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Durden

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
12,511
Arena matches with friends have been so far a pretty surprisingly great experience. Had pretty much lagless matches for hours. I've also gotten pretty lucky with random matches too. My rules have primarily been met (1v1 no items omega), and lag has been very minimal. So things are cool on my end. But I can understand where people are coming from for sure from the lack of options, and I have gotten into some matches, especially FFAs, that are laggy as all hell.
 
Oct 25, 2017
9,053
Online is the most played mode in every single non-Switch multiplayer game. You don't think it wouldn't be the most played mode if it was halfway decent? Smash 4 isn't a good example - its online was fucking awful too. Smash with solid matchmaking options, good networking and a nice ranked mode would be outrageously popular.

Smash has a decades long history of being a casual party game. Chucking items at people online doesn't have the same frenzied vibe that the game has in local mode. 1:1 no items would get played a TON online, but that group has always been a minority of the playerbase.

Also, do you have sources for that statement? Street Fighter V and DBFZ have more total playtime on online versus than local versus?
 
Oct 28, 2017
6,119
Smash has a decades long history of being a casual party game. Chucking items at people online doesn't have the same frenzied vibe that the game has in local mode. 1:1 no items would get played a TON online, but that group has always been a minority of the playerbase.

Also, do you have sources for that statement? Street Fighter V and DBFZ have more total playtime on online versus than local versus?

No I don't, and I'll admit to being a bit hyperbolic. A hardcore fighting game might have more local time. But anything played primarily by casual players, and that's definitely Smash, would undoubtedly be more popular online. You're right about the decades long history of being a casual party game - that's exactly why it would be so popular. Lots of adults who don't have friends over to play video games anymore would play. College students would play to get players 3 and 4. Kids would play for the same reason.

Local play might be more fun, but online is far more accessible and it's not a replacement, it's a supplement.
 

IDontBeatGames

ThreadMarksman
Member
Oct 29, 2017
16,544
New York
  1. We, as friends, should be able to make a lobby together and queue up for 2v2 Online Matches. That is something that should be normal and should be allowed for online. I don't understand why we can't do this. I'd rather do a 2v2 with my friend online than a stranger. Sorry, Nintendo.
  2. The Preferred Rules should be the only things we get queued up into. There is NO reason we need to get randomly put into 4-player FFA if we're preferring 1v1. I understand if we get 1v1 but with different settings, but it should completely cancel out every other mode.
  3. The lag is absolutely ridiculous. I already bought the LAN adapter for the best connection because I want the best connection quality, but even with that, it feels like it wouldn't change a thing. And this is something a large portion of people won't buy if they're not a hardcore gamer who watches the Directs, browses forums etc.
  4. Why. Can't. We. Change. Settings. In. The. Battle. Arena??? I shouldn't have to make a new lobby if I wanna make a minor change such as going from 3 Person FFA to 4 Person FFA or 7 minutes to 8 minutes.
 
Oct 25, 2017
9,053
I've had better luck since doing 3-stock, 5 minutes, No Hazards. For some reason 7 minutes clusters me closer to FFA players, which kind of sort of makes sense, but is still awful.

No I don't, and I'll admit to being a bit hyperbolic. A hardcore fighting game might have more local time. But anything played primarily by casual players, and that's definitely Smash, would undoubtedly be more popular online. You're right about the decades long history of being a casual party game - that's exactly why it would be so popular. Lots of adults who don't have friends over to play video games anymore would play. College students would play to get players 3 and 4. Kids would play for the same reason.

Local play might be more fun, but online is far more accessible and it's not a replacement, it's a supplement.

But if all casual players want to do is to hop into a shitshow 4-player items match, that's pretty much what the current online actually does well. It's the competitive options and getting precise settings and decent tournament practice that totally sucks.

How often are FFA players getting pulled into 1:1 no items?
 

Deleted member 4093

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,671
I'll tell yall right now if we really want this to change we have to get out this forum and make something on Twitter or something. We just speaking into and endless void.
 

panama chief

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,055
Not being able to team up with my friend(who is home on his console) and go online together is the biggest miss to me. Setting up combos with the homie is a blast.
 

Papercuts

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,029
I've mostly been doing a ton of teams with online friends against randoms. You can create a public lobby where you set the rules you want to play and randoms can join. It's really easy and I've never really had difficulty finding randoms to join since my rooms fill up fast. And luckily the connection has been mostly great for me too; if anyone lags I just boot them and that spot gets filled quickly.

That's a good idea, they should give you the option to deny an upcoming match.

