Well if popularity is all it takes then just look at their sales.
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So, how do you think Sony will tackle potential force of Nintendo with MS?
- Thread starter Dust
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You are making too much of an effort guy. Ok, Sony doomed. MS has forza and wins. Dont understand why Sony sold 90 millions of PS4s.
It's pretty easy for Sony to match what Microsoft is rumoured to be doing with Nintendo...if they feel the need.
If Nintendo are open to game pass, I'm sure they'd be open to Playstation Now if they get a cut. Likewise, it would be pretty easy to allow full crossplay with other consoles.. if Sony starts to feel that lack of it is harming them.
If Nintendo are open to game pass, I'm sure they'd be open to Playstation Now if they get a cut. Likewise, it would be pretty easy to allow full crossplay with other consoles.. if Sony starts to feel that lack of it is harming them.
By doubling down on AAA single-player exclusives, offering a modestly priced console with good specs, and expanding their network services.
Is Sony even able to roll out PSNow on Switch on a technical level?
And considering their stance on crossplay right now, what makes you think they're in any way interested in providing their service on Nintendo's platform?
as for Nintendo being open to PSNow? Why would they prop up their biggest competitor in their home market anyway?
XCloud will supposedly have something like 2500+. Every digital game on X1 will be a part of the platform.
As it should, right? I'm pretty sure there are more PS4s out there in the United States.
This doesn't mean that FH4 isn't an important IP at generally the same level as Sony IPs are. If Sony bought it today, it would fit right in. with their stable of top-level IPs.
And we should actually use arguments from popularity when talking about whether or not a game will be popular enough to be an important value add to a service. I'm not making an argument from popularity to say that any of those Sony IPs are bad. The issue here is that I gave an opinion about how good FH4 was and then started to talk about FH4's (or MS IPs in general) importance to an online service, so my apologies for any confusion there.
What I'm trying to show is two things:
1. The idea that obviously Sony's first-party is clearly superior to MS's first-party is a specific viewpoint of this site (and other hardcore sites, and the critics), and when I gave my opinion, I knew that people would react with disbelief...because this is a site with a general specific niche viewpoint on video games that doesn't match up with my individual views, necessarily. Which is fine! There's nothing wrong with that. I just think that sometimes, posters fail to recognize these biases (as we all do from time to time).
2. That there are some very popular MS IPs that would absolutely add value at or very near the level of Sony's stronger IPs in general. Yeah, people would be excited for Forza (Horizon or Motorsport) or for Halo. Maybe for Gears, but I think that series has really fallen off, maybe?
Now, if you want to say that MS doesn't have the wealth of top-level IPs that Sony does, I won't argue you there. I just think that of the top ones that MS has, they really aren't that inferior in quality or popularity among general audiences. Again, I think that this discussion is akin to the discussions that people have here about companies like EA. We get these "What does EA even make that people like" posts followed by the necessary "FIFA" and "Madden" responses at a surprising clip. This is just another blind spot that the community generally has (which again, is okay, we all have blind spots as individuals and groups).
No offense, but you don't even understand what you're reading, so you should make more of an effort at reading comprehension, my guy.
I honestly don't know. Sony has good games but if Nintendo and MS really do team up, it's going to be quality vs quantity (plus Nintendo quality).
I'm not sure how long they'll be able to keep things going if the two really do formally join forces.
I'm not sure how long they'll be able to keep things going if the two really do formally join forces.
I'm not saying FH4 isn't popular, it obviously is, but you said that Sony's games don't rate that highly in real life when the truth is they are having some of their best years yet.
Ignoring the records they've set and broken or the praise they get from critics and players alike, realise that the first party of Sony is so highly regarded that it's made Microsoft buy up studios and refocus their efforts because they are painfully aware just how far behind they are in comparison.
The idea that Sony's titles are niche and don't rate highly is not set in real life at all. The fact they are dominating by a very wide margin should make that kinda obvious.
Dude, you have to be trolling at this point.
