So China, what can be done?

[cupcakeunicorn]

The global economy is too interconnected for economic sanctions to do very much without harming other developed countries just as much, if not more, than they would hurt the PRC. Boycotts may work in a limited way to put pressure on western companies to not self-censor, but that depends on western populations actually caring about this as an issue. But big corporations are almost never going to not try to invest in mainland China; the market is far too large.

Looking at population growth and birthrates, in the long term China is arguably even more demographically fucked than the west, so wait long enough and they'll eventually stagnate and peak in power. A Chinese-dominated world is not an inevitable future, nor would it be a permanent one.

 

[mAcOdIn]

Looking at population growth and birthrates, in the long term China is arguably even more demographically fucked than the west, so wait long enough and they'll eventually stagnate and peak in power. A Chinese-dominated world is not an inevitable future, nor would it be a permanent one.

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What does it matter if they peak later if we're already capitulating our values to them now? Their market will always be huge, they could stagnate forever and it'd still be a market people wouldn't want to ignore. The world needs to either stand up to them together economically and take the hit or this is the new reality.

 

[Sanka]

Realize that the root cause of this problem is capitalism and create class conscious within the working class. Companies are not your friends.

 

[Catshade]

Dismantle the CCP, but western powers have bad track records when it comes to dismantling authoritarian regimes and replacing it with (supposedly) better ones.

 

[fanboi]

Isolate them.

Companies need incetives to move production to other countries or even home.
Put trade restrictions on them.
Restrict chinese involvment in countries (own companies, marketing for the chinese goverment and so on).
Continued pressue on their behavior.

Would take decades, but bar a military invasion...

 

[Dark_Castle]

CCP got to go.

 

[Trey]

Dismantle the CCP, but western powers have bad track records when it comes to dismantling authoritarian regimes and replacing it with (supposedly) better ones.

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Because that requires a lot of good, old fashioned war.

 

[Khanimus]

Nothing that anyone with actionable power will do. Economic interests will always take precedent.

 

[Neo C.]

Automation, we really need to push automation far more. Adidas for example brought some of the production back to Germany thanks to a new highly automated factory. So far, it's just a small percentage though. We need to do this on a much larger scale. It also has a nice side-effect of making your own country more productive.

More and better trade agreements with other countries also need to be pushed more. Ironically thanks to Trump, my country has finally got a new trade agreement with Japan for example. If you want less dependency, this is the way to go.

 

[Kill3r7]

You can try to buy less stuff from China but one might find out that boycotting China might be harder than one thinks.

 

[Ichthyosaurus]

Nothing that anyone with actionable power will do. Economic interests will always take precedent.

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It's not just economic interests, but logistical ones.

 

[JoJokomoko]

People who advocate for invasion or war really need to get their reality check. The war would destroy the entire world economy, not to mention the risk of nuclear armageddon.

Back on topic, I believe the change can only come from Chinese citizens themselves but I'm completely hopeless on how that would happen with a younger Chinese generation.

Speaking from my experience, I've met one of my closet group of friends who were Chinese during my time studying aboard in New Zealand. They were good people, helping me during my times of need. But one thing that I've been noticing is that almost every single one of my Chinese friend get very heated when it comes to the discussion between China sovereignty over Hong Kong and Taiwan.
They even go so far to protest on the university board when one of the world maps in our classes listed Hong Kong and Taiwan as an independent nation. Even now, when we're talking about the recent event in Hong Kong, they all believe that it was the west trying to interfere and stir up the peace. I don't know if they truly love their government or fear them. But due to how they getting so riled up and angry at the western world every time this issue is brought up in our discussion, I fear it's the former.

It's also doesn't help with the overwhelming majority of Chinese netizen hurling insult and hateful words towards an event like 9/11 on social media after the NBA's tweet.

 

[Deleted member 984]

Absolutely nothing. This isn't some unexpected development either, the rise of China has been predicted for centuries and different governments have been interfering for longer.

 

[Reversed]

I believe a change of the chinese status quo would take decades past a human lifetime :( But as long as people keep pointing out the stinkers without compromising jobs (pity on those that are held mouth shut by, for instance, Tencent) or any essential parts of our lifestyle (not that we can't boycott anything chinese made), we can only hope that their overly authoritarian 'tude starts waning and fading away.

