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Sober Era? Let's Stay Sober

sgtnosboss

Member
Nov 9, 2017
2,839
IL
Well I drank the other day, but I'm done now not drinking today. Told my wife finally how felt and admitted it to her. My liver hurts and I have acid reflux that is getting bad. I'm done. Here's to a new start I hope
 

Threadkular

Member
Dec 29, 2017
810
Got my 6 month chip this past week. 22 months since my last drink. Feeling great and haven't been this happy since high school.

I'm praying for all of you out there struggling right now.
 

sgtnosboss

Member
Nov 9, 2017
2,839
IL
made it through the weekend. My side still hurts, but I am generally feeling better when I wake up and other ways.
 

dietpepsi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,512
GTA (Toronto)
I have come to the realization that I am a ptoblem drinker and weed smoker and I need to quit both forever. Today is Day One of me doing neither.

I have joined a gym and am going to focus on exercise, healthy eating, and productivity in my career.

What should someone who has realized they have a problem and taken the first steps to sobriety keep in mind as they begin this new phase of their life? I need all the help I can get as I cannot afford traditional rehabilitation programs.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,077
I have come to the realization that I am a ptoblem drinker and weed smoker and I need to quit both forever. Today is Day One of me doing neither.

I have joined a gym and am going to focus on exercise, healthy eating, and productivity in my career.

What should someone who has realized they have a problem and taken the first steps to sobriety keep in mind as they begin this new phase of their life? I need all the help I can get as I cannot afford traditional rehabilitation programs.
AA/NA meetings
 

SolVanderlyn

Member
Oct 28, 2017
7,534
I have come to the realization that I am a ptoblem drinker and weed smoker and I need to quit both forever. Today is Day One of me doing neither.

I have joined a gym and am going to focus on exercise, healthy eating, and productivity in my career.

What should someone who has realized they have a problem and taken the first steps to sobriety keep in mind as they begin this new phase of their life? I need all the help I can get as I cannot afford traditional rehabilitation programs.
It's not easy and there will be days you crave going back to your old habits.

Personally, I find staying busy helps. The first thing I noticed is having a boatload of free time I used to spend being drunk or hungover, and it needed to be filled with something. Even just watching TV or listening to podcasts is a better alternative.
 

sgtnosboss

Member
Nov 9, 2017
2,839
IL
It's not easy and there will be days you crave going back to your old habits.

Personally, I find staying busy helps. The first thing I noticed is having a boatload of free time I used to spend being drunk or hungover, and it needed to be filled with something. Even just watching TV or listening to podcasts is a better alternative.
This for sure, so far I have noticed a lot more free time I need to be able to fill with other things. That and even the fixation of always having a drink in hand after work, I replaced with flavored water. Fills the fix without destroying my liver.
 

Threadkular

Member
Dec 29, 2017
810
This will be ignored by a lot, but it should be at least considered as a great way to fill time in early sobriety. It's a place to find IRL support for what you're going through which is absolutely necessary for coming out of the isolation of alcoholism. You can't do it alone - and online support is likely not going to cut it.

It's against every instinct, but at least start putting yourself in situations where you have the opportunity to ask another for help, so maybe you eventually will.
 

Chimpzy

Member
Dec 5, 2018
369
Quick question, I drink a single beer after rehearsal with the band once a week. More out of tradition than any want for alcohol.
Nothing else throughout the rest of the week. Is that still considered sober?
 

Threadkular

Member
Dec 29, 2017
810
Quick question, I drink a single beer after rehearsal with the band once a week. More out of tradition than any want for alcohol.
Nothing else throughout the rest of the week. Is that still considered sober?
There is no one answer to this question, though realize you may get a range of reactions from different people. The word means certain things to certain people, so it's a very personal thing (though not everyone views it that way).

My suggestion would be that if someone has an issue with what you consider to be sobriety (if that's what you consider it), then don't take it personally. Realize you don't know the other person's history (likely of pain) and where that person is coming from.

There's admittedly the issue of if you are a person in denial or on a slippery slope, but if you haven't had an issue with substances before it doesn't sound like it.

That said, if I could give my personal opinion (which I suggest you don't take personally :P), it's bothersome to me when people call themselves sober if they have no actual issue with substances and rather chose not to use them, but that's just cause of what the word means to me. It seems trendy to put #soberaf on Instagram or whatever, but I sure didn't choose this life (and yet the paradox is my life is better than ever).
 

Nicktals

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,130
Quick question, I drink a single beer after rehearsal with the band once a week. More out of tradition than any want for alcohol.
Nothing else throughout the rest of the week. Is that still considered sober?
What does it matter?

In situations where it would have mattered (outside of QoL/personal stuff) in my past, it would not be considered sober.

