Shut the fuck up about how you won't be "bullied" to just vote for the Democrat no matter who: Trump threatens to cut funding to Cali over Abortion

[Lothars]

It's really weird that people think is all about telling you to vote Biden

It's also about telling others to vote Sanders

Or Warren.

If you think I have any less disgust for people who are Never Bernie.... you know nothing.

Click to shrink...

I agree, it's not about who the nominee is but supporting to make sure trump is out of office.

 

[How About No]

Nice job, y'all, comparing disabled people who are actively disadvantaged by your favored candidate's past positions and likely future positions (I can see no other reason why you'd try to force someone to vote for Joe FUCKING Biden) to MAGA chuds. You're not showing YOUR ableism and privilege at all. Never thought I'd see Era be a bunch of ableist bullies, but, well, here we are. Also spare me using black voters as a shield and bludgeon, when polls show consistently, again and again, there's a clear split even among black voters- support for Bernie vs. Biden is not a race issue, it's a generational issue. It also sets up the argument that anyone but white, cis, straight voters (sadly, for some reason, white, cis straight women helped get him elected too) got Trump elected, which is far from the case.

Also, let's get this straight. We have someone who, in this very topic, has been negatively effected by policies similar to the ones that have been put forward by the candidate they refuse to vote for. Surely, they aren't some strange outlier. And often, electability is brought up... Rarely, if ever, do we see marginalized voters say "I'm not voting for anyone in the main election but Biden or Pete", but instead "I'm not voting for anyone but Bernie or Warren in the main election". This in mind, to those of you "tut-tutting" non-voters' because voting blue no matter who is ostensibly for marginalized people's sake: is it not, instead, your moral prerogative to vote and promote a candidate most marginalized people would feel comfortable voting for? I mean, we all see what voting for a centrist Dem did for us last time- the ACTUAL most important election in this country's history.

To be honest, what argument can you possible proffer me that voting for anyone but Bernie or Warren in the primary, isn't a vote for Trump, if you argue "well, you're voting for Trump then" if someone sits out in the main election? If we're deciding the shame game is an acceptable tactic, why is it not an acceptable tactic for the primary first and foremost? 'cause lemme tell you, Diamond Joe and Pete aren't going to solve the problems of marginalized people, least of all the two things that are effecting marginalized people the most in America right now- healthcare and the climate crisis- among other very, very important issues.

And, if you really do, for some ridiculous reason, think Biden cares about marginalized voters, particularly those in the group the person you're talking to is in: prove it. Calmly. Explain why he's actually a better choice compared to the others in the primary based on both his track record and what he's saying now. Saying "no, you have to vote for him, because I said so and he has a D next to his name" wins you very little sympathy from people who have been fucked over, over and over again. There's a reason people don't vote (besides accessibility issues)- it's because they feel like their voice, their problems, are being actively ignored by the people who claim they care. This goes for both politicians and the people shouting down at them and making them feel lower than dirt for being of a marginalized group.

Like, I mean, I am going to vote blue regardless. But I'm also fairly privileged myself in spite of my mental issues and my sexuality. Even then, I can see and empathize with why someone would see Biden and go "well, things aren't going to be any better for marginalized people with him", even if I disagree. Perhaps those of you with privilege due to your race, gender identity, sexuality, ability, or economic class should too.

Obviously, if some straight, cis, middle-class-or-higher white person with no disabilities sits out of the election, fuck them. But most people saying "oh I'm not voting for Biden" are that. These are people who have been FUCKED by Joe and people like him, just like, you know, people who sat out last time were fucked by Hillary and people like her. Women. People of color. Disabled folks. The LGBTQ+ community. The poor. Centrist democrats are not truly our allies, they only pretend to give a shit to stretch the big tent to its breaking point and give progressive democrats reason to not split off into a third party. This is blatantly obvious when you compare the old rhetoric of a lot of long-time Democrats and their newer rhetoric while still refusing to actually update their policies to anything useful.

Well, unless the anger comes from a poor disabled person, they need to shut up and get in line behind the person who wants to fuck them over, right? Stopping the climate crisis is far more important, yet we still see people stooging for Biden, lol. Seriously, with his utterly pathetic game plan for climate change, it's game over for not just America, but the world, if we get him, a single judge isn't going to stop rising tides and wildfires, and with the current supreme court's makeup of ideology, you're not going to see a bill okaying the shooting or rouding up of climate refugees trying to escape their conditions get overturned. You'd have to replace a shitton of seats to do that, and with specifically progressive, not centrist, judges. And there aren't exactly a lot of those.

Of course, we wouldn't even be in this situation if we had beaten Trump in 2016. Oops.

There. Are. Marginalized. People. In. Flyover. States.

Click to shrink...