The shit the uighurs have to deal with just leave me with no words, let alone country leaders staying silent on the HK protests.

 

[Sevacro]

They don't control us through oppression but through our entertainment/pleasures as Huxley predicted.

 

[Deleted member 10551]

What can be done is dependent on what price we're willing to pay as a society to do it.

War isn't going to happen. If we were willing to hurt our economy, we could put a total trade embargo on China, and put Iranian style sanctions on China. We won't do this though- it would hurt us a lot too, though it would cripple China.

 

[shnurgleton]

This is sort of the more intelligent argument for the tariffs. Decouple the US economy from China so we can actually counter them. But that has shown to be a task too difficult for this shitministration and has been very damaging to our domestic manufacturing sector. And also this is why China is hard at work building an emerging market for Chinese goods in Africa. There is very little the United States can do until we have shown our economy doesn't need China, or until there is some decisive end to the CCP

 

[Deleted member 135]

Incentivize companies to move supply lines out of China eventually mandating it, ban tech companies from acquiescing to CCP demands, redo the TPP correctly, ban Chinese investment in Western companies/real estate/etc, end all trade with China except that which goes through Hong Kong and Macau, arm and train resistance movements in Hong Kong and the mainland surreptitiously, recognize Taiwan as an independent nation.

 

[VX1]

And a reminder:

 

[Box]

And a reminder:

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Wow.

 

[Deleted member 7051]

So Trump exposed America's weakness and now the vultures are circling the prey. Russia and China were never this bold before.

 

[Mivey]

So Trump exposed America's weakness and now the vultures are circling the prey. Russia and China were never this bold before.

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It's less about them being bold, China was always bullish about this stuff. It's that it's something a larger audience suddenly starts to care about. And even then, it's a gamer being banned that triggered the widespread outrage, not, you know, Muslims being imprisoned and pregnant women cut open alive.

 

[Greigor the FellHand]

Move mfg back to your home country. Elevate the cost of the product a small amount

 

[Brown Intruder]

Change needs to come from within. Without a Chinese Gorbachev, it's gonna be difficult.

Unless the population rises up and is supported by the army.

 

[shnurgleton]

Change needs to come from within. Without a Chinese Gorbachev, it's gonna be difficult.

Unless the population rises up and is supported by the army.

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Imagine, the people's liberation army, liberating the people...

 

[TheXbox]

Cut them off. If it triggers a recession, or a depression, so be it. We cannot do business with a genocidal regime.

 

[krazen]

Its happening.
While Trump's taking a bull in China shop approach (pun unintended), you already see other asian countries taking up some of China's manufacturing because big business is worried at the trade war and wants less politically volatile places to manufacture. Huewei was a big stand and it crippled them.

That said, what's fascinating is the US is by their now inherently racist way of dealing with developing countries is ceeding power to China in different ways. Where we saw 'shithole countries', China sees opportunity and is investing heavily in Africa etc giving them resources and markets we can be locked out of. Accusations of currency manipulation are moot when its sent overseas and effectively laundered into real businesses, real estate and infrastructure they own.

There's also the longer term game of where if we don't want to deal with a new superpower neither does Russia, and as China gets more bold I expect some growing pains in the relationship there since they are going after the same things. They want a piece of Africa, they might see their foothold in the Middle East threatened, etc

 

[Brown Intruder]

Imagine, the people's liberation army, liberating the people...

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Indeed

 

[MonoStable]

Could have signed the TPP and started to reduce our dependency on Chinese manufacturing.

 

[Shining Star]

Realize that the root cause of this problem is capitalism and create class conscious within the working class. Companies are not your friends.

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Aren't they in the communist part of the world (the East somewhere?)

 

[electricblue]

Lots we can sanction CCP leaders
We can threaten to expel China from WTO
We can encourage divestment from Chinese firms
We can work with our allies to do the above in their countries

The US has all the cards in this struggle we just need a leader who isn't shooting us in the foot every day

 

[wandering]

Aren't they in the communist part of the world (the East somewhere?)

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The East somewhere? Are you unsure where China is located?

The Communist Bloc collapsed three decades ago, and China is more accurately seen as state capitalist than communist.

 

[Sanka]

Aren't they in the communist part of the world (the East somewhere?)

