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Deleted member 58846

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Jul 28, 2019
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This is something I have seen be discussed surprisingly little, and I just wanted to bring some attention to it.

I want to emphasize how awesome it is that a big, AAA Xbox Game Studios release is going to have a transgender protagonist. This is huge, and literally no other game, developer, or publisher that I can remember (at least not the major ones) have allowed for this until now - certainly not in terms of having a pre-defined character you are playing who happens to be transgender.

Dontnod in general have been extremely great and progressive in terms of their games and representation - whether it was by pushing for women protagonists with Remember Me, then again with Life is Strange (also including great LGBTQ representation there with max and Chloe), and even the surprisingly candid commentary on the current state of American Politics with Life is Strange 2. Given that, I actually am entirely confident that they will do justice to their portrayal of a transgender young adult in Tell Me Why.

Mad kudos to Microsoft here as well - I really cannot think of very many publishers that would have taken a risk like this in terms of representation (and yes, we sadly live in a world, and are fans of a medium, where simply having a playable trans protagonist will be viewed by many as "pushing an SJW agenda" - but that's a whole other discussion).

So, yeah. Just wanted to give credit where credit is due (and there's a lot of it due) to MS and Dontnod for this. I sincerely hope this is the kind of thing that becomes more and more commonplace. Gaming is enjoyed by billions of people worldwide, from all walks of life. The characters in the games we play should start reflecting that.
 

Kamaros

Member
Aug 29, 2018
2,315
yes, welcomed progress.

in addition to this, i really want to see more persons of colors being the protags too.
 

NoirSuede

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
414
oh man that's an unfortunate title, I can see people saying "Tell Me Why having a transgender protagonist is important again?"
 
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Deleted member 58846

User requested account closure
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Jul 28, 2019
5,086
yes, welcomed progress.

in addition to this, i really want to see more persons of colors being the protags too.
Yes, this (as well as just protagonists of different nationalities, which games fail even worse at) is a major point I hope to see movement on. And not just with character creators and the like, where we do get a lot of these options, but I mean with prescribed protagonists as well.
 

Slayven

Never read a comic in his life
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Oct 25, 2017
92,983
DONTNOD seems to be one of the few studios that is actually evolving video game writing
 

Deleted member 17210

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Oct 27, 2017
11,569
It's great that Dontnod's doing things like this for representation. Trans people have almost no presence in video games.

I'm disappointed both of their 2020 games will take place in the US, though, as we need non-US developers to represent other parts of the world. I guess the poor sales of Remember Me and the high sales of Life is Strange scared them off from doing this.
 

Angst

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,418
White guy chiming in to say it's rad to play as other demographics.


I have enough people to relate to in media. It's cool to see alternative perspectives. Props to Dotnod
 

Deleted member 8752

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Oct 26, 2017
10,122
oh man that's an unfortunate title, I can see people saying "Tell Me Why having a transgender protagonist is important again?"
To head off this line of questioning - it's important because the medium should be inclusive and diverse. No matter your sexuality or race - I'm just a straight white guy - it gets boring playing as the same types of characters over and over. There are many types of people out there. Having the same architypal characters in video games holds back the art form from embracing reality as an inspiration to find new experiences to share.

We all benefit from diversity and representation in the medium.
 

BDS

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Oct 25, 2017
13,845
Let's see if they can avoid murdering all the queer people this time
 

Deleted member 18951

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Oct 27, 2017
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It's a risk, especially if we look at gaming communities online and on social media platforms but it is an absolutely required risk to take.

Really looking forward to playing it and also give huge props for Dontnid and MS for tackling this subject matter.

When everyone plays, we all win.

Truth!
 

defaltoption

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
11,482
Austin
Absolutely and it looks really good as well. Love throwing support at Dontnod whenever I can, and Microsoft picking this up and making it happen is great, they want to create new stories and explore things not touched in gaming.
 

Herey

Unshakable Resolve
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Jan 10, 2019
3,407
I remember they had a hard time pitching Remember Me to publishers because of its female protagonist so it's great they haven't caved in and are still willing to push for representation.
 
Oct 25, 2017
13,246
It's great!

I was not a fan of how the two writers wrote brown characters, and characterized racism, in LiS2, but I have hope here with the consulting that they are doing that they'll make something good.
 