Bless this

This thread be FUCKED

 

[Deleted member 18502]

The last 7-8 pages are just relitigating other threads, nothing to do with op topic

 

[Deleted member 4346]

Nice job, y'all, comparing disabled people who are actively disadvantaged by your favored candidate's past positions and likely future positions (I can see no other reason why you'd try to force someone to vote for Joe FUCKING Biden) to MAGA chuds. You're not showing YOUR ableism and privilege at all. Never thought I'd see Era be a bunch of ableist bullies, but, well, here we are. Also spare me using black voters as a shield and bludgeon, when polls show consistently, again and again, there's a clear split even among black voters- support for Bernie vs. Biden is not a race issue, it's a generational issue. It also sets up the argument that anyone but white, cis, straight voters (sadly, for some reason, white, cis straight women helped get him elected too) got Trump elected, which is far from the case.

Also, let's get this straight. We have someone who, in this very topic, has been negatively effected by policies similar to the ones that have been put forward by the candidate they refuse to vote for. Surely, they aren't some strange outlier. And often, electability is brought up... Rarely, if ever, do we see marginalized voters say "I'm not voting for anyone in the main election but Biden or Pete", but instead "I'm not voting for anyone but Bernie or Warren in the main election". This in mind, to those of you "tut-tutting" non-voters' because voting blue no matter who is ostensibly for marginalized people's sake: is it not, instead, your moral prerogative to vote and promote a candidate most marginalized people would feel comfortable voting for? I mean, we all see what voting for a centrist Dem did for us last time- the ACTUAL most important election in this country's history.

To be honest, what argument can you possible proffer me that voting for anyone but Bernie or Warren in the primary, isn't a vote for Trump, if you argue "well, you're voting for Trump then" if someone sits out in the main election? If we're deciding the shame game is an acceptable tactic, why is it not an acceptable tactic for the primary first and foremost? 'cause lemme tell you, Diamond Joe and Pete aren't going to solve the problems of marginalized people, least of all the two things that are effecting marginalized people the most in America right now- healthcare and the climate crisis- among other very, very important issues.

And, if you really do, for some ridiculous reason, think Biden cares about marginalized voters, particularly those in the group the person you're talking to is in: prove it. Calmly. Explain why he's actually a better choice compared to the others in the primary based on both his track record and what he's saying now. Saying "no, you have to vote for him, because I said so and he has a D next to his name" wins you very little sympathy from people who have been fucked over, over and over again. There's a reason people don't vote (besides accessibility issues)- it's because they feel like their voice, their problems, are being actively ignored by the people who claim they care. This goes for both politicians and the people shouting down at them and making them feel lower than dirt for being of a marginalized group.

Like, I mean, I am going to vote blue regardless. But I'm also fairly privileged myself in spite of my mental issues and my sexuality. Even then, I can see and empathize with why someone would see Biden and go "well, things aren't going to be any better for marginalized people with him", even if I disagree. Perhaps those of you with privilege due to your race, gender identity, sexuality, ability, or economic class should too.

Obviously, if some straight, cis, middle-class-or-higher white person with no disabilities sits out of the election, fuck them. But most people saying "oh I'm not voting for Biden" are that. These are people who have been FUCKED by Joe and people like him, just like, you know, people who sat out last time were fucked by Hillary and people like her. Women. People of color. Disabled folks. The LGBTQ+ community. The poor. Centrist democrats are not truly our allies, they only pretend to give a shit to stretch the big tent to its breaking point and give progressive democrats reason to not split off into a third party. This is blatantly obvious when you compare the old rhetoric of a lot of long-time Democrats and their newer rhetoric while still refusing to actually update their policies to anything useful.

Well, unless the anger comes from a poor disabled person, they need to shut up and get in line behind the person who wants to fuck them over, right? Stopping the climate crisis is far more important, yet we still see people stooging for Biden, lol. Seriously, with his utterly pathetic game plan for climate change, it's game over for not just America, but the world, if we get him, a single judge isn't going to stop rising tides and wildfires, and with the current supreme court's makeup of ideology, you're not going to see a bill okaying the shooting or rouding up of climate refugees trying to escape their conditions get overturned. You'd have to replace a shitton of seats to do that, and with specifically progressive, not centrist, judges. And there aren't exactly a lot of those.

Of course, we wouldn't even be in this situation if we had beaten Trump in 2016. Oops.

There. Are. Marginalized. People. In. Flyover. States.

Click to shrink...

I love this. Thank you!

Who spoke of solved?

Stopping the bleeding isn't the end, it's the beginning.

Click to shrink...

So when do we get our actual solutions? How much more damage is done while we wait? This is suspending disbelief for a moment and pretending that Third Way politics under Clinton and Obama wasn't a major contributor to the bleeding, because it was.

In disadvantaged communities we are always told that we'll get ours eventually. Like Malcolm said, to keep our eyes on the pie in the sky while the privileged get theirs on earth. Fuck all that, I'm done waiting. Either the Democrats deliver for us now with substantive policy solutions or they can fade into irrelevance.

 

[Steeped in a Sea of Games]

I mean it exposes that people are more apt to be mad at me than Trump exposing that even blue states are fucked under him.

I didn't name one specific person and yet here we are with people overtly admitting they're gonna sit out. At least it's bringing truth to light.