"MATCH FOUND: FFA Items. Confirm/Keep Searching"

This is incorrect.

It's possible in the same way you could do doubles in mario tennis with friends by making a public lobby and having them join it super fast, but it's not nearly as easy as it should be without two people being on the same console. I still would like it to be possible to team up before you search and have it apply GSP to make it a more competitive mode.
 

see5harp

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
4,435
This reminds me: I'm curious why people complain about "net code" when they haven't even seen the actual code, and most wouldn't know what it looked like anyway? Is it just a bit of technical-sounding "jargon" that made its way into internet discourse somehow? Like what specifically do you mean by "poor net code?"

Why would this be, in any way, an important distinction to make? It works well or it doesn't.
 

FUNKNOWN iXi

▲ Legend ▲
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
9,596
It's possible in the same way you could do doubles in mario tennis with friends by making a public lobby and having them join it super fast, but it's not nearly as easy as it should be without two people being on the same console. I still would like it to be possible to team up before you search and have it apply GSP to make it a more competitive mode.
Yeah what you're talking about is going into matchmaking as an online party of 2, which is unfortunately not possible. At least we have the option to play against randoms with online friends though, just communicate with them to join as soon as you make the room so they'll have a spot.
 
Oct 25, 2017
9,053
Well if it's impossible to do that fairly then whatever they do needs to work better. My only point is there's no sense arguing the terminology of why something is bad. Everyone knows that something isn't working well.

I'll contend that the net code is working fairly well, but the matchmaking algorithm is being sadistically tortured by being overconstrained by trying to manage 50-100 different setting combinations while also trying to fit for MMR and connectivity. Remove half the options and totally separate the 1:1 from FFA, then we can start making statements about the underlying netcode.

About 75% of my 1:1 matches haven't had notable lag.
 

Big G

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,605
Yesterday was an absolute mess online. Obscene amounts of lag (at times, the game would freeze for 5-10 seconds) and I got dropped from a match once. Not being able to spectate in the Arena while a match is in progress is lame. Nothing more fun than just sitting around doing nothing.

It was better today, though. I set up my matchmaking to be 1v1 stock with no items and no stage hazards, and aside from one 4-player FFA with no items/hazards, I got matched up appropriately. Mostly competitive matches, too. A little bit of laggyness but I'd say it was "acceptable".

Played over local wireless with a co-worker during lunch and I was surprised at how well that worked. Going to see what the range on that is tomorrow (he hasn't signed up for the Nintendo online service yet).

One problem I keep running into is every time I boot up the game and go into "Quick Play" I get rejected because of "network is busy or the connection is unstable". I can still do Arena matches but Quick Play always fails. But then if I go into Local Wireless, exit out, and then go back into Quick Play it lets me in and works without a hitch. I don't know.

I've had better luck since doing 3-stock, 5 minutes, No Hazards. For some reason 7 minutes clusters me closer to FFA players, which kind of sort of makes sense, but is still awful.
About 75% of my 1:1 matches haven't had notable lag.
Those are the MM settings I've been using today and my experience has been similar. Even the one FFA match I had mixed in (w/ no items and hazards) had fairly minimal lag.
 
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see5harp

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
4,435
I'll contend that the net code is working fairly well, but the matchmaking algorithm is being sadistically tortured by being overconstrained by trying to manage 50-100 different setting combinations while also trying to fit for MMR and connectivity. Remove half the options and totally separate the 1:1 from FFA, then we can start making statements about the underlying netcode.

About 75% of my 1:1 matches haven't had notable lag.

Can you party up with friends and play matches against other teams of 3 easily and well? If that's the case then I guess there's nothing to complain about. I guess I'll see in a few days when I get my gamefly copy.
 

enkaisu

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,414
Pittsburgh
I can't believe I'm not able fight CPUs online with a friend, or do squad strike online with a friend. I'm so tired of missing out playing awesome game modes with friends because none of my irl friends give a shit about Smash and the ones that do live further away and make getting together to game a rare occurrence.
 

Mit-

Member
Oct 26, 2017
519
Preferred rules isn't the worst idea, but it absolutely needs 1v1 and 4 player playlists. No one who wants to play 1v1 wants to play FFA/teams. No one who wants to play FFA/teams wants to play 1v1. Therefore almost everyone will be upset at some point during their online play sessions. Poor design choice.

And yeah not allowing more modes of play with friends in private lobbies is pretty lame as well.
 

KratosEnergyDrink

Using an alt account to circumvent a ban
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,523
If you want a match with special rules it will take more time to find an opponent than a standard match. That is obvious.

