't, but nothing I say is going to convince them otherwise so I don't even try discussing the issue anymore. I'm done choosing between the lesser of two increasingly evil options, as far as I'm concerned the logic on display in the OP is exactly how we ended up having to choose between two of the worst possible candidates in history in 2016, and a bunch of random people calling me names on the internet isn't going to change that. IMO we need actual change, we need to hold the left to higher standards than Diamond Joe fucking Biden. I'm done with "vote for me because I'm all you've fucking got" logic.

For the record I will gladly vote for either Warren or Sanders, and in the unlikely event that Buttigieg is the nominee I'll grit my teeth and vote for him, too. Maybe my math would change if I lived in a state that wasn't pretty solidly blue, but I doubt it.

I would literally drive 50 miles to vote for a piece of asparagus over Trump and my first internal response to this thread title was pretty much "fuck off op". I just don't get it.
 

Deleted member 49482

User requested account closure
Banned
Nov 8, 2018
3,302
I am not a Trump voter, no matter how much you scream it.
You may not be, but you're at least apathetic to Biden or Trump being the president, in this hypothetical where Biden wins the Democratic presidential nomination. Because if you're being realistic, we are getting either Biden or Trump in that scenario.

You may see them as equivalents, in that you're apathetic enough to the assured outcome that you don't care to vote your preference in what is pragmatically a two-candidate zero-sum scenario, and I'm not going to question your perspective. However, I think that type of apathy is generally misguided in this case because there are major and material differences in the platforms of Trump across a wide-range of views and in how each would functionally run the government, set the tone for discourse in our society, and position U.S. relations with the rest of the world.

If your aim is also a farther-left agenda, I personally think having another four years of Trump moves us much further from that goal, and it will take a much longer time to reverse some of those losses, compared to even the most moderate of Democrats. With another four years of Republican court nominees and continuing gerrymandering (remember when the Republican leaning Supreme Court ruled 5-4 last year that federal courts cannot determine whether election maps are too partisan?), I'm resigning myself to the expectation that Sanders/Warren-style progressive policies unlikely to occur for the majority of my adult life, if ever before I die, barring some massive societal disaster (e.g., Great Depression-type economic downturn, subjugation of the working class to the extent a legitimate rebellion is required).

(Disclaimer: I don't want Biden to me president either, so hey, at least we have that in common.)
 

alr1ght

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,047
It's cool to me that on this forum, you can tell someone who's been disabled and below the poverty line his entire life while voting D that they're selfish and life isn't perfect.

Just utter disgust at all of you.
1. I was responding to an old post, not commenting on any disability
2. He is being selfish and no candidate is going to tick off every box he wants.
 

jviggy43

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
18,184
Is the goal with this to change people's mind or just a general venting thread? If its the latter I totally get it but if its the former the thread speaks for itself in terms of illustrating what a poor strategy this has in changing anyone's mind who fits that description (as is currently being evidence by the dog piling on a few posters who aren't changing their mind here).
 

maxxpower

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,950
California
As a Canadian looking in as an outsider this is how I see it. Yes Sanders and Warren would be the best choices. But the real battle is stopping the GOP and Trump.
We can stop Trump, but we're never stopping the GOP unless we add some more states. They'll always have a majority in the Senate. The same Senate majority that blocked all of Obama's shit.
 
Oct 27, 2017
7,974
It would 1000% be better than Trump for the courts. Imagine the shit we will see with the fucks that Trump put on the bench?
Wasting your breath unfortunately. The appointment of Judges is arguably the most important issue of our lifetimes and it's being brushed aside by some because they don't get exactly what they want
 

BADMAN

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,887
Rude

I think we're really bad here at shaming anger.

As if anger is inappropriate and never just.
Righteous anger is more blinding than regular anger. Your methods hold no weight and exist only for catharsis, hurting people in the process. I'm sure there's more reason behind this thread than getting off on shaming people right?
 