But please spare me that I am hurting people. You know what actually is going to hurt people, RBG dying with Trump as President, women's rights being curtailed, queer rights being curtailed, but hey vote your conscience right?

Like honestly as if you can sit there and accuse me of hurting people because I have no respect for people who refuse to vote against Trump

Click to shrink...

I think people are plenty mad at Trump. They're just mad at you too. Anger creates anger. Do you really expect anyone to drop to their knees and proclaim how wrong they were and that this thread was the answer?

Is it that you're not trying to change minds, but instead attempting to put a scarlet letter on those people? Akin to the tea party tactic of labeling certain Republicans as RINO's? Intimidation tactics?

 

[sirap]

The last few pages are an embarrassment. We really should be better than this.

 

[Deleted member 24149]

I agree, it's not about who the nominee is but supporting to make sure trump is out of office.

Click to shrink...

And then what? No policy goals, no nothing?

The last 7-8 pages are just relitigating other threads, nothing to do with op topic

Click to shrink...

OP's topic was just bait to re litigate shit.

 

[DiscoShark]

I'm writing in William Barr.

 

[Deleted member 18502]

And then what? No policy goals, no nothing?

OP's topic was just bait to re litigate shit.

Click to shrink...

Welp, it worked.

 

[BADMAN]

Nice job, y'all, comparing disabled people who are actively disadvantaged by your favored candidate's past positions and likely future positions (I can see no other reason why you'd try to force someone to vote for Joe FUCKING Biden) to MAGA chuds. You're not showing YOUR ableism and privilege at all. Never thought I'd see Era be a bunch of ableist bullies, but, well, here we are. Also spare me using black voters as a shield and bludgeon, when polls show consistently, again and again, there's a clear split even among black voters- support for Bernie vs. Biden is not a race issue, it's a generational issue. It also sets up the argument that anyone but white, cis, straight voters (sadly, for some reason, white, cis straight women helped get him elected too) got Trump elected, which is far from the case.

Also, let's get this straight. We have someone who, in this very topic, has been negatively effected by policies similar to the ones that have been put forward by the candidate they refuse to vote for. Surely, they aren't some strange outlier. And often, electability is brought up... Rarely, if ever, do we see marginalized voters say "I'm not voting for anyone in the main election but Biden or Pete", but instead "I'm not voting for anyone but Bernie or Warren in the main election". This in mind, to those of you "tut-tutting" non-voters' because voting blue no matter who is ostensibly for marginalized people's sake: is it not, instead, your moral prerogative to vote and promote a candidate most marginalized people would feel comfortable voting for? I mean, we all see what voting for a centrist Dem did for us last time- the ACTUAL most important election in this country's history.

To be honest, what argument can you possible proffer me that voting for anyone but Bernie or Warren in the primary, isn't a vote for Trump, if you argue "well, you're voting for Trump then" if someone sits out in the main election? If we're deciding the shame game is an acceptable tactic, why is it not an acceptable tactic for the primary first and foremost? 'cause lemme tell you, Diamond Joe and Pete aren't going to solve the problems of marginalized people, least of all the two things that are effecting marginalized people the most in America right now- healthcare and the climate crisis- among other very, very important issues.

And, if you really do, for some ridiculous reason, think Biden cares about marginalized voters, particularly those in the group the person you're talking to is in: prove it. Calmly. Explain why he's actually a better choice compared to the others in the primary based on both his track record and what he's saying now. Saying "no, you have to vote for him, because I said so and he has a D next to his name" wins you very little sympathy from people who have been fucked over, over and over again. There's a reason people don't vote (besides accessibility issues)- it's because they feel like their voice, their problems, are being actively ignored by the people who claim they care. This goes for both politicians and the people shouting down at them and making them feel lower than dirt for being of a marginalized group.

Like, I mean, I am going to vote blue regardless. But I'm also fairly privileged myself in spite of my mental issues and my sexuality. Even then, I can see and empathize with why someone would see Biden and go "well, things aren't going to be any better for marginalized people with him", even if I disagree. Perhaps those of you with privilege due to your race, gender identity, sexuality, ability, or economic class should too.

Obviously, if some straight, cis, middle-class-or-higher white person with no disabilities sits out of the election, fuck them. But most people saying "oh I'm not voting for Biden" are that. These are people who have been FUCKED by Joe and people like him, just like, you know, people who sat out last time were fucked by Hillary and people like her. Women. People of color. Disabled folks. The LGBTQ+ community. The poor. Centrist democrats are not truly our allies, they only pretend to give a shit to stretch the big tent to its breaking point and give progressive democrats reason to not split off into a third party. This is blatantly obvious when you compare the old rhetoric of a lot of long-time Democrats and their newer rhetoric while still refusing to actually update their policies to anything useful.

Well, unless the anger comes from a poor disabled person, they need to shut up and get in line behind the person who wants to fuck them over, right? Stopping the climate crisis is far more important, yet we still see people stooging for Biden, lol. Seriously, with his utterly pathetic game plan for climate change, it's game over for not just America, but the world, if we get him, a single judge isn't going to stop rising tides and wildfires, and with the current supreme court's makeup of ideology, you're not going to see a bill okaying the shooting or rouding up of climate refugees trying to escape their conditions get overturned. You'd have to replace a shitton of seats to do that, and with specifically progressive, not centrist, judges. And there aren't exactly a lot of those.

