So Ladiva from the game franchise Granblue Fantasy is getting huge praise on twitter as positive representation of a Transwomen

[Sheentak]

Disclaimer I am a cis guy so this post might very well be discarded and I could be very wrong and i do not mean to hurt any feelings, I just wanted to share something that really made me think and maybe help people to find a new character they might like. If im wrong feel free to explain!


So on twitter I have been seeing a alot of Granblue fans talking about this character called Ladvia with fan arc of her holding rainbow flags and im seeing a lot of people loving her. So i got curious and i started to look into the character as she currently has an event on the mobile game Granblue Fantasy and was revealed to be a character in the fighting game Granblue Fantasy Versus. She is a Trans/genderqueer pro wrestler, Bar tender and all round loving character who promotes self care!

Shes currently got the lead event in the mobile game called No Rain, No Rainbow

Here she is

And here she is in her fighting game trailer


So at first fglance when i first see her, im like Yikes this is just going to be the old tiresome Okama stereotype from Japan BUT since I see so many LGBT granblue players on twitter loving her I thought there must be more on her So i decided to do research and a series of tweets ( warning Long) explains her and now im in total love!

This amazing twitter thread explains it well





Please check out the whole twitter thread its excellent and really goes into detail how great representation she is but
TLDR
Ladvia is a Transwomen whos always referred by other characters as she, everyone on the grancypher uses she/her pronouns for her. and continues to use them. Ladvia is a constant in female only game events. When she first came out some language was suspect but it has improved greatly and her newest unit has no predatory language at all and she has the current story spotlight event where "the latest updates to her plotline via her ssr are flashbacks to her past as a young woman, pre-wrestling... and one of the first scenes is her telling elmott, a regular at her, bar about the moment when she discovered her reason to love her own body. there's nothing skeezy about it, no winks or nudges. just her finding her purpose and going at it with everything she has. and it's good. it's good. it's really, very good". Cygames localisation team has also gone back and retranslated everything to make sure there is no misgendering. She is all about empathy and she has reallly become a hit on LBGT Granblue twitter

Please read Mawi's thread, its explained much better than i can.

 

[Sheentak]

Now here are some other reactions to Ladvia

Cygames have literally made her the face of pride for Granblue

 

[Sheentak]

Here are even some more reactions to her just to get the point sorry (stupid restriction list on media)

 

[Numb]

Can't wait to sub in GBVS
Be top tier please

 

[fontguy]

💕💕💕

 

[Dreamboum]

that's dope, props to granblue

 

[Theswweet]

Man, I'm SUPER excited for Granblue Versus. I enjoyed the Beta way more than I had anticipated, and seeing stuff like this just makes it easier to get hyped.

 

[Blizz]

That's really good to see, the more people from all walks of life get represented in games, the better.

 

[Platy]

As I said in other threads, I am not a fan since it look like a transphobic version of a trans woman.
It could have worked better if the character was nobinary, but everything screams transphobic shit here.

It is like they were so transphobic that it made the turn to trans accepting.

And that is ignoring that the other trans girl that the text mentions is basically a 100 year old dragon which is a whole another problem in itself

And half of me thinks she received shit armor because of respect and half of me think she didn't get a butt attack for lack of respect =P

 

[PettySpirit]

I'm going to out myself and admit my knee jerk response was that the beard really messing with me. But instead I stopped myself and laid that thought to rest. That response ain't kosher and I'm not proud to hold that L.

I don't know anything about Granblue Fantasy, and had been watching this game as a general fan of fighting games and Arc System Works. When I saw this character, there was IMMEDIATE appeal. I thought she was just a super feminine dude, or that Okama stereotype that gets pushed. I had no idea she was a Transwoman, and I honestly think that's cool as hell. I look forward to playing the fuck outta her.

 

[Brazil]

Ladiva wasn't a great character from the get-go, but the writing around her has really improved over time. The latest event with her was amazing.