DiscoShark

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
479
We can stop Trump, but we're never stopping the GOP unless we add some more states. They'll always have a majority in the Senate. The same Senate majority that blocked all of Obama's shit.
Obama held the Senate for most of his two terms - it was the House he lost almost immediately. This notion that Democrats will never have a majority in the Senate is revisionist history - they can and have held it in the modern day, it's a question of whether or not they can run candidates and a platform that speak to the people in these states.
 

Alternade

Member
Oct 27, 2017
711
User banned (1 month): Drive-by trolling, callous and inflammatory rhetoric
Honestly maybe we should starve the flyover states. Teach them how much of a leech they are to the rest of the country
 
OP
OP
excelsiorlef

excelsiorlef

Bad Praxis
Member
Oct 25, 2017
73,316
Righteous anger is more blinding than regular anger. Your methods hold no weight and exist only for catharsis, hurting people in the process. I'm sure there's more reason behind this thread than getting off on shaming people right?

I mean it exposes that people are more apt to be mad at me than Trump exposing that even blue states are fucked under him.

I didn't name one specific person and yet here we are with people overtly admitting they're gonna sit out. At least it's bringing truth to light.

But please spare me that I am hurting people. You know what actually is going to hurt people, RBG dying with Trump as President, women's rights being curtailed, queer rights being curtailed, but hey vote your conscience right?

Like honestly as if you can sit there and accuse me of hurting people because I have no respect for people who refuse to vote against Trump
 

Kirblar

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
30,744

Muitnorts

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
2,141
I'm just an observer from the UK (after our horrific elections) but I feel like Trump is being too blatant and arrogant…
 

meowdi gras

Member
Feb 24, 2018
12,618
It's one thing for non-Republican folks (like myself) to vehemently insist on voting, no matter whom the Dem party candidate. However, it crosses a line when people make assumptions about what you're going to do in the booth on Election Day just because you prefer not to make public pledges about it. Attacking the discreet is not cool.
 

Deleted member 48897

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 22, 2018
13,623
The alternative to DADT might have been a lot worse. DADT was a compromise so that gay people coult even serve at all, at the time the option was either DADT or no gay people serving at all. It was a very perilous time for gay rights.

Like there's a very good reason Clinton did what he did and it's not his perceived homophobia (of which I don't think there's any actual evidence of)

To be clear I'm not here because I want to throw a Bill Clinton shame party (that's happening on Little Saint James island during spring break) but because Clinton's compromises on policy we regard improving on as necessary and vital should be all the evidence we need that this is a difficult problem whose solution is much bigger than just "vote for the democrat nominee".
 

Gotdatmoney

Member
Oct 28, 2017
14,487
End of the day it's the responsibility of the party to invigorate voters and make them want to support you. Looking at non voters with extreme contempt just absolves political parties of their one fucking purpose, garnering support to enact their dogma. I say this as someone who gets pissed at non voters bitching about policy.

That said, I find it amusing comparing people who view voting as their own personal diary of desires vs a tool to help create the most positive outcome for society. Like write in a vote if you want but what is your end goal? Just to say you followed a pointless moral code which in the grand scheme may cause suffering for millions? Lol so noble.
 

Stinkles

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
20,459
To be clear I'm not here because I want to throw a Bill Clinton shame party (that's happening on Little Saint James island during spring break) but because Clinton's compromises on policy we regard improving on as necessary and vital should be all the evidence we need that this is a difficult problem whose solution is much bigger than just "vote for the democrat nominee".

Sure but in 2020 if you don't vote you may permanently eliminate those potential solutions for millions of people.
 

MindofKB

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
1,077
Bay Area
It's disheartening to see that ERA is so inconsistent in its views toward shaming.

So many threads pop up here about how shaming is wrong and how it doesn't work.

Then we have threads pop up like this, smh.
 

BADMAN

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,887
I mean it exposes that people are more apt to be mad at me than Trump exposing that even blue states are fucked under him.

I didn't name one specific person and yet here we are with people overtly admitting they're gonna sit out. At least it's bringing truth to light.

But please spare me that I am hurting people. You know what actually is going to hurt people, RBG dying with Trump as President, women's rights being curtailed, queer rights being curtailed, but hey vote your conscience right?

