So what's up with people in the Star Wars universe not knowing about the Jedi or the Force or thinking it's stuff of legends when they should know?

Yasuke

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,221
50 million planets with their own cultures, news, histories, and events within their own sphere. Imagine your social media and news channels somehow covering the events to encompass a universe of that many planets?

People on earth can't even be bothered to keep up with whats going on in their own cities.
I’m not going to compare an entire galaxy’s peacekeeping force to people not knowing who their mayor is or whatever. I’m not doing it.
 

skeezx

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,800
it's pretty dumb but can be "explained away" with two decades of empire rule and a massive fucking galaxy with no discernible media conduit

on some random planet and being questioned on Jedi it's like interviewing some guy in singapore and asking him what he knows about the Clinton impeachment
 

CrichtonKicks

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,751
Lucas's conception of The Clone Wars actually makes this whole thing worse.

In ANH when Luke talks about his father and Obi-Wan fighting in the Clone Wars it's easy to imagine it was a conventional war fought by various armies with people from all over the galaxy participating.

Then when the prequels come along we see that 98% of the participants were clones of a single person, Jedi, and droids. Soooo if Jedi are a myth and/or unknown during the time of the OT who do people think fought in the Clone Wars?
 

zashga

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,112
Jedi are exceptionally rare even in the Prequel trilogy. There were probably hundreds of Jedi, mostly housed in one building on Coruscant. If you were one of the trillions of people living elsewhere in the galaxy, your odds of ever actually seeing a Jedi were around 0%.

Odds are pretty good I’ve already put more thought into this than Lucas or Abrams ever did.
 

Crossing Eden

Member
Oct 26, 2017
22,584
Jedi were the main peacekeeping force of the republic though.
And few ever actually saw them, there were so few of them that by the time tensions had reached a breaking point and war was inevitable they literally were "Ok so....we aren't an army. 👀 "


Even if they don't know a lot about the involvement in the Clone Wars, the most important treasure of Mandalore is a lightsaber that belonged to a Jedi. Did they forget that too the ten years between Rebels and The Mandalorian? The lightsaber was also in the posession of member of Death Watch for a long time.
People need to rewatch that scene in The Mandalorian. It's not portrayed as a "wait WTF?!" moment from the perspective of the elder. Only the Mando, who's not only a part of a different group than the one seen in Rebels, but also grew up in the jedi propaganda era.
 

Barrel Cannon

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
5,138
OP, you live in a world where tons of people believe that the twin towers attack was done by the American government and people in China that believe Tiananmen square never happened. It you asked this question a few years back I'd agree with you but these days I think it makes perfect sense
 

ObiWan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,199
Los Angeles
I can buy remote backwater planets not believing shit because there's remote backwater places in the US that doesn't believe shit and that's only a few hundred miles.
 

Couscous

Member
Oct 30, 2017
4,007
Tilburg
And few ever actually saw them, there were so few of them that by the time tensions had reached a breaking point and war was inevitable they literally were "Ok so....we aren't an army. 👀 "



People need to rewatch that scene in The Mandalorian. It's not portrayed as a "wait WTF?!" moment from the perspective of the elder. Only the Mando, who's not only a part of a different group than the one seen in Rebels, but also grew up in the jedi propaganda era.
Mando grew up during the propaganda era of the Empire, but his saviors (Death Watch) should know better and educate him.
 

Conkerkid11

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
6,378
Even assuming one doesn't "believe in the force", that doesn't even begin to tackle the complete lack of knowledge of the potential existence of "jedi", or even just knowledge of the word "jedi". These are people who haven't even heard of that word. Like, I don't believe in religions, but I know of their existence. It's not gonna completely blow my mind if you say the name of one or something.

They're aware of the Empire, but not aware of Vader or Palpatine? How in the fuck?

It's like the scene near the beginning of the first Star Wars film where the dude makes fun of the force right to Vader's face. Just a poorly written scene that doesn't make any sense. Is it his first day on the job or something?
 

