Everyone talks about the big CPU bump, but X1X hits native 4k alot of times with 6TF. What will an additional 4TF(at least) GPU grunt be allocated for if the CPU can cover the framerate improvements?
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So what’s a next-gen game look like?
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The main leaps forward might actually end up being in terms of not just graphics, but sense of scale in relation to visual detail. The reason Star Citizen looks so impressive that they show off in all the demos is because in co-op one player can be inside one ship in space, while another player can be walking around inside the detailed interior of an adjacent ship, and a third player might be walking around in a building in a city on the planet they're both orbiting. And SC does this with graphics that look like this (notice the characters in the cockpit):
It might mean more games that look like Arma 3 at max draw distance:
--All the buildings in that screenshot have interiors with no loading.
--The game is usually not playable at that draw distance setting because of its CPU utilization.
--The game tracks ballistics at that distance, last I heard the record for longest-distance sniper kill in multiplayer was 4km.
This may already be one example. The graphics alone don't look that far removed from say, Deus Ex Mankind Divided (at least in terms of detail, DXMD has lower budget animations). What's impressive is how it maintains that detail at such a vast scale.
But CDPR maintains CP77 is still going to come out on current gen.
What I don't like about these GPU demos is they look nothing like the experience of someone actually playing a game. These should at least try to do what that infamous Killzone demo did and try to mimic actual gameplay.
I just looked at this video again for the first time since E3, without YouTube compression, and honestly, I think the main advances here are just in animation and the camera. Those two things make TLOUII look a lot more cinematic, but on the technical end it doesn't look an entire console generation removed from Uncharted 4. Then again I never thought TLOU1 looked much better than Uncharted 3.
This is probably a representation of the PS4 Pro graphics, but I don't believe this game will be impossible to run on base PS4.
It might mean more games that look like Arma 3 at max draw distance:
What you should keep in mind when looking at this screenshot is:
--All the buildings in that screenshot have interiors with no loading.
--The game is usually not playable at that draw distance setting because of its CPU utilization.
--The game tracks ballistics at that distance, last I heard the record for longest-distance sniper kill in multiplayer was 4km.
This may already be one example. The graphics alone don't look that far removed from say, Deus Ex Mankind Divided (at least in terms of detail, DXMD has lower budget animations). What's impressive is how it maintains that detail at such a vast scale.
But CDPR maintains CP77 is still going to come out on current gen.
What I don't like about these GPU demos is they look nothing like the experience of someone actually playing a game. These should at least try to do what that infamous Killzone demo did and try to mimic actual gameplay.
I'm only half serious.
I just looked at this video again for the first time since E3, without YouTube compression, and honestly, I think the main advances here are just in animation and the camera. Those two things make TLOUII look a lot more cinematic, but on the technical end it doesn't look an entire console generation removed from Uncharted 4. Then again I never thought TLOU1 looked much better than Uncharted 3.
This is probably a representation of the PS4 Pro graphics, but I don't believe this game will be impossible to run on base PS4.
Remember when last gen everyone was saying we would never have games that looked as good as The Witcher 2 (two) on these consoles?
I don't know what next gen will look like being honest though, as for me, Ray Tracing is us hitting the Holy Grail right now. In a couple of years of software and hardware maturity, games with great RT solutions will be light-years ahead everything else.
With AMD being what next gen consoles will pack, and them launching so soon, I don't seem them having Ray tracing.
So I think it will be interesting for sure. But due to timing, we may get a next gen of consoles that right off the bat is dwarfed by RT games...
I can see next gens (Pro/X) level refresh, one that aimed to stave off the growing mid gen gulf between PC and Console, to be Sony and MS adding RT solutions once they are viable for console. They will both already be 4K consoles, so adding RT and having that be the new Pro/X Enhanced Patch instead of a bump in resolution, the added RT would be a huge step.
Going to be a crazy couple years for sure.
I don't know what next gen will look like being honest though, as for me, Ray Tracing is us hitting the Holy Grail right now. In a couple of years of software and hardware maturity, games with great RT solutions will be light-years ahead everything else.