EDIT: I dont think you should worry about that label. You are exhibiting a control over alcohol that many in this thread dream of! If you have a history of abuse, just be very careful! Nice work and good luck!
 

Nicktals

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,130
I have a question and a rant: how many of you guys have experience with sponsors? I haven't drank in 39 months but just started AA again a couple months ago for future legal reasons (hearing officer denied a license request, citing lack of AA, despite me being told that wasn't a requirement beforehand.)

I dont like AA. I dont really like the religious nuts in my group. I also really dont like that I was asked not to share my story. But I'm back for a year and need to get a sponsor in order for my sobriety to be believed.

If you were in my shoes what would you do? Suck it up and ask someone from my home group, and pretend to care about the steps? Find a sponsor online who might be willing to help me with this sham? Something I haven't thought of?
 

Omegasquash

Member
Oct 31, 2017
3,058
Good night on Monday, not great but not terrible on Tuesday, good night last night. Setting alarms for basic stuff is really helpful, and has been helpful in getting me to get back onto the strength training wagon too.

I honestly don't care if it's "embarrassing" to set an alarm for stuff like "take your melatonin" (get ready for bed) or "brush your teeth" (don't eat or drink past this hour) or "lights out" (stop looking at your tablet, turn the lights off, and try to sleep).

It's a continued battle, but progress is progress. I've lost lots of strength that I gained a few years ago. While I suspect it'll come back at a speed that's not "slow" (re-acclimating to pushing hard and DOMS might take a couple of weeks), there's plenty of progress to be made. Very keen to continue to make more progress.
 
Oct 25, 2017
481
I have a question and a rant: how many of you guys have experience with sponsors? I haven't drank in 39 months but just started AA again a couple months ago for future legal reasons (hearing officer denied a license request, citing lack of AA, despite me being told that wasn't a requirement beforehand.)

I dont like AA. I dont really like the religious nuts in my group. I also really dont like that I was asked not to share my story. But I'm back for a year and need to get a sponsor in order for my sobriety to be believed.

If you were in my shoes what would you do? Suck it up and ask someone from my home group, and pretend to care about the steps? Find a sponsor online who might be willing to help me with this sham? Something I haven't thought of?
I mean your way got you here, why not try to find the other way work for a year?
 

Nicktals

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,130
I mean your way got you here, why not try to find the other way work for a year?
The other way was naltrexone on the Sinclair method. Its job is done! I have zero compulsion or desire to drink for over 3 years. But naltrexone gets 0 respect or recognition in a legal/license setting. Or an AA setting, as I've learned. So it doesnt really help me move forward over this obstacle, unfortunately.
 

Threadkular

Member
Dec 29, 2017
810
The other way was naltrexone on the Sinclair method. Its job is done! I have zero compulsion or desire to drink for over 3 years. But naltrexone gets 0 respect or recognition in a legal/license setting. Or an AA setting, as I've learned. So it doesnt really help me move forward over this obstacle, unfortunately.
From an outsider's perspective, the best advice since you have to do AA is to go in with an open mind and giving yourself the possibility of liking it.

If you're going in with a plan built upon a lies of fooling people and thinking others are "nuts" less than you, it's not going to work out well. Suggesting of developing a "pretend" intimate relationship with a human as your sponsor is kind of crazy (to say the least) - it speaks to the isolation of a dry drunk.

You have to do it, so give it a try. You might at least make some friends.
 

Nicktals

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,130
From an outsider's perspective, the best advice since you have to do AA is to go in with an open mind and giving yourself the possibility of liking it.

If you're going in with a plan built upon a lies of fooling people and thinking others are "nuts" less than you, it's not going to work out well. Suggesting of developing a "pretend" intimate relationship with a human as your sponsor is kind of crazy (to say the least) - it speaks to the isolation of a dry drunk.

You have to do it, so give it a try. You might at least make some friends.
I dont associate with religious people. I was brainwashed indoctrinated and abused by them for years.

I've been to AA for 3 years before this, I'm familiar with the program, and the religious nuts.

It doesnt work for me because it revolves around a higher power and miracles. It also doesnt work for me because I have no need to be there. I never think about drinking, and conservative religious folks are not the group that would accept me for me. I'm not there for me, I'm good. I got sober for me. I'm going to AA for a piece of paper. I'm going to AA to convince a hearing officer that I'm sober. Which I have been. For 39 months. I have no other reason to be there.

If you dont think going through the motions (which again, I dont want to do, and dont need to do (paperwork excludes)) is the wrong call, maybe you have a better idea? Rather than calling me a dry drunk, whatever that means.

My plan is probably just to try again after 6 months of AA (3 now), no sponsor, and hope a different officer has heard of naltrexone and the Sinclair method. A program that isn't trying to make me happy (I assume dry drunk means sober but sad or angry?) through a higher power and a spiritual awakening lol.