 

[Platy]

To expand my point : She has the most masculine body this game can provide. She literally don't even care to shave (the clean shaven picture is a flashback). They literally went all their troubles to create the most masculine looking trans woman.
Just look to the replies to the tweets linked. Every single one has a transphobic shit.

Just because the writing lately does the MINIMUM REQUIRED does not mean it deserves a prize.

If she was non binary, ok. Being a girly trans woman, fuck you granblue

 

[Icemonk191]

As I said in other threads, I am not a fan since it look like a transphobic version of a trans woman.
It could have worked better if the character was nobinary, but everything screams transphobic shit here.

It is like they were so transphobic that it made the turn to trans accepting.

And that is ignoring that the other trans girl that the text mentions is basically a 100 year old dragon which is a whole another problem in itself

And half of me thinks she received shit armor because of respect and half of me think she didn't get a butt attack for lack of respect =P

Click to shrink...

Yeah i agree with you. Not a fan at all.

 

[Robin]

Have to agree this makes me feel pretty icky (at a cursory glance).

 

[Zacmortar]

To expand my point : She has the most masculine body this game can provide. She literally don't even care to shave (the clean shaven picture is a flashback). They literally went all their troubles to create the most masculine looking trans woman.
Just look to the replies to the tweets linked. Every single one has a transphobic shit.

Just because the writing lately does the MINIMUM REQUIRED does not mean it deserves a prize.

If she was non binary, ok. Being a girly trans woman, fuck you granblue

Click to shrink...

Because you're only a transwoman if you're at most androgynous, yeah? Masculine transwomen exist and a lot more common than you think, trans people aren't all the same shtick, and the fact she's been treated with so much respect says more than any bias about her design.

 

[Sheentak]

To expand my point : She has the most masculine body this game can provide. She literally don't even care to shave (the clean shaven picture is a flashback). They literally went all their troubles to create the most masculine looking trans woman.

Just because the writing lately does the MINIMUM REQUIRED does not mean it deserves a prize.

If she was non binary, ok. Being a girly trans woman, fuck you granblue

Click to shrink...

So your issue is her desgin not much her characterisation? I mean masculine transwomen do exist and theres currently a movement of transwomen growing beards. of course i don't think Cygames made that design for that kind of statement as no way they would have a bearded women a positive portrayal.

But heres things that seem to imply she is is a non binary transwomen


Sounds to me she presents her gender as female but she still likes her current body.

OF course i could be wrong with this, but gender is performative

 

[Platy]

Because you're only a transwoman if you're at most androgynous, yeah? Masculine transwomen exist and a lot more common than you think, trans people aren't all the same shtick, and the fact she's been treated with so much respect says more than any bias about her design.

Click to shrink...

But heres things that seem to imply she is is a non binary transwomen


Sounds to me she presents her gender as female but she still likes her current body.

OF course i could be wrong with this, but gender is performative

Click to shrink...

All her design decisions were made for her to be the most masculine version of herself possible. You know, how transphobic assholes love to remind us that we are men. Her design is undistinguishable of a transphobic as fuck decision.
She literally say she loves her body because it made her be able to help innocent by fighting other people.
IN A GAME WHERE THE FIGHTING GAME HAS A LITERALL SKINNY LITTLE GIRL BEATING PEOPLE UP

I am not saying trans women can't be masculine (i am pretty tomboy myself) but EVERYTHING about the design and images and drawings and history of this character that I saw brings more red flags than a communist parade.

And your own thread in the op ends with the creators saying you can call her male pronoums. Pretty good representation there.

As a trans woman from a catholic transphobic country all I have to say to "my parents gave me my body it is my treasure" is a big FUCK YOU to not changing something because of respect for biological lotery

 

[Inuhanyou]

If gender is flowing, you dont have to look androgynous to be trans. There are plenty of people like that, who dont feel comfortable in their own body.