With AMD being what next gen consoles will pack, and them launching so soon, I don't seem them having Ray tracing.
So I think it will be interesting for sure. But due to timing, we may get a next gen of consoles that right off the bat is dwarfed by RT games...
I can see next gens (Pro/X) level refresh, one that aimed to stave off the growing mid gen gulf between PC and Console, to be Sony and MS adding RT solutions once they are viable for console. They will both already be 4K consoles, so adding RT and having that be the new Pro/X Enhanced Patch instead of a bump in resolution, the added RT would be a huge step.
Going to be a crazy couple years for sure.
I think the delivery of the gameplay as whole in that demo puts it above and beyond Uncharted 4, although it's a limited representation of the game. I think The Last of Us had a worse anti-aliasing solution than Uncharted 3, but it was a more impressive game in a technical and artistic sense.
Animation, camerawork and lighting can make a crazy amount of difference in how a game looks though. It will not just be animation and camera that are improved over UC4. All of their systems and technologies have been overhauled and improved to the point that it appears as though they have been shooting for a next-gen target before they even had dev kits, e.g. how they're using motion matching, AI complexity, rigging etc. It will run absolutely fine on base PS4 like most recent exclusives, but it doesn't mean they can't raise the bar. I said a while back that Naughty Dog will be the dev to give us glimpses of what is in store for next-gen with this game, and we've had multiple teases that this is going to be the case. I think they'll deliver on that whether it's visuals or gameplay animation.
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I'm more interested in if there are any techniques that will help the development process go quicker. We're already at a stage where big games require 4+ years to be developed. I was kind of hoping new technology would maybe bring in processes that makes aspects of development more efficient or even helps reduce development time in some ways.
Or is this just some bullshit pipe dream hope I have with no realistic chance of happening?
Or is this just some bullshit pipe dream hope I have with no realistic chance of happening?
I remember most of the hemming and hawing coming from people with experience with PC gaming at the time, with the main claim being that the upcoming consoles were modest, that the PS3 and 360 being so dated in 2013+ enabled the PS4 and Xbox One to have the appearance of a generational leap despite not necessarily appearing to be extraordinarily powerful on paper. Of course, Sony and occasionally Microsoft have shown time and time again that specs don't tell anything close to the complete story on their own.
Lots of pessimistic posts in this thread. Seeing what the X can do with games like FH4 and RDR2 in 4K is incredible. A true next gen bump in GPU, RAM, and most importantly CPU is going to be quite the sight. I never expected a game like RDR2 to release this gen, even on a base PS4.
Something about this video irritates my eyes... not sure if it's the framerate or what. Weird.
I felt the same thing, probs the combination of framerate, motion blur, and depth of field.
Those games hit 4K because they are designed to run on the original Xbox One, which is pretty weak, once they start designing games to use Navi 10 as a base line & the GPU gets stressed by all the new fancy graphics, 4K might not come cheap, i wouldn't be surprised to see tons of games stick to 1440p as a base, especially at 60fps, the better CPU won't magically get you 60fps either when the GPU is bottlenecked, which most games are.
Anyone who thought that was a bit silly when Crysis from 2007 already looked better than UC3, outside of cutscenes. the forest area in UC3 looked quite bad, when screenshots leaked of it back in 2011 i thought it was UC1, i knew PS4 could do way better, the RAM limits of Gen 7 sucked.
People again are underestimating how much better next gen games will look. I dont know why people never learn. They wont have real time ray tracing and certain aspects of rendering tech will certainly fall short, but the overall visual impression will be far superior due to the fact that art assets will be designed for a much higher baseline. This higher baseline will also allow for much better fundamental engine choices from developers.
Well keep in mind people were convinced next gen was only going to have 2gb or RAM. So they figured as a starting point textures would be limited. But yeah in 2012 people weren't that optimistic. If consoles launch in 2020 we got a ways to go still.
yeah PS4 having 8GB was a surprise to be sure, GDDR5 wasn't so badly priced back then though like it is now. PS5 having more than 20GB's would surprise me, but would be nice.
