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What tendency/ideology do you best align with?

  • Anarchism

    Votes: 125 12.0%
  • Marxism

    Votes: 86 8.2%
  • Marxism-Leninism

    Votes: 79 7.6%
  • Left Communism

    Votes: 19 1.8%
  • Democratic Socialism

    Votes: 423 40.6%
  • Social Democracy

    Votes: 238 22.8%
  • Other

    Votes: 73 7.0%

  • Total voters
    1,043

TheModestGun

Banned
Dec 5, 2017
3,781
who are these people who "would rather have Trump than Warren in the general," exactly? That isn't a sentiment I've heard from anyone associated with DSA, and I hope no one is interpreting their decision not to endorse a non-socialist candidate in the general election that way.

if that's just a hyperbolic way of saying that some of the criticism of Warren from the left is overblown, then fair enough, I won't really disagree there
Well personally I'm not saying it's an en masse group of people, I'm just saying that I've seen enough people on rose twitter saying that they won't vote for Warren in the general and that Bernie is the only case that they will vote that it is somewhat concerning.
 

TheHunter

Bold Bur3n Wrangler
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
25,774
Yeah, that's a pretty bad mischaracterization of the resolution the DSA passed at the convention, unless you think it makes sense for a socialist organization to endorse a non-socialist candidate in the general election just because he/she isn't Trump.
When one of the non solcialist candidates is a progressive, aligns with alot of your goals, is a friend to said candidate it comes off as taking your ball and going home because your guy might not win.

And again, the whole building bridges thing. Which is a legit criticism for the DSA and leftist at large. By all means be critical and ask us other members of the left to be better but don't be a dick about it.
 

Snowy

Banned
Nov 11, 2017
1,399
who are these people who "would rather have Trump than Warren in the general," exactly? That isn't a sentiment I've heard from anyone associated with DSA, and I hope no one is interpreting their decision not to endorse a non-socialist candidate in the general election that way.

if that's just a hyperbolic way of saying that some of the criticism of Warren from the left is overblown, then fair enough, I won't really disagree there

It's a little overblown, but hundreds of years of liberal betrayal of egalitarian politics when they finally cross the line of personal or class convenience is certainly an understandable heuristic, even if not a universally applicable one. She's giving off strong Marquis de Lafayette energy, if ya catch my drift.
 

Deleted member 18360

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,844
You tend to get more bees with honey not vinager. And more bees means more supports.

I mean sure, but that can be trotted out at like every possible point of division real or imagined. Maybe my frame of reference for this is miscalibrated, because I'm kind of just imagining glib tweets, is that what you're thinking of? Because to me that doesn't seem uncharacteristic of twitter in general. And if anything I'd say one of the most common and unifying political attitudes is some kind of skepticism of establishment politics, to the point that that's one of the few offhand remarks you could make to a total stranger (something to the effect of 'politicians are crooks'), whether they be young or old or like any other cohort that can be thought of, and expect virtually no controversy. Disenfranchisement is kinda the norm and this being the status quo we're clinging to feeds into some skeptical thinking that maybe centrists don't really want democracy after all. I mean we know the right doesn't...
 
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Oct 25, 2017
6,123
Brooklyn, NY
Well personally I'm not saying it's an en masse group of people, I'm just saying that I've seen enough people on rose twitter saying that they won't vote for Warren in the general and that Bernie is the only case that they will vote that it is somewhat concerning.

I'm sure that such individuals exist, but handwringing about them is like blaming Jill Stein voters for 2016. I would also guess that a lot of them understand how the electoral college works and don't live in swing states.

it just seems like a case of misplaced priorities that gets awfully close to left-punching "vote blue no matter who" rhetoric from liberals still enraged about Susan Sarandon for my taste
 

TheModestGun

Banned
Dec 5, 2017
3,781
I'm sure that such individuals exist, but handwringing about them is like blaming Jill Stein voters for 2016. I would also guess that a lot of them understand how the electoral college works and don't live in swing states.

it just seems like a case of misplaced priorities that gets awfully close to left-punching "vote blue no matter who" rhetoric from liberals still enraged about Susan Sarandon for my taste
Yeah and that's totally understandable. I think it's generally probably overblown as well, I just hope that we don't end up with 4 more years of Trump, and I can appreciate that people are feeling anxious about people saying they won't vote. I'm not certain this country and the world can take it.
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,123
Brooklyn, NY
When one of the non solcialist candidates is a progressive, aligns with alot of your goals, is a friend to said candidate it comes off as taking your ball and going home because your guy might not win.