If people like the character, let them

Honestly, her dead self is representative of a lot of guys in reverse who become females through operation and you cant tell the difference

 

[Brazil]

All her design decisions were made for her to be the most masculine version of herself possible. You know, how transphobic assholes love to remind us that we are men. Her design is undistinguishable of a transphobic as fuck decision.
She literally say she loves her body because it made her be able to help innocent by fighting other people.
IN A GAME WHERE THE FIGHTING GAME HAS A LITERALL SKINNY LITTLE GIRL BEATING PEOPLE UP

I am not saying trans women can't be masculine (i am pretty tomboy myself) but EVERYTHING about the design and images and drawings and history of this character that I saw brings more red flags than a communist parade.

And your own thread in the op ends with the creators saying you can call her male pronoums. Pretty good representation there.

As a trans woman from a catholic transphobic country all I have to say to "my parents gave me my body it is my treasure" is a big FUCK YOU to not changing something because of respect for biological lotery

Click to shrink...

She definitely started off as an okama-style stereotype/joke character. Instead of leaving her like that, though, they found a way to turn her into a legitimately good and respectful character, albeit still limited by what they already had in place in terms of design.

I'm hopeful that the next trans character they add will be a more thoughtful proposition starting from their very conception.

 

[SoftTaur]

Was going to give my two cents how as a trans woman I don't like the character but that long Twitter thread completely changed my mind on how I feel about her. My assumption was always that she was treated as an awful stereotype and Cagliostro was sort of an "apology" character or something. But it seems she's generally been treated with respect the entire time which makes me happy.

Now if only the game treated Balurga better since it seems pretty obvious he is a trans man but is referred to as "she".

 

[lake]

All her design decisions were made for her to be the most masculine version of herself possible. You know, how transphobic assholes love to remind us that we are men. Her design is undistinguishable of a transphobic as fuck decision.
...
As a trans woman from a catholic transphobic country all I have to say to "my parents gave me my body it is my treasure" is a big FUCK YOU to not changing something because of respect for biological lotery

Click to shrink...

Think I agree.

Her design reminds me of Mari from Project A-Ko (yeah, uh...) but with ostensibly respectful writing.

I dunno, I feel real mixed, there's a ton to unpack here.

 

[rude]

The design is so clearly intentioned to be off putting and a caricaturization of trans people, but if the writing is there I guess...

 

[GoldStarz]

To expand my point : She has the most masculine body this game can provide. She literally don't even care to shave (the clean shaven picture is a flashback). They literally went all their troubles to create the most masculine looking trans woman.
Just look to the replies to the tweets linked. Every single one has a transphobic shit.

Just because the writing lately does the MINIMUM REQUIRED does not mean it deserves a prize.

If she was non binary, ok. Being a girly trans woman, fuck you granblue

Click to shrink...

You're a truscum, aren't you?

 

[Mekanos]

Mixed is how I would describe my feeling of this character. "Overly masculine trans woman" is a pretty tired trope, but it seems like she is treated respectfully compared to most portrayals.

 

[Deleted member 56266]

The design is so clearly intentioned to be off putting and a caricaturization of trans people, but if the writing is there I guess...

Click to shrink...

what is a trans person supposed to look like...

 

[ReginaldXIV]

She's not only narratively referred as she/her. Mechanically she is also a she/her in valentine events, certain abilities that target specific genders, etc.

She also got an SSR for the event which seems fine, but all melee spec characters in this game are just fine. She takes a lot of upkeep to maintain her grapple state which only lasts 1 turn, but resets everytime she does a charge attack.

 

[Platy]

She definitely started off as an okama-style stereotype/joke character. Instead of leaving her like that, though, they found a way to turn her into a legitimately good and respectful character, albeit still limited by what they already had in place in terms of design.

I'm hopeful that the next trans character they add will be a more thoughtful proposition starting from their very conception.

Click to shrink...

To talk in brazilian meme language

(translation : Damires, you didn't do more than what you had to do. Signed: Your parents)

You're a truscum, aren't you?

Click to shrink...

Seriously?

 

[The Last Laugh]

Not all trans look like Bailey Jay or Natalie Mars. I genuinely believe the writing is the more important factor here.

 

[Brazil]

To talk in brazilian meme language

(translation : Damires, you didn't do more than what you had to do. Signed: Your parents)

Click to shrink...