Like honestly as if you can sit there and accuse me of hurting people because I have no respect for people who refuse to vote against Trump
I won't spare you anything. Tell me how "exposing" these people helps your cause. Tell me how all these people shitting on others due to your thread helps your cause.
 

NeoGold123

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
502
Write ins and not voting for the front runner are part of what got Trump elected in the first place.

Just vote for whoever is in the lead against Trump when that time comes.
 
OP
OP
excelsiorlef

excelsiorlef

Bad Praxis
Member
Oct 25, 2017
73,316
I won't spare you anything. Tell me how "exposing" these people helps your cause. Tell me how all these people shitting on others due to your thread helps your cause.

It means everything they try to argue in future threads can be filtered through the honest answer that they're just not that concerned.
 

Mekanos

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 17, 2018
44,125
Honestly maybe we should starve the flyover states. Teach them how much of a leech they are to the rest of the country

What the fuck is this post

There are people in flyover states that vote for Trump so they should all die even if minorities and vulnerable people live there

???

What is going on in this thread
 

jviggy43

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
18,184
I won't spare you anything. Tell me how "exposing" these people helps your cause. Tell me how all these people shitting on others due to your thread helps your cause.
The answer is, its not. I'm unsure if anyone thought this was supposed to be a productive way to reach these people but it seems to me its just a general venting thread so people can pat themselves on the back and everyone involved just further entrenches themselves into the positions they already held coming into the discussion.
 

Deleted member 4346

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,976
It means everything they try to argue in future threads can be filtered through the honest answer that they're just not that concerned.

This is such dishonest framing. Speaking only for myself, I'm extremely concerned about the future of both the US and the world. We are facing ecological crisis. We are facing neo-fascism. We are facing economic collapse. We are in endless war.

Pretending that these are problems that can be solved by liberal incrementalism or backsliding signals to me that people aren't serious about facing reality.
 

Deleted member 32561

User requested account closure
Banned
Nov 11, 2017
3,831
Nice job, y'all, comparing disabled people who are actively disadvantaged by your favored candidate's past positions and likely future positions (I can see no other reason why you'd try to force someone to vote for Joe FUCKING Biden) to MAGA chuds. You're not showing YOUR ableism and privilege at all. Never thought I'd see Era be a bunch of ableist bullies, but, well, here we are. Also spare me using black voters as a shield and bludgeon, when polls show consistently, again and again, there's a clear split even among black voters- support for Bernie vs. Biden is not a race issue, it's a generational issue. It also sets up the argument that anyone but white, cis, straight voters (sadly, for some reason, white, cis straight women helped get him elected too) got Trump elected, which is far from the case.

Also, let's get this straight. We have someone who, in this very topic, has been negatively effected by policies similar to the ones that have been put forward by the candidate they refuse to vote for. Surely, they aren't some strange outlier. And often, electability is brought up... Rarely, if ever, do we see marginalized voters say "I'm not voting for anyone in the main election but Biden or Pete", but instead "I'm not voting for anyone but Bernie or Warren in the main election". This in mind, to those of you "tut-tutting" non-voters' because voting blue no matter who is ostensibly for marginalized people's sake: is it not, instead, your moral prerogative to vote and promote a candidate most marginalized people would feel comfortable voting for? I mean, we all see what voting for a centrist Dem did for us last time- the ACTUAL most important election in this country's history.

To be honest, what argument can you possible proffer me that voting for anyone but Bernie or Warren in the primary, isn't a vote for Trump, if you argue "well, you're voting for Trump then" if someone sits out in the main election? If we're deciding the shame game is an acceptable tactic, why is it not an acceptable tactic for the primary first and foremost? 'cause lemme tell you, Diamond Joe and Pete aren't going to solve the problems of marginalized people, least of all the two things that are effecting marginalized people the most in America right now- healthcare and the climate crisis- among other very, very important issues.

