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Slowthai has a great career ahead of him aaaaaand it's gone (up: apology, see threadmark)
- Thread starter Calderc
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I've seen enough of her of UK panel shows to know that she's calling him a cunt here.
Perfectly handled from her. Didn't even drop her stage persona. Really embarrassing from him. If he doesn't make it big. He can always rewatch this endlessly on Youtube to see where it all went wrong.
Yikes, that's a great drive by take there.
Regardless of how much of an absolute tit he was - classist slurs ain't a good look. I mean, he was literally the most nominated person at the awards show - he wasn't "given" fame, he put out a fantastic album and was being recognised for it.
Looking at this clip, I'm wondering if there was a single moment of this whole show that wasn't awkward and full of "jokes" where you weren't quite sure if people were pissed off with each other.He's still a dick.. but the story completely changes out of context
Lola Coker on Twitter
“@NME what’s going on? 🤨 @slowthai @the1975 #NMEAwards2020 https://t.co/HodByVRJu7”twitter.com
Yeah everyone was steaming drunk. There were a couple of moments where drunk people had the mic and you just wished they had someone to usher them off. Even the hosts were just done with the whole thing by about halfway through. It was a real carcrash to watch.
Since when is that classism? Most of them have more money than me, yet they're the type of people who have jumped me in my home town 5 damn times.
I'm not going to try to convince you while your defenses are up. Google it and have a read.
and I had just heard him on the Gorillaz new song and thought, "oh I kind of like this, ill have to look into these ft's later". I think I can mark that off my list of things to do...
It'd be interesting to see the entire thing in context because this isn't how it's presented at all.
Perfectly? I dunno. That last part of the video is incredibly uncomfortable to watch. She was obviously really upset. I get playing it cool but acknowledging how he made her feel is appropriate. If she doesn't want to that's alright but making it known his actions aren't harmless is nice. The "I'm a player" angle is sort of flat considering but if that's how she wants to handle it, that's her life.
All I'm saying is I'm not well off and neither are many of my friends. Now obviously not all chavs are violent, some I've been friendly with because I knew them from a young age. But since I was 14 I've been looking over my shoulder just because I had long hair and liked metal. Hopefully that's not a countrywide issue, it certainly seemed less so in say Manchester the few times I've been there, but locally its been an issue for years.
Your comment was still classism no matter how you try to contextualise it.
BTW, I was you in the above story growing up.
Oh it definitely caught her off guard. She treated him like a heckler, I guess because it's what she knows. She's been doing stand up for years now.
Good article just popped up.
Shappi Khorsandi: Katherine Ryan is a seasoned comic – of course she wasn’t rattled by slowthai
Twitter can have as many conversations it likes about the ‘misogyny’ of the rapper’s comments. But in this profession, the troublemakers never faze you
www.independent.co.uk
This definitely adds context.He's still a dick.. but the story completely changes out of context
Lola Coker on Twitter
“@NME what’s going on? 🤨 @slowthai @the1975 #NMEAwards2020 https://t.co/HodByVRJu7”
Man, everyone was so drunk it's crazy.
Oh it definitely caught her off guard. She treated him like a heckler, I guess because it's what she knows. She's been doing stand up for years now.
Good article just popped up.
Shappi Khorsandi: Katherine Ryan is a seasoned comic – of course she wasn’t rattled by slowthai
Twitter can have as many conversations it likes about the ‘misogyny’ of the rapper’s comments. But in this profession, the troublemakers never faze you
Sure, they're treating it like a showbiz thing now and everyone is going to play it cool and let it pass. The real feelings and thoughts are more interesting though.
So because someone you consider a "chav" jumped you, no other "chav" deserves fame? Even one who is undeniably talented and one of the biggest breakouts of recent UK music? And you also say "most" of them have more money than you? Any more idiotic generalizations you have planned?
That's directly classism, not only that but nobody in the UK has commonly used the word "chav" in years so it's embarrasingly outdated classism.
EDIT: your previous post saying you know they aren't all violent wasn't live when I wrote this. Everything before that was still extremely classist and pretty stupid though. What's this about being "well off" as well, that's completely irrelevant.
I mean that's fair if you feel that way. I will say I dont get since I'm at the bottom of the ladder myself and most of these people grew up in owned houses while I was in a council house. Not even taking into account my current position is probably even worse off lol. But I will read into it like you suggested and lay off it since classism is a poison on this country so I'd rather try get a better perspective on it too.
