Discussion in 'Video Games' started by Primethius, Nov 2, 2018.
Shantae is not more recognizable or popular than Simon or Richter, that's just patently false.
The only naivete here is assuming that Nintendo "passed up" on black or brown characters.
Athletic =/= Does physical activity
Twintelle is simultaneously a fashion model with her own fragrance AND a toned gym rat who we've actually been shown doing anaerobic exercise instead of just cardio-vascular or stretching workouts.
So maybe think your posts through before you come at someone, yeah?
but thanks for mansplaining femininity to me.
any Non-White and darker-than-light-pink characters is disingenuous and impossible to argue for. Because either they meant race, in which case Ryu is Japanese and not White, so they are wrong, or they meant skin tone in which case Little Mac is brownish, so they are wrong.
Forget it, not worth it. If you try to be moderate people will label you Nazi or SJW depending of what you say.
As for your second point? You're not wrong,
but whatever, have a nice day
I will never not campaign for Doc Louis, Punch-Out has more games than Kid Icarus after all.
Is there a list that breaks down how many human characters and how man non-human characters there are?
Then we can look at the human characters and see from that list. From the characters I know, Ganondorf is the only brown skinned character. Yes he is not technically human, he is Hylian, but he is closest to perhaps middle Easter. Are there any Gerudo in Smash Bros? They are also brown skinned so that might count.
I dont know the human character number count and of that the percentage of dark skinned characters, but they are clearly much in the minority.
Mario, Luigi, Wario, Waluigi are all Italian.
What about Peach? What about Toad? Are their dark skinned toads?
Actually I think it would be cool if there were Toad characters based off of different types of mushrooms.
Italians are definitely white, what the fuck lmao.
So Smash has been around for nearly 20 years.
Ganondorf was introduced in melee 2001 and has been the only visibly non fair skinned human for 17-18 years.
And in 2018 we definitely need more visible PoCs.
Smash needs more diverse demographics in playable characters -- skin tones, hair types, etc.. I dont see this as a debate on racial or ethnicity inclusion. To me Mario is not Italian, and Pit is not Greek. They are fantasy characters from fantasy worlds with white skin is all.
It's a bit hard to break down, but of all the "human "characters" we have 42.
Of those, 3 of them aren't real characters and are more just avatars (Wii Fit Trainer, Inkling, Villager) and and the latter have dark skinned and opposite gendered variants, so I'll just remove them, so we have 39.
Of the remaining, Mario, Dr. Mario, Luigi, and IIRC Little Mac are Italian.
Link, Zelda and Peach are presumably European given the Peter Pan influences on the original Zelda (could be Japanese though)
Pokemon Trainer is probably Japanese considering he's based on Red who's from Kanto which was literally modeled after a region in Japan
Ryu is Japanese, Ken is American
Ganondorf seems based on some desert culture so based on the Middle Eastern or Northern African?
Given Dracula's Eastern European roots, I think we can assume Simon and Richter are also from that region
Palutena, Pitt and Dark Pitt I guess are Greek?
As for the others, who knows
I mean, how do you even describe the "race" of someone like Lyn from Fire Emblem? She is the child of a man from European-style nobility, at least in social customs, and her mother was from a tribe based heavily on Mongolian steppe nomads, but the art style of the game tends to obscure any differences there may be between those ethnic groups. Even her, a character used to tell a story about overcoming racism, is really hard to label using real world ethnicities.
It's why it is more practical to talk about things like skin tone and cultural trappings.
I am all for inclusivity, but some people just for look them in the wrong places. I am a minority and not once have I ever wondered about diversity in Super Smash Brothers. Do people actually relate to characters from that franchise? It is mostly made up of anthropomorphic characters, and other imaginary characters, including humans. Not once have I ever wondered why Nintendo wasn't including people from my race/skin tone.
I honestly read the thread title and went "what?"
Now, if you are talking about a franchise like GTA or Uncharted, TLOU, etc... and those games didn't have any black or minority characters in them then this would be a great discussion, but I just don't get the criticism here. Am I missing something?
I'd like to see it more too, but the old guard franchises of the 80s and 90s don't have much to work with, and newer franchises are starting to improve with various skin tone options but rarely have them as the default MC (with Splatoon 2 being an exception to that rule).
That being said, Elma, Octoling, Twintelle and Urbosa are all characters I see potential in making it into the game sooner or later and would add a refreshing bit of color to the roster. I do think Nintendo has a bit more onus on them than the rest of the industry to diversify their roster, but I don't necessarily mind that. They can do it.
In the case of SSB, it's just a reflection of the lack of black/brown characters in gaming, especially in Japan.
You know what would be really cool but will never happen? Prince of Persia! Even though he can look really white depending on the game, lol.
There is straight up not a single person that is black or even hispanic/latino playable in the game. Sure, it's cool to have a black Villager or Inkling skin option I guess... but that's not their default.
Many of these characters that are ambiguous in their background are clearly made up of prominent Eurocentric traits or features, and this is fairly common in Japanese anime or media. Outside of that fact, Smash is extremely diverse, but it magnifies this issue of racial/ethnic diversity in gaming as a whole.
Im not sure why but I never realized Twintelle was Black.
You can sugar coat it I guess, but at the end of the day he is “part Asian” in writing only. His character is literally inspired by and modeled after white movie stars.
I'm still of the camp that says it would be really cool for Elma to get in the game as DLC, at least as a start.
But yea, gaming in general has pretty few dark skinned lead characters.
I absolutely know diversity doesn't start or end at skin pigmentation, but this just further pushes the point I am trying to make. Western games are clearly struggling on this front, but there is proof that supports the idea that diversity isn't just exclusively a problem here.
Though its also a bit of those Japanese games that like to cram a little nugget in there sometimes.
I remember something in Resident Evil saying Jill Valentine is part Japanese.
(I don't remember where though, I don't think it was a novel)
This is a problem with the lack of iconic black/brown leads or antagonists in gaming as a whole. The Smash roster is a celebration of the main characters from popular Nintendo and/or third-party series, and I'd say that the only character that definitely deserves a roster spot is already in the game (Ganondorf). Elma could be a good addition as well (though X is the least popular Xenoblade game so far), Twintelle and the Octoling Girl are too new.
Representation is important to me as a biracial dude, but I have very little interest in shoehorning the likes of Doc Louis or Mike Fucking Tyson into Smash just to have more black people on the roster. What we need are more black/brown leads in Nintendo series, and I think we've seen a shift in that direction in the past few years with Elma, Marina, Twintelle, etc... Claude in FE: Three Houses is one of the main protagonists, and he definitely ain't white.
The OP is not *technically* correct as Ganondorf is middle-eastern, or at least intended to be. There are also some dark-skinned Inkling skins and some skins here and there for other characters (though I believe those are meant to be tanned and not there to represent any race)
Have we already gone over what characters Nintendo could use? At the end of the day, they don't have many black/middle-eastern/etc characters to use, or at least none I can think of off the top of my head.
Maybe Nintendo will start adding more main characters that aren't white/Japanese in the future, but at least for this Smash there really isn't anyone except Ganondorf.
Not to mention the idea that Smash characters should be chosen based on their race is stupid as hell. The idea that they would pick Twintelle or Shantae over an iconic videogame character like Simon, just because Simon is white? Come on now.
Also Ken was obviously chosen because a) he's probably the second most iconic SF character after Ryu (though this is debateable, Chun-Li is probably tied for this) and b) he's an Echo, and therefore his development effort is significantly reduced.