Simon Says Mafia - I would never lie to you, please do what I say

exodus · Feb 19, 2019

Interesting that Faddy went from a strong town read on me to a scum read now that I've decided we should lynch him. He's trying to save himself since I'm the only other strong lynch candidate right now.

Leaning hard scum on Faddy now since he doesn't even want to entertain ending the day by confirming his ability.

Faddy. You said your power was a post to the thread and not a PM. Go ahead and use it right now to corroborate your claim.

Faddy · Feb 19, 2019

exodus said:
Interesting that Faddy went from a strong town read on me to a scum read now that I've decided we should lynch him. He's trying to save himself since I'm the only other strong lynch candidate right now.

Leaning hard scum on Faddy now since he doesn't even want to entertain ending the day by confirming his ability.

Faddy. You said your power was a post to the thread and not a PM. Go ahead and use it right now to corroborate your claim.

I never said you were strong town. I said you were wrong town.

EzekelRAGE · Feb 19, 2019

exodus said:
With what I just said, I think Swamped and Zeke may be scum if Faddy turns up town. More leaning towards Swamped since Zeke has been laser focused on me since d1 and that doesn't feel overly scummy to me.

Fran is my highest town read since like I said, scum wouldn't go all in on a pointless lynch.

I dont agree with this.

Conspiracy Theory Rage - Would it be pointless if scum think he is lying about his power?

EzekelRAGE · Feb 19, 2019

exodus said:
1. I have explained my thought process every step of the way but you seem to keep ignoring that.

2. I then answered you. I said my reads would change IF HE DID IN FACT TAKE THE SHOT. He didn't. He soft claimed. And this my read on him did not change.

3. Faddy quoted my post where I explained why I flipped on my read. You acknowledged it. I don't need to answer you directly when my answer is already right in front of you.

4. What every. Day 2. I'm just more frustrated with you now than anything. It's tiring having to spell every little thing out for you when you refuse to read my posts.

1. I havent ignored it

2. Let me ask the question in a different way. Was faddy the only alignment that would change in your earlier read list? Im only hung up on this read list because you said it would change "significantly". I just wanted to know what the other changes would be.

exodus said:
Verelios - town
EzekelRAGE - town
Fran - town
SalvaPot - scum
Meatwad - town
Apollo - town
DCPat - town
Never Forever - scum
TheChuggernaut - town
Faddy - scum
malus - town

Hinging heavily on the theory that Faddy is soft-claiming the vig shot on cabot to become Simon. If that theory were to fall through, then my choices would shift significantly. I wouldn't normally believe that scum would bus that hard early on, but seeing as how we're shooting for potentially the most important role in the game, scum might be willing to risk it to claim Simon.

3. I asked if that was the only reason.

4. *shrug*

EzekelRAGE said:
Exo why would you want to lynch faddy in a roleblock day?

EzekelRAGE said:
Is this your only reasoning for going from lynching faddy to town reading him? You made several posts in regards to seeing him lynched.

Meatwad · Feb 19, 2019

Hello, I am gonna give this thread a read through and give my thoughts

Fran · Feb 19, 2019

Faddy said:
Fran that voting stuff is so weak and in almost direct response to me asking NF not to vote until everyone checks in.

it is practically no justification at all.

You don't believe what I said about DCPat or what NF wrote in the post where he voted. It was just that one response?

I also didn't like how he reacted when I called him out after that. My first posts was that I was not liking posts, he says it's weak, I explain it, and he jumps directly for scum. Note that it was the first time in all the game that we interacted directly and he never said anything about me before. I found the escalation weird, kinda like OMGUS. I called him out for that later in the day too.

EzekelRAGE said:
I dont agree with this.

Conspiracy Theory Rage - Would it be pointless if scum think he is lying about his power?

Never change Zeke. I think that you should have run Conspiracy Mafia instead of me.

exodus · Feb 19, 2019

EzekelRAGE said:
Exo why would you want to lynch faddy in a roleblock day?

I was set on Faddy being scum and assumed that might have been a scum power and he was lying about it. I'm not super familiar with Mafia balance and didn't realize that such a power likely wouldn't exist for scum. I have now been told otherwise and no longer believe that he would be scum with that power. If he's scum, his power is likely something else.