Nonetheless should be better in a few days, when more people play online.
 

1upmuffin

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
940
As a 1v1 player I really don't like getting put into 4 player matches, and I super don't like being put in timed battles.
 

Rygar 8Bit

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,882
Site-15
Not being able to team up with my friend(who is home on his console) and go online together is the biggest miss to me. Setting up combos with the homie is a blast.

They need to patch this in badly. Even the ability to just do quickplay with a friend would be big. No one joins these damn arenas so we sit here waiting not doing anything for like 15-20 minutes before someone joins. Get with the times Nintendo do online correctly.
 

Xtortion

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,650
United States
That awkward moment when you search for 1v1 stock no items on Battlefield and it's puts you into a 1v1 time battle with items on Big Blue
 

Pancho

Avenger
Nov 7, 2017
1,976
Gave online a go. Couple of matches ran well
Then suddenly a bunch of matches that were just a laggy shitshow.
Sigh...I'll just let this month's subscription end and won't resub to the nintendo online. I know it's cheap but it doesn't fee right to give them money with how terrible the online is.
 
Oct 29, 2017
5,354
It could be that people looking for 1v1s are matched up way faster than those looking for larger games so those end up getting filled more often?

For each 4 player FFA online match I wonder how many of those players were looking for a 1v1 instead at any given time lol
 

Deleted member 4093

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,671
That awkward moment when you search for 1v1 stock no items on Battlefield and it's puts you into a 1v1 time battle with items on Big Blue
I make people pay big time when I get into a match like that lol I abuse the hell out of items and throw them out the edge of the screen as soon as I push them over there. Some fool damn near beat me but he put the smash ball

Played someone else who apparently liked the side scrolling mario stages. Bait him toward the end of the stage, grab and wait for the screen to move over and threw him out at 10% twice lol
 

Luminish

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,508
Denver
I make people pay big time when I get into a match like that lol I abuse the hell out of items and throw them out the edge of the screen as soon as I push them over there. Some fool damn near beat me but he put the smash ball

Played someone else who apparently liked the side scrolling mario stages. Bait him toward the end of the stage, grab and wait for the screen to move over and threw him out at 10% twice lol
I like queueing 1v1 with all items and stages, but can't fault no item players for abusing it.

But people who queue up with those setting and then abuse it like that are scum.
 

Ehoavash

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 28, 2017
7,238
Played today and every match I got my preferred 1 vs 1 today :)

Still wish I could switch characters though :/
 

BlueManifest

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,330
Online has improved for me a lot in the last few days, haven't seen much lag, getting matched with my preferences more often, and the arena mode is fun too
 

Griffith

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,585
I think Nintendo fans should group together, make a petition for Nintendo make their online gaming service free until they are able to provide a decent online experience.
Smash Ultimate is just the most recent example of many others.
 

RomanceDawn

Teacher of Superheroines
Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,206
Los Angeles
I don't play quick match right now. Arena battles are where it's at. I had some incredibly epic competitive matches and some crazy item matches too. Played a Pichu for about half an hour and this person was good! My Ridley was almost a match but my DK and Bowser held their own very well.

Arena Battle and limit it to 2 people per lobby if you want that consistent competitive experience!
 
Oct 25, 2017
9,053
My experiences last night were really good.

In about 6 hours of online matches, about 75% of my games have been 1:1 with great connections. The rest have been either FFA or 1:1 with garbage lag, or both!

Matchmaking/queues need the most work, IMO, followed by Lobby Features, followed by better Friends List interaction? It is hard to see how connection quality gets prioritized during that stupidly huge options list during the matchmaking algorithm.
 

Scar

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,675
Title Town
Yeah...the spectating issue is really dumb. Why can't a person watch after the match has started?

That's crazy awful.
 

SaintBowWow

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,085
They need to patch this in badly. Even the ability to just do quickplay with a friend would be big. No one joins these damn arenas so we sit here waiting not doing anything for like 15-20 minutes before someone joins. Get with the times Nintendo do online correctly.

Nintendo never added the ability to queue up with a friend in Splatoon 2, a TEAM BASED SHOOTER! I have no hope that the majority of the baffling design choices in Smash online will ever be changed.
 

Nacho

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,115
NYC
It's pretty frustrating. Was able to do an arena last night with some friends who live like maybe a mile away. Felt... Ok... Some lag but certainly. Playable. However we had to coordinate on discord and trash talk on text on discord, cuz no integrated voice makes things weird.