Of course, we wouldn't even be in this situation if we had beaten Trump in 2016. Oops.

There. Are. Marginalized. People. In. Flyover. States.

Click to shrink...

Thank you for this post.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Fundamentally this is about how goddamn fucking embarrassing it is to see story after story, of cruelty after cruelty, and still see people talking about not voting against it in the GE, that's why I worded this one differently, because this could be any story, ICE, Anti-LGBT legislation, War with Iran....

And like once more why this became about Joe Biden I have no idea because fuck Hillary Clinton for hmm and hawwing about supporting Sanders in the GE, anyone who says they won't vote Sanders in the GE is just as much a target of my ire as anyone saying the same about Biden.

Article, after article, story endless examples.... and we constantly get hmming and hawwing about xyz GE Dem.

Fuck Trump is easy, do the one thing you can to actually fuck him, hold your nose, cry yourself to sleep afterwards, whatever.

I'm sick, so goddamn sick, of seeing people get high and mighty about oppression and the marginalized and then go but oh I can't vote for this Dem or that Dem if they win the primary. It's not about you. This idea that voting is so personal that it's nothing but yours, it's fantasy,and it's damaging, and that includes people who are part of the marginalized community, this idea that you don't have a duty to do what's best for the whole and not just you and your personal feelings. This isn't about left and middle, it's about, there's no shade of grey in 2020, there's a right answer and a wrong answer.

Some opinions aren't worth respect, end of story.

 

[Kurdel]

We're only in January and shit is out of control already

It's going to be a long fucking year, that is for sure

 

[Deleted member 7051]

So when do we get our actual solutions? How much more damage is done while we wait? This is suspending disbelief for a moment and pretending that Third Way politics under Clinton and Obama wasn't a major contributor to the bleeding, because it was.

In disadvantaged communities we are always told that we'll get ours eventually. Like Malcolm said, to keep our eyes on the pie in the sky while the privileged get theirs on earth. Fuck all that, I'm done waiting. Either the Democrats deliver for us now with substantive policy solutions or they can fade into irrelevance.

Click to shrink...

I get wanting more because Americans honestly deserve better and it's infuriating to see how far behind other first world countries the s'posed "leader of the free world" is, but biting your nose to spite your face seems counterproductive. If the Democrats fade into irrelevance, the Republicans stay in power. If that happens, the rich will get richer and the poor will get poorer and the rights of everyone that isn't straight and white will get eroded away until America is stuck in the 1950s forever.

The sad truth is America is decades behind the curve on most social issues and the Democrats aren't what they should be in 2020, but the alternative is Donald Trump and his cult of personality. Not voting against him is fundamentally the same as endorsing him because he is the status quo.

 

[Blue Skies]

The problem is some of y'all get more offended by this thread title than by what the things republicans do everyday.

 

[Schlorgan]

We're only in January and shit is out of control already

It's going to be a long fucking year, that is for sure

Click to shrink...

It'll be an even longer 4+ years if Trump wins.

 

[Coyote Starrk]

The problem is some of y'all get more offended by this thread title than by what the things republicans do everyday.

Click to shrink...

It's possible to be upset at what the Republicans are and what they do to this country every day and also think that the thread title is a bit much.

I know it sounds crazy but you can be thinking two things at the same time.

 

[Sensei]

The problem is some of y'all get more offended by this thread title than by what the things republicans do everyday.

Click to shrink...

how could you possibly make this claim with any confidence at all

 

[excelsiorlef]

And honestly part of this is because the US has a ridiculous culture of influence on Canada and I'm sitting here just hoping this shit doesn't come here, we barely dodged it last year... and I can't vote against it but y'all can. So just do it because it's literally the right thing to do.

 

[M.Bluth]

I see the focus has been entirely on voting for Biden...

I believe that a Biden presidency will be catastrophic for the country and the planet.
I know he will not do what needs to be done for the environment, or against the rich leeches that fucked the economy 5 different ways, or racial justice, or really anything. He said it to his donors: nothing will change. I know that his foreign policy will be the same old imperialistic bullshit. I know that because of all that, we'll probably end up with a far worse Trump after a Biden presidency quickly falls apart.

But he will replace Ruth Bader Ginsburg with a left-leaning judge. And anyone else who leaves SCOTUS. Same for all the other judicial appointments.

So, I can't imagine how anyone who hates Trump can't bring themselves to get out and vote for him if things end up being Biden v Trump.

Thankfully, it isn't that just yet. That's the point, go and support someone else in the primary.
But come November, we're all gonna have to eat some shit because everyone has misgivings about all the options we currently have, and just vote against the fucking orange piece of shit.

 

[Deleted member 3896]

It'll be an even longer 4+ years if Trump wins.

Click to shrink...

Yep. It shouldn't be complicated.

