Simon Says Mafia - I would never lie to you, please do what I say

FluxWaveZ · Feb 20, 2019

To me, it doesn't really matter if the power has existed before or not and we've had community members engage with it. As I said before, the twilight restriction isn't even a reason for me to doubt the role. In isolation for this particular game, however, there are a lot of questions. And it's why I think the priority should be to check it out.

Meatwad said:
I gotta be honest I'm not 100% sure where I stand regarding Faddy. What's keeping me from going with a Faddy scum read is the fact that his roleclaim is so absurd that I cannot think of a reason scum Faddy under no pressure at all would make that claim. I'm going with a neutral read for Faddy right now.

It's not like Faddy's going to die if his claim is true.

malus · Feb 20, 2019

EzekelRAGE said:
Malus, if faddy's claim is true. What happens next to your scum team of faddy+ 1 of swamp/chug?

I'm actually not quite sure. If Faddys claim is true, scum wouldn't have an incentive to lynch him, so I would still be suspicious of them. Another point is if Faddy is indeed town, scum has no reason to doubt the claim. So anyway you put it, Swamped and TheChuggernaut don't come out looking good.

Faddy said:
Malus if you think exo is townie for thinking my claim is scum what do you think of Fran for thinking my claim was a neutral?

It does seem strange to jump immediately to neutral from the claim, but I'm not sure why scum would assume a neutral and not just town having your claimed power.
Actually this plays into the answer to Zekes post: Scum has no reason to doubt the claim unless they believe there is a neutral. So I guess if you're telling the truth it would be worth looking into Fran.

Faddy said:
Also for malus. You were scum reading salvapot yesterday but now he isn't on your list?

At that point I didn't have any strong scum reads and salvapot had some very strange posts before that, but he has since given some good input and I actually agree with a lot of what he says so he's moved up on the town scale.

Faddy said:
Again malus did you click through to the Invitational to the exact same restriction on a governor role?

I clicked through it but didn't find the exact restrictions.

Faddy · Feb 20, 2019

Fran said:
Yes, and I couldn't find monkey's flip anywhere. I didn't read the whole game to look if she gave specifics but she was alive at the end of the game and Ouro didn't posted her flip when game ended.

Besides that, I think that you can talk about other games but you not allowed to post links to them so maybe you should check with Pedro if that's ok so you don't suffer a warning.

You absolutely can post links to other games. It is almost like there is a big list of rules at the start of the game. Spamming links to the old site breaks rule 1. There is no resetera rule about linking to outer.

And again you are deflecting here.
Retro ends the day, monkey posts her command a minute after day ends.
Her power was only available in the immediate time after end of day.

malus · Feb 20, 2019

Faddy said:
Everyone else has expressed some concern that my power is fake. That from my perspective must include scum. I think they don't believe my role which is why I think it is Fran, malus, Salva. They are going for the town cred because they have assumed I am lying and they will be proven right.

I don't quite understand this point. If you're telling the truth they won't be proven right.

Swamped · Feb 20, 2019

Meatwad said:
I gotta be honest I'm not 100% sure where I stand regarding Faddy. What's keeping me from going with a Faddy scum read is the fact that his roleclaim is so absurd that I cannot think of a reason scum Faddy under no pressure at all would make that claim. I'm going with a neutral read for Faddy right now.

neutral as in null or neutral as in you think he is a third party?

Swamped · Feb 20, 2019

EzekelRAGE said:
Interesting, what makes you say that? I've never been scum on this site.

Last time I was scum was in gods and men iirc on neogaf. That was years ago and wasnt a normal game. I was a god that couldnt be lynched.

Other time I was scum was Overwatch mafia and I was killed N1 iirc.

So are you just referring to the god game?

Yep, I was thinking of the Gods game. We were both scum, but you were essentially a lost partner if I remember correctly. We were looking for you, but I just couldn't believe you could be the lost partner because you felt so town.

Faddy · Feb 20, 2019

malus said:
suspicious of them. Another point is if Faddy is indeed town, scum has no reason to doubt the claim. So anyway you put it, Swamped and TheChuggernaut don't come out looking good.