And again, the whole building bridges thing. Which is a legit criticism for the DSA and leftist at large. By all means be critical and ask us other members of the left to be better but don't be a dick about it.

the first letter of DSA's acronym doesn't refer to the Democratic Party. They'll still be working to get plenty of people running on the Dem line elected next November, just not ones who don't identify as socialists.

If people would rather support progressive organizations that choose to align themselves more closely with Democrats, that's fine and they don't exactly lack for options. it's not a niche that needs filling
 

TheHunter

Bold Bur3n Wrangler
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
25,774
the first letter of DSA's acronym doesn't refer to the Democratic Party. They'll still be working to get plenty of people running on the Dem line elected next November, just not ones who don't identify as socialists.

If people would rather support progressive organizations that choose to align themselves more closely with Democrats, that's fine and they don't exactly lack for options. it's not a niche that needs filling
My point is they would be better served not being sticks in the mud.

And Democrats have socialists in their ranks. It's a umbrella term, not an exclusive party.
 

Snowy

Banned
Nov 11, 2017
1,399
I'm sure that such individuals exist, but handwringing about them is like blaming Jill Stein voters for 2016. I would also guess that a lot of them understand how the electoral college works and don't live in swing states.

it just seems like a case of misplaced priorities that gets awfully close to left-punching "vote blue no matter who" rhetoric from liberals still enraged about Susan Sarandon for my taste

Dems will always blame the thin caste of politically aware people who don't tow their line because they cannot deal with the fact that their actual margin of victory is way thinner and more fragile than it should be. They've completely ceded that 40+% of the country who don't participate - either because their political education is poor or because they've done the correct calculus that they're just going to be struggling through the Boom/Bust cycle regardless of who's in power, and even if things are worse under one party, they're not worse enough to be worth pulling their attention away from their daily toils - cannot be activated in any way.

Note that I'm not accusing that poster of this mentality, but that paranoia has seeped its way so firmly into the Left and Center psyche in America that it takes on an outsized place in discussion, relative to its actual importance.
 

TheHunter

Bold Bur3n Wrangler
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
25,774
Dems will always blame the thin caste of politically aware people who don't tow their line because they cannot deal with the fact that their actual margin of victory is way thinner and more fragile than it should be. They've completely ceded that 40+% of the country who don't participate - either because their political education is poor or because they've done the correct calculus that they're just going to be struggling through the Boom/Bust cycle regardless of who's in power, and even if things are worse under one party, they're not worse enough to be worth pulling their attention away from their daily toils - cannot be activated in any way.

Note that I'm not accusing that poster of this mentality, but that paranoia has seeped its way so firmly into the Left and Center psyche in America that it takes on an outsized place in discussion, relative to its actual importance.
My problem with this analysis is it basically means those 40% of inactive voters are complete sociopaths then.

We have kids in cages, Muslim bans, complete abandonment of allies and a lawless president. If this doesn't make you care enough I question your morals badly.

It also kinda makes it sound like a case of "What are you gonna do for me?"
 

Deleted member 18360

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,844
My point is they would be better served not being sticks in the mud.

And Democrats have socialists in their ranks. It's a umbrella term, not an exclusive party.

You're right, but it seems like a product of circumstance. I mean if you think you have some accurate model of class struggle or whatever that has historically been sidelined, then you might be more inclined to act like a petulant Cassandra about a bunch of things? It's unfortunate and not very skillful, but when looking at the masses of people, it seems inevitable that some people will say things like that.
 

TheHunter

Bold Bur3n Wrangler
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
25,774
You're right, but it seems like a product of circumstance. I mean if you think you have some accurate model of class struggle or whatever that has historically been sidelined, then you might be more inclined to act like a petulant Cassandra about a bunch of things? It's unfortunate and not very skilled, but when looking at the masses of people it seems inevitable that some people will say things like that.
Perhaps, but it only justifies the other left wing groups to not like you very much.

Especially if you keep purposely tripping them up.
 

Snowy

Banned
Nov 11, 2017
1,399
My problem with this analysis is it basically means those 40% of inactive voters are complete sociopaths then.