Fight for your fave in the primary, vote for whoever the candidate is.

I totally feel marginalized people feeling turned off by Sanders and Biden. But imo we should all keep our eyes on the SC prize if nothing else. It definitely sucks to vote for someone with Biden's or Sanders's baggage but let's get Trump the fuck out of office, deal with the courts and go from there.

Sidenote: imagine how different the world might be if just a tiny fraction more people had held their noses and voted for Gore.

 

[Deleted member 8860]

I'm sick, so goddamn sick, of seeing people get high and mighty about oppression and the marginalized and then go but oh I can't vote for this Dem or that Dem if they win the primary. It's not about you. This idea that voting is so personal that it's nothing but yours, it's fantasy,and it's damaging, and that includes people who are part of the marginalized community, this idea that you don't have a duty to do what's best for the whole and not just you and your personal feelings. This isn't about left and middle, it's about, there's no shade of grey in 2020, there's a right answer and a wrong answer.

Click to shrink...

By the same logic, shouldn't we also be sick of -- and angry at -- those who stan for primary candidates that support the murder and persecution of brown people outside the borders of the US?

Sidenote: imagine how different the world might be if just a tiny fraction more people had held their noses and voted for Gore.

Click to shrink...

I held my nose and voted for Gore, despite Lieberman being his running mate.



I wasn't living in Florida or any other swing state, though.

 

[excelsiorlef]

By the same logic, shouldn't we also be sick of -- and angry at -- those who stan for primary candidates that support the murder and persecution of brown people outside the borders of the US?

Click to shrink...

I mean no one should vote for Joe Biden.

 

[pigeon]

By the same logic, shouldn't we also be sick of -- and angry at -- those who stan for primary candidates that support the murder and persecution of brown people outside the borders of the US?

Click to shrink...

really anybody who believes in borders at all should be ineligible

 

[Morrigan]

Have learned nothing from 2016?

Vote for who you like better in the primary. Or sit it out. Whatever. This has never been in question.

But come November, Americans have one job. One job.

Just vote blue. Doesn't matter who it is. Doesn't matter what state you're in. You're in California and the Dem nominee is an inanimate carbon rod? If you're eligible to vote, go vote for the rod.

Please. SCOTUS can't afford another hit.

 

[Foffy]

I hope people realize the Republicans will never cave on this. So long as they hold power, they will reject the will of people.

Party of state's rights my fuckin' ass.

 

[Coyote Starrk]

I mean no one should vote for Joe Biden.

Click to shrink...

Well if it comes down to Biden or Trump we don't really have a choice. It's a bad option or a worse one.

 

[Schlorgan]

Have learned nothing from 2016?

Vote for who you like better in the primary. Or sit it out. Whatever. This has never been in question.

But come November, Americans have one job. One job.

Just vote blue. Doesn't matter who it is. Doesn't matter what state you're in. You're in California and the Dem nominee is an inanimate carbon rod? If you're eligible to vote, go vote for the rod.

Please. SCOTUS can't afford another hit.

Click to shrink...

Preach!

 

[excelsiorlef]

Well if it comes down to Biden or Trump we don't really have a choice. It's a bad option or a worse one.

Click to shrink...

In the primary, the context there was the primary.

 

[xxracerxx]

Well if it comes down to Biden or Trump we don't really have a choice. It's a bad option or a worse one.

Click to shrink...

They are talking about the primaries.

 

[dark494]

Well if it comes down to Biden or Trump we don't really have a choice. It's a bad option or a worse one.

Click to shrink...

And a worst option, which is not voting. This is the crux of the issue that people just aren't getting (for GE).

 

[Deleted member 3896]

Have learned nothing from 2016?

Vote for who you like better in the primary. Or sit it out. Whatever. This has never been in question.

But come November, Americans have one job. One job.

Just vote blue. Doesn't matter who it is. Doesn't matter what state you're in. You're in California and the Dem nominee is an inanimate carbon rod? If you're eligible to vote, go vote for the rod.

Please. SCOTUS can't afford another hit.

Click to shrink...

Thank you!

 

[Deleted member 32561]

And honestly part of this is because the US has a ridiculous culture of influence on Canada and I'm sitting here just hoping this shit doesn't come here, we barely dodged it last year... and I can't vote against it but y'all can. So just do it because it's literally the right thing to do.

Click to shrink...

Like I get being afraid. I really and truly do. I'm horrified. Hell, on election day 2016, I freaked out on Twitter and told people to fuck off if they didn't vote Hillary, something I feel guilt for. But the fact of the matter is that the stopping point for if you are a moral person who cares about marginalized people and the future of this planet is not the main election. It's the primaries. Shame should not be levied at marginalized folks who stay home when provided Biden because they have reason to believe he won't change anything for them or other marginalized folks. It should be levied at snooty suburbanites and talking heads and the like who refuse to choose a progressive in the primary to help save our planet and our people because they'll get a tax increase or something. And I legitimately do think people, including marginalized folk, who are choosing to vote pragmatically instead of anything to do with policy, can be convinced progressivism is the pragmatic choice. Because frankly, with literal Armageddon staring us down, it is.