It's not just this site that considers Sony to have a superior first party line up to Xbox, it's the vast majority of sites all over that agree Sony have been having much, much better years than Xbox.
Even hardcore Xbox fans admit things can and should be a lot better for their system and that's why next gen is so exciting for them because this might be when Xbox turns a corner and starts delivering games that are truly great on a consistent basis.
Even Phil Spencer admitted at the game awards they could do a lot better than they're achieving right now.
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Why wouldn't they be able to roll it out on a technical level? PSNow has already been on multiple devices previously such as the Vita, PSTV and smart TVs. If they wanted to they could do it again and it wouldn't be any different if they add it to the Switch.
I think Sony can only defeat themselves at this point. If the unimaginable happened and somehow you can play Nintendo games on Xbox, which I very much doubt to ever happen, then I would buy an Xbox aswell, but I would still buy a Playstation 5 for the Playstation 5 exclusive games. Sony just need a fair price point, a good quality DualShock controller, great exclusive lineup and backwards compatability. (Personal note : Maybe a console that is not as loud as my PS4).
They have most things in place already and it would take massive amounts of wrong decisions to screw up their coming years like focusing too much on very few big Multiplayer games instead of amazing story-driven Single Player AAA games, not having backwards compatability and thus stopping people from having a big transferable library of games they aquired in recent years since digital sales became big.
But I am all for extra competition and maybe it makes Sony doubling down on their strength and releasing more amazing AAA Single Player games.
They have most things in place already and it would take massive amounts of wrong decisions to screw up their coming years like focusing too much on very few big Multiplayer games instead of amazing story-driven Single Player AAA games, not having backwards compatability and thus stopping people from having a big transferable library of games they aquired in recent years since digital sales became big.
But I am all for extra competition and maybe it makes Sony doubling down on their strength and releasing more amazing AAA Single Player games.
Continue with 1st party high quality
Apparently they're not present in all markets to begin with.
Also unlike MSFT, they're not exactly specialist of cloud software roll out to the extent MSFT is....like an actual significant part of MSFT core business is selling exactly that to other companies... to the point that the current CEO of MSFT is from the cloud part of the company.
It is not a service you can provide by flipping a switch and Sony do not have a headstart in providing the service.
"I think there is a very serious possibility we could have only Microsoft and Nintendo together; and google and amazon being the other two players in videogaming after this gen."
- Let me just say…As long as home consoles are a major part of gaming, then the console maker [Sony] who, as of this second, averages 105 million consoles sold per generation…will be a MAJOR player.
- Let me just say…As long as home consoles are a major part of gaming, then the console maker [Sony] who, as of this second, averages 105 million consoles sold per generation…will be a MAJOR player.
Sega comes out during the PS5 console announcement like:
A rivalry......REBORN!
No deal. If my Beloved Sega comes back, it will be to crush all three of these bastards and retake the crown! No alliances, no teams! Never forget 9-9-99!
Not what I said, actually. Let me quote myself:
So, I didn't argue that Sony's first-party don't rate highly. I said that some of y'all act like they rate so highly that MS can't touch them with any of its own first-party. Like, you know:
I mean, ignoring the Game Pass claim (which IIRC has stuff like NBA 2K and Fallout 4 that would absolutely be popularly-rated as highly as Sony first-party games), which is insane on its face, the second claim that MS doesn't have the guns is partially true (they need to build up their IP), but ignores that, yeah, people are going to be excited to play Forza on Switch! Forza is fucking popular!
Where I muddied the waters was that I gave my opinion about FH relative to what Sony put out last year, so now everyone thinks that I'm saying that Sony has weak first-party that no one likes. Nah, as a very happy PS4 owner, I wouldn't say that at all, but I said this to point out that actually, there are lots of people out there like me (and I talk to them) that would play Forza before a lot of the first-party stuff that Sony put out, and that it would ABSOLUTELY be a value add to the Switch at the general level of those first-party games.