Scum do have reason to doubt my claim. They want to know if I am a neutral who can help them win.

Faddy · Feb 20, 2019

malus said:
I don't quite understand this point. If you're telling the truth they won't be proven right.

Scum think I am lying.

TheChuggernaut · Feb 20, 2019

Faddy said:
Scum do have reason to doubt my claim. They want to know if I am a neutral who can help them win.

Yeah, this is why I think Exodus is wrong town. Scum have no idea if you're actually telling the truth so for all they know, you're bluffing and this is going to get you killed.

Swamped · Feb 20, 2019

FluxWaveZ said:
The question isn't if it's a scum power. The question is if it's a power at all. There is no way scum has that power. Which is why, if Faddy is lynched and it is used, it's a confirmation that he's town.

Why can't scum have this power?

FluxWaveZ · Feb 20, 2019

Swamped said:
Why can't scum have this power?

You think scum would have a power to not only prevent themselves from being lynched, but prevent one of their teammates from being lynched?

malus · Feb 20, 2019

Faddy said:
Scum do have reason to doubt my claim. They want to know if I am a neutral who can help them win.

but why would a neutral claim out of the blue?

You having the example from the invitational at hand could also point to the fact that you thought this would be a good fake claim, but that's probably going a bit too far into conspiracy theory territory.

I don't know... I would still rather confirm the claim than having the same discussion for the next couple of days.

TheChuggernaut · Feb 20, 2019

malus said:
but why would a neutral claim out of the blue?

You having the example from the invitational at hand could also point to the fact that you thought this would be a good fake claim, but that's probably going a bit too far into conspiracy theory territory.

I don't know... I would still rather confirm the claim than having the same discussion for the next couple of days.

Why would scum claim out of the blue?

FluxWaveZ · Feb 20, 2019

TheChuggernaut said:
Why would scum claim out of the blue?

Why would town claim out of the blue? The scenarios all don't make sense from some perspectives, and make sense from others. Which is why it's important to demystify it.

TheChuggernaut · Feb 20, 2019

FluxWaveZ said:
Why would town claim out of the blue? The scenarios all don't make sense from some perspectives, and make sense from others. Which is why it's important to demystify it.

Town claims out of the blue all the time. It makes way more sense then the other two.

Meatwad · Feb 20, 2019

Swamped said:
neutral as in null or neutral as in you think he is a third party?

Neutral as in Null read, though I do believe Faddy has already claimed his role is neutral

FluxWaveZ · Feb 20, 2019

TheChuggernaut said:
Town claims out of the blue all the time. It makes way more sense then the other two.

Heh, come on. We just came from a game where scum claimed out of the blue twice.

malus · Feb 20, 2019

TheChuggernaut said:
Why would scum claim out of the blue?

I don't know. To me it looks like Faddy tried to cement his town status. As I said earlier, I town read him before and if not for the 5 minute restriction I would have believed the claim and he would be semi confirmed town for me.

I just think the claim is fake because if I had received that role I would probably have asked for a replacement since I could never use this power. And that seems like bad game design (sorry Pedro if it is correct).

TheChuggernaut · Feb 20, 2019

FluxWaveZ said:
Heh, come on. We just came from a game where scum claimed out of the blue twice.

Turmoil and Pirate Bae? That ended up getting Turmoil killed and Bae killed when they had someone check it. Those aren't the reasons why they won the game. And I wouldn't say either of those were out of the blue

EzekelRAGE · Feb 20, 2019

malus said:
I'm actually not quite sure. If Faddys claim is true, scum wouldn't have an incentive to lynch him, so I would still be suspicious of them. Another point is if Faddy is indeed town, scum has no reason to doubt the claim. So anyway you put it, Swamped and TheChuggernaut don't come out looking good.
.

Are your scum reads of swamped and Chuggs due directly with faddy 's claim and how they reacted?

Swamped said:
Yep, I was thinking of the Gods game. We were both scum, but you were essentially a lost partner if I remember correctly. We were looking for you, but I just couldn't believe you could be the lost partner because you felt so town.