But yes, I'm fairly isolated lol. Just not mad at it. I like my life, and I love the scientific miracle of being freed of my compulsion.

EDIT: I'll add that if I am a dry drunk, or I'm sad, or angry, I would prefer to address those with a trained, licensed professional, as opposed to a random stranger armed with spirituality, prayer, and higher powers.

Also, being honest could work, at least online. I'm sure many others have been through this horse and pony show. Real problem of having AA and court so closely related. Maybe if we had universal healthcare our courts wouldn't rely on a baseless program with poor results, simply because it's free and accessible.
 
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Threadkular

Member
Dec 29, 2017
810
I dont associate with religious people. I was brainwashed indoctrinated and abused by them for years.

I've been to AA for 3 years before this, I'm familiar with the program, and the religious nuts.

It doesnt work for me because it revolves around a higher power and miracles. It also doesnt work for me because I have no need to be there. I never think about drinking, and conservative religious folks are not the group that would accept me for me. I'm not there for me, I'm good. I got sober for me. I'm going to AA for a piece of paper. I'm going to AA to convince a hearing officer that I'm sober. Which I have been. For 39 months. I have no other reason to be there.

If you dont think going through the motions (which again, I dont want to do, and dont need to do (paperwork excludes)) is the wrong call, maybe you have a better idea? Rather than calling me a dry drunk, whatever that means.

My plan is probably just to try again after 6 months of AA (3 now), no sponsor, and hope a different officer has heard of naltrexone and the Sinclair method. A program that isn't trying to make me happy (I assume dry drunk means sober but sad or angry?) through a higher power and a spiritual awakening lol.

But yes, I'm fairly isolated lol. Just not mad at it. I like my life, and I love the scientific miracle of being freed of my compulsion.
The worry is that feeling where "it's everyone else that is wrong" and never looking at yourself. It will just leave you all alone and pushing more and more people away from you. It's very common with alcoholics. It's my natural reaction as well. The suggestion is to try something different.

That stinks if the AA groups near you are so religious. I'm in a pretty affluent DC suburb and sometimes it seems the majority are either atheists/agnostics (lots of lapsed Catholics like myself - usually lots of pain there) or Yogis/"Goopers". Not exactly like me, but thats part of me not being isolated.

Anyway, the original suggestion was to consider taking a step outside yourself and taking a different approach. From the legal situation you have, setting aside your ego sounds like the easiest thing you could do for yourself.
 

Nicktals

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,130
The worry is that feeling where "it's everyone else that is wrong" and never trying to change your ways. It will just leave you alone. It's very common with alcoholics (probably people in general). That's my natural reaction as well. The suggestion is to try something different.

That stinks if the AA groups near you are so religious. I'm in a pretty affluent DC suburb and sometimes it seems the majority are either atheists/agnostics (lots of lapsed Catholics like myself) or Yogis/"Goopers". Not exactly like me, but thats part of me not being isolated.

Anyway, the original suggestion was to consider taking a step outside yourself and taking a different approach. From the legal situation you have, setting aside your ego sounds like the easiest thing you could do for yourself.
And setting aside ego in this case means? I'm back at AA for 3 months, despite not having any issues with alcohol in 39 months. And by no issues, I mean no temptation. No thought, no close calls.

Again, this is more a legal question. My drinking is good, my life is good. Just one missing piece from my previous, wasted life: a license in good standing. As someone sober for 39 months, how do I convince a hearing officer with an AA hard-on of that fact? While staying true to myself.

I thought going back to AA was putting my ego aside and bending over, so to speak. I'm not there for me, just them.

The thing I tried worked (Naltrexone, using the Sinclair method), I dont need to try new things, outside of one more court date.

I dont think everyone else is wrong. I know AA wasn't right for me. I'd much rather leave them be. I shouldn't be there. If it works for them, great. But if I do have to go, I'm going to stay true to myself.
 

Threadkular

Member
Dec 29, 2017
810
And setting aside ego in this case means? I'm back at AA for 3 months, despite not having any issues with alcohol in 39 months. And by no issues, I mean no temptation. No thought, no close calls.

Again, this is more a legal question. My drinking is good, my life is good. Just one missing piece from my previous, wasted life: a license in good standing. As someone sober for 39 months, how do I convince a hearing officer with an AA hard-on of that fact? While staying true to myself.

I thought going back to AA was putting my ego aside and bending over, so to speak. I'm not there for me, just them.

The thing I tried worked (Naltrexone, using the Sinclair method), I dont need to try new things, outside of one more court date.

