I literally don't remember that detail and it's all a blobby blur of sand hatred and no-ba fett
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So wait, the clones being on the side of the good was supposed to be a plot twist?
- Thread starter Gustaf
- Start date
I literally don't remember that detail and it's all a blobby blur of sand hatred and no-ba fett
OP
OP
well the movie treats the creation of the clone army by a jedi master in secret like a possible "it could be either way"
by the end of the movie turns out they are helping the jedi and the republic, and what i was wondering is if this is supposed to come as a surprise to the audience.
i think i was literally so overwhelmed by visual spectacle and stuff I was having trouble processing as "authentic " that I probably owe them another watch.
OP
OP
there is nothing weird about this
"is the clones helping the jedi at the end of AOTC supposed to be a plot twist?"
what is your answer.
It is, maybe not a full on twist but a surprise. You don't even know about the Droid army until like three scenes beforehand. Everything escalates quickly.
I don't understand what OP is asking about either, it's pretty cut and dry.
I mean the new, bigger conspiracy/army. Not just the trade federation, but the whole slew of separatists. As we left them in Episode 1, the "droid army" (just the trade federation) was all but defeated and the Republic didn't even recognize them as any kind of issue at all.
When I say you don't know about them, I mean you don't know about them being back, bigger than ever, and now a galactic rather than planetary threat.
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What makes no sense to me is that Jango Fett is killed in that big fucking battle and Obi Wan doesn't connect the two. You saw him at the Clone factory, they used him to make clones. Now you see him fighting with the bad guys, yet you still want to use these clones? The Republic deserved to fall because it was ran by a bunch of fucking idiots.
this was always the big stickler for me
obi-wan is specifically trying to figure out who's attempting to assassinate the anti-war senator who doesn't want an army for the repbulic, then he finds an army for the republic to be used in a war, then he finds out that the assassin who's helping to make the army is actually working for the one person in the galaxy who is supposedly least likely to want the republic to have an army (the person the republic would to war with [with their army]) and thus would have no motive to order the assassination of an anti-war senator, and everyone just shrugs and goes "weird, guess we just have to use this new army for the republic to go to war with"
I remember being surprised while watching episode 2, yes. Finding out that clones were on the "good" side and that they were proto-stormtroopers with star destroyers as their backdrop was a shock. I didnt see it coming. However I was also 14.
Though I do remember even then being really confused why everyone was so chill about a mysterious clone army and just deciding to roll with it. Seemed fucking stupid to just take on a whole army of mysterious origin and barely questioning it. Which of course that army was programmed to slaughter jedi, and did so in the next movie. Even as a 14 year old I was like "this is fuckin questionable leadership yoda my dude."
Though I do remember even then being really confused why everyone was so chill about a mysterious clone army and just deciding to roll with it. Seemed fucking stupid to just take on a whole army of mysterious origin and barely questioning it. Which of course that army was programmed to slaughter jedi, and did so in the next movie. Even as a 14 year old I was like "this is fuckin questionable leadership yoda my dude."
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Growing up prior to the prequels, I always assumed they had cloned various Jedi for nefarious deeds.
Not to mention the guy that all of the clones are based on is standing there among the top brass of the opposing army in the arena, and a top general of the Republic and top ranking Jedi Master Mace Windu looks him right in the face and never later wonders why his entire new army looks like the guy.
Not to mention the guy that all of the clones are based on is standing there among the top brass of the opposing army in the arena, and a top general of the Republic and top ranking Jedi Master Made Windu looks him right in the face and never later wonders why his entire new army looks like the guy.
Hey I mean Windu didn't know he was working with a Sith Lord, how the hell would he be able to tell that the Clone Army would turn on the Jedi?! If Yoda didn't know, no one was going to be able to know!
I pulled out my OG Visual Dictionary. My most prized possession.
I thought it mentioned that Vader was injured in a lava fight but it just says that
"Vader's injuries occurred in a battle gainast his former teacher, Obi-Wan Kenobi"
Doesn't get any more specific than that.
Fun fact: The visual dictionary does point out that Obi-Wan's robes are indeed jedi robes.
It's only the Spaarti clones cause they are grown so fast. You sent me down an old EU rabbit hole. Be back in three hours.
I thought it mentioned that Vader was injured in a lava fight but it just says that
"Vader's injuries occurred in a battle gainast his former teacher, Obi-Wan Kenobi"
Doesn't get any more specific than that.
Fun fact: The visual dictionary does point out that Obi-Wan's robes are indeed jedi robes.
It's only the Spaarti clones cause they are grown so fast. You sent me down an old EU rabbit hole. Be back in three hours.
I remember years before the prequels, everybody on my playground argued whether Vader got disfigured in lava or in acid. But we knew it was one of those.
I posted this last page, but on post 100 so I'm sure it got lost in the shuffle. From the novelization of Return of the Jedi.
Obi Wan: "When I saw what had become of him, I tried to dissuade him, to draw him back from the dark side. We fought…your father fell into a molten pit. When your father clawed his way out of that fiery pool, the change had been burned into him forever—he was Darth Vader, without a trace of Anakin Skywalker. Irredeemably dark. Scarred. Kept alive only by machinery and his own black will."
I think it was (surprise surprise) just another third Reich metaphor, the brainwashed population and the Hitler Youth. I doubt Lucas cared much about them being on the good side at the start as a twist. Not very well thought out and executed, welcome to Star Wars!