I don't agree with your read of the game, but ok.
Fran i don't think you answered my question. What happens if faddy's claim is true?

Faddy · Feb 20, 2019

malus said:
I don't know. To me it looks like Faddy tried to cement his town status. As I said earlier, I town read him before and if not for the 5 minute restriction I would have believed the claim and he would be semi confirmed town for me.

I just think the claim is fake because if I had received that role I would probably have asked for a replacement since I could never use this power. And that seems like bad game design (sorry Pedro if it is correct).

I have evaluated that it is only really worthwhile using the role on myself because there are far too many negatives to something else with it. Only being able to no lynch is very anti town unless we are definitely in MYLO then I can prove it.

Negative utility roles exist all the time. Things like the scum post restrictor in Buck bumble should never have been used either, especially since they had a ninja. Any random town role where you have the choice of doing something useless is mostly just there to mess with town prs.

Replacing out because you don't like your role is stupid. Some roles are meant to be harder to play than others.

FluxWaveZ · Feb 20, 2019

TheChuggernaut said:
Turmoil and Pirate Bae? That ended up getting Turmoil killed and Bae killed when they had someone check it. Those aren't the reasons why they won the game. And I wouldn't say either of those were out of the blue

Turmoil's claim was out of the blue for where things were at. The other one I was thinking of was Faddy, but sure, that one works, too.

Either way, this is an indication that it's not out of the question for scum to do this. Weighing whether it's more reasonable for town to do it or scum to do it isn't even that important. What's important is determining if the role even exists. Faddy himself said he'd only use it if he was the one getting lynched, which means we wouldn't know about it until that scenario. Better to get it over with now than at a more critical juncture in the future where we find ourselves potentially cornered.

Faddy · Feb 20, 2019

FluxWaveZ said:
Heh, come on. We just came from a game where scum claimed out of the blue twice.

None of those claims were out of the blue. Turmoil and Bae claimed under pressure. I claimed under pressure.

EzekelRAGE · Feb 20, 2019

exodus said:
I didn't say voting. I said the ones going hard on Faddy. That's actually just really Fran. Maybe Salva and Malus. Swamped went in on him but veered away somewhat, so I wouldn't consider her pure town.

Alright

malus why no vote on faddy yet?

=======
What would be the win condition of a neutral faddy?

TheChuggernaut · Feb 20, 2019

FluxWaveZ said:
Turmoil's claim was out of the blue for where things were at. The other one I was thinking of was Faddy, but sure, that one works, too.

Either way, this is an indication that it's not out of the question for scum to do this. Weighing whether it's more reasonable for town to do it or scum to do it isn't even that important. What's important is determining if the role even exists. Faddy himself said he'd only use it if he was the one getting lynched, which means we wouldn't know about it until that scenario. Better to get it over with now than at a more critical juncture in the future where we find ourselves potentially cornered.

Faddy was even more under pressure then Pirate Bae was and I honestly forgot he even claimed. If you really want to test it, go for it. I don't think I'm going to talk you guys out of it. I'm pretty sure we're just wasting a day with this though

FluxWaveZ · Feb 20, 2019

Faddy said:
None of those claims were out of the blue. Turmoil and Bae claimed under pressure. I claimed under pressure.

Yeah, those scenarios are not akin to this one. But it's not like they were "I need to claim or I'm definitely going to be lynched" scenarios, either.

TheChuggernaut said:
Faddy was even more under pressure then Pirate Bae was and I honestly forgot he even claimed. If you really want to test it, go for it. I don't think I'm going to talk you guys out of it. I'm pretty sure we're just wasting a day with this though

How is it a waste of a day? You yourself picked the modifier that we'll be able to talk during the night phase. Which means that we'll have plenty to discuss before the next day phase, but after the "flip." This is the perfect day phase to verify Faddy's claim.

TheChuggernaut · Feb 20, 2019

FluxWaveZ said:
How is it a waste of a day? You yourself picked the modifier that we'll be able to talk during the night phase. Which means that we'll have plenty to discuss before the next day phase, but after the "flip." This is the perfect day phase to verify Faddy's claim.