You're not wrong. And yet, this is way beyond what I've been trained to expect :x

 

[Musubi]

And yet ATLUS is over here stinking up the joint with their Catherine Full Body shit. Good on everyone from Granblue. Glad to see a Japanese developer actually recognize this in a way that is genuine and not fetishized to death.

 

[Zaeia]

Yeah as others have said this is treaded territory. In many cases it has been derogatory, but as some are pointing out. The localization team are going the extra mile to turn lemons into mini lemon meringue tarts.

 

[Mechanized]

Forgive the ignorance, but I thought being trans meant that you feel you are the other sex so you transition to become the other sex. So why does she have a beard? Is trans the correct verbiage here? Even early in transition wouldn't shaving be like task 1, appearance wise?

 

[Zaeia]

Forgive the ignorance, but I thought being trans meant that you feel you are the other sex so you transition to become the other sex. So why does she have a beard? Is trans the correct verbiage here? Even early in transition wouldn't shaving be like task 1, appearance wise?

Click to shrink...

Trans also includes non-binary/non gender conforming.

 

[Subconian Dreamer]

You're a truscum, aren't you?

Click to shrink...

if the definitintion of truscum nowadays is "no, that giant man with a beard isn't great representation of a trans woman" then sign me the fuck up because we've obviously hit fucking crazy town

you can do a strong, masculine trans woman without it being whatever the fuck this gross shit is.

 

[Deleted member 56803]

Forgive the ignorance, but I thought being trans meant that you feel you are the other sex so you transition to become the other sex. So why does she have a beard? Is trans the correct verbiage here? Even early in transition wouldn't shaving be like task 1, appearance wise?

Click to shrink...

This isn't really the place to talk about this, but the answer is a firm sometimes. Depends on the person, how dysphoria exhibits itself, how they are passing, etc. Complicated politics.

 

[Deleted member 56803]

I'll take what I can get at this point. What an industry, what a world.

 

[Etrian Darkness]

She's my queen and I'll stan her

 

[Ailanthium]

Forgive the ignorance, but I thought being trans meant that you feel you are the other sex so you transition to become the other sex. So why does she have a beard? Is trans the correct verbiage here? Even early in transition wouldn't shaving be like task 1, appearance wise?

Click to shrink...

The transition aspect of it is optional. Some transwomen prefer to keep their appearance, while some drastically change it (up to and including surgery). And just as some cis (non-trans) women have bears or facial hair, transwomen may also have beards. It's as simple as that.

 

[Platy]

I have to say that I think that one day a character looking like her will be a good representation. With a different backstory and different motivations, but the design might be acceptable one day as there are people like this.

But "there are people like this" is a pretty shitty defense to ANY bad design. I know people who already did almost involuntary cosplays of Laura, but SF5's Laura is still a PRETTY BAD DESIGN because everyhting surrounding it, INCLUDING the context. And context here is important.

The context is that if Fox News made a videogame featuring a trans women, this is how she would look like.

 

[Ardiloso]

To expand my point : She has the most masculine body this game can provide. She literally don't even care to shave (the clean shaven picture is a flashback). They literally went all their troubles to create the most masculine looking trans woman.
Just look to the replies to the tweets linked. Every single one has a transphobic shit.

Just because the writing lately does the MINIMUM REQUIRED does not mean it deserves a prize.

If she was non binary, ok. Being a girly trans woman, fuck you granblue

Click to shrink...

I'm glad those words came from a trans woman because that is exactly how I feel but as a cis man was afraid of talking.
The character looks like a bad joke and the trailer just confirms this. I'm surprised people are OK with this almost phobic portray. Or I'm really out of touch.

 

[Icemonk191]

I have to say that I think that one day a character looking like her will be a good representation. With a different backstory and different motivations, but the design might be acceptable one day as there are people like this.

But "there are people like this" is a pretty shitty defense to ANY bad design. I know people who already did almost involuntary cosplays of Laura, but SF5's Laura is still a PRETTY BAD DESIGN because everyhting surrounding it, INCLUDING the context. And context here is important.