We have kids in cages, Muslim bans, complete abandonment of allies and a lawless president. If this doesn't make you care enough I question your morals badly.

It also kinda makes it sound like a case of "What are you gonna do for me?"

Humans are self-centered beings, and this is heightened under capitalism. If the kind of selflessness and awareness you are invoking here were commonplace, we would not be dealing with the problems we are, nor would one party be running all but explicitly on harm reduction as a political ethos.
 

GiantBreadbug

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,992
My problem with this analysis is it basically means those 40% of inactive voters are complete sociopaths then.

We have kids in cages, Muslim bans, complete abandonment of allies and a lawless president. If this doesn't make you care enough I question your morals badly.

It also kinda makes it sound like a case of "What are you gonna do for me?"

Divorcing this particular thread of discussion from the DSA-Warren thing because it's important to talk about and also I will be voting for her if Bernie isn't the nom:

My distaste for any voter shaming like this is rooted in being violently aware of what it's like for the people worst off economically in the US. These people not only have hurdle after hurdle placed between them and their vote, they're (intentionally) pushed farther and farther away from the consequences of their leaders' actions to the point that they feel separate from them.

They're living day-to-day, paycheck-to-paycheck, constantly anxious about keeping a roof over their head, having enough nutritious food and clean water, avoiding any medical situation that would ruin them financially (or dealing with such a reality), raising children, working some shitty minimum-wage (or adjacent) job. I don't see how the psyche of this type of non-voter can be so invisible to people who participate in shaming them.

Hell, "catching more flies with honey than vinegar" applies tremendously to this precise situation. Telling people wallowing in helplessness on a daily basis who see no way out that they're sociopathic for mentally succumbing to the unrelenting socioeconomic pressure of living under capitalism is not going to have the effect of getting them to vote. You can highlight the repulsiveness of Trump's administration, but you're going to need to also have a convincing case that material conditions are going to improve for those people against whom this system is waging outright war.

So yes, these people (rightfully) are asking "What are you gonna do for me?" And the answer they get, regardless of posturing and rhetoric, is always "Absolutely fucking nothing."
 

TheHunter

Bold Bur3n Wrangler
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
25,774
My distaste for any voter shaming like this is rooted in being violently aware of what it's like for the people worst off economically in the US. These people not only have hurdle after hurdle placed between them and their vote, they're (intentionally) pushed farther and farther away from the consequences of their leaders' actions to the point that they feel separate from them.

They're living day-to-day, paycheck-to-paycheck, constantly anxious about keeping a roof over their head, having enough nutritious food and clean water, avoiding any medical situation that would ruin them financially (or dealing with such a reality), raising children, working some shitty minimum-wage (or adjacent) job. I don't see how the psyche of this type of non-voter can be so invisible to people who participate in shaming them.

Hell, "catching more flies with honey than vinegar" applies tremendously to this precise situation. Telling people wallowing in helplessness on a daily basis who see no way out that they're sociopathic for mentally succumbing to the unrelenting socioeconomic pressure of living under capitalism is not going to have the effect of getting them to vote. You can highlight the repulsiveness of Trump's administration, but you're going to need to also have a convincing case that material conditions are going to improve for those people against whom this system is waging outright war.
Well it's a good thing us progressives want to do both! :)
 

GiantBreadbug

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,992
Well it's a good thing us progressives want to do both! :)

Right! So to bring it back to Warren, I'd say the number of people who are truly Bernie or Bust that she can't get oughtn't be a priority for outreach or worry. If we can focus on bringing those disaffected folks into the process through either candidate, I would wager most people energized in that way will most certainly be in it for the long haul, regardless of who the nominee is.
 

TheHunter

Bold Bur3n Wrangler
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
25,774
Right! So to bring it back to Warren, I'd say the number of people who are truly Bernie or Bust that she can't get oughtn't be a priority for outreach or worry. If we can focus on bringing those disaffected folks into the process through either candidate, I would wager most people energized in that way will most certainly be in it for the long haul, regardless of who the nominee is.
Sounds like...a plan.
 

Pekola

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,507
My problem with this analysis is it basically means those 40% of inactive voters are complete sociopaths then.

We have kids in cages, Muslim bans, complete abandonment of allies and a lawless president. If this doesn't make you care enough I question your morals badly.