Crossing Eden

Member
Oct 26, 2017
22,584
Mando grew up during the propaganda era of the Empire, but his saviors (Death Watch) should know better and educate him.
About an organization of people who're mostly dead and buried?

They're aware of the Empire, but not aware of Vader or Palpatine? How in the fuck?
Vader and Palpatine were public about being sith, ESPECIALLY not Palpatine. The amount of people who knew the truth about him could be counted on one hand.
 

Disclaimer

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,113
Lucas's conception of The Clone Wars actually makes this whole thing worse.

In ANH when Luke talks about his father and Obi-Wan fighting in the Clone Wars it's easy to imagine it was a conventional war fought by various armies with people from all over the galaxy participating.

Then when the prequels come along we see that 98% of the participants were clones of a single person, Jedi, and droids. Soooo if Jedi are a myth and/or unknown during the time of the OT who do people think fought in the Clone Wars?
That makes it better, not worse.

With most of the combatants being droids and clone troopers (with accelerated aging), it drastically reduces the number of people who would be in regular contact with Jedi. And being that the Jedi acted mainly as frontline generals because of their scarcity, most people aren't going to be aware of their deeds.

Anyway, not everyone forgot the Jedi, just the general populace. Ex-republic leadership (senators, older military like Tarkin, etc.) were very cognizant of them, and in the case of the Resistance, in regular contact with remnants (Obi-Wan, as referenced by Mon Mothma in Rogue One; Ahsoka, Kanan, and Ezra from Rebels). It was just necessarily secretive, on a need-to-know basis.
 

Tavernade

Member
Sep 18, 2018
1,354
This always felt like a weird thing for people to get caught up on, not only are there plenty of justifications but the justifications are genuinely interesting world building all their own instead of just tossed off excuses.

Lucas's conception of The Clone Wars actually makes this whole thing worse.

In ANH when Luke talks about his father and Obi-Wan fighting in the Clone Wars it's easy to imagine it was a conventional war fought by various armies with people from all over the galaxy participating.

Then when the prequels come along we see that 98% of the participants were clones of a single person, Jedi, and droids. Soooo if Jedi are a myth and/or unknown during the time of the OT who do people think fought in the Clone Wars?
There are a LOT of non-Clones/Droids involved, even without going into the TV series. AOTC has Geonosian forces as part of the Seperatists, ROTS has Wookiees and Utapauians as part of the Republic and Neimodians with the Seperatists. Not mentioned in the film, but Saw from Rogue One was introduced as a freedom fighter against the Seperatists as well. Worlds had standing armies that fought on either side alongside the Clones.
 

Yukari

Member
Mar 28, 2018
4,288
Thailand
It depends on the systems.
Core, Inner, and Middle still acknowledge about the Jedi-Stih Stuff.
But the outer rim and unknown regions are not much.
 

PanzerKraken

Member
Nov 1, 2017
4,550
I’m not going to compare an entire galaxy’s peacekeeping force to people not knowing who their mayor is or whatever. I’m not doing it.
Was a peacekeeping force for only a portion of the galaxy, folks keep missing the point that the jedi isolated themselves and only enforced within republic territory, more than half of it was not in the Republic sphere of control, and only a thousand something Jedi for millions of planets. In most cases the Jedi were nothing more than diplomats, they didn't just go to planets and did all kinds of magic tricks and chopped ppl left and right. And these jedi which few in their lifetimes ever saw are long gone for over 30+ years and the empire purged them from galactic records and history as best they can and via propaganda.

The jedi are gone, why would random nobody on planet xp57 give a damn what was going on with jedi decades ago who no longer matter and aren't in any relevant history books? I'm sure they got important things to worry about rather than ancient history. Maybe they heard of a jedi, but do they know what they really are? They clearly never saw one in their lifetime, the empire purged them from galactic records as best they could. Outside of historians lot of folks just would not give a shit cause it has nothing to do with them, just like our people dont care what is happening right now across the seas.
 

CrichtonKicks

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,751
That makes it better, not worse.