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The eastern bloc doesn't exist anymore. And no, they aren't socialist or communist. They just like to act as if they are.

 

[Don Fluffles]

There's no single solution, but here are some things you can do to the extent possible:

Don't buy products or services from China or Chinese companies, particularly if they have ties to the Chinese government.
Don't support companies that betray human rights and freedom of expression to appease the authoritarian regime of China.
Write to your representatives in government in your country. Ask them to take similar action at a national or local government level.
Tell people what's going on.
Speak.

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The first two are nigh impossible when they have their hands in so much of our everyday products. This is why it's important for government to do the big things we can't alone.

 

[shnurgleton]

Aren't they in the communist part of the world (the East somewhere?)

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism_with_Chinese_characteristics?wprov=sfla1

Spoiler: What this means

state capitalism

 

[raygcon]

Unless China collapse by itself, it's kind of a bit too late to try flexing muscle with them. Don't get me wrong, I think China still has a long way to go to achieving the real world super power status the same way as US. But they are far too big, too rich, too influential for any country who want to put their hand into this situation. And to be fair, most of these issues are internal. So I'm not sure why would any foreign country want to get involve. There is no benefit there even for the US.

Imagine some countries want to get involve with US shooting or racism problem? Same thing.

Any super power will abuse their power one way or another. Same thing as how US direct all their company to ban Huawei. That's even more scary because it a direct order to destroy a foreign company who start to be challenge competitor. That's far more money involve than just some Chinese citizen ban some American brands.

 

[Kidgalactus]

Regime change.

 

[Shining Star]

The East somewhere? Are you unsure where China is located?

The Communist Bloc collapsed three decades ago, and China is more accurately seen as state capitalist than communist.

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Oh my mistake, I thought it was communism but I see they are not.

 

[Jmdajr]

We need other countries to make our shit. I feel way too high a percentage comes from China alone.

Granted this can't happen in a day.

 

[Fulminator]

Regime change.

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this or economic shutdown of China

neither are likely to happen.

 

[Infinity Times Two]

What would be the possibility of an American president to go to Hong Kong and speak in front of the crowds there and voice their support?

I know obviously Trump wouldn't do this, but how would you go about doing it? Since it's technically part of China, would the White House need to ask the CCP for allowance to go there?

 

[Soph]

I bought some Hong Kong t-shirts. Let's see how my employer reacts to some support of democracy.

 

[hombremalo]

Stop consuming

 

[mAcOdIn]

What would be the possibility of an American president to go to Hong Kong and speak in front of the crowds there and voice their support?

I know obviously Trump wouldn't do this, but how would you go about doing it? Since it's technically part of China, would the White House need to ask the CCP for allowance to go there?

Click to shrink...

Zero chance.

As much as I agree with the cause it'd be like Putin coming to Texas and throwing his support for secession from the United States. Of course it wouldn't be allowed, it shouldn't and no good could come of it.

 

[Deleted member 3010]

In the political sphere, they have to be severely sanctioned by most countries for their inhumane treatments of prisoners and disrespect toward the HK treaty.

As for us little people, the best we can do is buy as less Chinese products as possible (best of luck in this endeavor) and call out and boycott companies who show support for this authoritarian regime.

Also shower their Twitter with Winnie the Pooh/Xi pics.

 

[wandering]

What would be the possibility of an American president to go to Hong Kong and speak in front of the crowds there and voice their support?

I know obviously Trump wouldn't do this, but how would you go about doing it? Since it's technically part of China, would the White House need to ask the CCP for allowance to go there?

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Even less likely than a president visiting Taiwan.

 

[Maxximo]

Stop consuming

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How unamerican!

 

[Hollywood Duo]

Nothing

 

[LegendofJoe]

The only thing i could see working would be for all companies to pull manufacturing out of china, then the rest of the world would need to place embargoes on china basically treat them how we treat north korea. It would have to be a slow process, I don't think it would be feasible for all companies to get out quickly. Only thing is all of the big corporations have to want to do this first, I don't think they would let it happen

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Everything you described here was something that the Trans-Pacific partnership was going to implement. But thanks to moronic populists like Trump and Bernie we have tariffs and a brewing cold war instead.

 

[AcademicSaucer]

sanctions