In an odd way at least it's some reassurance it wasnt just a local thing growing up. I've always wanted to escape this town since but couldnt afford to, but I guess if I'd spent more time in other towns and cities I'd have likely ran into the same issues. It's an odd sense of reassurance for sure but I guess it removes a bit of resentment for the town.
Fwiw, I never really intended it to be taken with such seriousness and was more going for a joke about him sounding like an Ali G skit being that wasted, but since people were responding in a very serious manner I figured I should try address it properly rather than try excuse it with a misfired joke. Tbh hence the use of chav since like you say terms like that and greebo have been dead since these early teens days. And by extension I didnt actually mean with any seriousness that it should exclude them from fame.
That said, the element of classism I'm definitely not understanding here is how those better off than me can be subject to classism from me, but will also have a look into it since I'm personally subject of it almost constantly being a carer for a disabled person.
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There is a lot going on here beyond the single act.
Seeing it play out on stage could be traumatic for victims of current or former abuse; there's the topic of Intent Vs Impact - a conversation regarding how a man who understands these things could still feel entitled to make a joke of them via the shield of "understanding", but the very behaviour he mimics could cause harm.
Should we "play it cool and let it pass"? No, we should call it out and say "do better". This is not a moment to burn the person, though, as long as they move on from this and DO better what more can we reasonably expect?
I like that we got what seems to be of genuine display of regret from an upcoming celebrity and you were like nah we need to fill the dumbass quota in this thread
Fully understandable. His career will go on, but it'll take a hit with things like this and hopefully he'll learn.
I mean I did give some background to it and your welcome to address any of that if you want. But on an unrelated note I find it hard to buy an apology when it comes from a place of personal damage in general.
"Type of people"? haha wat?? Just because you had bad experiences doesn't then mean you can justify broadly labelling all people from a different background/class/race/whatever with a derogatory term.
Wow...no wonder the Tories are in fashion.
It's not a class or race is the thing I dont get. Background I can kind of understand more but coming from even less is where it confuses me and class comes to the same conclusion. All I can say is I dont personally understand classism if it's more about behavior than it is financial situation, but I intend to look into it.
Hey folks can we discuss his problematic behaviour without "rap is crap" hot takes and racist/classist dogwhistles?
This community is so fucking disappointing sometimes.
This community is so fucking disappointing sometimes.
This "community" is just people at varying degrees of learning and understanding. Not sure why you're disappointed in the entire community when a single person says something like this.
This is quite literally the same line of thinking every person who thinks they aren't discriminating against a group of people goes with.
No one here is obligated to explain to you why your comments are classist and discriminatory. If you want to know why, use google and find out.
I think the apology is fine, and he was just sadly being a drunken fool. Just something to forget, much like when Patrick Stewart had that awful encounter with James Corden.
I'm more annoyed with Slowthai for setting off a 10 minute firework display half a mile from my house at 3.20am on a sunday tbh.
I'm more annoyed with Slowthai for setting off a 10 minute firework display half a mile from my house at 3.20am on a sunday tbh.
I already said that's what I was doing, and have been. Now I wont claim to understand it perfectly in this context, but from what I've been reading it seems it has transcended wealth, particularly in the current uni generation, which is likely where the confusion comes from as I'd never really associated it with wealth in the first place. However the term seems to have been weaponized by the elite regardless. This part is something I wasnt particularly aware of given our generation pretty much just embraced the terms.
This is probably why I was confused as to the term being so offensive too as it's always just been a metric of 'do you like metal or dnb' when the terms used to be slung around between our generation and class seemed to be more about wealth. For example neither of these groups were accepted by the 'posh kids' groups so I'd always been under the impression that they were the example of class as a divide and that the division beyond that was not an issue of class.
Any apology that has no conditionals like "I'm sorry if you were offended" is a good apology, especially those where the guilty party recognizes their wrongdoing and doesn't try to minimize them. The world would be a better place if more people reacted like this when called out on their wrong behavior.
Well, no, it is something to remember and to learn from and be better about on the future. But the apology does seem genuine, as does the dude himself and he's already suffered some consequences from his actions. I'm inclined to believe he'll work on improving from this.