I dont think everyone else is wrong. I know AA wasn't right for me. I'd much rather leave them be. I shouldn't be there. If it works for them, great. But if I do have to go, I'm going to stay true to myself.
Ok. I hope you find the suggestion you're looking for.
 

sgtnosboss

Member
Nov 9, 2017
2,839
IL
Good night on Monday, not great but not terrible on Tuesday, good night last night. Setting alarms for basic stuff is really helpful, and has been helpful in getting me to get back onto the strength training wagon too.

I honestly don't care if it's "embarrassing" to set an alarm for stuff like "take your melatonin" (get ready for bed) or "brush your teeth" (don't eat or drink past this hour) or "lights out" (stop looking at your tablet, turn the lights off, and try to sleep).

It's a continued battle, but progress is progress. I've lost lots of strength that I gained a few years ago. While I suspect it'll come back at a speed that's not "slow" (re-acclimating to pushing hard and DOMS might take a couple of weeks), there's plenty of progress to be made. Very keen to continue to make more progress.
I don't think there is anything embarrassing about alarms, keep going. good on you
 

Nicktals

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,130
It just sucks because you absolutely dont feel accepted if you're a sober atheist (atheist including higher powers and souls/spirits), who used naltrexone on the Sinclair method to get sober, but it's literally the only recognized option near me. There is a SMART meeting, but still, that's a peer led support group with untrained individuals and a system that as far as I know is equally as unproven. I can talk about struggles in my life, but 0 of them relate to alcohol, aside from not having a license. I feel like I either pass or say "things are good, 39 months with no temptation thanks to naltrexone using the Sinclair method" every time. But every reading and topic is god focused. What else can I say. (EDIT: wanted to add SMART is at least a program focused on empowering, not on defeat and helplessness, which it deserves a shoutout for! It's also secular, so no ending in the Lord's prayer, which is my least favorite part of AA.)

First step meetings are better, I can share lots of stories lol but my group doesnt seem to ever do them.

And same thing here on ERA, I don't know how to contribute to the thread other than repeating the scientific miracle that removed all compulsion and gave me power over my compulsion.

It sucked for the 6 years I bounced AA/sobriety court/jail/drinking (14 total years a drunk, but the last 6 were after trouble, knowing I had a compulsion, and seriously trying to stop). Trying my hardest, putting everything in the program. Nothing back but less time and more anxiety. I was resigned. I had given up. I finished the legal responsibilities then I tailored drinking to try and make it work. Only beer, after 6. I couldn't stop. As soon a thought of beer entered my mind, it was only a matter of time. Years of this failure. Dry drunk is a claim from the cult side of AA. If AA can turn people into dry drunks with good rates, it would be a smashing success. I would have killed to be a dry drunk. I wasn't going to kill myself or lose my family dry.

Then I saw a random post on a forum I had never been to before (not GAF, surprisingly, as it was the only forum i visited regularly) mention nalrexone. They didnt praise it, just said it worked for them (it wasn't even a thread on alcohol). A year after seeing that I finally put a plan to try naltrexone in motion, out of desperation. I was going to lose my family and life. The plan wasn't so easy. Had to see GP, then a referral, then 2 meetings with a psych. Then finally the prescription.

I didnt have much hope. I had been trying pills for years (depression, anxiety) with no results, I expected the same here.

So I finish work, grab my 18 pack of shit light, and settle in for the usual. Drink and smoke until passing out. But I take one pill 30 minutes before I crack the first one.

No warm fuzzies. No soothing feeling. I drink 2 beers. I'm not sick, I'm not feeling any different than normal, other than not buzzed/warm. But I had a beer in my hand, I wasn't drunk, and I didnt want to drink. Whoa. Worth mentioning here I NEVER drank responsibly before this. The only time i stopped prior to getting smooshed was when i got food poisoning. Otherwise every single beer led to drunk and passing out. This was huge.

I did that the next day with friends. Everyone else, 4 or 5 beers. Me? The drunk, who polished cases every single night, who never showed up to a social gathering without a tall boy--1.5 beers.

3 nights after, 1 beer.

Last time drinking, a wedding. 1 drink. May 22, 2016.

It took 4 pills to make me feel empowered, and to say "I just kicked alcohol and my compulsions ass. I'm cured!"

And these 1.5 beers werent ever the plan. Each of those nights I had a case and planned to do the same drunk dance. But I would literally forget about the second beer.

Such an insanely miraculous change, 4 total pills.

If anyone wants to hear how it went last time I had a sponsor just ask!

I think the most frustrating part was realizing how long it took for me to hear and learn about naltrexone, despite being in programs, seeing counselors, addiction specialists, court rehab officers, psychiatrists, psychologists, etc...not one single mention of the drug with the by far the best results for alcoholics. How is that possible? How did I only hear about it from a random forum poster years later? And even then, Docs in the US prescribe it incorrectly, as a once daily in perpetuity, completely missing the point. So to be told not to share this story in AA was a real eye opener. More people need to be shouting it at every meeting.