Damn Silly

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,186
As someone who has been a fan of Dontnod since Remember Me, I'd give them "cautious props", at least until we see the results.

They've always been pushing for more diverse representation in their games (which still places them well ahead of most studios, sadly) but people with more knowledge about those communities than me (a straight white dude) have noted issues with their portrayal.
 

Javier23

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,904
Shoutout to Wadjet Eye games for this too <3

EDIT: Who Dontnod coincidentally are fans of.
 

KainXVIII

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,281
Imagine if Gears 6 or Halo 6 will do something similar (i can't, maybe these titles are too AAAA for this).
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,658
Hull, England
Not heard of this till this thread so looked it up on Google and the game sounds great, the little bit of the story that is mentioned in the article I read sounds really interesting especially as the main characthers are twins and one being Trans. Look forward to when this comes out next summer.
 
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Deleted member 58846

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It's great!

I was not a fan of how the two writers wrote brown characters, and characterized racism, in LiS2, but I have hope here with the consulting that they are doing that they'll make something good.
Having not played LiS2 yet, would you please be able to tell me what the issues are (spoiler-free)? I find that a bit disappointing...
 

Aurc

Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,890
Nice unmarked spoilers.
Not just that, but certain subsets of the LiS community are still so bitter about the fact that
LGBT+ people can die too. So many (potential) deaths in the first game, between Chloe, Rachel, Kate, Nathan, Jefferson, Frank, Pompidou, Joyce, and hell, most of Arcadia Bay, in one ending... but folks just focus on the fact that Chloe can die. The entire game is rife with death and sadness. C'mon.
 

SilverX

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Jan 21, 2018
12,977
I want to emphasize how awesome it is that a big, AAA Xbox Game Studios release is going to have a transgender protagonist.

I think you are confused about what Tell Me Why is. It is a three episode adventure game, which isn't really close to AAA. The representation is great, but it isn't that moment yet where there is a transgender character being the face of a big new IP or massive franchise like Grand Theft Auto, Assassin's Creed, etc.

It is definitely a needed step forward, but publishers and developers have a lot of work to do since we still have not seen that representation in a big budget game.
 

Titanpaul

Member
Jan 2, 2019
5,008
Not just that, but certain subsets of the LiS community are still so bitter about the fact that
LGBT people can die too. So many (potential) deaths in the first game, between Chloe, Rachel, Kate, Nathan, Jefferson, Frank, Pompidou, Joyce, and hell, all of Arcadia Bay... but folks just focus on the fact that Chloe can die. The entire game is rife with death and sadness. C'mon.

Don't pay attention to those arguments. If anything they're undermining the point they want to make.

Dontnod has proven themselves capable of telling good, thoughtful stories. I hope they can do the same here. Glad they're doing it.
 
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Deleted member 58846

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Jul 28, 2019
5,086
I think you are confused about what Tell Me Why is. It is a three episode adventure game, which isn't really close to AAA. The representation is great, but it isn't that moment yet where there is a transgender character being the face of a big new IP or massive franchise like Grand Theft Auto, Assassin's Creed, etc.

It is definitely a needed step forward, but publishers and developers have a lot of work to do since we still have not seen that representation in a big budget game.
It's still "AAA" in terms of being a flagship release by a first party, with all the backing that implies. I would love for a Halo Infinite, Breath of the Wild, or God of War level game to have this kind of headlining representation, but this is still absolutely major, and deserves props.
 

Molecule

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Nov 2, 2017
1,691
That's pretty cool. Looked up the trailer, had no idea about this game. Looks like an interesting story. Hopefully they do a good job.
 
Oct 25, 2017
13,246
Having not played LiS2 yet, would you please be able to tell me what the issues are (spoiler-free)? I find that a bit disappointing...

I don't want to derail the thread too much, so I'll link a brief post I had made here and if you have any questions, feel free to PM me.


--
I read that DONTNOD is consulting this time around, so I'm hopefull that they can craft something special for the trans community, which I think is what truly matters.
 
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Deleted member 58846

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I don't want to derail the thread too much, so I'll link a brief post I had made here and if you have any questions, feel free to PM me.


--
I read that DONTNOD is consulting this time around, so I'm hopefull that they can craft something special for the trans community, which I think is what truly matters.
Oooof. That does not sound good at all, and actually sort of puts me off from trying the game. Yeah, I hope TMW is better on this front... your last sentence in that post is especially damning. I mean, props for trying and everything, but yeah.
 