Because I think hitting scum is always more beneficial and I don't think Faddy is scum

malus · Feb 20, 2019

Faddy said:
I have evaluated that it is only really worthwhile using the role on myself because there are far too many negatives to something else with it. Only being able to no lynch is very anti town unless we are definitely in MYLO then I can prove it.

Negative utility roles exist all the time. Things like the scum post restrictor in Buck bumble should never have been used either, especially since they had a ninja. Any random town role where you have the choice of doing something useless is mostly just there to mess with town prs.

Replacing out because you don't like your role is stupid. Some roles are meant to be harder to play than others.

It wouldn't be because I didn't like the role, it would be because It is physically impossible for me to use it with the restrictions given, while another player may not have that problem.

FluxWaveZ · Feb 20, 2019

TheChuggernaut said:
Because I think hitting scum is always more beneficial and I don't think Faddy is scum

Of course. But I'd rather take the guarantee of more information and the bonus of town not being lynched if Faddy's telling the truth than a mislynch and being 2 down going into the next day phase.

Faddy · Feb 20, 2019

Everyone who says they just want to test the claim needs to say now they believe I am 100% town if it is true.

We aren't testing it so you can come out with arguments that I am a scum counter to DCPat tomorrow.

Fran · Feb 20, 2019

TheChuggernaut said:
I feel better about my read on him at Fran right now, and I want to get some actual posts from Fran, but for he comes in and destroys my argument

This is crap and you know it. If you want answers, make questions. This "he will destrou my argument" looks really scummy to me. If you are town why are you worried that I could refute your arguments?

EzekelRAGE said:
Actually @Fran and @ malus it seems both of you have been big proponents in testing the claim. Or outright scumreading Faddy. It seems the bulk of your posts have to do with it. Why haven't you guys put down votes yet?

Because I wasn't around much.

EzekelRAGE said:
Same question to you @Fran as malus, what happens if faddy is telling the truth?

We will have another confirmed townie. And we can shout at Pedro for adding 2 lynchables in a 14 players game.

Faddy said:
Here is my perspective on people believing me.

I think chuggs has the most reason to believe since I gave him the the Simon power. Maybe he has pocketed me...

Swamped seemed genuine and trying to solve the game and evaluate it. I thought she was town for a few reasons but she is the more likely out of these two to be scum.

Apollo is for me and unlikely to be with Cabot unless scum are just shooting each other for lols.

Everyone else has expressed some concern that my power is fake. That from my perspective must include scum. I think they don't believe my role which is why I think it is Fran, malus, Salva. They are going for the town cred because they have assumed I am lying and they will be proven right.

Remember scum doesn't know if I am telling the truth or not, they only know I am not with them, which is why Fran's neutral comment was a scum tell.

So everyone that believes you is town. People that doubt you is scum. OK.

malus said:
It does seem strange to jump immediately to neutral from the claim, but I'm not sure why scum would assume a neutral and not just town having your claimed power.
Actually this plays into the answer to Zekes post: Scum has no reason to doubt the claim unless they believe there is a neutral. So I guess if you're telling the truth it would be worth looking into Fran.

I don't believe that town would have that power because I don't believe that we would have 2 town unlynchables. So either Faddy is a neutral unlynchable or he is a lying scum. My first thought was why he would claim that if he doesnt' have the role so he should have it and is a neutral.

Now I don't believe him. And it's not only because of the twilight thing but also how he went after Meatwad.

Faddy said:
Her power was only available in the immediate time after end of day.

How do we know that if there is no flip. We don't know when she could use it. Maybe she could use it during the day as a normal override but she decided against it. That's why I asked you when you could use it as soon as you claimed.

Swamped said:
Why can't scum have this power?

Because a unlynchable scum is the most OP role ever? The only way that town can deal with scum is with a lynch (and vig but that's another story). Taking that power from town and giving it to scum is OP. The only option would be is the scum team is really small, like only 2 players. And even then is still OP.

malus · Feb 20, 2019

Faddy said:
Everyone who says they just want to test the claim needs to say now they believe I am 100% town if it is true.