The context is that if Fox News made a videogame featuring a trans women, this is how she would look like.

Click to shrink...

Platy I just want to say that you have been killing it in this thread. Thanks for explaining the problems here better than I could.

 

[Saturday]

Huh. Having played GBF a lot Ladiva is portrayed wonderfully (to my memory, nothing about her is played for a joke; she's a renowned fighter of note in a casino venue, but she's not overbearing despite this?) but having said that, I can certainly see the issues and points of view of criticism that are being raised in this thread.

Admittingly I'm a bit bummed out about Ladiva now, but I still like her.

 

[Waffle]

I have to say that I think that one day a character looking like her will be a good representation. With a different backstory and different motivations, but the design might be acceptable one day as there are people like this.

But "there are people like this" is a pretty shitty defense to ANY bad design. I know people who already did almost involuntary cosplays of Laura, but SF5's Laura is still a PRETTY BAD DESIGN because everyhting surrounding it, INCLUDING the context. And context here is important.

The context is that if Fox News made a videogame featuring a trans women, this is how she would look like.

Click to shrink...

Nice post. I had a similar feeling but didn't know how to really express it properly. I'm glad the character is written well from what I'm hearing though.

 

[Deleted member 3093]

I don't have a strong opinion either way on this design and am of two minds on it, but I do have opinions on how there seems to be a bit of aggression towards trans people who talk about how the design is problematic, often aggression towards them by cis people. Trans women can have penises and facial hair and no breasts, trans men can have vaginas and no facial hair and breasts, and they don't even need to dislike that they have these features. Yet, that should never ever be used to shoot down criticism of a design that has designs that read as transphobia. And it's especially not an excuse to make this accusation:

You're a truscum, aren't you?

Click to shrink...

Like, I reeeelly hope GoldStarz is trans, because if not...

yikes

 

[Love Machine]

Hmm, I can understand the critiques, but in general this is pretty awesome. GB Versus actually looks pretty good, too! Great animation.
I've got a Japanese friend trying to rope me into playing it, and now I've seen Ladiva in action I might just bite haha.

 

[Deleted member 2669]

The usual okama tells and coding aren't quite there, like grey stubble and heavy makeup. I think this kind of design can be validating and the writing seems good.

Still, it's totally fair for trans people to feel put off by this.

 

[Kinsei]

The way I see it is like this, despite the fact that the design reinforces some really harmful stereotypes that media has been pushing forever, if the writing is positive then I'll take it as an example of positive representation. Granted that just goes to show the abysmal state of representation wgen it comes to trans people.

 

[Mobyduck]

My first impression was a negative one, when I first saw her mentioned in the Pride month topic. Knowing how badly LGBTQ+ folk are usually presented by Japanese media, I'd assume she was a joke character. Reading that thread, I'd probably put her in the same category I put Silvando. They are well written enough that a section of the LGBTQ+ group will see in them a good representation, but they are also very stereotypical, either in manner, appearance or both, which make them weaker, considering the diversity that is the LGBTQ+ group.

I'm not trans, though, so I won't make further judgement, and will remain happy to know some trans folk have found another icon in a game they enjoy.

 

[Subconian Dreamer]

like, the fact that the game uses the right pronouns and includes her in female events and whatever doesn't change the fact that the design is a massive fucking "hurr, look, the man thinks he's a woman!" man in a dress ass stereotype.

this gross shit is some "no representation is better than bad representation" shit and you all are trying to talk like she's a fucking positive piece of representation. might as well fucking be talking about how great Atlus treats Erica while you're at it.

 

[Subconian Dreamer]

then again what more would you expect when Jared Leto gets awards for playing a trans woman when the movie can't even treat that character with the respect of not being like "he was my friend too!" when she dies

that's the level of shit we're expected to lap up. Jared Leto in makeup and a wig getting misgendered by his character's closest friends is the trans rep of our time

no wonder people are happy with this gross bullshit