(So you can ignore my personal opinion, which is that other than Spider-Man and MLB: The Show, I don't believe that I personally enjoyed any of Sony's first-party offerings in 2018 unless I'm forgetting something, and no, I didn't forget God of War, don't @ me on that one. I was expressing my opinion mostly to show that there are other opinions outside the bubble that some folks here think are crazy, but that are actually at least somewhat common!)
I mean, when you're discounting every viewpoint except for your own and your own sources; sure. I just don't see why I should put that much weight on those opinions, compared to professional critics and video game enthusiasts, combined with actual sales numbers. You haven't even provided the basis for why you hold the belief that MS owns IP that is just as popular as Sony's in 2019. When you're presented with numbers, you acknowledge them, but don't change your opinion, or provide any real reason why those numbers shouldn't be the end of the discussion.
Also, while the XBO certainly has sold less than the PS4 in the US as well, Forza Horizon 4 also released on PC. So, if the IP is really so well-loved, XBO install base shouldn't be any reason for the difference in sales.
Sure, quality games aren't always popular, and popular games can be shit. Just like movies, books, etc. The problem with your argument, is that most recent Microsoft 1st party titles have neither been well-received by critics, nor sold all that well compares to Sony's offering.
What do you base this on?
The sales of God of War don't hold up? It should be the same argument?
I mean, point to one in recent memory. Halo used to be in the same class as the major Sony IP, but that really hasn't been the case since Bungie jumped ship. Gears has also gone downhill in a major way. Fable is dead. Forza is proobably the strongest contender.
I'm not saying that Microsoft owns no popular IP, but the joke that Microsoft only makes Forza, Gears and Halo anymore is commonly used because there is some truth to it. They have run most of their major IPs into the ground by relying on them for so long.
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You mean the company supporting gamepass? How is that the same?
Are you posting from you blackberry?
Sony currently has the top selling console out that continues to sell well over 5 years after release.
They currently have the best game library by far.
They are currently the leader in game streaming with PSNow generating more revenue than all other subscription services combined. They have the "Netflix for games" already and it has expanded to multiple devices and they can expand it to more if they feel the need.
They are the lead in VR with PSVR being by far the best selling VR headset.
They have a huge legacy library (including the library from the best selling consoles of all time) that they could use to their advantage at any time if they feel the need to do so.
They already have a few highly anticipated games that have been announced that will release in the next two years.
They already have a bunch of highly regarded first party studios and are expanding them rather than buying ones that are on the brink of bankruptcy.
Do people think all of this will just disappear because Microsoft wants gamepass on the Switch? The way people are acting is unbelievable.
They currently have the best game library by far.
They are currently the leader in game streaming with PSNow generating more revenue than all other subscription services combined. They have the "Netflix for games" already and it has expanded to multiple devices and they can expand it to more if they feel the need.
They are the lead in VR with PSVR being by far the best selling VR headset.
They have a huge legacy library (including the library from the best selling consoles of all time) that they could use to their advantage at any time if they feel the need to do so.
They already have a few highly anticipated games that have been announced that will release in the next two years.
They already have a bunch of highly regarded first party studios and are expanding them rather than buying ones that are on the brink of bankruptcy.
Do people think all of this will just disappear because Microsoft wants gamepass on the Switch? The way people are acting is unbelievable.
The only thing MS has right now that is at least contending with Sony each year is Forza, it's their saving grace of the entire generation and that's great but compared to Sony's line up the Xbox quite simply doesn't compare, even Xbox fans acknowledge this and that's why they're so hopeful that the future will improve.
So as of right now, and i'm speaking about the general populace not just this site, Sony's games are simply much higher rated, by players, critics, forums, sites etc.
The idea it's just a niche concept of this site doesn't mesh with reality.
After all the rumours we're getting, if they end up being true, then I wouldn't need/buy a MS console anymore. I don't know if they're considering this sort of reaction from customers, or if services are more important than hardware manufacturing for them, and they're ok with it.
This is a weird response that makes me wonder if you actually are paying attention to my posts. What viewpoints am I discounting? In fact, I validated that there are both individual and (generally) site-wide viewpoints here that are just fine! My argument is that these viewpoints don't necessarily line up with popular viewpoints and that the idea that MS (or Gamepass) doesn't have much juice compared to Sony's first-party offerings is not based in actual reality.