It also kinda makes it sound like a case of "What are you gonna do for me?"

Things have been bad for hundreds of years, but NOW it's expedient that we all care? A lot of people, should Warren win, will go back to their sheltered existences and breathe a sigh of relief.

Meanwhile, a lot of us will still be fighting.
THAT'S the problem here. Go preach to THAT crowd. Not to the minorities that have been fighting for better conditions since forever; not to the disillusioned.

Go convince the group that by far has the most social capital, the most outright capital, the most attention on them, to actually DO something for once that isn't superficial platitudes.

Let's move away from faulty/patronizing argumentation in attempts to find common ground, because that's just "civility" rhetoric.

Forget the honey for now. Vinegar is necessary for cleaning!

Besides which...40% is just too large a number to determine why they didn't vote. We need a lot more data into who they are because that's half the country right there!

Disclaimer: I'm not a socialist. I came here a while ago and have stuck around because the analysis is far more advanced, and more scholarly than PoliEra by miles.

There's hardly any drive-by's, the discussions are nuanced for the most part (except the tankie ones; those are clear cut), the participants are mature, patient, and full of knowledge.

A lot of the "conflict" is brought by outside forces like us—when we try and neg them.

Divorcing this particular thread of discussion from the DSA-Warren thing because it's important to talk about and also I will be voting for her if Bernie isn't the nom:

My distaste for any voter shaming like this is rooted in being violently aware of what it's like for the people worst off economically in the US. These people not only have hurdle after hurdle placed between them and their vote, they're (intentionally) pushed farther and farther away from the consequences of their leaders' actions to the point that they feel separate from them.

They're living day-to-day, paycheck-to-paycheck, constantly anxious about keeping a roof over their head, having enough nutritious food and clean water, avoiding any medical situation that would ruin them financially (or dealing with such a reality), raising children, working some shitty minimum-wage (or adjacent) job. I don't see how the psyche of this type of non-voter can be so invisible to people who participate in shaming them.

Hell, "catching more flies with honey than vinegar" applies tremendously to this precise situation. Telling people wallowing in helplessness on a daily basis who see no way out that they're sociopathic for mentally succumbing to the unrelenting socioeconomic pressure of living under capitalism is not going to have the effect of getting them to vote. You can highlight the repulsiveness of Trump's administration, but you're going to need to also have a convincing case that material conditions are going to improve for those people against whom this system is waging outright war.

So yes, these people (rightfully) are asking "What are you gonna do for me?" And the answer they get, regardless of posturing and rhetoric, is always "Absolutely fucking nothing."

Hear, hear!
 
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Deleted member 22490

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
9,237
Something I find interesting is how liberals use "there are kids in cages" and whatnot to shame people into voting or call them sociopaths as TheHunter did, but there was nary a peep when Democrats bomb brown children or helped start a war that led to famine and massacres. There was a law that Obama got passed during his administration that would prevent the US from sending money to regimes that used child soldiers. A noble effort, except it provided exceptions in the form of waivers. We continued to give countries money even though they used child soldiers because it was "in the best interest of the US".

Children being held in cages is completely horrible, but that appears to be what liberals are focused on. It reeks of myopia. I am not going to fault anyone who doesn't want to vote for either candidate when it comes to issues like that. I also won't fault those that do as long as they keep fighting to make things better. Those who just want to breathe a sigh of relief, as Pekola said, are completely shitty.
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,123
Brooklyn, NY
Divorcing this particular thread of discussion from the DSA-Warren thing because it's important to talk about and also I will be voting for her if Bernie isn't the nom:

My distaste for any voter shaming like this is rooted in being violently aware of what it's like for the people worst off economically in the US. These people not only have hurdle after hurdle placed between them and their vote, they're (intentionally) pushed farther and farther away from the consequences of their leaders' actions to the point that they feel separate from them.

They're living day-to-day, paycheck-to-paycheck, constantly anxious about keeping a roof over their head, having enough nutritious food and clean water, avoiding any medical situation that would ruin them financially (or dealing with such a reality), raising children, working some shitty minimum-wage (or adjacent) job. I don't see how the psyche of this type of non-voter can be so invisible to people who participate in shaming them.