I'd hate for other prime candidates (still struggling drunks) to be kept ignorant of their best chance of a cure (the way I was) so that bunch of random religious nuts (higher power nuts if it makes anyone feel better lol) can try and convince me that the real reason I'm not as happy as them is because I haven't had a spiritual awakening.
 
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Threadkular

Member
Dec 29, 2017
810
Maybe your higher power right now is the officer and the legal system. I feel and appreciate your experience, but right now you are powerless to them if you want your license. The easiest way to resolve your situation is to accept you're not in control here and do what they require you to do.

I always related to the higher power stuff is admitting I'm not god. Living in my head in anger and resentment is just going to make my problems worse instead of actually doing what I need to do to resolve them.

"Would I rather be right or would I rather be happy?"
 

Nicktals

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,130
Maybe your higher power right now is the officer and the legal system. I feel and appreciate your experience, but right now you are powerless to them if you want your license. The easiest way to resolve your situation is to accept you're not in control here and do what they require you to do.

I always related to the higher power stuff is admitting I'm not god. Living in my head in anger and resentment is just going to make my problems worse instead of actually working to resolve them.
No I'm not. I can move. I can decide o dont need a license. Powerless isn't a thing. There are always options and choices, dont give up! However, I am going to AA, so I'm not sure what you're getting at. AA isn't a requirement (expressly stated). The hearing officer I got disagreed lol. Kind of luck of the draw, one probation officer deciding after 10 minutes. I just want to improve my chances. A sponsor would improve them farther.

I'll try again without a sponsor (but another 16 months sobriety and some AA sheet signatures) and then again with a sponsor who is on the situation (probably have to find online) if necessary.

Can you explain how an officer will remove my defects of character? Should I pray to him? How do people with these weak ones do steps 3, 5, 6, and 7?

I accept not being able to control every situation. Lots of serviceable cliches in AA. Learn to accept the things we cannot change, and the courage to change the things we can. I can't change being at their whim for a license in michigan. I can change the number of people aware of the stats, and the drug, and whether I show up.

I'm not god. That one is easy. No one is. Yet amazing things are still accomplished by determined, powerful individuals every day. I am one of them.

EDIT: oh shit! I have a neighbor who was going to AA andhas a breathalyzer on his car. Stopped AA and still drinking but I'm sure he would sponsor me (for hearing purposes, in real life I'm more of a sponsor to him. Hes still struggling a lot.)

Also, my wife is a doc, and she's now specializing in addiction medicine, and prescribes naltrexone regularly. She had never heard of it/seen it prescribed before me. That's a medical education failure there.

Also, there's a freaking documentary on naltrexone called "One Little Pill" from 2014 with Claudia Christian from Babylon 5. I didnt find out about that until a year sober! But I've never actually watched it. Think I will tonight! (https://www.onelittlepillmovie.com , apparently!)

6 minutes in, I'm already tearing up. This speaks to me. Loud.

Hearing people describe their difficulties in getting it is infuriating holy cow. For a safe, generic pill, OTC in some countries, just completely ridiculous. They are stating 78% success, and you can still drink if that's how you choose to do it. (Also part of the prob with messaging, ignorant people dont want to give drunks permission to drink, under any situation, even though it's been proven to work insanely well. Instead we heard young kids with DUIs to be preached at in a peer led, science free free-for-all with 0 proof of success or accountability for harm of dangerous advice. This should be the default, and EVERYONE should know about it. I'm gonna make a thread tonight or tomorrow, please watch that movie if you're curious and get a chance!
 
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Nicktals

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,130
Maybe your higher power right now is the officer and the legal system. I feel and appreciate your experience, but right now you are powerless to them if you want your license. The easiest way
"Would I rather be right or would I rather be happy?"
Missed that last bit in quotes:

I'd rather be both. While also not admitting to highly personal things I dont believe in the hope of a faith, spirit based miracle. Biological, science, evidence based solutions exist. In fact those same studies show that cravings grow over time. Why are we wringing our hands sending people to faith based, unsupported peer led recovery groups, when there is evidence, documented and supported, of INCREDIBLE recovery rates (70%+). Best guesses at AA are <10, but they eschew all responsibility by never allowing any studies to examine the effectiveness. Which kinda makes sense for a program that mentions god so much. How about we let science and medicine cure the drunks, and then AA can help the social ones get happy through god. Making drunks happy is not the goal. Their car crashes are just as deadly whether they were happy or sad. Giving as many people as possible access to a cure should be the goal. Keeping as many dangerous drunks from entering society as possible. It's my opinion AA, and other addiction self help groups, stand in the way of that. Putting the onus on the individual, rather than the disease. It also doesnt help that alcohol companies and pharma companies HATE it. Because money, of course. And provides courts a free option that again, puts the onus on the individual to somehow conquer a disease with god, praying, and miracles.