With most of the combatants being droids and clone troopers (with accelerated aging), it drastically reduces the number of people who would be in regular contact with Jedi. And being that the Jedi acted mainly as frontline generals because of their scarcity, most people aren't going to be aware of their deeds.

Anyway, not everyone forgot the Jedi, just the general populace. Ex-republic leadership (senators, older military like Tarkin, etc.) were very cognizant of them, and in the case of the Resistance, in regular contact with remnants (Obi-Wan, as referenced by Mon Mothma in Rogue One; Ahsoka, Kanan, and Ezra from Rebels). It was just necessarily secretive, on a need-to-know basis.
Except that The Clone Wars are a thing that people still remember during the OT. It was akin to saying someone fought in WW2 if you go back to the time when the OT was released. But if people remember the Clone Wars then they would remember that almost no one who wasn''t a clone or a Jedi actually fought in them. And those cases where they did fight they were fighting alongside the Jedi and saw them in action and could see their abilities.

It doesn't make sense the Empire Propaganda somehow made people forget the existence of Jedi but people still remember the major galaxy spanning war where the Jedi were the military leaders on one of the sides.

Nevermind that it was vilification of the Jedi that Palpatine used to seize control. A more consistent world building approach wouldn't have people forgetting the Jedi at the time of the OT. It would be people remembering and hating them. Imperial Propaganda should have made the word "Jedi" equivalent to Nazi at that stage.
 

Crossing Eden

Member
Oct 26, 2017
22,584
I’m not going to compare an entire galaxy’s peacekeeping force
About that......

👀

Except that The Clone Wars are a thing that people still remember during the OT. It was akin to saying someone fought in WW2 if you go back to the time when the OT was released. But if people remember the Clone Wars then they would remember that almost no one who wasn''t a clone or a Jedi actually fought in them. And those cases where they did fight they were fighting alongside the Jedi and saw them in action and could see their abilities.
Again, for every clone battalion you had one or two jedi leading them.

It doesn't make sense the Empire Propaganda somehow made people forget the existence of Jedi but people still remember the major galaxy spanning war where the Jedi were the military leaders on one of the sides.
The jedi themselves weren't even prominently advertising themselves as active participants in the war.
 

Crossing Eden

Member
Oct 26, 2017
22,584
Nevermind that it was vilification of the Jedi that Palpatine used to seize control. A more consistent world building approach wouldn't have people forgetting the Jedi at the time of the OT. It would be people remembering and hating them. Imperial Propaganda should have made the word "Jedi" equivalent to Nazi at that stage.
This is literally what happened.

Right the people actually in charge. Generals aren't super obscure. And unlike modern day Generals, Jedi are on the battlefield leading the charge in the thick of tings.
People rarely ever saw the actual people in charge, they just heard stories as life got worse and worse for them as a result of a war.
 

CrichtonKicks

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,751
This is literally what happened.
I know that. That's why I say it's inconsistent. Sometimes it's The Empire vilified the Jedi and made them enemy number one. Other times it's they erased them from peoples memories entirely. I don't think you can do both in 20 years. The former works well and is consistent with the time frame. Punt all of the "I don't believe the Jedi existed" and stick with "The Jedi were became corrupted and had to be put down."
 

Crossing Eden

Member
Oct 26, 2017
22,584
I know that. That's why I say it's inconsistent. Sometimes it's The Empire vilified the Jedi and made them enemy number one. Other times it's they erased them from peoples memories entirely.
This depends entirely on character perspective. Not every character in a narrative has the same knowledge. The story of the jedi when revealed to the audience is revealed to Luke, aka, a sheltered farm boy whose uncle specifically did everything he could to prevent Luke from learning about his heritage.
 

Disclaimer

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,113
They're aware of the Empire, but not aware of Vader or Palpatine? How in the fuck?

It's like the scene near the beginning of the first Star Wars film where the dude makes fun of the force right to Vader's face. Just a poorly written scene that doesn't make any sense. Is it his first day on the job or something?
The Emperor was a recluse after his ascension from Chancellor, and him being a force-wielding Sith called Darth Sidious wasn't exactly common knowledge. Vader was his errand boy enforcer, and few people were left alive after confrontations with him.