So what we should be doing now is not saying "hey, you, vote for my centrist guy in the main election or you're evil". We should be canvassing the people who want to choose that centrist guy because they have little faith in a progressive getting elected in this environment and telling them- hey. Actually yes: We can do it. We CAN save the planet. We CAN improve conditions for marginalized folks. Together.

The problem is some of y'all get more offended by this thread title than by what the things republicans do everyday.

Click to shrink...

There are no Republicans here, thankfully and blissfully, or they shut up if they are. I'd be much, much more vocally going after them than centrists if that wasn't the case. But as they're not here, talking about them amounts to venting and little else, so I personally don't really unless I get really mad.

 

[Schlorgan]

I'll vote for Bernie or Warren in the primaries. I like them and I think either of them would do a great job.

But if Biden gets the nomination, I'll vote for him, even though he's my least favorite of the candidates because if I don't vote and Trump wins, I am then complicit in whatever he does in his second term and I can't have that on my conscience.

 

[TitanicFall]

It's really disheartening to see people not choose to vote for the greater good. This isn't a matter of Coke vs Pepsi. Your vote matters more than ever. There's always going to be a president. Not voting won't change that. Even if you think you're at rock bottom and it doesn't matter, you can always lose more.

 

[gardfish]

Well if it comes down to Biden or Trump we don't really have a choice. It's a bad option or a worse one.

Click to shrink...

I'm not a fan of the "lesser of two evils" phrasing. I think it's the least of three evils to vote for Biden, if he ends up being the nominee. Obviously, voting directly for Trump is the most evil option...but abstaining from voting and thereby helping to enable Trump's reelection is still pretty evil, too.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Like I get being afraid. I really and truly do. I'm horrified. Hell, on election day 2016, I freaked out on Twitter and told people to fuck off if they didn't vote Hillary, something I feel guilt for. But the fact of the matter is that the stopping point for if you are a moral person who cares about marginalized people and the future of this planet is not the main election. It's the primaries. Shame should not be levied at marginalized folks who stay home when provided Biden because they have reason to believe he won't change anything for them or other marginalized folks. It should be levied at snooty suburbanites and the like who refuse to choose a progressive in the primary to help save our planet and our people because they'll get a tax increase or something. And I legitimately do think people, including marginalized folk, who are choosing to vote pragmatically instead of anything to do with policy, can be convinced progressivism is the pragmatic choice.

So what we should be doing now is not saying "hey, you, vote for my centrist guy in the main election or you're evil". We should be canvassing the people who want to choose that centrist guy because they have little faith in a progressive getting elected in this environment and telling them- hey. Actually yes: We can do it. We CAN save the planet. We CAN improve conditions for marginalized folks. Together. There are no Republicans here, thankfully and blissfully, or they shut up if they are. I'd be much, much more vocally going after them than centrists if that wasn't the case. But as they're not here, talking about them amounts to venting and little else, so I personally don't really unless I get really mad.

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My centrist candidate?

While we're in the primaries, fuck Joe Biden

There are definitely Republicans here on this forum btw.

And nah you don't get a pass at letting the bleeding continue for all because you're one of the millions that got stabbed

You made this about Joe Biden again, this isn't about Joe Biden.

And no you have a moral imperative to vote against Trump in the GE, your moral actions are not completed because well I voted Bernie in the Primary. Like what kind of logic is that, that the general election has no moral value.

 

[Gotdatmoney]

I see the focus has been entirely on voting for Biden...

I believe that a Biden presidency will be catastrophic for the country and the planet.
I know he will not do what needs to be done for the environment, or against the rich leeches that fucked the economy 5 different ways, or racial justice, or really anything. He said it to his donors: nothing will change. I know that his foreign policy will be the same old imperialistic bullshit. I know that because of all that, we'll probably end up with a far worse Trump after a Biden presidency quickly falls apart.

But he will replace Ruth Bader Ginsburg with a left-leaning judge. And anyone else who leaves SCOTUS. Same for all the other judicial appointments.

So, I can't imagine how anyone who hates Trump can't bring themselves to get out and vote for him if things end up being Biden v Trump.

Thankfully, it isn't that just yet. That's the point, go and support someone else in the primary.
But come November, we're all gonna have to eat some shit because everyone has misgivings about all the options we currently have, and just vote against the fucking orange piece of shit.

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There is a lot of other policy and pushes the democrats can make if they have office. Biden being in charge isn't ideal but he wont be the sole decision or policy maker either. He's a fossil with some shitty views but the world is changing a democratic presidency will move with that change to some extent which is why I dont get the gloom and dooming people do if Biden were to win. He certainly would be worse than many of the other candidates but the fact people are even framing it as bad vs worse after 4 years of this Trump bullshit is hilarious.