EzekelRAGE said:
Is this your only reasoning for going from lynching faddy to town reading him? You made several posts in regards to seeing him lynched.

I said that my main reason for town reading him was his sudden reveal and the fact that a bunch of people started going on him. I have now changed my mind because I don't think scum would jump on someone who made that role claim. But as you said, it's possible that he could be town and is lying about his role to throw off scum. I'm just choosing to believe that's not the case. Occam's razor and all.

Meatwad · Feb 19, 2019

After going over the thread, I'm scum reading Faddy. It's way too convenient for him that his first post that isn't nonsense was to accurately call Cabot out on being scum and since that post Faddy has been going after townies (Me, DCpat) making wild speculation, (I'm a cop? news to me) and making ludicrous role claims. (Why would there be two un-lynchable townies in one game?)

I'm just not buying it Faddy sorry

Swamped · Feb 19, 2019

One thing in exo's favor is that he is around and really trying to respond to stuff. It would be so easy for scum to just lie low and try to keep attention off them. Of course, scum needs to fight real hard at this point given they are 1 down. I'm not going back on my exo scum read yet, but I am trying to think about this from all directions.

exodus not saying it exists in this game, but I have seen a scum override before. A scum member got lynched, and in the twilight zone he picked a town to get lynched instead. But then he was outed as scum by the moderator, and of course was lynched the next day. Essentially it was a one-for-one trade.

How does this make you feel about Faddy's role?

Swamped · Feb 19, 2019

If the game goes in that direction, I wouldn't be opposed to testing Faddy's role to be perfectly honest. Sounds like we wouldn't have too much to lose (a no lunch, big deal), but everything to gain (get a semi-confirmed town, find out if Faddy was lying about part of his role).

A lot of people have strong reactions to his claim, so 'lynching' Faddy might shed some light on that.

Swamped · Feb 19, 2019

I wish some other people would chime in too. Would love to hear more from Apollo, our other semi-confirmed, Salvapot, and Flux.

TheChuggernaut · Feb 19, 2019

Swamped said:
If the game goes in that direction, I wouldn't be opposed to testing Faddy's role to be perfectly honest. Sounds like we wouldn't have too much to lose (a no lunch, big deal), but everything to gain (get a semi-confirmed town, find out if Faddy was lying about part of his role).

A lot of people have strong reactions to his claim, so 'lynching' Faddy might shed some light on that.

I'm starting to come around to the idea. Having scum with the power to no lynch seems busted as fuck so I could see that not being a thing. Still though, I think he's town and I think this is a waste of time so I would rather not.

Swamped · Feb 19, 2019

But if Faddy is indeed a scum governer, that could explain why he was so blase on D1 with the colors. He felt in no danger of getting lynched. Perhaps he can even take down a townie (if the other scum governor role I've seen is anything to go by).

But argh, his interactions with cabot D1... Could that really by scum vs scum?

exodus · Feb 19, 2019

Swamped said:
One thing in exo's favor is that he is around and really trying to respond to stuff. It would be so easy for scum to just lie low and try to keep attention off them. Of course, scum needs to fight real hard at this point given they are 1 down. I'm not going back on my exo scum read yet, but I am trying to think about this from all directions.

exodus not saying it exists in this game, but I have seen a scum override before. A scum member got lynched, and in the twilight zone he picked a town to get lynched instead. But then he was outed as scum by the moderator, and of course was lynched the next day. Essentially it was a one-for-one trade.

How does this make you feel about Faddy's role?

I'm choosing to stick with my original gut feeling and I think there's a good chance he's scum. And on the off chance that he's not, a no-lynch is a small price to pay to confirm him.

I really can't give any input as far as game balance goes because I'm just not that familiar with it still.

exodus · Feb 19, 2019

Swamped said:
But argh, his interactions with cabot D1... Could that really by scum vs scum?

Day 1 is such a safe day to pick on scum mates. I don't think scum would have expected such an early vig shot.

Apollo · Feb 19, 2019

Swamped said:
I wish some other people would chime in too. Would love to hear more from Apollo, our other semi-confirmed, Salvapot, and Flux.

i feelcthe temptation to test faddy's role because i totally get that it seems super weird paired with dcpat's role, but I can't get over the fact that faddy claiming when he did just doesn't seem like something scum would do. So I'm still town reading him and am opposed to lynching him.

