• Introducing Image Options for ResetEra 2.0! Check the left side navigation bar to show or hide images, avatars, covers, and embedded media. More details at the link.

Simon Says Mafia - I would never lie to you, please do what I say

Oct 25, 2017
810
USA
I just got home from work, so I'll have to go back and read what I missed outside of when I got to briefly check the thread during breaks. But my initial thoughts is yeah this sucks.

I wasn't feeling good about lynching Fran yesterday and so when Apollo brought up Salva I decided to follow her. She's the closest to a confirmed town we have so I trust she wasn't intentionally trying to lead town into a mis-lynch. That and I made a decision that I wasn't going to waffle and I was going to put a vote down yesterday no matter what.

Shit went sideways but it's not like nobody else was scum reading Salva before
 
Nov 3, 2017
1,874
I just got home from work, so I'll have to go back and read what I missed outside of when I got to briefly check the thread during breaks. But my initial thoughts is yeah this sucks.

I wasn't feeling good about lynching Fran yesterday and so when Apollo brought up Salva I decided to follow her. She's the closest to a confirmed town we have so I trust she wasn't intentionally trying to lead town into a mis-lynch. That and I made a decision that I wasn't going to waffle and I was going to put a vote down yesterday no matter what.

Shit went sideways but it's not like nobody else was scum reading Salva before
At what point did you not feel good about the Fran lynch?

What made you reconsider the vote on Fran?

You said you didn’t want to waffle, but you waffled in the Fran vote.
 
Oct 25, 2017
810
USA
At what point did you not feel good about the Fran lynch?

What made you reconsider the vote on Fran?

You said you didn’t want to waffle, but you waffled in the Fran vote.
Just felt like voting Fran was a mistake and if Fran flipped town I'd be right in the same position I'm in right now. I remind you that when I switched my vote to Salva it wan't a done deal for him yet. Exodus was the last minute hammer on Salva and I'm a bit surprised he's not getting grilled over it.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,765
You can grill me all you want. I didn't want a Salva lynch. I just had a hesitation about lynching Chugg and there was no time left and no alternatives. Half of the players were not around during the end of the day which made it pretty damned hard to do much of anything.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,765
Unless Swamped chimes in, I'm thinking I'm somewhat firm on my Fran vote. Fran is the most important piece of the puzzle right now. If we lynch Meat/Malus and they end up town, I feel like we're going to be no further ahead.

All this thought is making me think the game is perfectly balanced. Yeah, we had 2 unlynchables, but with no protection and no investigation roles this still doesn't seem town sided whatsoever. I really wonder if Fran's faux outrage is just a point to make his doubting of Faddy that much more believable.
 
Nov 3, 2017
1,874
Just felt like voting Fran was a mistake and if Fran flipped town I'd be right in the same position I'm in right now. I remind you that when I switched my vote to Salva it wan't a done deal for him yet. Exodus was the last minute hammer on Salva and I'm a bit surprised he's not getting grilled over it.
I was thinking about grilling exo, but I didn’t want to repeat the rabbit hole of “just townie indecisiveness” he crawled into d2/d3 wn I was on him. Would result in a useless back and forth.
 
Nov 3, 2017
1,874
Are we just entertaining WIFOM situations too much here? Faddy's primary reads were Meatwad and Faddy, were they not?
You posted this after my vote for malus.

It seems you brought it up to encourage the Fran lynch, since you thought meat and Fran were faddy’s top scum.

What are your thoughts now that faddy thought there was guaranteed scum between salva and malus?
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,765
What are your thoughts now that faddy thought there was guaranteed scum between salva and malus?
Faddy has no information to go on besides posts during d1/d2/d3. His reads are out of date at this point.

I don't mean that we should be taking his reads as gospel, but I believe we've drifted a bit too far into WIFOM territory and we should look at the obvious hints right in front of us,
 
Nov 3, 2017
1,874
Faddy has no information to go on besides posts during d1/d2/d3. His reads are out of date at this point.