Yeah, but FH4 is also on Gamepass, so how can we accurately measure its popularity just via sales numbers?
Well, again, FH4 sold the best that the series ever has when it came out, and this is considering that it was also on Gamepass Day 1 and still sold that well, so I think that the reasonable analysis is that it is roughly as popular as Sony's highest-level first-party stuff!
Absolutely, the sales of God of War hold up. It's just that I don't think that the sales of that game prove that it is so significantly more popular than, say, FH4, that FH4 doesn't really represent significant value to Gamepass or the Switch, which was the point of the original argument that I quoted.
i know this is far fetched, but this could be nintendo's out for getting of the hardware business. have ms make some their next portable thing with their dna and just make games...
ps: unbelievably extremely far fetched
ps: unbelievably extremely far fetched
*apart from PlayStation
MS are not going to do something which loses them money.
If they are going to have all there games natively on Playstation, they will not make consoles because that would lose them money.
The idea that Microsoft has nothing (or especially that Game Pass has nothing) that would rate for customers with Sony's best stuff is absolutely niche.
And as soon as I brought up Forza, I feel like that should he been a pretty hefty piece of evidence to the former. As for the latter, that Game Pass doesn't have anything that can compete with Sony's first-party stuff on a popular level, just one glance at the Game Pass lineup kills that idea dead. And remember, that's what the original post that I responded to was making a claim about!
I also already said that Sony has more valuable IP than Microsoft in their first-party stable, which I don't think is even an arguable point. I'm not going to go quote myself, but that's a point that I already agreed to a few posts ago before you even made it in this post. :)
Nintendo is even less likely to get out of hardware now.
I don't even know what planet I'm on when someone says that Microsoft are outputting games that are at least on a par with Sony's.
Get real.
It's because you're not on a planet with people who play games outside of your very tiny worldview.
Your planet is a bubble, and you are safely ensconced within it.
PlayStation division has been stupid in everyother venture besides Main console. From vita tv to remote play exclusively on xperia devices they have been constantly making mistakes. Things sony should do as soon as possible.
-Allow remote play on every device possible be it fire stick or iphone. Also put their store on it
- Similarly allow psnow on more devices and launch it world wide.
- launch a PlayStation hub on every platform possible. This hub should include emulators for all sony consoles. You can buy games on this hub for any PlayStation. If your device is powerful enough to support it then run it natively or else run it on psnow.
- make your ps store better. I shouldbe able to buy games music movies comics all these things on a single store like play store. Also give option for renting movies or streaming music.
- launch a new service with multiple tiers that combines ps plus ps now movies and music etc.
Ps brand should be every where be it you are paying games natively or streaming watching movies or listening to music.
Ironically some of these sony did tried in a half assed manner then abondnden them
-Allow remote play on every device possible be it fire stick or iphone. Also put their store on it
- Similarly allow psnow on more devices and launch it world wide.
- launch a PlayStation hub on every platform possible. This hub should include emulators for all sony consoles. You can buy games on this hub for any PlayStation. If your device is powerful enough to support it then run it natively or else run it on psnow.
- make your ps store better. I shouldbe able to buy games music movies comics all these things on a single store like play store. Also give option for renting movies or streaming music.
- launch a new service with multiple tiers that combines ps plus ps now movies and music etc.
Ps brand should be every where be it you are paying games natively or streaming watching movies or listening to music.
Ironically some of these sony did tried in a half assed manner then abondnden them
They are dismantling themselves if streaming is the future though.
People make up too much dramatic fan fiction with these things. XB games on Switch.....great. I don't know what that has to do with Sony or why everyone thinks when the big 3 announces something it has to mean doom for the other. It is possible for one to try and find success with what they're doing and *gasp* others continuing their success also.