And, if you really do, for some ridiculous reason, think Biden cares about marginalized voters, particularly those in the group the person you're talking to is in: prove it. Calmly. Explain why he's actually a better choice compared to the others in the primary based on both his track record and what he's saying now. Saying "no, you have to vote for him, because I said so and he has a D next to his name" wins you very little sympathy from people who have been fucked over, over and over again. There's a reason people don't vote (besides accessibility issues)- it's because they feel like their voice, their problems, are being actively ignored by the people who claim they care. This goes for both politicians and the people shouting down at them and making them feel lower than dirt for being of a marginalized group.

Like, I mean, I am going to vote blue regardless. But I'm also fairly privileged myself in spite of my mental issues and my sexuality. Even then, I can see and empathize with why someone would see Biden and go "well, things aren't going to be any better for marginalized people with him", even if I disagree. Perhaps those of you with privilege due to your race, gender identity, sexuality, ability, or economic class should too.

Obviously, if some straight, cis, middle-class-or-higher white person with no disabilities sits out of the election, fuck them. But most people saying "oh I'm not voting for Biden" are that. These are people who have been FUCKED by Joe and people like him, just like, you know, people who sat out last time were fucked by Hillary and people like her. Women. People of color. Disabled folks. The LGBTQ+ community. The poor. Centrist democrats are not truly our allies, they only pretend to give a shit to stretch the big tent to its breaking point and give progressive democrats reason to not split off into a third party. This is blatantly obvious when you compare the old rhetoric of a lot of long-time Democrats and their newer rhetoric while still refusing to actually update their policies to anything useful.

Rude

I think we're really bad here at shaming anger.

As if anger is inappropriate and never just.
Well, unless the anger comes from a poor disabled person, they need to shut up and get in line behind the person who wants to fuck them over, right?
Wasting your breath unfortunately. The appointment of Judges is arguably the most important issue of our lifetimes and it's being brushed aside by some because they don't get exactly what they want
Stopping the climate crisis is far more important, yet we still see people stooging for Biden, lol. Seriously, with his utterly pathetic game plan for climate change, it's game over for not just America, but the world, if we get him, a single judge isn't going to stop rising tides and wildfires, and with the current supreme court's makeup of ideology, you're not going to see a bill okaying the shooting or rouding up of climate refugees trying to escape their conditions get overturned. You'd have to replace a shitton of seats to do that, and with specifically progressive, not centrist, judges. And there aren't exactly a lot of those.

Of course, we wouldn't even be in this situation if we had beaten Trump in 2016. Oops.

Honestly maybe we should starve the flyover states. Teach them how much of a leech they are to the rest of the country
There. Are. Marginalized. People. In. Flyover. States.
 

jviggy43

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
18,184
It means everything they try to argue in future threads can be filtered through the honest answer that they're just not that concerned.
And this helps the situation, how?

Nice job, y'all, comparing disabled people who are actively disadvantaged by your favored candidate's past positions and likely future positions (I can see no other reason why you'd try to force someone to vote for Joe FUCKING Biden) to MAGA chuds. You're not showing YOUR ableism and privilege at all. Never thought I'd see Era be a bunch of ableist bullies, but, well, here we are. Also spare me using black voters as a shield and bludgeon, when polls show consistently, again and again, there's a clear split even among black voters- support for Bernie vs. Biden is not a race issue, it's a generational issue. It also sets up the argument that anyone but white, cis, straight voters (sadly, for some reason, white, cis straight women helped get him elected too) got Trump elected, which is far from the case.

Also, let's get this straight. We have someone who, in this very topic, has been negatively effected by policies similar to the ones that have been put forward by the candidate they refuse to vote for. Surely, they aren't some strange outlier. And often, electability is brought up... Rarely, if ever, do we see marginalized voters say "I'm not voting for anyone in the main election but Biden or Pete", but instead "I'm not voting for anyone but Bernie or Warren in the main election". This in mind, to those of you "tut-tutting" non-voters' because voting blue no matter who is ostensibly for marginalized people's sake: is it not, instead, your moral prerogative to vote and promote a candidate most marginalized people would feel comfortable voting for? I mean, we all see what voting for a centrist Dem did for us last time- the ACTUAL most important election in this country's history.

