Simpsons creator Matt Groening on Apu: 'People love to pretend they're offended'

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Deleted member 11626

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Well obviously they moved from an environment where there was an accent? If I move to the south I don't lose a deep Brooklyn accent over night or at all.
Sure but kids born here are still mocked. I have had a number of Indian friends over the years that were born in the US and had the kind of accent you hear in the Midwest. That didn’t really stop the “thank you come again” taunts. It’s not exclusive to people that immigrate here.
 

TheGhost

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Oct 25, 2017
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The guy who made it was from Queens...
Yeah...from Queens, that explains a lot as far as why he had a rough childhood.
Sure but kids born here are still mocked. I have had a number of Indian friends over the years that were born in the US and had the kind of accent you hear in the Midwest. That didn’t really stop the “thank you come again” taunts. It’s not exclusive to people that immigrate here.
People get picked on, If they were white they would have been picked on for something else, If they were black they would have been picked on for something else.

Kids are mean assholes this is not new. Going to get picked on regardless.
 
Oct 26, 2017
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The most dissapointing fact that rises from this situation is that Groening obviously didn't watch the documentary and is unwilling to join the conversation. It figures, because he feels he's under attack.
 

Winny(๑•̀ㅂ•́)و

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The Simpsons didn't create this stereotype.
Perpetuating a stereotype is just as bad as creating it, worse even, especially when we're talking about a cartoon watched by millions of kids across the planet.

I don't get why people try to act like The Simpsons doesn't thrive on pushing stereotypes for laughs. It has always been like that and it was never particularly funny. Isn't Barney just a walking alcoholism joke, for example? Because of course it's hilarious to poke fun at people with addiction problems.

Sometimes you just have to be more responsible than this.
 

Driggonny

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Oct 26, 2017
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How about we believe people when they say something is offensive and not act like anything short of the worst possible scenario isn’t “bad enough.”

Stop making excuses.
 

gesicht

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People get picked on, If they were white they would have been picked on for something else, If they were black they would have been picked on for something else.

Kids are mean assholes this is not new. Going to get picked on regardless.
It's one thing to be picked on for the way you dress or act and another thing entirely to be picked on for the colour of your skin and your ethnic background. That's shit you can't change. It follows you everywhere you go, forever. Plus the lived experience is totally different. White kids grow up into white adults that "fit in" white society where white norms prevail. Indian kids grow up into Indian adults who continue to get shit on for being different.
 

LabRat

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Mar 16, 2018
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the documentary was fine and matt groening is wrong for just dismissing it's criticisms like that. it's not easy not being offended when someone calls out your work as "problematic", it's a very human reaction. imagine creating a tv show or whatever, it being a global phenomenon for 20+ year, making you a famous billionaire and the show being the center of your life and then someone calls it out as potentially racist. i don't know if i could take the criticism tbh. the question is how to solve the problem, make apu lose his accent? cut him from the show? cancel simpsons? i mean i doubt most indian americans would just want apu not show up in the show anymore. i watched the documentary but i can't remember if they presented any solutions to this problem? it definitely sucks though that so many indian americans have been stereotyped because of the show and they are absolutly right for being angered or depressed about it and calling it out. that isn't outrage culture.

what is outrage culture are certain posts here that just read "white people" or "matt groening the klansman", those are 100% annoying and don't help anyone
 

woman

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It kind of proves his point though. There is a group of people that go from controversy to controversy and magnify it to 1000 because they want to be accepted or need reassurance that they are truly progressive (probably to make up for something they are truly not progressive on) and they act a fool. I don't think MG was taking a shot at the people in the doc, more so the crazies that hopped on the band wagon.
Whether makes you feel better
 

The Archon

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User Warned: Dismissive towards concerns of racism.
There’s a speck of truth in that statement.
 

WrenchNinja

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What are the points the documentary brings up? I haven’t seen it.
1. Whether older immigrants identify with the character
2. Whether younger brown kids growing up in the 90s identify with the character
3. How the character has affected brown kids growing up in the 90s
4. The origins of Apu's accent
5. The origins of Apu's name
6. The dearth of brown representation in the media
7. Humanisation of Apu
8. The Simpsons attempts at reconciling with the problem (Much Apu about Something)
9. Racist caricatures in animation history
10. Conversations with the producer and Simpsons experts
 

Family

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Yes there are other stereotypes on Simpsons. Of White people.

Making fun of yourself has never been offensive. Obviously, white people making fun of other white people is not the same thing as promoting a damaging stereotype of a marginalised minority.

Its why black people can make fun of other black people and say the n word, but you can't.

This needs to be explained to lots of white people, I've learned.
 

Nairume

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Oct 25, 2017
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1. Whether older immigrants identify with the character
2. Whether younger brown kids growing up in the 90s identify with the character
3. How the character has affected brown kids growing up in the 90s
4. The origins of Apu's accent
5. The origins of Apu's name
6. The dearth of brown representation in the media
7. Humanisation of Apu
8. The Simpsons attempts at reconciling with the problem (Much Apu about Something)
9. Racist caricatures in animation history
10. Conversations with the producer and Simpsons experts
Also how Apu has informed how Hollywoo casting directors to ask for the accent when casting actors of South Asian and Middle Eastern descent.
 