Swamped said:
But if Faddy is indeed a scum governer, that could explain why he was so blase on D1 with the colors. He felt in no danger of getting lynched. Perhaps he can even take down a townie (if the other scum governor role I've seen is anything to go by).

But argh, his interactions with cabot D1... Could that really by scum vs scum?

I'm trying to keep in mind that faddy would have had no idea I'd come out and shoot cabot. Still would be kind of weird for a scum faddy to break his silence just to case against his teammate

Faddy · Feb 19, 2019

Swamped said:
But if Faddy is indeed a scum governer, that could explain why he was so blase on D1 with the colors. He felt in no danger of getting lynched. Perhaps he can even take down a townie (if the other scum governor role I've seen is anything to go by).

But argh, his interactions with cabot D1... Could that really by scum vs scum?

Nope. I posted colours because I was town governor. If I was a scum governor I already know there is going to be a reasonably strong counter to my role.

And that is why the game is all messed up now. Because we have basically 2 lynchproof townies.

And you have to remember I gave this info out willingly. And so far no one is really helping to solve the game state.

exodus · Feb 19, 2019

Faddy what happens when you use your power? When can you use it?

Fran · Feb 19, 2019

Apollo said:
but I can't get over the fact that faddy claiming when he did just doesn't seem like something scum would do.

Faddy said:
And so far no one is really helping to solve the game state.

I don't understand why you keep repeating that. We are trying to solve your claim, how is that not trying to solve the game?

FluxWaveZ · Feb 19, 2019

I'm of the opinion that we should lynch Faddy today. What worried me to go with the idea before was that I don't know about a no-lynch in a game with this number of players, but the prospect I like less is being mislead by Faddy until the end. Honestly, looking at the game from the outside, I was uncertain on him when I saw Apollo's claim as the vigilante after what went down on D1.

Then again, Faddy's first proper activity in the game was to specifically dump on cabot and pin him as scum. Kind of a weird move, if it was a scum v scum situation, but when it's a phase where no one can be lynched, it's hard to interpret.

Vote: Faddy

I say we test the role. I'm inclined to see it as town if it does come to fruition, because I'd find it very hard to believe scum could have a role where they not only could protect themselves from a lynch, but one of their teammates, too.

Exodus, you tend to bring up your defense of DCPat being right as significant town points in your favor, but I don't think it is. If you were scum, you'd of course know everyone else's alignments (to an extent). Heavily defending someone you know is town doesn't mean that much, in that case.

FluxWaveZ · Feb 19, 2019

exodus said:
Faddy what happens when you use your power? When can you use it?

He explained it before. He says it can only be used 5 minutes after the day ends, in a public facing command. That would override the lynch into a no-lynch. He stated he would only use it on himself.

Faddy · Feb 19, 2019

Fran said:
I don't understand why you keep repeating that. We are trying to solve your claim, how is that not trying to solve the game?

Solving me isn't solving the game.

You have never even tried to evaluate the game from the point of view where i am telling the truth. You don't even give me credit for claiming the role. You only response is dumb gifs which pretty much state "scum could do that"

Sure but 90% of the time you are coming up with huge scum mega plays you are just being willfuly ignorant. You though tI was town yesterday, so did many people. If I am scum why do I even need to gambit here? To style on you? Fuck no.

i saw the DCPat flip and realised the game cannot be as simple as it seems. So wake up to that fact.

FluxWaveZ · Feb 19, 2019

Faddy said:
i saw the DCPat flip and realised the game cannot be as simple as it seems. So wake up to that fact.

The issue, though, is that your claim did more harm than good. It's fair that your role made you think that for yourself, since only you know who you truly are, but the seemingly out-of-place claim threw things into chaos for the rest of us who don't have the information. So now we're forced to focus on whether to have you prove who you are or not, when you could have kept it to yourself and we'd focus on other things (and more important, if you are truly town).

Meatwad · Feb 19, 2019

Faddy what exactly compelled you to roleclaim? Why did you think coming forward with your role would be helpful to town?