To be honest, what argument can you possible proffer me that voting for anyone but Bernie or Warren in the primary, isn't a vote for Trump, if you argue "well, you're voting for Trump then" if someone sits out in the main election? If we're deciding the shame game is an acceptable tactic, why is it not an acceptable tactic for the primary first and foremost? 'cause lemme tell you, Diamond Joe and Pete aren't going to solve the problems of marginalized people, least of all the two things that are effecting marginalized people the most in America right now- healthcare and the climate crisis- among other very, very important issues.

And, if you really do, for some ridiculous reason, think Biden cares about marginalized voters, particularly those in the group the person you're talking to is in: prove it. Calmly. Explain why he's actually a better choice compared to the others in the primary based on both his track record and what he's saying now. Saying "no, you have to vote for him, because I said so and he has a D next to his name" wins you very little sympathy from people who have been fucked over, over and over again. There's a reason people don't vote (besides accessibility issues)- it's because they feel like their voice, their problems, are being actively ignored by the people who claim they care. This goes for both politicians and the people shouting down at them and making them feel lower than dirt for being of a marginalized group.

Like, I mean, I am going to vote blue regardless. But I'm also fairly privileged myself in spite of my mental issues and my sexuality. Even then, I can see and empathize with why someone would see Biden and go "well, things aren't going to be any better for marginalized people with him", even if I disagree. Perhaps those of you with privilege due to your race, gender identity, sexuality, ability, or economic class should too.

Obviously, if some straight, cis, middle-class-or-higher white person with no disabilities sits out of the election, fuck them. But most people saying "oh I'm not voting for Biden" are that. These are people who have been FUCKED by Joe and people like him, just like, you know, people who sat out last time were fucked by Hillary and people like her. Women. People of color. Disabled folks. The LGBTQ+ community. The poor. Centrist democrats are not truly our allies, they only pretend to give a shit to stretch the big tent to its breaking point and give progressive democrats reason to not split off into a third party. This is blatantly obvious when you compare the old rhetoric of a lot of long-time Democrats and their newer rhetoric while still refusing to actually update their policies to anything useful.

Well, unless the anger comes from a poor disabled person, they need to shut up and get in line behind the person who wants to fuck them over, right? Stopping the climate crisis is far more important, yet we still see people stooging for Biden, lol. Seriously, with his utterly pathetic game plan for climate change, it's game over for not just America, but the world, if we get him, a single judge isn't going to stop rising tides and wildfires, and with the current supreme court's makeup of ideology, you're not going to see a bill okaying the shooting or rouding up of climate refugees trying to escape their conditions get overturned. You'd have to replace a shitton of seats to do that, and with specifically progressive, not centrist, judges. And there aren't exactly a lot of those.

Of course, we wouldn't even be in this situation if we had beaten Trump in 2016. Oops.

There. Are. Marginalized. People. In. Flyover. States.
Fucking Bravo. Lock the thread up. This is all that needs to be said here.
 
OP
OP
excelsiorlef

excelsiorlef

Bad Praxis
Member
Oct 25, 2017
73,316
This is such dishonest framing. Speaking only for myself, I'm extremely concerned about the future of both the US and the world. We are facing ecological crisis. We are facing neo-fascism. We are facing economic collapse. We are in endless war.

Pretending that these are problems that can be solved by liberal incrementalism or backsliding signals to me that people aren't serious about facing reality.

Who spoke of solved?

Stopping the bleeding isn't the end, it's the beginning.
 

platocplx

2020 Member Elect
Member
Oct 30, 2017
36,072
I don't care who the democratic nominee is. I'm voting for the partys full platform. That is what people should be lookinG at when choosing the president none of this falling in love with a candidate crap. They all represent the parties policies at the end of the day.
 

Deleted member 2620

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,491
Nice job, y'all, comparing disabled people who are actively disadvantaged by your favored candidate's past positions and likely future positions (I can see no other reason why you'd try to force someone to vote for Joe FUCKING Biden) to MAGA chuds. You're not showing YOUR ableism and privilege at all. Never thought I'd see Era be a bunch of ableist bullies, but, well, here we are. Also spare me using black voters as a shield and bludgeon, when polls show consistently, again and again, there's a clear split even among black voters- support for Bernie vs. Biden is not a race issue, it's a generational issue. It also sets up the argument that anyone but white, cis, straight voters (sadly, for some reason, white, cis straight women helped get him elected too) got Trump elected, which is far from the case.