We aren't testing it so you can come out with arguments that I am a scum counter to DCPat tomorrow.

I think I already said you would be confirmed town if the claim is true.

TheChuggernaut · Feb 20, 2019

Fran said:
This is crap and you know it. If you want answers, make questions. This "he will destrou my argument" looks really scummy to me. If you are town why are you worried that I could refute your arguments?

The post search function was acting funky for me last night and I'm still not sure if I actually lean scum for you or not. And let's be real, scum Fran is just as good at refuting arguments a scum town Fran

Faddy · Feb 20, 2019

Fran said:
So everyone that believes you is town. People that doubt you is scum. OK.

I don't think it is swamped and Chuggernaut. Therefore scum is definitely doubting my claim.

Unless you want to say Apollo is scum?

EzekelRAGE · Feb 20, 2019

Faddy said:
Everyone who says they just want to test the claim needs to say now they believe I am 100% town if it is true.

We aren't testing it so you can come out with arguments that I am a scum counter to DCPat tomorrow.

I would believe you are town if the claim is true.

I don't think scum would have that power. Especially with cabot having the hammer power.

I dont see the power for a neutral. Even if you are neutral with that power that proves you dont have a "negative" impact on town.

Best case your town, worst case you are harmless neutral.

Faddy · Feb 20, 2019

Fran said:
We will have another confirmed townie. And we can shout at Pedro for adding 2 lynchables in a 14 players game.

This game was reviewed (and not by Cabot) so there is a good chance it is balanced. We haven't seen all the roles.

Unless you are crying foul because you know the make up of the scum team.

Fran · Feb 20, 2019

This post is the one that makes me feel that Faddy isn't town.

Faddy said:
Look for those that don't believe me here is a compromise. We should lynch Meatwad. If he is scum then I am even more lock clear unless you think after cabot is vigged I immediately call out my partner again.

How would we confirm Faddy if we lynch Meatwad? He isn't even saying that he will use his power on Meatwad. He just want us to lynch him.

Faddy is just buying time now. He claimed that because he thought that town wouldn't want to prove his claim and would give him an extra phase.

After people are doubting him he ask for us to lynch Meatwad to confirm him. But he never offer to use his power.

He spent 2 days rolefishing to give targets for scum to kill so they wouldn't target him. And directing the cop to any other target than him.

EzekelRAGE · Feb 20, 2019

Fran said:
Because I wasn't around much.

We will have another confirmed townie. And we can shout at Pedro for adding 2 lynchables in a 14 players game.
.

Ok

exodus · Feb 20, 2019

EzekelRAGE said:
What would be the win condition of a neutral faddy?

I've been wondering that. I don't think he's neutral. If he's neutral we can assume his power is other than what he claimed. But his claim were to be accepted by town it makes him an early NK target since scum knows it could kill a thunderdome. I think it's a bad claim for a neutral to make, and as such I don't think Faddy is neutral.

Meatwad · Feb 20, 2019

Faddy said:
Everyone who says they just want to test the claim needs to say now they believe I am 100% town if it is true.

We aren't testing it so you can come out with arguments that I am a scum counter to DCPat tomorrow.

Un-lynchable scum would be too OP, Unless Apollo's role is meant to be a counter to that. Hmmmmmm

Swamped · Feb 20, 2019

I realized my vote is still on exo, but I'm not sure that's the best lynch for the day

UNVOTE

Pedro · Feb 20, 2019

==== DAY 3 VOTES ====
Day Start

Faddy (3 votes)
exodus - #766
FluxWaveZ - #970
SalvaPot - #1,015

exodus (1 votes)
EzekelRAGE - #904
~~Swamped - #905~~ #1,141

SalvaPot (1 votes)
TheChuggernaut - #1,068

malus (1 votes)
Apollo - #1,077

Fran (1 votes)
Faddy - #863

Not voting: Swamped, Fran, Meatwad, malus

Post Counts:
Faddy: 103 exodus: 66 TheChuggernaut: 52 FluxWaveZ: 34 EzekelRAGE: 31 Swamped: 26 Fran: 25 SalvaPot: 21 malus: 15 Meatwad: 13 Apollo: 11

Current Countdown:

Click here to go to the Vote Tool!