Faddy · Feb 19, 2019

FluxWaveZ said:
The issue, though, is that your claim did more harm than good. It's fair that your role made you think that for yourself, since only you know who you truly are, but the seemingly out-of-place claim threw things into chaos for the rest of us who don't have the information. So now we're forced to focus on whether to have you prove who you are or not, when you could have kept it to yourself and we'd focus on other things (and more important, if you are truly town).

Why else do I claim but for the benefit of town.

All I have done by claiming is put myself up for the lynch.

Here is some Faddy meta.

Conspiracy: As town I get a rather benign role and claim for lols on day 1 to get reactions
Brexit: Scum, I bus my partner day1 and lose
Mafiera: Scum. absolutely zero bussing and win

You think I am going back to a losing strategy bussing cabot on day 1?

On top of that I have been pretty open about all my reads in this game and have absolutely no problem giving responses and arguments. That is wildly different from my scum games.

Let's be honest about this. This is a policy lynch because you don't believe Pedro would put certain roles in a game. Don't go crying about it when you are wrong. The closed mindedness here, and some of you must be town, is going to lose us the game.

Faddy · Feb 19, 2019

Meatwad said:
Faddy what exactly compelled you to roleclaim? Why did you think coming forward with your role would be helpful to town?

Seeing DCPat's flip and going HOLY SHIT there are 2 unlynchables. WTF is going on in this game.

And then hoping town would help try to work that out today.

Meatwad · Feb 19, 2019

Faddy said:
Seeing DCPat's flip and going HOLY SHIT there are 2 unlynchables. WTF is going on in this game.

And then hoping town would help try to work that out today.

But you had to account for the possibility town would doubt your claim

FluxWaveZ · Feb 19, 2019

Faddy said:
Why else do I claim but for the benefit of town.

If you're town. you miscalculated. You thought you had more trust than you do and made a claim thinking town would not question it, and go to step 2 to reason out the "why." But that's obviously not how things work, and you should have known that.

This wouldn't be a policy lynch. It'd be a lynch to verify your identity, and possibly get another confirmed town from it. And there's also the chance that you're scum and we lynch scum. There's not that much to lose, but I am still wary about letting a day go by without a lynch if what you say is true. But, then again, if what you say is true, and your power does come into play, we also gain a lot from knowing it.

Fran · Feb 19, 2019

Faddy said:
Solving me isn't solving the game.

You have never even tried to evaluate the game from the point of view where i am telling the truth. You don't even give me credit for claiming the role. You only response is dumb gifs which pretty much state "scum could do that"

Sure but 90% of the time you are coming up with huge scum mega plays you are just being willfuly ignorant. You though tI was town yesterday, so did many people. If I am scum why do I even need to gambit here? To style on you? Fuck no.

i saw the DCPat flip and realised the game cannot be as simple as it seems. So wake up to that fact.

How is not solving you part of solving the game? Are you not part of the game? All the rest of us don't know your aligment so trying to solve you is not meaningless.

I can't evaluate the game from the point where you are telling the truth because I find that claim pretty much impossible. Even you admited it before. You are claiming an unlynchable in a 14 players game right after another unlynchable was killed. I'm sorry but I have to play with the info that is public and that info contradicts what you are claiming. So of course I'm to push that point because there are inconsistencies there.

I was leaning town until yesterday and was leaning town until the roleclaim but that claim change things. Why would you claim? How would I know? But going into that is going into WIFOM arguments when we already has an actual fact that contradicts your claim.

And when I asked you why do you think we have 2 lynchproofs and your answer was:

Faddy said:
The explanation is that Pedro put it in his game.

So don't tell me that the game isn't simple when I already asked about this and you completely dismissed it.

Faddy · Feb 19, 2019

Meatwad said:
But you had to account for the possibility town would doubt your claim

I knew people would doubt my claim. It doesn't make it not true.

The people saying I claimed to protect myself are not thinking straight. I actively put myself in the firing line to get info into the game.

If DCPat had claimed yesterday I would have counterclaimed him. I too would not have believed we both have a similar role. But despite Fran's insistence this is not a counter claim.

Faddy · Feb 19, 2019

Fran said:
I can't evaluate the game from the point where you are telling the truth because I find that claim pretty much impossible. Even you admited it before. You are claiming an unlynchable in a 14 players game right after another unlynchable was killed. I'm sorry but I have to play with the info that is public and that info contradicts what you are claiming. So of course I'm to push that point because there are inconsistencies there.