Hell, "catching more flies with honey than vinegar" applies tremendously to this precise situation. Telling people wallowing in helplessness on a daily basis who see no way out that they're sociopathic for mentally succumbing to the unrelenting socioeconomic pressure of living under capitalism is not going to have the effect of getting them to vote. You can highlight the repulsiveness of Trump's administration, but you're going to need to also have a convincing case that material conditions are going to improve for those people against whom this system is waging outright war.

So yes, these people (rightfully) are asking "What are you gonna do for me?" And the answer they get, regardless of posturing and rhetoric, is always "Absolutely fucking nothing."

this and what Snowy said above. encouraging people to vote for your preferred candidate is fine and good, but when/if Democrats lose, I will always, always reject shaming of third-party and (especially) non-voters, because it serves no purpose whatsoever except to shift blame away from the structural factors that cause people to lose faith in the ability of their votes to effect change, and onto people who have no real power besides their votes.

calling non-voters sociopaths, lazy, ignorant, etc. comes from a place of extreme privilege and I'm tired of hearing it. I highly recommend reading this piece on black 2016 non-voters instead, for a start

 

Snowy

Banned
Nov 11, 2017
1,399
Something I find interesting is how liberals use "there are kids in cages" and whatnot to shame people into voting or call them sociopaths as TheHunter did, but there was nary a peep when Democrats bomb brown children or helped start a war that led to famine and massacres. There was a law that Obama got passed during his administration that would prevent the US from sending money to regimes that used child soldiers. A noble effort, except it provided exceptions in the form of waivers. We continued to give countries money even though they used child soldiers because it was "in the best interest of the US".

Children being held in cages is completely horrible, but that appears to be what liberals are focused on. It reeks of myopia. I am not going to fault anyone who doesn't want to vote for either candidate when it comes to issues like that. I also won't fault those that do as long as they keep fighting to make things better. Those who just want to breathe a sigh of relief, as Pekola said, are completely shitty.

It's because liberals didn't mind being imperialist, but they do mind being fascist, if we use the "inward deployment of colonial control mechanisms" definition of fascism as the rubric for what is happening.
 

collige

Member
Oct 31, 2017
12,772
this and what Snowy said above. encouraging people to vote for your preferred candidate is fine and good, but when/if Democrats lose, I will always, always reject shaming of third-party and (especially) non-voters, because it serves no purpose whatsoever except to shift blame away from the structural factors that cause people to lose faith in the ability of their votes to effect change, and onto people who have no real power besides their votes.

calling non-voters sociopaths, lazy, ignorant, etc. comes from a place of extreme privilege and I'm tired of hearing it. I highly recommend reading this piece on black 2016 non-voters instead, for a start

The other thing that gets me about the non-voter shaming is that people will rightfully call out GOP voter suppression schemes, but then ignore that all of these barriers exist and blame every individual that doesn't make it to the polls.
 

Deleted member 721

User-requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,416
so whats your guys opinions on the catalan question, a priori i think about the self determination of the people, and its not much different from hong kong protests the difference hk wants autonomy not independence, but catalan seems to have a bigger national identity than HK, yet the repression on the catalan independence is more accepted here or in some leftists communities, and the discussion seems like controversial and not popular, where you have people openly offending and pissed with catalan independence movement, and the use of repression against them is applauded and the prisons seem as justice.
 

Acorn

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,972
Scotland
so whats your guys opinions on the catalan question, a priori i think about the self determination of the people, and its not much different from hong kong protests the difference hk wants autonomy not independence, but catalan seems to have a bigger national identity than HK, yet the repression on the catalan independence is more accepted here or in some leftists communities, and the discussion seems like controversial and not popular, where you have people openly offending and pissed with catalan independence movement, and the use of repression against them is applauded and the prisons seem as justice.
I have a great deal of solidarity with Catalans. They have been very supportive of our (Scotland)independence movement.

Even without that connection I'd still be broadly pro as the Spanish govt have done nothing but try to kill their voice instead of letting the citizens decide who they are governed by. The longer that is denied the stronger the independence movement will get.
 

TheHunter

Bold Bur3n Wrangler
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
25,774
Something I find interesting is how liberals use "there are kids in cages" and whatnot to shame people into voting or call them sociopaths as TheHunter did, but there was nary a peep when Democrats bomb brown children or helped start a war that led to famine and massacres. There was a law that Obama got passed during his administration that would prevent the US from sending money to regimes that used child soldiers. A noble effort, except it provided exceptions in the form of waivers. We continued to give countries money even though they used child soldiers because it was "in the best interest of the US".