Zygnosis

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I'm with Matt. People need to stop pretending to be offended by everything. It kills culture, comedy and entertainment.
 

sir_crocodile

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While it's true and a bit troubling that people seem a lot quicker to dogpile on things that are fairly innocous when you actually look at them properly, Apu is not a case of this.

The simpsons debuted almost 30 years, and what we have here is a series that has lasted so long that things that once would have been shrugged off are now being looked at with different standards. I'd have hoped Groening would have been big enough to realise that and try to see what other people are seeing. Hank Azaria to his credit did.

Ironically if the simpsons had ended in the late nineties after Sam Simon and Brad Bird left (to be honest when it probably should have), this would have never come up. But it has and if Groening still wants to continue the show he should deal with it.
 

Winny(๑•̀ㅂ•́)و

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Wow.

I think I’m going to walk away at this point and just hope you’re someone sat in a Russian state-sponsored troll centre.
Lulz. Is that the new go-to for "I don't like this opinion"? Rather than dismissing things you disagree with as a Russian plant, if you really do believe Barney isn't poking fun at people with alcohol addiction, I'd love to hear why.

I mean, Groening himself said they wanted Barney to be as pathetic as possible and the one time they tried making Barney sober they backtracked almost immediately because he wouldn't be as funny.

'cause people struggling with alcohol addiction is just hilarious.
 

Chittagong

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Uh oh, this thread is red banner ville.

Would be helpful if a a mod could please update the OP with some red text stating that agreeing with Matt Groening will earn you a warning or ban (if that is the case - that is at least what I take away from the ban messages?).
 
Nov 18, 2017
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Lulz. Is that the new go-to for "I don't like this opinion"? Rather than dismissing things you disagree with as a Russian plant, if you really do believe Barney isn't poking fun at people with alcohol addiction, I'd love to hear why.

I mean, Groening himself said they wanted Barney to be as pathetic as possible and the one time they tried making Barney sober they backtracked almost immediately because he wouldn't be as funny.

'cause people struggling with alcohol addiction is just hilarious.
You’re either disingenuous or very confused about the nature and purpose of humour and this doesn’t belong in this thread.
 

platocplx

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I'm with Matt. People need to stop pretending to be offended by everything. It kills culture, comedy and entertainment.
actually that form of comedy is probably the lowest form available. Joking about stereotypes making a stereotypical character etc its low brow its not brilliant it doesnt take any effort at all. so no its not all what its made up to be. There are way better forms of comedy and they could've made him as a character way better than just dumb indian jokes and a sterotypical lifestyle. But its all that a white person sees vs if there was an indian person writing the character you would see a lot more depth. Master of None is a great example of indian culture that you see time to time that is hilarious but at the same time fits a lot more comically.
 

Deleted member 39184

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Long time wealthy, white dude thinks he knows everything there needs to be known about a general population.
 

Winny(๑•̀ㅂ•́)و

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You’re either disingenuous or very confused about the nature and purpose of humour and this doesn’t belong in this thread.
Yes because not finding the mockery of drunk people funny means I don't understand what funny is.

As for it not belonging in this thread, I think it does. It's another example of The Simpsons perpetuating a stereotype for laughs. Apu isn't the only example of this, so the argument that they're not doing this on purpose or that people are only complaining because they like to be offended is bollocks.
 

weekev

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Everyone on that show is portrayed as stupid. Homer is the stupid American. Mr Burns is the evil rich stupid guy.

It’s a comedy ffs. He’s right. Why don’t people moan about Homer, bumblebee man and others? Apu actually has been portrayed as one of the intelligent men on the show.
Honestly I feel like you would benefit from watching the documentary by Hari Kondabolu, it will show you why that particular character is problematic and give you an insight as to how it has actually affected peoples lives. It is actually a well made documentary and worth a watch.
 

pj-

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Just to be clear, post #3 in this thread is a solid argument and not a drive by?
 

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actually that form of comedy is probably the lowest form available. Joking about stereotypes making a stereotypical character etc its low brow its not brilliant it doesnt take any effort at all. so no its not all what its made up to be. There are way better forms of comedy and they could've made him as a character way better than just dumb indian jokes and a sterotypical lifestyle. But its all that a white person sees vs if there was an indian person writing the character you would see a lot more depth. Master of None is a great example of indian culture that you see time to time that is hilarious but at the same time fits a lot more comically.
But comics are all too happy to jump right in and perpetuate their own stereotypes...I've seen Aziz Ansari do it several times in standup. Margaret Cho is probably the worst offender, she practically trades in offensive Korean stereotypes.

If these stereotypes are indeed so harmful, why are so many comedians continuing to peddle them?
 

ebs

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Oct 27, 2017
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Just to be clear, post #3 in this thread is a solid argument and not a drive by?
The quality of posts which go with the general moderator sentiment has always been held to a far, far lower standard than those which go against since this sites inception. Makes valuable discussion of any sensitive matters practically impossible.
 