Tons of games with a 10-12TF gpu hitting 1440p? I don't see that happening. Of course it might be ideal for some people, but they'll go with a middle ground of fancy graphics, upgraded over Xbox One games, but not so much that it goes that low. At the very least I think we'll see some better implementation of checkboard to hit "4k" along with new visual effects.
RTX 2080 Ti struggles with current gen games at Native 4K, add on top of that massively improved visuals, there will need to be a compromise somewhere.
This. Best guage we have currently.
It was also leaked footage where you immediately say this ain't current gen.
I don't think we've actually seen any games yet that are primarily targeting next-gen.
At best, some upcoming games are approaching a state last-gen gaming was in 2011, when games like Witcher 2, Crysis 2, Battlefield 3, and Medal of Honor Warfighter on PC scratched the surface of what became current gen console gaming, but they still had last-gen console versions. Go back and compare the PC versions of those games to launch PS4 games. We may be looking at the same difference here.
No doubt TLOUII will have advanced beyond Uncharted 4, I'm just saying I think Naughty Dog is still first and foremost developing a PS4 game. It'll likely have a PS5 version, but it'll always be a PS4 game that was enhanced for PS5, not a PS5 game they cut down for the PS4.
Maybe that depends on how you view TLOU1 though. I can see TLOU1, compared to Uncharted 3, made sacrifices in some areas so it could look better in other areas, but I actually think Naughty Dog was already scraping the ceiling of what the PS3 could accomplish with Uncharted 2. UC3 and TLOU1 improved upon it, but not to the point where I thought it belonged on a whole different console.
At best, some upcoming games are approaching a state last-gen gaming was in 2011, when games like Witcher 2, Crysis 2, Battlefield 3, and Medal of Honor Warfighter on PC scratched the surface of what became current gen console gaming, but they still had last-gen console versions. Go back and compare the PC versions of those games to launch PS4 games. We may be looking at the same difference here.
No doubt TLOUII will have advanced beyond Uncharted 4, I'm just saying I think Naughty Dog is still first and foremost developing a PS4 game. It'll likely have a PS5 version, but it'll always be a PS4 game that was enhanced for PS5, not a PS5 game they cut down for the PS4.
Maybe that depends on how you view TLOU1 though. I can see TLOU1, compared to Uncharted 3, made sacrifices in some areas so it could look better in other areas, but I actually think Naughty Dog was already scraping the ceiling of what the PS3 could accomplish with Uncharted 2. UC3 and TLOU1 improved upon it, but not to the point where I thought it belonged on a whole different console.
It'll depend in the engine too and alot of devs will go 30fps regardless.
Yes, very good example. The technologies used in that demo are ones that we have in today's games, but what makes it look better is that there is more being used, a lot more light sources etc
More of existing technologies.
Games have a budget of how much particles they can use, how much reflections, polycount etc
Having more power and ram will allow for more of these things.
Reflective surfaces everywhere is the next overused graphical effect, like how bloom was with the 7th gen consoles.
We still have this ridiculous shit being posted in 2019?
Stick with your 480i IQ.
I'm already shopping for an 8K set. 4K has been my standard for half a decade now.
Next gen consoles need to have 4K bare minimum, with an eye on targeting higher resolutions later on.
All joke aside, really hoping 4K/Amazeballs graphics for launch, and midgen refresh with Raytracing Support.
Pipe dream is having RT support at launch, but I don't see that happening.
Yeah and no... first two games i owned were KZ:SF and that gave a pretty good impression what Sony exclusives were going to look like but it wasnt fun tho. Other game was AC:BF and that game just looked like a higher resolution version of the PS3 version.
In terms of looks, I think the next logical step for huge graphical improvements is lighting. If the game isn't super stylized or simplified and have even a semi-realistic look, lighting makes all the difference. RTX (or whatever it evolves into) looks like it's going to stay for years to come, it just needs time to get optimized and, of course, affordable hardware to run it on end-user systems.
In terms of gameplay complexity, I really hope more hardware power gets put to good use in more complex AI systems. I'm drooling for the idea of a complex AI routine for, let's say, a stealth game. Beyond just "do this if this exists etc.". I'd rather have that advanced computing power put in believable, complex AI systems than having a mega-realistic look to every character.