Also, let's get this straight. We have someone who, in this very topic, has been negatively effected by policies similar to the ones that have been put forward by the candidate they refuse to vote for. Surely, they aren't some strange outlier. And often, electability is brought up... Rarely, if ever, do we see marginalized voters say "I'm not voting for anyone in the main election but Biden or Pete", but instead "I'm not voting for anyone but Bernie or Warren in the main election". This in mind, to those of you "tut-tutting" non-voters' because voting blue no matter who is ostensibly for marginalized people's sake: is it not, instead, your moral prerogative to vote and promote a candidate most marginalized people would feel comfortable voting for? I mean, we all see what voting for a centrist Dem did for us last time- the ACTUAL most important election in this country's history.

To be honest, what argument can you possible proffer me that voting for anyone but Bernie or Warren in the primary, isn't a vote for Trump, if you argue "well, you're voting for Trump then" if someone sits out in the main election? If we're deciding the shame game is an acceptable tactic, why is it not an acceptable tactic for the primary first and foremost? 'cause lemme tell you, Diamond Joe and Pete aren't going to solve the problems of marginalized people, least of all the two things that are effecting marginalized people the most in America right now- healthcare and the climate crisis- among other very, very important issues.

And, if you really do, for some ridiculous reason, think Biden cares about marginalized voters, particularly those in the group the person you're talking to is in: prove it. Calmly. Explain why he's actually a better choice compared to the others in the primary based on both his track record and what he's saying now. Saying "no, you have to vote for him, because I said so and he has a D next to his name" wins you very little sympathy from people who have been fucked over, over and over again. There's a reason people don't vote (besides accessibility issues)- it's because they feel like their voice, their problems, are being actively ignored by the people who claim they care. This goes for both politicians and the people shouting down at them and making them feel lower than dirt for being of a marginalized group.

Like, I mean, I am going to vote blue regardless. But I'm also fairly privileged myself in spite of my mental issues and my sexuality. Even then, I can see and empathize with why someone would see Biden and go "well, things aren't going to be any better for marginalized people with him", even if I disagree. Perhaps those of you with privilege due to your race, gender identity, sexuality, ability, or economic class should too.

Obviously, if some straight, cis, middle-class-or-higher white person with no disabilities sits out of the election, fuck them. But most people saying "oh I'm not voting for Biden" are that. These are people who have been FUCKED by Joe and people like him, just like, you know, people who sat out last time were fucked by Hillary and people like her. Women. People of color. Disabled folks. The LGBTQ+ community. The poor. Centrist democrats are not truly our allies, they only pretend to give a shit to stretch the big tent to its breaking point and give progressive democrats reason to not split off into a third party. This is blatantly obvious when you compare the old rhetoric of a lot of long-time Democrats and their newer rhetoric while still refusing to actually update their policies to anything useful.

Well, unless the anger comes from a poor disabled person, they need to shut up and get in line behind the person who wants to fuck them over, right? Stopping the climate crisis is far more important, yet we still see people stooging for Biden, lol. Seriously, with his utterly pathetic game plan for climate change, it's game over for not just America, but the world, if we get him, a single judge isn't going to stop rising tides and wildfires, and with the current supreme court's makeup of ideology, you're not going to see a bill okaying the shooting or rouding up of climate refugees trying to escape their conditions get overturned. You'd have to replace a shitton of seats to do that, and with specifically progressive, not centrist, judges. And there aren't exactly a lot of those.

Of course, we wouldn't even be in this situation if we had beaten Trump in 2016. Oops.

There. Are. Marginalized. People. In. Flyover. States.

get 'em, holy shit

Honestly maybe we should starve the flyover states. Teach them how much of a leech they are to the rest of the country
extra fuck this murderous nonsense
 
Status
Not open for further replies.