 

[Deleted member 36054]

Nice job, y'all, comparing disabled people who are actively disadvantaged by your favored candidate's past positions and likely future positions (I can see no other reason why you'd try to force someone to vote for Joe FUCKING Biden) to MAGA chuds. You're not showing YOUR ableism and privilege at all. Never thought I'd see Era be a bunch of ableist bullies, but, well, here we are. Also spare me using black voters as a shield and bludgeon, when polls show consistently, again and again, there's a clear split even among black voters- support for Bernie vs. Biden is not a race issue, it's a generational issue. It also sets up the argument that anyone but white, cis, straight voters (sadly, for some reason, white, cis straight women helped get him elected too) got Trump elected, which is far from the case.

Also, let's get this straight. We have someone who, in this very topic, has been negatively effected by policies similar to the ones that have been put forward by the candidate they refuse to vote for. Surely, they aren't some strange outlier. And often, electability is brought up... Rarely, if ever, do we see marginalized voters say "I'm not voting for anyone in the main election but Biden or Pete", but instead "I'm not voting for anyone but Bernie or Warren in the main election". This in mind, to those of you "tut-tutting" non-voters' because voting blue no matter who is ostensibly for marginalized people's sake: is it not, instead, your moral prerogative to vote and promote a candidate most marginalized people would feel comfortable voting for? I mean, we all see what voting for a centrist Dem did for us last time- the ACTUAL most important election in this country's history.

To be honest, what argument can you possible proffer me that voting for anyone but Bernie or Warren in the primary, isn't a vote for Trump, if you argue "well, you're voting for Trump then" if someone sits out in the main election? If we're deciding the shame game is an acceptable tactic, why is it not an acceptable tactic for the primary first and foremost? 'cause lemme tell you, Diamond Joe and Pete aren't going to solve the problems of marginalized people, least of all the two things that are effecting marginalized people the most in America right now- healthcare and the climate crisis- among other very, very important issues.

And, if you really do, for some ridiculous reason, think Biden cares about marginalized voters, particularly those in the group the person you're talking to is in: prove it. Calmly. Explain why he's actually a better choice compared to the others in the primary based on both his track record and what he's saying now. Saying "no, you have to vote for him, because I said so and he has a D next to his name" wins you very little sympathy from people who have been fucked over, over and over again. There's a reason people don't vote (besides accessibility issues)- it's because they feel like their voice, their problems, are being actively ignored by the people who claim they care. This goes for both politicians and the people shouting down at them and making them feel lower than dirt for being of a marginalized group.

Like, I mean, I am going to vote blue regardless. But I'm also fairly privileged myself in spite of my mental issues and my sexuality. Even then, I can see and empathize with why someone would see Biden and go "well, things aren't going to be any better for marginalized people with him", even if I disagree. Perhaps those of you with privilege due to your race, gender identity, sexuality, ability, or economic class should too.

Obviously, if some straight, cis, middle-class-or-higher white person with no disabilities sits out of the election, fuck them. But most people saying "oh I'm not voting for Biden" are that. These are people who have been FUCKED by Joe and people like him, just like, you know, people who sat out last time were fucked by Hillary and people like her. Women. People of color. Disabled folks. The LGBTQ+ community. The poor. Centrist democrats are not truly our allies, they only pretend to give a shit to stretch the big tent to its breaking point and give progressive democrats reason to not split off into a third party. This is blatantly obvious when you compare the old rhetoric of a lot of long-time Democrats and their newer rhetoric while still refusing to actually update their policies to anything useful.

Well, unless the anger comes from a poor disabled person, they need to shut up and get in line behind the person who wants to fuck them over, right? Stopping the climate crisis is far more important, yet we still see people stooging for Biden, lol. Seriously, with his utterly pathetic game plan for climate change, it's game over for not just America, but the world, if we get him, a single judge isn't going to stop rising tides and wildfires, and with the current supreme court's makeup of ideology, you're not going to see a bill okaying the shooting or rouding up of climate refugees trying to escape their conditions get overturned. You'd have to replace a shitton of seats to do that, and with specifically progressive, not centrist, judges. And there aren't exactly a lot of those.

Of course, we wouldn't even be in this situation if we had beaten Trump in 2016. Oops.

There. Are. Marginalized. People. In. Flyover. States.

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How is questioning why someone who is disabled would be ok with 4 more years of Trump ableism?? No one is handwaving his disabilities. I literally have no idea why he thinks things would be ok under Trump? And in all honesty in regard to race and gender, he still holds some privilege!!

The world is on fucking fire!!!! And our current president is in complete denial off it. RGB is hanging by a thread and multiple states have passed disenfranchising, anti-LGBT, anti-abortion, and anti affirmative action laws with the expectation of a conservative SC.

My cousin in Flatbush is a black woman with down syndrome. Do you really think she's safer with Trump in office or Biden, Bernie, Warren or Bloomberg, etc???

Do you not understand the view point of many black black voters when it comes to the GE? Just don't call yourself a progressive or an ally if you're content staying home. You might as well be a climate change denier.

This is nuts. Bernie doesn't support reparations, and struggles with racial equality on his platform, but the vast majority of black people will still non-conditionally vote for him in the GE.