I don't mean that we should be taking his reads as gospel, but I believe we've drifted a bit too far into WIFOM territory and we should look at the obvious hints right in front of us,
If you feel that way about it, why bring up faddy’s reads in the first place?
 
Nov 3, 2017
1,874
Vote: TheChuggernaut

I still have my doubts about Swamped, but I'm with Fran on this one. Chugg's been on my list for a while.
Salva has never voted defensively and never tried to get a lynch train going. The only thing against him is scum reading Faddy, but I think he did so in much more of a town way than Fran. And I will remind you that I also scum read Faddy. Many of us did. I think the posts on D3 need to be picked apart a bit more. See who could have been scum trying to fish out Faddy's "true" power. From my memory, I think Fran fits the bill.
.
This is a very strong and well reasoned post on why exo won’t vote salva.
Vote: TheChuggernaut

Okay this is my final vote (I think). I'm seeing something here.

Chugg has been playing the agreeable townie. Never interested in having his own opinion. Always follows someone else. First got onto the Fran train, and as soon as that started falling apart he got on the next most probably train, Salva. Looks like scum that doesn't want to get in too early or too late on a train.

Sorry for flipping so much, but there's just so little to go on right now.
Read on chuggs, around 1330.
Vote: SalvaPot

Don't want to end this in a no lynch.

Yeah you called out almost everyone it seems.
That's now making me lean town towards Chugg tbh.
So someone with no strong opinions and regularly backtracks on the ones they do have, and is generally agreeable all-around will make you lean town towards them? This is why I'm saying that this trust is going to go poorly for you.
 
Nov 3, 2017
1,874
Salva has never voted defensively and never tried to get a lynch train going. The only thing against him is scum reading Faddy, but I think he did so in much more of a town way than Fran. And I will remind you that I also scum read Faddy. Many of us did. I think the posts on D3 need to be picked apart a bit more. See who could have been scum trying to fish out Faddy's "true" power. From my memory, I think Fran fits the bill.
.
This is a very strong and well reasoned post on why exo won’t vote salva.
Vote: TheChuggernaut

Okay this is my final vote (I think). I'm seeing something here.

Chugg has been playing the agreeable townie. Never interested in having his own opinion. Always follows someone else. First got onto the Fran train, and as soon as that started falling apart he got on the next most probably train, Salva. Looks like scum that doesn't want to get in too early or too late on a train.

Sorry for flipping so much, but there's just so little to go on right now.
Read on chuggs, around 1330.
Vote: SalvaPot

Don't want to end this in a no lynch.
This is a very lazy vote on Salva. Especially considering that exo’s unvote on chuggs was the reason chuggs/salva was tied in the first place.

Yeah you called out almost everyone it seems.
This is malus in response to chuggs’ voting
That's now making me lean town towards Chugg tbh.
How does chuggs calling out everyone makes you not only town read him, but also townread him over salva?
So someone with no strong opinions and regularly backtracks on the ones they do have, and is generally agreeable all-around will make you lean town towards them? This is why I'm saying that this trust is going to go poorly for you.
Flux’s response to exo townreading chuggs.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,437
Fran is the most important piece of the puzzle right now.
What puzzle? And why aren't you acknowledging my posts? I answered a lot of your points earlier.

If you guys think Meat or Malus are scum, please let us know who you think the potential partners would be, and why.
I already said so: Scum is between Malus, Meatwad and Chuggs. Just look yesterday at the votes. Chuggs jump on my wagon yesterday after being sure that I was scum but without voting and Meatwad followed him. When Apollo created the Salva wagon Chuggs jump on that and Meatwad just followed him with little to no explanation.