Can't or Won't?

exodus · Feb 19, 2019

FluxWaveZ said:
Exodus, you tend to bring up your defense of DCPat being right as significant town points in your favor, but I don't think it is. If you were scum, you'd of course know everyone else's alignments (to an extent). Heavily defending someone you know is town doesn't mean that much, in that case.

I've never brought it up. I've only responded to others who have brought it up. I only gave my reasons for why I thought we shouldn't lynch DC. Never assumed or suggested that it should give me a pass.

exodus · Feb 19, 2019

Faddy said:
You have never even tried to evaluate the game from the point of view where i am telling the truth. You don't even give me credit for claiming the role. You only response is dumb gifs which pretty much state "scum could do that"

From the point of view that you're telling the truth, Chug and Zeke would probably be my top suspects since they're the ones that seem to be opposing your lynch the most. I expect scum to oppose your lynch for a few reasons:

1) To avoid wasting a lynch when they could actually kill town instead....they'd have to NK you to get rid of you anyways
2) To gain town points for not wanting to lynch town

FluxWaveZ · Feb 19, 2019

exodus said:
I've never brought it up. I've only responded to others who have brought it up. I only gave my reasons for why I thought we shouldn't lynch DC. Never assumed or suggested that it should give me a pass.

That's fair, I guess I was mainly referring to this comment:

exodus said:
Also no one has ever given me town points for saving DC. Swamped went on the pre-offensive that actually trying to save a townie was a scum move. Lynching a townie is a scum move. Saving a townie is a scum move. Being indecisive is a scum move. Being inflexible is a scum move. At least admit that you're trying to make your narrative fit your bias.

exodus · Feb 19, 2019

Also, from the point of view that you're telling the truth, what would you think is the scum counterbalance to your role? I have to think it's more than Simon's thunderdome.

exodus · Feb 19, 2019

FluxWaveZ said:
That's fair, I guess I was mainly referring to this comment:

Yeah sorry I didn't post that with proper context. Someone earlier claimed that I was looking for "town points" by trying to save DC, and that was still fresh in my mind. Didn't mean that I should be getting town points for doing so.

exodus · Feb 19, 2019

Apologies, went back and re-read Zeke's posts. He's down for a Faddy lynch, so I wouldn't put him as scum if you end up town.

Faddy · Feb 19, 2019

exodus said:
Also, from the point of view that you're telling the truth, what would you think is the scum counterbalance to your role? I have to think it's more than Simon's thunderdome.

It could be as simple as them having 4 members. It could be a Serial Killer who has decided not to shoot yet

I'm pretty sure they have a direct cop counter with a godfather or ninja -or- we don't have a cop at all.

I think there are a good few posibilities but I think a non-shooting SK is most likely or it is Apollo who already showed a day kill.

Look for those that don't believe me here is a compromise. We should lynch Meatwad. If he is scum then I am even more lock clear unless you think after cabot is vigged I immediately call out my partner again.

I don't really see a good case for him to be town outside of a light PR read which now seems wrong.

EzekelRAGE · Feb 19, 2019

exodus said:
From the point of view that you're telling the truth, Chug and Zeke would probably be my top suspects since they're the ones that seem to be opposing your lynch the most. I expect scum to oppose your lynch for a few reasons:

1) To avoid wasting a lynch when they could actually kill town instead....they'd have to NK you to get rid of you anyways
2) To gain town points for not wanting to lynch town

Where have i opposed the faddy lynch?

EzekelRAGE said:
Faddys claim is interesting:

1. He didn't need to claim. Seems weak, he could've just let ppl make a case onhim and see how it turned out, then TADA. I'm still alive.

But it seems he claimed to get ahead of continuing to be scumread.

2. As already stated, that doesn't mesh well with dc's role. It seems we have an Simon rule and dc to counter cabot, now we have another lynchproof person?

3. The 5 minute in between twilight doesn't gel with me. That seems like too tight of a window. I only experienced a governor once, in kingdom hearts mafia. In there the governor was a day command you could use at any point during the day it HAD to be b4 the day ended.