The pill could be given away for free. I spent 8 dollars (2 dollars a pill, 4 pills) to cure my compulsions. If you want AA to be a faith based self help group, fine. But it has absolutely no place alongside an actual science based solutions like the Sinclair method.

Can I ask why you assume I'm not happy, based on me not wanting to go to a faith based recovery program after already being sober 3+ years? Who would be happy to feel forced into a program that runs counter to their belief structure (no spirit/higher power) could only dream of having the results that the program I did use has? I'm not happy about going to AA, but I am exceptionally happy with my life now that I'm dry. My life is stable, predictable, and full of love. Still progress to be made, but that's what professionals are for!


I'll take happy and right every day lol.
 
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Oct 25, 2017
481
I mean, you're basically a big book thumper but instead for a pill. So, I think you're just the other side of the equation, sure you're spouting out a Truth. Both can coexist.
 

Threadkular

Member
Dec 29, 2017
810
Missed that last bit in quotes:

I'd rather be both. While also not admitting to highly personal things I dont believe in the hope of a faith, spirit based miracle. Biological, science, evidence based solutions exist. In fact those same studies show that cravings grow over time. Why are we wringing our hands sending kids to faith based, unsupported peer led recovery groups, when there is evidence, documented and supported, of INCREDIBLE recovery rates (70%+). Best guesses at AA are <10, but they eschew all responsibility by never allowing any studies to examine the effectiveness. Which kinda makes sense for a program that mentions god so much.

The pill could be given away for free. I spent 8 dollars (2 dollars a pill, 4 pills) to cure my compulsions. If you want AA to be a faith based self help group, fine. But it has absolutely no place alongside an actual science based solutions like the Sinclair method.

Can I ask why you assume I'm not happy, based on me not wanting to go to a faith based recovery program after already being sober 3+ years? Who would be happy to feel forced into a program that runs counter to their belief structure (no spirit/higher power) could only dream of having the results that the program I did use has? I'm not happy about going to AA, but I am exceptionally happy with my life now that I'm dry. My life is stable, predictable, and full of love. Still progress to be made, but that's what professionals are for!

I'll take happy and right every day lol.
I didn't mean you weren't happy. It's a general saying to be used as a way of living to make life less difficult and hopefully bring about more happiness in general. Please do not take these things so literally and personally.

Anyway, please just don't do the thing where you "pretend" with a sponsor. That's incredibly manipulative of a person who is trying to help you and may end up caring about you. Since youre going to AA, be honest about your situation in the rooms and share how your feelings and experiences have been negative. Someone will likely still sponsor you and meet whatever requirements you need, just be respectful.
 

Nicktals

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,130
I didn't mean you weren't happy. It's a general saying to be used as a way of living to make life less difficult and hopefully bring about more happiness in general. Please do not take these things so literally and personally.

Anyway, please just don't do the thing where you "pretend" with a sponsor. That's incredibly manipulative of a person who is trying to help you and may end up caring about you. Since youre going to AA, be honest about your situation in the rooms and share how your feelings and experiences have been negative. Someone will likely still sponsor you and meet whatever requirements you need, just be respectful.
That was only the plan to acquire a limited resource to satisfy bureaucratic demands.

I would much prefer to procure it with honesty. No one would be my sponsor though, is my fear. Why would they? I'm happily sober, have been for years, dont need help (and certainly not from random people) and dont have interest in the steps. Moot point, as I have a drunk neighbor who I know would be delighted to do it. But it's a difference of misrepresenting to a sponsor, or lying to a court, so not cut and dry.

Oh, and my last sponsor, I called every day for 43 days. The last 3 calls he made the same comment "wow, you really are gonna call every day, huh?". So I waited for him to call me. This was midway through step 4. Haven't talked to him since. For someone with anxiety and abandonment issues, this was a smashing success, obviously lol. This was 4 years ago. I found naltrexone, and relief, shortly after. Thank god for asshole sponsors or I might still be working that step lol.

The way I always heard the phrase "rather happy than right" was more a justification for unexamined beliefs/conclusions/delusions. "I'm happy being ignorant, so why change." Which does not mesh with me lol.

Forgot to mention, I was told not to share my experiences. No pill talk. There's also ~8 people in my group, and they are all older white guys who talk about the military. The rest are sheet seekers and not in a position to sponsor. Just got back from a meeting, the topic was following the big book to the letter.
 