Malus has been coasting. Apollo made a good post about why Malus could be scum D2 and nothing has changed during that time:

A few things bug me about malus. He considered cabot for Simon, something is expect from scum. His interactions with Faddy. He spent a number of posts D1 seriously considering the idea of Faddy being under a posting restriction, trying to game it. His weird meta argument before that for why Faddy might be posting as he was. His reads list- I have no idea why he’s scum reading DCPat or NF because he never told us, and his argument for not liking Salva, who he ends up calling our “best bet” is merely this that he “hasn’t contributed much” and has made some “strange posts”. It’s super weak. None of this makes me feel like malus is actually trying to solve the game
 
Nov 3, 2017
1,874
I was never on Fran. :S

I was on Swamped because I've suspected her since d3. Chugg mostly for the same reasons. They've both played really passive games are were hunting for targets besides Faddy which looked like scum tells to me. Tbh I'd be down for lynching either of them at this point.

Just not really keen on a Salva lynch.
Another post at eod where exo throws shade on chuggs and doesn’t want to lynch salva
 
Oct 25, 2017
390
Bit surprised flux died, as he was getting some heat, but there was no way I was going to scum read him given that cabot vote on D1. Perhaps scum was trying to target whomever might get the simon power, so they have a chance to wield it? Maybe they anticipated I wouldn't give it to Apollo as she's the obvious NK target.

Exo is still someone I townread.

Zeke is too, but I want to see him push Chuggs more.

I'm going to do three things:

1. Look closely at the D4 end votes. It seemed so sure that Fran was getting voted, then this spin to Salva?? I feel like my Malus case was much stronger.
2. Look again at D2 votes, now that we know another frontrunner was town (Salva)
3. Look at Flux's posts. If Fran is scum, they may have offed Flux as he was likely a sure Fran vote.

I think meatwad has been a huge blindspot for me. Not sure I like how his vote went down, but I'll take a closer look.

Also, to Chuggs and Exo who keep saying that Malus is the wrong lynch because everyone is going with it: This is a super frustrating take. There are only two scum left (which is what I hypothesized before). This means the majority of town is scumreading him. If Malus is indeed scum, the other scum member is being forced to bus him.

There's a lot I don't like about Chuggs' D4 end either, but if he does end up being scum I'm going to feel so dumb. But also...kinda proud? Like, that's what mafia is all about really.
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,268
Fran

I see his reasoning behind it, and why he thinks that flip would give us some good info, but I don't think you're scum and I would rather just lynch Meatwad or Malus. His reasoning and how he's trying to puzzle it out feels town, but I don't think he's right
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,268
Also, to Chuggs and Exo who keep saying that Malus is the wrong lynch because everyone is going with it: This is a super frustrating take. There are only two scum left (which is what I hypothesized before). This means the majority of town is scumreading him. If Malus is indeed scum, the other scum member is being forced to bus him.
Yeah, I'm starting to realize that too. It a flimsy premise that I should not of gone all in on. I'm pro-Malus lynch today
 
Oct 25, 2017
390
Replacement list:
[He/him] Fandorin - GMT-3
[He/him] Blargonaut - GMT
[He/him] Lone_Prodigy - PST
[He/him] SalvaPot - PST
Never change, Salva XD XD XD

Ok here's a list of who my gut says is town

[He/him] exodus - town
[He/him] EzekelRAGE - town
[He/him] Fran
[He/him] Meatwad
[She/her] Apollo - town
[He/him] TheChuggernaut - town?
[He/him] malus - CET

This should be an easy process of elimination now. Just have to figure out who could be a team.
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,268
What are your reads? You seem to be going with the flow and agreeable to most things today.
Meatwad and Malus I think are scum. I mentioned it earlier in this post.

We’re very close to losing and we don’t have a scum lynch to go off of that makes things easier. We have one maybe confirmed town, and 6 people that are unknowns. I’m going to be real, I don’t like our chances here.

I don’t blame anyone for not trusting my reads, but here they are. If I’m still operating under the idea that Fran is town, then my idea that Malus was pushed as an easy lynch is incorrect. I think looking there would be a good idea. Meatwads vote for Salva also feels the most like a sudden scum vote to me.