Interesting, I guess it spread from there. I never read those books but, we all knew anyway lol.
just finished watching the movies why the hell is it so long SO much could have been cut from it holy shit. Most of the Padme/Anakin shit esp. I just don't remember it being that long
They didn't have much choice though, they discovered that the separatist had much bigger forces than anticipated and that the republic would not be able to stand up to them without the help of the clone army. Since they knew for a fact that Sith were involved with the separatist side the stakes were extremely high. Probably hard to convince anyone that they should stop using them after they proved to be effective and loyal in the first few battles.
So in this scenario, was Palpy just supposedly like "I need to come up with an alias to order these clones...I've got it! Sido-Dyas! No one will ever trace it back to me."
I assume that he used the name on purpose so that when the Jedi found out, they would think the Sith were building a clone army for themselves. The Jedi would then think they're pulling a fast one by taking the clones for the Republic, not knowing that they're doing exactly what Sidious wants.
Who knows? I do like the idea of Palpatine ordering the clones more than what we got, though.
But then if he wants them to think it's the Sith, why wouldn't he just use the regular Sidious name? I dunno. None of options seems very well thought out.
The other dumbest thing about Obi-Wan's quest:
So, the entire galaxy spanning war (as far as the vast majority of the galaxy knows) is fought for four years between the Republic and the Separatists. The former led by Chancellor Palpatine, the latter by Count Dooku.
In truth, the whole war is a sham, and the two leaders are actually in cahoots. Dooku's rebellion is actually on the orders of Palpatine and they're secretly in constant contact throughout the war, coordinating their battles. This is such a tightly kept secret that even the top brass Inner circle on each side never gets a hint of it (Jedi generals and council on Palp's side, Separatist guild leaders and generals like Grievous, Ventress, etc on Dooku's side).
The story is so well planned out that Palp starts it in motion ten years earlier with a smaller rebellion on Naboo, to gain sympathy for the eventual Separatist cause. It's all so elaborate and meticulously planned that it fools the whole galaxy - billions upon billions of people!
So why in the possible hell does Dooku casually tell Obi-Wan the truth on the eve of the whole thing kicking off? He figures this loyal, council-seated Jedi whom he just met should be told Not only that he's a Sith, but also that there's another Sith leading the other side. 🤷🏻♂️
Over ten years of planning went into the most audacious, far reaching, history altering scheme ever, but at the last second, Dooku decides to just let the biggest lynchpin secret of the whole thing slip to some rando current Jedi he meets!
And THEN, even stupider, Obi-Wan goes back to Yoda and Mace and tells them, and they blow it off! They tell him ah forget it, Kenobi, Dooku is probably just making shit up. Then they spend the next four years fighting for Palp against Dooku, getting untold numbers of civilians killed, and it only dawns on them four years later at the end of the war that maybe they're both Siths on the same side!
It makes zero sense for Dooku to spill the beans, and even less for Yoda, Mace and Obi to just forget about it for the entire war! (Except that Lucas just really wanted the second movie to have a "Join me and we'll rebel against Palpatine" scene to mirror ESB.)
So, the entire galaxy spanning war (as far as the vast majority of the galaxy knows) is fought for four years between the Republic and the Separatists. The former led by Chancellor Palpatine, the latter by Count Dooku.
In truth, the whole war is a sham, and the two leaders are actually in cahoots. Dooku's rebellion is actually on the orders of Palpatine and they're secretly in constant contact throughout the war, coordinating their battles. This is such a tightly kept secret that even the top brass Inner circle on each side never gets a hint of it (Jedi generals and council on Palp's side, Separatist guild leaders and generals like Grievous, Ventress, etc on Dooku's side).
The story is so well planned out that Palp starts it in motion ten years earlier with a smaller rebellion on Naboo, to gain sympathy for the eventual Separatist cause. It's all so elaborate and meticulously planned that it fools the whole galaxy - billions upon billions of people!
So why in the possible hell does Dooku casually tell Obi-Wan the truth on the eve of the whole thing kicking off? He figures this loyal, council-seated Jedi whom he just met should be told Not only that he's a Sith, but also that there's another Sith leading the other side. 🤷🏻♂️
Over ten years of planning went into the most audacious, far reaching, history altering scheme ever, but at the last second, Dooku decides to just let the biggest lynchpin secret of the whole thing slip to some rando current Jedi he meets!
And THEN, even stupider, Obi-Wan goes back to Yoda and Mace and tells them, and they blow it off! They tell him ah forget it, Kenobi, Dooku is probably just making shit up. Then they spend the next four years fighting for Palp against Dooku, getting untold numbers of civilians killed, and it only dawns on them four years later at the end of the war that maybe they're both Siths on the same side!
It makes zero sense for Dooku to spill the beans, and even less for Yoda, Mace and Obi to just forget about it for the entire war! (Except that Lucas just really wanted the second movie to have a "Join me and we'll rebel against Palpatine" scene to mirror ESB.)
When I first saw the movie I legitimately didn't even piece together that it was supposed to be some kind of twist since the entire movie was nonsensical. Like everyone else said, the entire sequence on Kamino and then just up and using the army with little hesitation was totally ridiculous.
The most memorable thing about that film was pre-release when McGregor first learned the title while on the red carpet with Nicole Kidman.
The most memorable thing about that film was pre-release when McGregor first learned the title while on the red carpet with Nicole Kidman.
The only way this makes sense is if Dooku wanted Obi-Wan to join him so he could kill Palpatine and take over as the head Dark Lord guy. However, even then why the fuck would you spell out your plan without any evidence to back you up!?
Dooku: Hey guy who my droids captured and locked up. Join me since your leader is Evil. I have no evidence to back this up and I literally put you in jail but do it anyway!
Obi-Wan: Umm no?
Dooku: Fine then, byebye.
It pre-dated RotJ, I think I read it on a bubblegum card around the release of the first film.