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Nicktals

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,130
I mean, you're basically a big book thumper but instead for a pill. So, I think you're just the other side of the equation, sure you're spouting out a Truth. Both can coexist.
Ok. So if 100 people pray to be cured, and 10 are. Then 100 are given a placebo and 10 are, then 100 are given a pill and 75 are, which should society be championing? Keep in mind more success on this front = less death, less abuse, less suicide.

I like my life and who I was, I just didnt like the compulsion to drink and how I acted when drunk.

AA sells faith to the vulnerable.

This is a terrible both sides lol. Like praying and peer reviewed science are on equal footing. They arent. AA is not any more successful than white knuckling or placebos. Peer led support groups can have a place, but they should never be used in isolation.

Thumping a book that improves society and saves lives with a simple pill is not equal to thumping a book that has no scientific basis, low success rates, and is based on hope and miracles and requires lots of time and effort. It also acts as a roadblock to progressive stances towards addiction recovery.

But yes, I'll proselytize miracle pills. Vaccines too!
 
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Oct 25, 2017
481
I actually had been looking for an example of being sober and being sober with serenity and how those 2 things are different and I think I found it.
 

Nicktals

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,130
I actually had been looking for an example of being sober and being sober with serenity and how those 2 things are different and I think I found it.
Lol. Attacking others for a perceived lack of serenity doesnt seem very serene.

Any interest in watching the documentary or reading the studies?

People can be sober, happy, and still manic/aggressuve/ whatever other characteristic has led you to believe I'm not as serene as I would be with a higher power. Unless there's a special prayer to get that defect lifted?

Can you think of other situations where people suffering and putting themselves and others at risk are only told to attend peer-led support groups? Its bizarre.

The program exists because no better cure existed. We now have a better cure, a better treatment. It's a devastating disease that no one knew how to deal with. He (Bill W) never allowed it to be tested or studied. It spread through desperation. (I'll point out here that Bill would have been first in line for naltrexone. Dude was pumping niacin and lsd looking for a cure. He was a fan of science. His jaw woulda hit the fucking floor drinking and not even getting buzzed lol.) It's also a program that blames the addict for not curing their own disease with a spiritual awakening. "Rarely have we seen an addict...". Bullshit. Courts love that aspect though. By abstaining without retraining, you're causing the compulsion to grow and grow (what led to Sinclair's breakthrough was observing that cravings actually increased the longer alcohol wasn't consumed), then cutting them free back into society. It's a recipe for disaster, as we witness every year.

Naltrexone still necessitates a will to stop drinking. I have power over it, my brain in regards to booze has been retrained to a pre addiction state, that's how the science works. At any point I can choose to not take naltrexone and drink to start strengthening the addiction bonds again, but why would I, now that my compulsion has been reset?

Why did you ignore the meat of my post? Do you not care what percentage of people trying to get sober succeed? I do. The victims do.

But yes, I'm familiar with the sell of "you won't know true peace until you accept your lord and savior into your soul." Your statement sounds no different. True serenity, lol.

"pharmacological extinction—the use of an opiate blocker to turn habit-forming behaviors into habit-erasing behaviors. The effect returns a person’s craving for alcohol to its pre-addiction state."

Basically, think of pavlov's dog. Ring the bell, give food. Eventually dog salivates when the bell rings even in the absence of food. Naltrexone/TSM is that in reverse. Ringing the bell and not giving food. After a few times, the dog stops salivating. You have reset that connection in his brain. Naltrexone let's you drink (ring) without the payoff (buzz). Couple times, your brain is rewired.

Just got back from a meeting. Topic was following big book to the letter. Ugh.
 
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Awesome Kev

Member
Jan 10, 2018
1,262
Daytona Beach
Lol. Attacking others for a perceived lack of serenity doesnt seem very serene.

Any interest in watching the documentary or reading the studies?

People can be sober, happy, and still manic/aggressuve/ whatever other characteristic has led you to believe I'm not as serene as I would be with a higher power. Unless there's a special prayer to get that defect lifted?

Can you think of other situations where people suffering and putting themselves and others at risk are only told to attend peer-led support groups? Its bizarre.

The program exists because no better cure existed. We now have a better cure, a better treatment. It's a devastating disease that no one knew how to deal with. He never allowed it to be tested or studied. It spread through desperation.

Naltrexone still necessitates a will to stop drinking. I have power over it, my brain in regards to booze has been returned to a pre addiction state, that's how the science works. At any point I can choose to start strengthening the addiction bonds, but why would I, now that my compulsion has been reset?

Why did you ignore the meat of my post? Do you not care what percentage of people trying to get sober succeed? I do. The victims do.

But yes, I'm familiar with the sell of "you won't know true peace until you accept your lord and savior into your soul." Your statement sounds no different. True serenity, lol.
Yo dood, congrats on the recovery and good luck with the AA situation, sounds like some BS you just got to get through, but I feel like maybe you’re getting a little too on the defensive and bringing bad vibes into the topic?