Oct 26, 2017
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Has anybody involved with The Simpsons actually watched the documentary?

It's the same bullshit cycle: Defensiveness, handwaving Hari's documentary without bringing up any of his points, repeat.

It's the only reason I can think of for arguments this ridiculous. Like does Groening actually believe the South Asian people interviewed in the documentary were making up their negative racial experiences?
 

L Thammy

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But comics are all too happy to jump right in and perpetuate their own stereotypes...I've seen Aziz Ansari do it several times in standup. Margaret Cho is probably the worst offender, she practically trades in offensive Korean stereotypes.

If these stereotypes are indeed so harmful, why are so many comedians continuing to peddle them?
Funny enough, this is yet another thing which is discussed in the documentary.
 

platocplx

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But comics are all too happy to jump right in and perpetuate their own stereotypes...I've seen Aziz Ansari do it several times in standup. Margaret Cho is probably the worst offender, she practically trades in offensive Korean stereotypes.

If these stereotypes are indeed so harmful, why are so many comedians continuing to peddle them?
cheap laughs, they all mix it in between some more complex stuff, But its not always the ONLY thing. Yes there is shit ALL of us from different cultures do but its not the entire set. they are more like a build up to something else for the better comedians vs the ones who just are all "Mexicans do this durrr or indians do that durr man those white people tho durr" It has to be mixed in, but the best ones its not their only thing.
 

Megatherium

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Greoning is doing what the right do, and what several posters in this thread have done, which is make it easier for themselves by imagining a figurative white liberal behind any complaint. You will never see him or any of them tell an Indian person they are just looking to be offended. In fact look at any racial issue and they only have responses tailored to a white opponent. They tend to shut the fuck up when they realize an actual poc is in the discussion.
 

stupei

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Oct 26, 2017
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I think one thing people are missing is that, in saying the character Apu is in no way racist, they are acknowledging that at least some of the people who constantly reference him when interacting with Indian people also don't believe they're being racist in doing so. They're referencing a fun TV show everybody likes and that's totally harmless!

There's no reason to believe that all of those people would escalate to more extreme and overt racist bullying if Apu wasn't there for them as a socially acceptable point of reference.
 

Chaofahn

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A lot of people in this thread don’t seem to get the reason why people are offended with Apu and the showrunners’ responses - sure, the Simpsons is a parody of white America, but the majority of the writers are white American who base the comedy off the crazy experiences of other white Americans.

They’ve also written many episodes where they travel overseas, such as Japan, although in those episodes they would have had input by actors with backgrounds in the countries they visit (like George Takei in the Japan episode, for instance).

Apu was written from the very beginning from the perspective of white American writers whose only exposure to Indian American immigrants came from convenience stores. Not only that, Hank Azaria most likely based his accent Peter Seller’s take in The Party, which in itself is a hugely problematic film in terms of its brown-face portrayal.
 
Oct 25, 2017
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The quality of posts which go with the general moderator sentiment has always been held to a far, far lower standard than those which go against since this sites inception. Makes valuable discussion of any sensitive matters practically impossible.
I would like to know this as well.
It's not hard to work out why that post didn't get a warning while the other two did and it's not because this a politically correct horrible liberal echo chamber.
 

Alucrid

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Just to be clear, post #3 in this thread is a solid argument and not a drive by?
The quality of posts which go with the general moderator sentiment has always been held to a far, far lower standard than those which go against since this sites inception. Makes valuable discussion of any sensitive matters practically impossible.
I would like to know this as well.
did any of you bother to report the post that you have such a problem with?
 

ebs

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Oct 27, 2017
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It's not hard to work out why that post didn't get a warning while the other two did and it's not because this a politically correct horrible liberal echo chamber.
I agree that the two with warnings should get warnings, I just also think the other one should as well. It adds nothing to the discussion and it’s unnecessarily inflammatory. But maybe I’m missing something, you said it’s not hard to work out so what exactly about it made that post not a drive by?

did any of you bother to report the post that you have such a problem with?
I don’t use that feature enough, thanks for the reminder just did.
 
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ElectricBlanketFire

ElectricBlanketFire

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I agree that the two with warnings should get warnings, I just also think the other one should as well. It adds nothing to the discussion and it’s unnecessarily inflammatory. But maybe I’m missing something, you said it’s not hard to work out so what exactly about it made that post not a drive by?
They're implying that Era is a liberal echo chamber.
 
Oct 25, 2017
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I agree that the two with warnings should get warnings, I just also think the other one should as well. It adds nothing to the discussion and it’s unnecessarily inflammatory. But maybe I’m missing something, you said it’s not hard to work out so what exactly about it made that post not a drive by?
"I'm going to let the show speak for itself" right after he basically said this is a fake controversy drummed up by sensitive libtards with the implication that South Asian victims of racism don't exist.

So yes, telling someone who wants the show to speak for itself to shut the fuck up is a perfectly valid point and good advice.
 

Aerith

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Thread has been locked as it has been derailed. Please report posts or message a mod captain if you have questions or concerns about moderation in the future.
 
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