All good. Didn't mean to come across so harsh either tbh. But for what it's worth, your place in society, your wealth, your own class, has no relevance whatsoever to whether something you say is classist. Just like some women can be sexist against their own gender, just like some minorities can be self hating. It doesn't matter. If you say something sterotypical or generalised or disparaging about a certain class of people, it's classist, even if you belong to that class yourself.
Yeah I think that was one of the bits I was a little lost on. Well, in combination with a lack of awareness with it growing beyond a jab at each other we used as teens that at the time seemed more about your music scene and clothes. It's kinda odd that one passed me by tbh, we were certainly aware of racism and homophobia at the time along with connotations of the offending terms but I guess we never really stopped to think if there was anything deeper to this one. Yet it would be the only one of the three I'd actually be subject to which is a strange kind of irony I guess.
It's just about recognising that everyone is individual and that no matter how somebody may appear on the surface, you don't truly know them and certainly not just by going off what you know about people you consider to be in the same "group" as them.
I grew up as somebody that listened to rap and rock equally and my clothing style and manner of speaking were always all over the shop too. As a result I've been called "chav" and "mosher" in disparaging ways in equal amounts lol. In high school I always also used to get told "you're not black" and "why do you wish you were black" and stuff like that, literally just for enjoying rap songs - nothing else. How painfully ignorant. So whenever I see somebody generalise stuff like that it just gets my back up.
It's about realising that just because somebody may speak, act, and talk like what you consider a "chav", doesn't mean they are what you consider that group to be on any level. There is a full spectrum of personality, education, wealth, talent, priorities and morals within groups of people that could be classed that way. Just like every other group, race, gender or class on earth.
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Yeah I totally get what you're saying and wouldnt disagree with it in the slightest. Trying to figure any other underlying reasoning I can only really assume that I've seen the other side of our generations upbringing as an instigator because I'm less likely to receive the same from someone considered within our group at the time, and that were I not I'd have seen the same from what I'd considered our group.
Funny you say about the rap and rock thing though, I do remember a couple times being called out for wearing a wu tang t shirt when I'm supposed to be a metal head at the time. Weird to think that its grown into what it has when terms like mods and rockers from a few generations before never really evolved beyond that, but I wont be using the term again since it's more harmful than I'd realised and I sure dont want to be batting for the upper class shitting on the lower class, its already the UK's favourite pastime as it is and I dont want to contribute to that.
Well, this exposed me to his music at least. Which isn't bad. I recognize one of those as an occasional earworm bright spot from sleepless jetlagged misery in British hotels on business trips. Although some of that might be clever production on what sounds like deliberately off beat flow.
Anyway, I know everyone has been waiting for me to drop my verdict on SlowThai's future:
It's embarasing and destructive, and he may not recover fully - but he apologized - it was pathetic and lecherous and gross - but not necessarily an "oops, look what booze revealed about his inner being" like Mel Gibson. All of his gross and clumsy mysoginy seemed to be coming from a place of intellectually bereft defense, untested Chav reflexes and he was being manhandled with ease by a professional Heckler Smasher, like Neo realizing he's the One and distractedly blocks Agent Smith while thinking about something more important.
So I think he could be forgiven if he takes on a little extra responsibility in his career and lyrics and example-setting. TBH he doesn't seem that smart from the video, despite how hammered he is, but that's probably not a fair way to judge his capacity for doing better.
I say Not Canceled, Pending Future Recognizance. Brits will know whether that's likely or not. But he may at least have learned to lay off the whatever while at or near work.
Anyway, I know everyone has been waiting for me to drop my verdict on SlowThai's future:
It's embarasing and destructive, and he may not recover fully - but he apologized - it was pathetic and lecherous and gross - but not necessarily an "oops, look what booze revealed about his inner being" like Mel Gibson. All of his gross and clumsy mysoginy seemed to be coming from a place of intellectually bereft defense, untested Chav reflexes and he was being manhandled with ease by a professional Heckler Smasher, like Neo realizing he's the One and distractedly blocks Agent Smith while thinking about something more important.
So I think he could be forgiven if he takes on a little extra responsibility in his career and lyrics and example-setting. TBH he doesn't seem that smart from the video, despite how hammered he is, but that's probably not a fair way to judge his capacity for doing better.
I say Not Canceled, Pending Future Recognizance. Brits will know whether that's likely or not. But he may at least have learned to lay off the whatever while at or near work.