That said, Sony is ending this gen with 100M+ consoles sold and there won't be new gens in the traditional sense. Same hardware architecture just more poweful and with BC. As big as PSN has become Sony is at the most advantage to retain their PS4 base. I don't really think Sony is the one who be would worrying about anything.
That said, Sony is ending this gen with 100M+ consoles sold and there won't be new gens in the traditional sense. Same hardware architecture just more poweful and with BC. As big as PSN has become Sony is at the most advantage to retain their PS4 base. I don't really think Sony is the one who be would worrying about anything.
Microsoft is currently in no market when it comes to video game streaming. PSNow is currently available in the most significant markets and they are continuing to expand. People are assuming that just because Microsoft offers cloud services to companies that they can do game streaming as if their is nothing else involved.
Sony do have a huge headstart in game streaming. They bought Gaikai and bought the patents from OnLive. They are currently the leader in video game streaming with more people using PSNow than any other subscription service. If they can get PSNow working on TVs they can get it to work on a Switch if they needed to.
I play on PS, Xbox, PC, and recently but briefly Switch. I look at getting games on a wide amount of platforms. Take a guess at which one is killing it, and which one is desperately playing catch up..
But Forza, yeah?
Indeed this kind of stubborness has a good chance of making them being late to future party.
I don't think Sony want things to change.
Ok, you really believe in that.
I guess you believe monkys can fly too, doesn't surprise me.
The argument that gamepass rates with Sony's offerings IS absurd.
Any game you can point to, you can point to that game already being available on Sony's store OR you can point to PSNow, which has heads and shoulders more games than Gamepass does.
Nobody will be streaming 2K on Switch when they can buy it outright, and no one will be singing the praises of multiplayer games they have to stream, regardless.
The idea that MS can overtake Sony with worse games, using streaming services Sony is ALREADY leading the charge in, while simultaneously having no games that even compete with Sony's financially or critically, is delusional.
You are severly underestimating the kind of cloud service MSFT is providing to customers.
They have the tech, the people and the infrastructure to leapfrog Sony by quite a margin.
A real competitor in that regard would be Amazon or Google, also it's not because we only hear about this just now that they just started working on this.
It's most likely a project that's taken quite the time to mature so that it can be customer ready now.
Sony is providing a service right now but there are indeed companies that could provide a better service, MSFT is among them.
They can but how long would that take, will it be as interesting as what MSFT provides?
If MSFT provides an excellent service in all markets by the end of the year, what chance is there for Sony to provide an alternative if they're already late in working on the project?
Also Nintendo allowing PSNow on Switch is absolutely not a given.
I really don't think Sony has much to worry about here. They can all survive. A chunk of the EU and JPN markets don't care for Xbox, so I don't see that changing if MS stuff gets released on Switch.
My problem is that sales, forums and reviews are the best measures we have for whether something is popular or not. You discount all of them, because they are niche, but provide no alternatives. That means you can draw whatever conclusion you want. It is not a logically sound way to argue.
If Forza was so popular, you can bet your ass that Microsoft would have shouted to the skies that it was downloaded by more users than bought God of War, or Spider-Man. However, you are correct that we cannot know. Just like we cannot know how many XBOs Microsoft has actually sold. Almost like there's a reason they don't want to let us(and investors) know...
It still didn't crack top 10, even in the US, and MS won't release any numbers. All this just tells us that the IP is more popular than it used to be. That is, if Greenberg didn't include Gamepass downloads as "sales" when he gave that statement. I find it suspicious that they never release any actual figures anymore, and he used to throw around a lot of bullshit when he had an account over at the old place.
You originally posted:
To which Telluric replied:
To which you replied:
To me, it reads as though you're arguing that the big MS IP are just as popular, if not more, than their Sony equivalent. Am I misreading you?
Anyway, I'm headed off to bed. I might just be tired. I don't disagree that some people will obviously find being able to play Horizon 4, or any Xbox game, on their Switch enticing.
that would give Nintendo a significant portion of Xbox and PlayStation's library too, combined with their own first party titles and you have the ultimate platform and there's no point in buying anything else. it'l never happen