Children being held in cages is completely horrible, but that appears to be what liberals are focused on. It reeks of myopia. I am not going to fault anyone who doesn't want to vote for either candidate when it comes to issues like that. I also won't fault those that do as long as they keep fighting to make things better. Those who just want to breathe a sigh of relief, as Pekola said, are completely shitty.
I care about those things too.

I am not going to stop fighting just because Warren or Sanders gets elected. But there is an immediate threat to all of those things. A threat that to me just staying out of it isn't a good moral choice.

I will shame any Liberals who just pack it up when Trump is gone. Many of us know these issues go beyond just Trump.
 

Deleted member 18360

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,844
Even apart from a depressed or disenfranchised electorate I think there's an argument for the 'Bernie or bust' thing that kind of mirrors the controversy surrounding food banks. Specifically that yes food banks serve to immediately diminish food insecurity, however this comes at the cost of framing food insecurity as a problem to be addressed by personal charity, which then just seems to normalize a state of permanent crisis, as the problem will never be resolved in any meaningful sense through individual charity. So if you're a somewhat committed socialist you're probably doxastically incapable of believing in such a thing as 'accountable capitalism' or whatever the overtly reformist stance is. And in which case supporting someone like Warren is just not going to be top priority even if it is the prudential choice.

I'm a Canadian and culturally we don't really know anything about what it means to vote outside or irrespective of pragmatic considerations. 'Anything but Conservative' is the maxim for basically anyone remotely left of center myself included. But if your system is more or less consistently based on the electorate acting out of civic duty just to prevent things from simply getting worse (because no one is willing or capable of offering some kind of positive account of what's really happening), then I can totally understand people getting fed up and failing to recognize casting a vote every few years as a particularly meaningful activity. Fixating on this as an individual failing instead of an easily anticipated broader consequence just seems ass backwards to me.
 
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Pekola

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,507
Do you all remember that thread where people were defending American Journalism, and that there was no bias, and no influence from the rich owners?

Maybe it's a problem of perspective? 🙃
 
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Deleted member 721

User-requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,416
a bunch of democracies in the world (US included) are fake democracies, money plays a big part in the process that corrupts democracy. You need a lot of money to run, and to do that you have to say stuff that is not too radical for the rich to donate to your campaign, if you try to do a campaign that sides with the poor and wants something radical, you are fucked, you will depend of donations of people that have little to give, and you cant forget that that since the media is owned by the elite they will also have interests that most likely will defend their own group (the elite) and will attack any radical change that will favor the poor and attack the rich. And you cant forget the lobbyists in the congress, only rich people has lobby. In the end who has money has a much bigger political power in the process, so they can mantain it, and that true for a bunch of contries.

Thats not democracy thats an oligarchy dressed as democracy, and that's as old as time. But i will say that only here, if i said that elsewhere i would have 20 notifications.
 

Deleted member 14459

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,874
so whats your guys opinions on the catalan question, a priori i think about the self determination of the people, and its not much different from hong kong protests the difference hk wants autonomy not independence, but catalan seems to have a bigger national identity than HK, yet the repression on the catalan independence is more accepted here or in some leftists communities, and the discussion seems like controversial and not popular, where you have people openly offending and pissed with catalan independence movement, and the use of repression against them is applauded and the prisons seem as justice.

Outside of Spain I'm not sure about socialists being against Catalonia independence... The lack of solidarity is also perhaps to do with not feeling pressure to have an enlightened position unlike HK were I feel every American socialist has felt pressure to read up in fear of being labeled a tankie... Ironically of course the Catalan movement has far greater participants from the far left, socialists and ecosocialists than the HK movement. Both independence movements of course have their share of downright fascist nationalists as well...
 

Pekola

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,507
I'm going for a bit.

Mainly because it feels like the world is burning, home is burning, and I miss someone dearly...I'm trying to take it in stride. But it's become increasingly hard.

So the last thing I need is getting curious, clicking on a thread and just seeing hot takes fly.

So...take care of each other, guys (੭ˊ͈ ꒵ˋ͈)੭̸*✧⁺˚
 

Deffers

Banned
Mar 4, 2018
2,402
I'm going for a bit.