Calvinien

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Jul 13, 2019
2,970
Imagine if Gears 6 or Halo 6 will do something similar (i can't, maybe these titles are too AAAA for this).

Well Gears has a Latina (or whatever the seran equivalent is) protagonist and due to events of gears 5 is would be pretty inconvenient to shift to a new character in 6. Also technically Master Chief is ace. Not the same as trans characters but both have a surprisingly good representation. At least compared to other shooters.


I'd be really interested in knowing what the story was with XGS publishing Tell Me Why. Who sought out whom? I can't believe Squeenix was disastisfied with the performance of previous dontnod games so i can't see them turning down what is essentially Life is strange 3. On the other hand, Choose-your-own-adventure-starring-a-trans-protagonist is one hell of a niche genre for a major studio to specifically seek out, let alone make exclusive. We all saw how people lost their shit at the whole 'ellie is a lesbian' thing. So what was the sequence of events?

Did Squeenix not want to publish? Did dontnod not want to be tied with a specific publisher? Did Spencer just want to one-up TLOU for shits and giggles and ordered matt booty to throw money at the wokest game he could find? There doesn't seem to be a path to this through traditional amoral corporate maneuverings.
 

SilverX

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Jan 21, 2018
12,977
It's still "AAA" in terms of being a flagship release by a first party, with all the backing that implies. I would love for a Halo Infinite, Breath of the Wild, or God of War level game to have this kind of headlining representation, but this is still absolutely major, and deserves props.

Microsoft publishes a lot of small and middle scale games under Xbox Game Studios, and everything about the genre and format of the release says it is not a major investment. You are not going to see commercials and tons of promotions for Tell Me Why so it is not a flagship game in the slightest.

I can't wait to play it and I like that XGS is the publisher (Game Pass day one I hope that means), but we have still yet to see a major commitment from any publisher or developer to have a playable transgender character. I believe that a lot more has to be done and I just wouldn't want to give the gaming industry credit for that level of representation when it isn't there yet.

It was just your phrasing really by calling it a AAA game, when we have yet to see any publisher or developer back a transgender protagonist for big budget game. This is a step towards it, but I really would like to see the community feel that they have achieved that level of needed representation which is still lacking for many groups and communities.
 
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Deleted member 58846

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Microsoft publishes a lot of small and middle scale games under Xbox Game Studios, and everything about the genre and format of the release says it is not a major investment. You are not going to see commercials and tons of promotions for Tell Me Why so it is not a flagship game in the slightest.

I can't wait to play it and I like that XGS is the publisher (Game Pass day one I hope that means), but we have still yet to see a major commitment from any publisher or developer to have a playable transgender character. I believe that a lot more has to be done and I just wouldn't want to give the gaming industry credit for that level of representation when it isn't there yet.

It was just your phrasing really by calling it a AAA game, when we have yet to see any publisher or developer back a transgender protagonist for big budget game. This is a step towards it, but I really would like to see the community feel that they have achieved that level of needed representation which is still lacking for many groups and communities.
Absolutely, I will not disagree with any of that :)
 

scrambledeggs

Member
Apr 25, 2018
486
And a trans man too! We don't see a lot of them in games OR in the entertainment medium in general.

With this and TLOU2 coming out next summer close to or around Pride season, my gay ass is more than excited!
 

Deleted member 56580

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May 8, 2019
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Chloe, Aloy, the duo in Lost Legacy and Claire are the women characters I like the best this gen, and they happen to be some of the most memorable as well ! here's to go even further
 

ventuno

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Nov 11, 2019
1,948
Definitely welcome progress that I hope will help pave the way for more to come however the game turns out.

I think it's important to have some empathy for those that are wary, because well-handled diversity isn't the norm (hence this thread) and that's where a lot of people are coming from.

Many are understandably tired of having their low expectations not being met or of having to wait for baby steps to be made. In the worst of cases, Dontnod can become the only receptacle for frustration and disappointment because they seem like the only party who'll at least listen even if they don't or can't do anything. I hope the game does well and I think that Dontnod have an understanding of how important this is, but we won't know till it's out and that's not enough for some.
 

zoltek

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,917
Absolutely agree. They should be praised. With that said, if the game isn't that good, it won't matter who the protagonist is.