Fran · Feb 20, 2019

Faddy said:
I don't think it is swamped and Chuggernaut. Therefore scum is definitely doubting my claim.

Unless you want to say Apollo is scum?

When did I said that?

Faddy said:
This game was reviewed (and not by Cabot) so there is a good chance it is balanced. We haven't seen all the roles.

Unless you are crying foul because you know the make up of the scum team.

Any game with 2 unlynchables is insane and I can't think of a way for that to work in a small game like this.

Swamped · Feb 20, 2019

Fran said:
This post is the one that makes me feel that Faddy isn't town.

How would we confirm Faddy if we lynch Meatwad? He isn't even saying that he will use his power on Meatwad. He just want us to lynch him.

Faddy is just buying time now. He claimed that because he thought that town wouldn't want to prove his claim and would give him an extra phase.

After people are doubting him he ask for us to lynch Meatwad to confirm him. But he never offer to use his power.

He spent 2 days rolefishing to give targets for scum to kill so they wouldn't target him. And directing the cop to any other target than him.

Can you explain the bolded? The way I understand it, you are saying scum Faddy wouldn't want scum to target him?

Faddy · Feb 20, 2019

Fran said:
This post is the one that makes me feel that Faddy isn't town.

How would we confirm Faddy if we lynch Meatwad? He isn't even saying that he will use his power on Meatwad. He just want us to lynch him.

Faddy is just buying time now. He claimed that because he thought that town wouldn't want to prove his claim and would give him an extra phase.

After people are doubting him he ask for us to lynch Meatwad to confirm him. But he never offer to use his power.

He spent 2 days rolefishing to give targets for scum to kill so they wouldn't target him. And directing the cop to any other target than him.

It is like Meatwad hasn't been townie at all and deserved to be pressured.

After that he spoke up and pretty much confirmed he is a PR.

Faddy · Feb 20, 2019

Fran why am I not killing meatwad night 1?

Meatwad · Feb 20, 2019

Not gonna be around later for day end so I'm just gonna vote Faddy. If he saves himself, great I won't further question his status. If he doesn't and flips scum also great. Either way we'll be able to clear this uncertainty and shift our focus elsewhere.

VOTE: Faddy

Faddy · Feb 20, 2019

Fran said:
He spent 2 days rolefishing to give targets for scum to kill so they wouldn't target him. And directing the cop to any other target than him.

This is also a perspective slip. I thought I was Mafia. I can't target myself.

He thinks I am neutral because I'm not on his scum team.

exodus · Feb 20, 2019

TheChuggernaut said:
Because I think hitting scum is always more beneficial and I don't think Faddy is scum

There are potentially 2 scum out of 10 players left. We still have nothing to go on other that mild character analysis, and none of us have any strong leads. Our odds of hitting scum are effectively 1/5. If Faddy is telling the truth, we'll be at 2 scum out of 9 players. That still affords us 4-5 days to lynch the last 2, with our odds increasing as time goes on. If Faddy is confirmed, scum will be forced to NK him or let a confirmed town go free. That gives more opportunity for our investigative roles to do their work.

I see no downsides in going after Faddy today.

Faddy · Feb 20, 2019

exodus said:
There are potentially 2 scum out of 10 players left. We still have nothing to go on other that mild character analysis, and none of us have any strong leads. Our odds of hitting scum are effectively 1/5. If Faddy is telling the truth, we'll be at 2 scum out of 9 players. That still affords us 4-5 days to lynch the last 2, with our odds increasing as time goes on. If Faddy is confirmed, scum will be forced to NK him or let a confirmed town go free. That gives more opportunity for our investigative roles to do their work.

I see no downsides in going after Faddy today.

And if I am telling the truth you don't see how there is an issue with the game where there is either a neutral we have to lynch or there are 4 scum.

We talked about this at the start of the day and it was the whole reason I claimed.

Simon Says Mafia - I would never lie to you, please do what I say

Persona Central

Persona Central

Persona Central

Persona Central

Persona Central

Persona Central

Persona Central