Mainly because it feels like the world is burning, home is burning, and I miss someone dearly...I'm trying to take it in stride. But it's become increasingly hard.

So the last thing I need is getting curious, clicking on a thread and just seeing hot takes fly.

So...take care of each other, guys (੭ˊ͈ ꒵ˋ͈)੭̸*✧⁺˚

Feel better soon, Pekola! Take care of yourself! You're a cool person.
 

Deleted member 18360

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,844
I'm going for a bit.

Mainly because it feels like the world is burning, home is burning, and I miss someone dearly...I'm trying to take it in stride. But it's become increasingly hard.

So the last thing I need is getting curious, clicking on a thread and just seeing hot takes fly.

So...take care of each other, guys (੭ˊ͈ ꒵ˋ͈)੭̸*✧⁺˚

You too! And don't worry, the hot takes will still be here when you get back!...
 
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TheHunter

Bold Bur3n Wrangler
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
25,774
I'm going for a bit.

Mainly because it feels like the world is burning, home is burning, and I miss someone dearly...I'm trying to take it in stride. But it's become increasingly hard.

So the last thing I need is getting curious, clicking on a thread and just seeing hot takes fly.

So...take care of each other, guys (੭ˊ͈ ꒵ˋ͈)੭̸*✧⁺˚
Be well and keep up the good fight!
 

Acorn

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,972
Scotland
Chile is continuing to escalate and Lebanon have 1.2 million people on the streets. It's crazy that this is all happening at the same time.
 
No More Community Wars

Cerium

The Former
Member
Oct 23, 2017
1,741
Official Staff Communication
Note: This staff message has been posted in both the PoliEra and Socialism OTs, but they will be enforced across the site.

Fighting between communities has been getting worse lately, and that ends now. It's ruined too many threads at this point and it's been a constant breach of the terms of service. It's unfair to everyone else who uses this site that a small minority has been turning large swaths of EtcetEra toxic. Many users have complained about this to us and we believe they are right to do so.

In that past we've relied on ordinary bans with gradual escalation, in the hopes that this would be enough to ensure that everyone can coexist. It hasn't been enough. Users have instead resorted to trolling in subtler ways, hoping that the staff won't notice or mind. To deter this, we will now be issuing much longer bans and rapidly escalate them as hard as necessary.

There have been a handful of recurring offenders on both sides in this – you know who you are. The following goes for everyone but especially for you: The pejoratives, nicknames, turns of phrase and other creative aggressions will no longer be tolerated. Attempts to provoke one another, to gatekeep, to deliberately keep the fighting going, will no longer be tolerated. Going back to your respective OTs to whine and complain about each other will no longer be tolerated.

It all stops now. Do not complain that you were not warned.
 

Deleted member 18360

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,844
Official Staff Communication
Note: This staff message has been posted in both the PoliEra and Socialism OTs, but they will be enforced across the site.

Fighting between communities has been getting worse lately, and that ends now. It's ruined too many threads at this point and it's been a constant breach of the terms of service. It's unfair to everyone else who uses this site that a small minority has been turning large swaths of EtcetEra toxic. Many users have complained about this to us and we believe they are right to do so.

In that past we've relied on ordinary bans with gradual escalation, in the hopes that this would be enough to ensure that everyone can coexist. It hasn't been enough. Users have instead resorted to trolling in subtler ways, hoping that the staff won't notice or mind. To deter this, we will now be issuing much longer bans and rapidly escalate them as hard as necessary.

There have been a handful of recurring offenders on both sides in this – you know who you are. The following goes for everyone but especially for you: The pejoratives, nicknames, turns of phrase and other creative aggressions will no longer be tolerated. Attempts to provoke one another, to gatekeep, to deliberately keep the fighting going, will no longer be tolerated. Going back to your respective OTs to whine and complain about each other will no longer be tolerated.

It all stops now. Do not complain that you were not warned.

I'd like to know what counts as complaining in the OTs. It seems reasonable to prohibit singling anyone out by name for instance, but of what I've seen in here members were never named and the criticism was on the basis of what they said (like someone expressing consternation at another poster calling AOC a 'socialist waifu'). Because if it extends as far as that, I think it's defeating the point of a community thread, in that people feel more inclined to express themselves due to their reasonable presumption that they'll be understood or be commiserated with or something.