In terms of gameplay complexity, I really hope more hardware power gets put to good use in more complex AI systems. I'm drooling for the idea of a complex AI routine for, let's say, a stealth game. Beyond just "do this if this exists etc.". I'd rather have that advanced computing power put in believable, complex AI systems than having a mega-realistic look to every character.
To be fair, before we knew the PS4's specs I was expecting a leap like we got from PS2-PS3 but ended up getting a much smaller leap. I think the graphics look great today but there hasn't been anything released so far which has blown me away like Crysis did back in 2007, Killzone 2 and Uncharted 2 in 2009 or God of War III in 2010. I hope next gen games look at least as good as this in terms of character models: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8iSrrKxE1Rs
Yep. I would love to see this implementing next-gen though I have no idea if it will be possible. The explosions in the Infiltrator demo are also pretty awesome. Again, would love to see similar next-gen.
4K/8K/12K No one cares when Fifa is all that makes number 1 each year.
Get on my level bro and realise VR is the tech that's More important than a crappy resolution boost for a TV/console
RT will be the new bloom from yester gen, Watch all the cheap alternatives we get in games to give us dem reflections
The extra 4TF+ GPU power could be used for higher graphical settings, better LOD, view distance, things like that.
Next gen games will be designed with the hardware in mind though, it won't be quite the same as taking a base XB1 / PS4 game and using the power to run the same game at a higher resolution and maybe a few extra graphical settings. Native 4k is demanding, even more so at 60fps, so I think next gen games might look similar to what we have now but will be far more detailed, like what Cyberpunk seems to be going for and will also have better IQ too, less jaggies / shimmering, better AA / AF ect, which can make a big difference to how a game looks, like the X has already shown on current games.
You don't know how he came to that conclusion, but then you do exactly the same by saying detroits primary characters are better...
I think its just a preference for art direction.
Certainly anyone hoping for a minimum 4k/60fps across all titles will be disappointed, same with anyone hoping for 8k/60fps in the generation after!
Yeah I think people get a little carried away with expectations, especially when it comes to some of the stuff I've seen for what some people think next gen specs will be. A lot will probably be disappointed with what we really get because of unrealistic expectations.
Ryzen will definitely allow for a lot more 60fps games though, that I have no doubt but there will still be games that run at 30fps if a developer wants to push graphics to the max. I expect most games will offer performance and graphics options too, so we will probably see most games running at different framerates and resolutions.
Next Gen may actually be one the biggest jumps we've ever seen, if you look on the VR side. But I agree with others that Last of Us 2's graphical fidelity will become the new minimum bar for developers pushing graphics. By the end of the generation, games will look nearly photorealistic. VR games might reach photorealism first, right at the end of the generation. Raytracing will be a thing of course.
And guys, guys! AUDIO IS GOING TO BE SOLVED! Holy crap has it been long, 20+ years and audio has gone nowhere. Next gen, we'll finally have lifelike 3D audio for VR using audio propagation algorithms, and VR headphones will be laughably superior to a pair of $80000 headphones, which I believe is the most expensive in the world.
Since we're getting some good CPU upgrades, I'd also expect improvements in physics and AI too, naturally. I doubt the industry will do much with AI though, but a few developers might take the plunge to move things forward.
And guys, guys! AUDIO IS GOING TO BE SOLVED! Holy crap has it been long, 20+ years and audio has gone nowhere. Next gen, we'll finally have lifelike 3D audio for VR using audio propagation algorithms, and VR headphones will be laughably superior to a pair of $80000 headphones, which I believe is the most expensive in the world.
Since we're getting some good CPU upgrades, I'd also expect improvements in physics and AI too, naturally. I doubt the industry will do much with AI though, but a few developers might take the plunge to move things forward.
Maybe there will be a mid-gen RT refresh. 4k with RT will require a massive memory bandwidth though I'm not sure the first iteration of the new gen will quite reach 4K as a standard similar to how some games run on 900p on the base systems or with reconstruction techniques and variable resolutions t maintain the framerate lock. These types of software solutions will not be done away with.