I think we should test the claim and not let it linger for too long. One thing we could do is test the claim, see then no lynch, then discuss in the night phase.

EzekelRAGE said:
4. Faddy also said he is only using it on himself, so nothing really loss in that area.

EzekelRAGE said:
Going more in on this. It had to be before a majority was reached as well. If either happened the power could no longer be used.

exodus · Feb 19, 2019

EzekelRAGE said:
Where have i opposed the faddy lynch?

I misremembered.

exodus said:
Apologies, went back and re-read Zeke's posts. He's down for a Faddy lynch, so I wouldn't put him as scum if you end up town.

TheChuggernaut · Feb 19, 2019

I would get behind a Meatwad lynch. The only reasons I backed down from that was because I thought Faddy was on some crazy shit

FluxWaveZ · Feb 19, 2019

TheChuggernaut said:
I would get behind a Meatwad lynch. The only reasons I backed down from that was because I thought Faddy was on some crazy shit

And if Meatwad ends up being town, then what (in regards to Faddy)?

Meatwad · Feb 19, 2019

Faddy said:
It could be as simple as them having 4 members. It could be a Serial Killer who has decided not to shoot yet

I'm pretty sure they have a direct cop counter with a godfather or ninja -or- we don't have a cop at all.

I think there are a good few posibilities but I think a non-shooting SK is most likely or it is Apollo who already showed a day kill.

Look for those that don't believe me here is a compromise. We should lynch Meatwad. If he is scum then I am even more lock clear unless you think after cabot is vigged I immediately call out my partner again.

I don't really see a good case for him to be town outside of a light PR read which now seems wrong.

So instead of lynching you, Which if you are to be believed you can survive and confirming you that way, you want to clear yourself by lynching a townie instead. You are not helping your case here tbh

Faddy · Feb 19, 2019

Meatwad said:
So instead of lynching you, Which if you are to be believed you can survive and confirming you that way, you want to clear yourself by lynching a townie instead. You are not helping your case here tbh

And when i override the lynch and still want to lynch you what will you do then.

exodus · Feb 19, 2019

If we bring the vote to a hammer , Faddy will be stressing the fuck out if he's telling the truth lol. Just let it sit at a hammer for a day and he won't get any sleep.

Meatwad · Feb 19, 2019

Faddy said:
And when i override the lynch and still want to lynch you what will you do then.

I'll be perfectly find with that because you'll be confirmed and we wouldn't have lynched a townie.

I don't expect anybody here to believe I'm town based in just my word alone. I can tell you lynching me would be a bad move, but it's fair enough if you don't buy that.

What is 100% certain is I am an unkown quantity and lynching me is one of the riskiest moves town can take right now. Nevermind that it's the wrong move.

At least Faddy if we lynch you and you override it, we've lost nothing and gained valuable info. You should be jumping at the chance to be 100% confirmed and get this cloud of doubt removed from over your head. I know I'd want to in your posistion.

Faddy · Feb 19, 2019

Meatwad said:
I don't expect anybody here to believe I'm town based in just my word alone. I can tell you lynching me would be a bad move, but it's fair enough if you don't buy that.

You couldn't be softing a PR any harder here btw.

Just claim and we can move on. Like I said to Zeke yesterday these games are never balanced around PRs solving the game. You are actually supposed to think about things.(hiya Fran)

Meatwad · Feb 19, 2019

Faddy said:
You couldn't be softing a PR any harder here btw.

Just claim and we can move on. Like I said to Zeke yesterday these games are never balanced around PRs solving the game. You are actually supposed to think about things.(hiya Fran)

I'm sure scum would love for me to claim. I bet they're dying for clues on who best to kill tonight

Faddy · Feb 19, 2019

Meatwad said:
I'm sure scum would love for me to claim. I bet they're dying for clues on who best to kill tonight

This is the exact non-denial that flux used in MafiEra.

It is obvious you are a PR. If you don't want to claim the exact role just say you are a PR and I am right.

SalvaPot · Feb 19, 2019

Swamped said:
I wish some other people would chime in too. Would love to hear more from Apollo, our other semi-confirmed, Salvapot, and Flux.

Wait, what makes me and Flux semi-confirmed on your eyes?

Simon Says Mafia - I would never lie to you, please do what I say

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