I don’t blame anyone for wanting to vote me, and today’s the day if you want to. I would rather not cost us the game on MYLO.
You could be scum, but I would look to both of them before you. I still feel really good about Exodus and same for Swamped. Both of them seem like they're trying to figure this game out. I have no proof for Fran still, but I liked the conclusions he came to today. Apollo is town.
 
Nov 3, 2017
1,874
Zeke is too, but I want to see him push Chuggs more.
.
Why do you want me specifically to go after chuggs?

I feel I questioned chuggs a decent amount already. Why don’t you dive deeper yourself on chuggs?

If you townread chuggs, I don’t understand why you would want me to go more in on him.


Meatwad same question to you. Why didn’t you go in on the exo vote instead of relying on others? Since you thought it was odd exo got a free pass over it.

unvote

I’m feeling kinda lead here.
 
Nov 3, 2017
1,874
Meatwad and Malus I think are scum. I mentioned it earlier in this post.



You could be scum, but I would look to both of them before you. I still feel really good about Exodus and same for Swamped. Both of them seem like they're trying to figure this game out. I have no proof for Fran still, but I liked the conclusions he came to today. Apollo is town.
Ok you are pointing in the direction of meatwad and malus, but you aren’t really making a case and pushing for them.

What are your cases? Although you don’t have a vote, you still have a voice.

What do you think of swamp townreading you, but wanting me to go in more on you?
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,268
Ok you are pointing in the direction of meatwad and malus, but you aren’t really making a case and pushing for them.

What are your cases? Although you don’t have a vote, you still have a voice.

What do you think of swamp townreading you, but wanting me to go in more on you?
I'm a little hesitant to go all in on my argument because yesterday I did that and led us off the edge of a fucking cliff. I will try to look into some stuff today though. Have to write a paper tonight so I'm probably going to be busy.

I've said it before, but I don't blame anyone who is unsure about me after yesterday, and Swamped seems to be falling in that category. Like I think I would actually be kind of suspicious if someone came in today and was like "Oh yeah, Chugg is town and we should not look there at all." Swamped isn't really ringing any alarm bells.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,765
My reason for switching so much yesterday is that I really only got back to the game within the last hour and I was reading over the day. As I was reading my opinion was changing.

I should have just took my time and made up my mind completely before posting. As for Salva, it’s easy to say now I shouldn’t have switched to him in hindsight. But if Chuggs ended up town we’d be in the same situation.

I’m still not unhappy with yesterday though. I think Chuggs is town and he’s one of the biggest contributors here to solving the game.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,437
Fran

I see his reasoning behind it, and why he thinks that flip would give us some good info, but I don't think you're scum and I would rather just lynch Meatwad or Malus. His reasoning and how he's trying to puzzle it out feels town, but I don't think he's right
But his point is wrong. I was in the lead until one hour before day end and was for a while. Noone tried to save me or create a new wagon until then. But the wagon was created by Apollo, who is our most confirmed townie.

Let's look at who could be my partner:

- Apollo started the Salva wagon but she is our semi confirmed townie so we know that this was not a scum wagon.
- Chuggs followed Salva. Chuggs jumping on the Salva wagon made both him and me the vote leaders at the time. There is no way that we could be partners as no scum team would create two scum leading wagons.
- Meatwad followed Apollo too. His reasons for both voting me and changing the vote were weak. But his vote was the one that put me in the lead. Too risky a move to create a scum leading wagon when there were several others.
- Exodus voted for me after the wagon died. Then voted Salva to avoid a tie. He wouldn't have tried to keep me in the race and jump out of Chuggs. Another risky move.

Neither of the people that voted for Salva could have been my scum partner without doing some weird moves.
 
Nov 3, 2017
1,874
I should have just took my time and made up my mind completely before posting. As for Salva, it’s easy to say now I shouldn’t have switched to him in hindsight. But if Chuggs ended up town we’d be in the same situation.
.
This isn’t a case of hindsight being 20/20. The salva vote made no sense for you.