As for the dude making fun of Vader — he was clearly young for his position. He would have been a child when all traces of the Jedi were eradicated. Why would he put stock in the existence of alleged magic he's never seen, let alone by someone he perceives to be beneath him? He's an arrogant admiral who thinks his rank makes him safe because he's part of an authoritarian regime's military.

Then he's force choked. Now all he knows is to be fearful — not what the force is, or what it can really do. More frightened, whispered rumors.

Except that The Clone Wars are a thing that people still remember during the OT. It was akin to saying someone fought in WW2 if you go back to the time when the OT was released. But if people remember the Clone Wars then they would remember that almost no one who wasn''t a clone or a Jedi actually fought in them.

It doesn't make sense the Empire Propaganda somehow made people forget the existence of Jedi but people still remember the major galaxy spanning war where the Jedi were the military leaders on one of the sides.
I think you're both overestimating the level of information exchange in the Star Wars galaxy by comparing it to our (singular) world and the internet, as well as underestimating that there are enough people who know of the Jedi.

Relevant people do remember — people who saw and interacted with them. We see a bunch of this in Rogue One: Jyn's parents who give her a secret kyber crystal necklace; Saw Gerrera; Senator Mon Mothma; Chirrut and Baze. That's a lot of people who know from one person's perspective.

Laypeople for whom the Clone Wars were a distant economic clash between Republic and Separatists, however, do not. Especially not if they're raised within a fascist regime that actively suppresses mention of the Jedi, kidnaps force sensitives, and represses/enslaves dissidents. Yeah, they might have heard of "the Clone Wars," but it doesn't mean they know much beyond that—it's just some old conflict that teens like Luke in backwater places might romanticize in their boredom.
 

Crossing Eden

Member
Oct 26, 2017
22,584
Laypeople for whom the Clone Wars were a distant economic clash between Republic and Separatists, however, do not. Especially not if they're raised within a fascist regime that actively suppresses mention of the Jedi, kidnaps force sensitives, and represses/enslaves dissidents. Yeah, they might have heard of "the Clone Wars," but it doesn't mean they know much beyond that—it's just some old conflict that teens like Luke in backwater places might romanticize in their boredom.
Exactly, for regular people convos went more like this.



The common people in the SW universe weren't as aware of the jedi as the audience.
 

El Bombastico

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
12,179
Thinking about it, the most you usually see of The Force usually is telekineasis and super fast reflexes. In a galaxy with high technology, both of those could easily be chalked up to a gravity manipulation device of some kind and cybernetic implants like Vader or Grievous. For seeing the future, as Han put it "luck". In an era where you have stations that can blow up a planet and ships that can travel from one end of the galaxy to next, being able to lift a few rocks or dodge a few blaster shots might not seem that impressive.
 

Hamchan

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
3,736
Patrick Klepek brought this up in a recent Waypoint podcast that the Star Wars society have invented light speed travel but hilariously haven’t invented some form of mass media/communication.
 

The Silver

Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,699
Patrick Klepek brought this up in a recent Waypoint podcast that the Star Wars society have invented light speed travel but hilariously haven’t invented some form of mass media/communication.
That whole thing is down to the fact SWs is more fantasy and not sci-fi. It's not really planets and spaceships but villages/towns and horse carriages, bunch of insular places spread throughout the the galaxy aka the kingdom. People live in an almost medieval way where they are mostly ignorant to the goings on of the upper classes, just kids hearing stories of knights, sorcerers, and princesses but for the most part common people just try to get through the day and don't concern themselves with too much.
 

Crossing Eden

Member
Oct 26, 2017
22,584
Thank you


The amount of discussion about this merchandise factory of a series is just ridiculous.


Maybe the reason you’ll stop liking theses movies as time goes on, is cause you’re older! And this shits meant for preteens and teenagers
You realize that this series resonates with all ages right? People don't just suddenly reach an age where they have an epiphany and decide "Yea SW is bad and so is all media that is made with younger audiences in mind."