 

[pigeon]

Like I get being afraid. I really and truly do. I'm horrified. Hell, on election day 2016, I freaked out on Twitter and told people to fuck off if they didn't vote Hillary, something I feel guilt for. But the fact of the matter is that the stopping point for if you are a moral person who cares about marginalized people and the future of this planet is not the main election. It's the primaries. Shame should not be levied at marginalized folks who stay home when provided Biden because they have reason to believe he won't change anything for them or other marginalized folks.

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I think they should be asked if they're willing to fight for somebody they don't know.

Also I don't know why you would feel guilt for that lol.

 

[Chaos Legion]

Not sure how you reconcile wanting a progressive candidate and proclaiming you're a progressive with the basic conceit that the collective is more important than the individual, yet only adhere to that commitment as long as you get your way.

Vote with your heart in the primary, but for the love of God, do not let Trump get another term.

 

[NoName999]

If a Canadian woman on a video game forum being angry is the reason an American won't vote, they were never going to vote.

So I don't know why we're doing this fucking tone policing.

 

[Gotdatmoney]

Anyone that has done even a shred of research knows a Democrat in office will yeild infinitely better results for vulnerable bodies than a Republican in even the most ideal of circumstances. It's embarassinh that people are playing it off like there is a doubt bewteen a democratic nominee and Trump in terms of what is best for America (and by extention the rest of the planet). You're being the worst kind of dishonest when you do this.

 

[Tobor]

EDIT: Took out my stupid post and just quoting this.

Anyone that has done even a shred of research knows a Democrat in office will yeild infinitely better results for vulnerable bodies than a Republican in even the most ideal of circumstances. It's embarassinh that people are playing it off like there is a doubt bewteen a democratic nominee and Trump in terms of what is best for America (and by extention the rest of the planet). You're being the worst kind of dishonest when you do this.

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100% how I feel about this.

 

[Soliloquy of a Dogge]

Another thread dripping in white privilege.

White "progressives" are not our friends. They never have been, they never will be if it inconveniences them or their privilege in any way.

 

[Deleted member 36054]

Another thread dripping in white privilege.

White "progressives" are not our friends. They never have been, they never will be if it inconveniences them or their privilege in any way.

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Pretty much. You would think climate change would be enough of a factor, but the cult of Bernie has taken over and it's Bernie or bust.

Then they become oblivious to why Bernie gets killed in the black vote.

 

[AbsoluteZero0K]

Telling nonvoters that they're bigoted and should shut the fuck up is not a good strategy to get them to vote.

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Yea, IDK anyone who responds positively to "STFU" or any other variant.

I am surprised that this thread has been allowed to go on this long with such an incendiary title.

BRB, going to read Mewshuji's contribution.

 

[NoName999]

It's possible to be upset at what the Republicans are and what they do to this country every day and also think that the thread title is a bit much.

I know it sounds crazy but you can be thinking two things at the same time.

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IT'S ONE MEAN THREAD TITLE ON A VIDEO GAME FORUM!

Not really worth getting this angry over. There are people here more angry at this irrelevant thread title than what Trump is currently doing. Wake me when an Era member does horrendous stuff Trump does on a daily basis.

 

[AbsoluteZero0K]

The problem is some of y'all get more offended by this thread title than by what the things republicans do everyday.

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How do you know this? Because people aren't taking to the streets armed for revolution?

What do you need to see ppl do here that will make you change your assumption?

As Mewshuji already pointed out, straight white men—and straight white women—voted overwhelmingly in key states for Trump.

If you're a minority, what can you do when you're outnumbered?

 

[Addie]

I disagree with my buddy Sean but completely understand his viewpoint: it's rational and the product of lived experiences that I don't share. And while we've disagreed about this a while back, I also respect him enough to accept his choice, and I'm not going to attempt to erase his autonomy and agency by continuing down that path. One, it's dehumanizing. Two, it won't work.

But I will say this, because I'm getting fucking tired of keyboard bravehearting (with apologies to excelsiorlef for stealing that term).

All of the time half the people in this thread have spent trying to convince one unpersuadable voter could've been redirected elsewhere. And, just setting aside the disagreement with Sean, all of the dumbass arguments you've had in OTHER dumbass threads on Era all constituted time that could've been better spent.

Your time is simply more valuable.

I will not say "fuck you" to Bernie-or-busters or the NeverBiden crew, because it's simply not worth it. It's 24 January 2020, and at this point, everyone knows what the stakes are. Focus on the voters who appear to be persuadable rather than wasting time and energy on those who, for whatever reason, aren't.

Also, ask yourself what the fuck you're doing to advance your cause that's actually meaningful, because it's not arguing with anyone on ResetEra.com.

Here's mine:

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What's yours?

 

[Deleted member 36054]

How do you know this? Because people aren't taking to the streets armed for revolution?

What do you need to see ppl do here that will make you change your assumption?

As Mewshuji already pointed out, straight white men—and straight white women—voted overwhelmingly in key states for Trump.

If you're a minority, what can you do when you're outnumbered?

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Why do non-whites seem to have no problem picking the lesser of "two evils"?