Also, if we flipped chuggs, this wouldn’t be the same situation. Chuggs had more interactions etc.

I’m still not unhappy with yesterday though. I think Chuggs is town and he’s one of the biggest contributors here to solving the game.
Can you back that up?

I remember you saying chuggs had an extremely weak d2 or d3.
 
Nov 3, 2017
1,874
But his point is wrong. I was in the lead until one hour before day end and was for a while. Noone tried to save me or create a new wagon until then. But the wagon was created by Apollo, who is our most confirmed townie.

Let's look at who could be my partner:

- Apollo started the Salva wagon but she is our semi confirmed townie so we know that this was not a scum wagon.
- Chuggs followed Salva. Chuggs jumping on the Salva wagon made both him and me the vote leaders at the time. There is no way that we could be partners as no scum team would create two scum leading wagons.
- Meatwad followed Apollo too. His reasons for both voting me and changing the vote were weak. But his vote was the one that put me in the lead. Too risky a move to create a scum leading wagon when there were several others.
- Exodus voted for me after the wagon died. Then voted Salva to avoid a tie. He wouldn't have tried to keep me in the race and jump out of Chuggs. Another risky move.

Neither of the people that voted for Salva could have been my scum partner without doing some weird moves.
Your saying none of those could be your partner, do you think the salva vote is pure?

Same question to everyone, is salva vote pure?
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,437
Your saying none of those could be your partner, do you think the salva vote is pure?

Same question to everyone, is salva vote pure?
I don't think so. I think the start was pure (Apollo is our semi confirmed townie) but then scum jumped on it. My point was that it was not to save me. Remaining scums are 2 players at most. If I'm one of them they couldn't create a wagon. Most likely scum was afraid to lynch me because they have been pushing for it and were afraid that they would look really bad after my flip.
 
Nov 3, 2017
1,874
Because I’d 100% know it would land me here. And scum me would rather continue trying to fly under the radar than invite this level of scrutiny on myself.
I mean, you simply waved imthe vote away by saying you were sheeping Apollo.

Also, from my question earlier, you wondered why exo wasn’t being grilled. Why don’t you grill him?
 
Oct 30, 2017
519
Switzerland
Some thoughts on people that voted SalvaPot:

Apollo - #1,589 : Still confirmed town
TheChuggernaut - #1,591 : Not sure what the goal was of switching to Salva. If he is scum, maybe he realized that it would look really bad for him when Fran flipped town and so switched hoping somebody else would break the tie by voting for Fran.
Meatwad - #1,603 : Honestly probably looks the worst of all votes. Not much reasoning given, and pretty much just following the confirmed town.
exodus - #1,652 : This is a bit tricky. This vote only makes sense if exodus is town or both he and TheChuggernaut are scum. Why would scum exodus switch all his reads to vote for Salva, when he could just as well have voted TheChuggernaut instead for whom he had made a case earlier?

So right now I could see the following scum teams based on those observations:

exodus + TheChuggernaut: TheChuggernaut switched to not look bad when Fran would flip, but didn't expect Meatwad to follow. Later exodus voted Salva to prevent TheChuggernaut from being lynched by another tiebreaker. I feel if exodus is scum, his scum partner would have to be TheChuggernaut.

Meatwad + Fran: His vote on Salva looks especially bad, but why would he switch in the last minute? Possibly he was busing his teammate Fran and saw an opportunity to still save him when TheChuggernaut switched his vote. As Meatwad said himself, he wouldn't have a reason to switch if he weren't on a team with Fran.

TheChuggernaut + EzekelRAGE: I feel like this would be the only reasonable scum partner for TheChuggernaut who is not exodus. Swamped I already explained yesterday, Fran seems unlikely due to their interactions yesterday and today. Chugg/Meatwad team makes no sense in light of what happened at eod. This team is in my opinion the least likely one, because I quite heavily town read Zeke.