That’s not to tell you to leave or anything but this has really been more a place for supporting each other in our paths to sobriety, not debating. I feel like the other two posters were trying to offer you some helpful responses, and if you didn’t like what they had to offer then that’s fine, but this really isn’t the topic for debate and argument .

We’re all in here trying to support each other and keep positive vibes (wether you’re an atheist, agnostic or believer, whatever) and sometimes someone may say something that you don’t 100% agree with or want to hear, but it’s always in good faith and you should just say thank you and move on. If you can’t do that then this may not be a good topic for you.

Any other topic on here and I’d say yeah debate and argue till your fingers bleed, but Sober Era really isn’t that kind of place.
 

Nicktals

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,130
Yo dood, congrats on the recovery and good luck with the AA situation, sounds like some BS you just got to get through, but I feel like maybe you’re getting a little too on the defensive and bringing bad vibes into the topic?

That’s not to tell you to leave or anything but this has really been more a place for supporting each other in our paths to sobriety, not debating. I feel like the other two posters were trying to offer you some helpful responses, and if you didn’t like what they had to offer then that’s fine, but this really isn’t the topic for debate and argument .

We’re all in here trying to support each other and keep positive vibes (wether you’re an atheist, agnostic or believer, whatever) and sometimes someone may say something that you don’t 100% agree with or want to hear, but it’s always in good faith and you should just say thank you and move on. If you can’t do that then this may not be a good topic for you.

Any other topic on here and I’d say yeah debate and argue till your fingers bleed, but Sober Era really isn’t that kind of place.
Not a prob, I'm out. Is there a way to block threads? I dont think I was given good vibes, I was immediately called a dry drunk which is a pure AA insult lol.

Just seems weird that the best available cure for achieving sobriety has no talk in the sobriety thread. Seriously, one other mention other than mine. It's a frustrating bizarro world feeling when religion and tradition stand in the way of progress and saving TONS of lives. And it's so incredibly easy, and with a truly remarkable immediate effect (the kind of thing addicts love noticing!)

I just dont find encouraging people to attend AA is as much support as everyone in here wishes it was, and all available evidence backs that up. It's as effective and supportive as telling them "just dont drink forehead."

Sorry for harping on it so much.

Should this be an ErAA: One Day at a Time OT maybe? Definitely wouldn't have entered then!
 
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Awesome Kev

Member
Jan 10, 2018
1,262
Daytona Beach
Not a prob, I'm out. Is there a way to block threads? I dont think I was given good vibes, I was immediately called a dry drunk which is a pure AA insult lol.

Just seems weird that the best available cure for achieving sobriety has no talk in the sobriety thread. Seriously, one other mention other than mine. It's a frustrating bizarro world feeling when religion and tradition stand in the way of progress and saving TONS of lives. And it's so incredibly easy, and with a truly remarkable immediate effect (the kind of thing addicts love noticing!)

I just dont find encouraging people to attend AA is as much support as everyone in here wishes it was, and all available evidence backs that up. It's as effective and supportive as telling them "just dont drink forehead."

Sorry for harping on it so much.

Should this be an ErAA: One Day at a Time OT maybe? Definitely wouldn't have entered then!
Yes, there is an option up top to ignore thread. It’s just above the OP in a drop down box on my mobile.

Good luck with everything!
 

Nicktals

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,130
Yes, there is an option up top to ignore thread. It’s just above the OP in a drop down box on my mobile.

Good luck with everything!
Thanks! Is that a new feature?? I think I'll pop in again after I read through the rest of the thread and I hit my day (22nd). I at least want to pop in once a month-ish to name drop it. Afterall, forums and social media is what led most people I've heard from to naltrexone. Unfortunately I feel it's still pretty necessary.

I'll definitely take your words to heart and work on framing what I have to say neutrally or positively as opposed to antagonizing other options if I post here again though. And I just won't mention my bullshit situation with AA, as it seems a bit too prickly. Sorry again for the disruption.
 

Awesome Kev

Member
Jan 10, 2018
1,262
Daytona Beach
Thanks! Is that a new feature?? I think I'll pop in again after I read through the rest of the thread and I hit my day (22nd). I at least want to pop in once a month-ish to name drop it. Afterall, forums and social media is what led most people I've heard from to naltrexone. Unfortunately I feel it's still pretty necessary.

I'll definitely take your words to heart and work on framing what I have to say neutrally or positively as opposed to antagonizing other options if I post here again though. And I just won't mention my bullshit situation with AA, as it seems a bit too prickly. Sorry again for the disruption.
It’s all good brother! Drop by and share anytime! 😊