• The GiftBot 2.0 Launch Giveaway Extravaganza has come to a close with an astounding 8073 games given away to the community by 696 members, a huge success thanks to you! The gifting now continues with more official prizes in the new Gaming Giveaways |OT|. Leftover Steam codes are also being given away to the PC Gaming Era community.

Socialism |OT| The Dawn of a Red Era

What tendency/ideology do you best align with?

  • Anarchism

    Votes: 28 20.0%
  • Marxism

    Votes: 13 9.3%
  • Marxism-Leninism

    Votes: 5 3.6%
  • Left Communism

    Votes: 4 2.9%
  • Democratic Socialism

    Votes: 54 38.6%
  • Social Democracy

    Votes: 31 22.1%
  • Other

    Votes: 5 3.6%

  • Total voters
    140

Televator

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,757
It’s asking me to sign up, but I got her name. Thanks

Juli Briskman is the woman who flipped off Donald Trump while she was cycling near his golf club and got fired from her job for it. She then started getting active and ran for board of supervisors and won. Flipping her particular seat from red to blue.

I’m gonna let myself feel good about that one.

I think she even successfully sued her former employer. So much winning in this story.
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,002
Brooklyn, NY
Warren's response to Bill Gates is a great example of why I would never support her over Bernie in the primary. She's given about the easiest possible layup for an "I welcome their hatred" response, and instead she goes for the conciliatory "I still want to be your friend and I'm not going to soak you that much" angle.
 

Acorn

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,571
Scotland
Some already do - or stop just short by imagining ”what would Engels write in FT?”

”Marx and Engels were revolutionaries, but also pragmatic. They wanted their ideas to be discussed as real alternatives. If they were alive today we are convinced they would promote activism as a powerful social force, if only the activists in various areas — financial, environmental, political, corporate and social — could unite. Think of the billionaires such as Bill Gates, Warren Buffett and Mark Zuckerberg, who already support philanthropic efforts to alleviate inequality...We also think Marx and Engels would update their views about private property”

 
Oct 27, 2017
3,746
Primarily I'd want a Warren/Sanders presidency/vice presidency

But I'm fully preparing my self for when warren backstabs progressives
 

Deffers

Member
Mar 4, 2018
1,736
That is a terrible ticket.

You pick a running late that helps you win a broader coalition. Not the same group!
The question is, is there a veep choice that isn't a Tim Kaine. 'Cos you're not gonna tell me Tim Kaine, were he still around, is a better choice than Bernie. One of the other candidates? Who? You don't want, say, Biden as a veep pick. That'd be a joke. Kamala has her own baggage. Beto? Pete? Given the legislative situation, it'd be dangerous to tag in a senator, and even the list of possible governors is minimal.

Personally, I think the Bernie veep pick has a bit of an X-factor by its implication. Having such a major personality as a running mate kinda feels like taking a different approach to the presidency, especially since they're pretty close to each other in the polls. Maybe it's just my idealistic mind here, but you could spin a pretty unique message, and we're living in times when a unique, new message could entice new voters. Republican votes are energized by fear, but Democrat votes are energized by hope. Obama's campaign proved that most of all. I think it would be unprecedented, and the role that a Vice President plays in the senate would make it ideal for the organizer-in-chief role Bernie's proposing. I think there's something there.
 

3bdelilah

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,143
Fellow comrades, I have a question about my response to someone who makes money off property (presumably leasing, renting, etc. I don't know, I didn't specify). Is my response correct, factually based on theory, and well-nuanced? Any tips or suggestions?

From a capitalist perspective, you're doing a good job. Apparently there's demand for it and you supply it, perfectly fine and everything's dandy. It's business, the market decides.

From a socialist perspective, no, you're not okay. Far from it. Private property is viewed as a cancer, it's why "seize the means of production" is such a popular phrase. By making off money from property, you engage in a social relationship between yourself and the people you offer your services to. That social relationship inherently has an oppressor/depriver and an oppressed/deprived, two guesses which one is you. It's one thing to own a big house you yourself live in, which is perfectly okay under socialism (and which, according to many, falls under personal property), and another one to have multiple properties that you rent out and make money of.

Basically, the general rule of thumb is that if it makes you money when you're doing next to nothing, virtually making your assets and properties "work" for you, it's a no-no.
 

Deffers

Member
Mar 4, 2018
1,736
Fellow comrades, I have a question about my response to someone who makes money off property (presumably leasing, renting, etc. I don't know, I didn't specify). Is my response correct, factually based on theory, and well-nuanced? Any tips or suggestions?
I'd maybe go a bit less hard on the person, depending on how well you think they'll take to the message, and explain the nature of rent-seeking directly. Rent-seeking is where you make money from a property rather than labor, as you alluded to-- but that brings with it a crucial distinction you'll need to make. So for example, if someone at your building did repairs to that building and you paid them for that, that's not bad, as you're compensating them for their labor. But your rent doesn't go to cover the cost of labor required in maintaining a building or being on call, it's based on the privilege of living in the property owned by the renter.

You can explain, furthermore, that tenants' unions would be a socialist replacement to a landlord, and the things you like your landlord doing and that a good landlord does often (like maintenance and upkeep) would be handled by someone the tenants' union hired or voted in. Make it clear there's an alternative and that the good things that they identify with are still available to them in this alternative.

You might rephrase the last bit with the "doing next to nothing," but that's up to you. After all, we're all angling for FULLY AUTOMATED LUXURY GAY SPACE COMMUNISM and etc. The bit where you talk about having assets and properties work for you is spot on.

Overall, though, I think you explained it well.
 

3bdelilah

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,143
I'd maybe go a bit less hard on the person, depending on how well you think they'll take to the message, and explain the nature of rent-seeking directly. Rent-seeking is where you make money from a property rather than labor, as you alluded to-- but that brings with it a crucial distinction you'll need to make. So for example, if someone at your building did repairs to that building and you paid them for that, that's not bad, as you're compensating them for their labor. But your rent doesn't go to cover the cost of labor required in maintaining a building or being on call, it's based on the privilege of living in the property owned by the renter.

You can explain, furthermore, that tenants' unions would be a socialist replacement to a landlord, and the things you like your landlord doing and that a good landlord does often (like maintenance and upkeep) would be handled by someone the tenants' union hired or voted in. Make it clear there's an alternative and that the good things that they identify with are still available to them in this alternative.

You might rephrase the last bit with the "doing next to nothing," but that's up to you. After all, we're all angling for FULLY AUTOMATED LUXURY GAY SPACE COMMUNISM and etc. The bit where you talk about having assets and properties work for you is spot on.

Overall, though, I think you explained it well.
I definitely didn't intend to come across as hard, accusative, or otherwise ill-willed, so I hope s/he didn't feel that way, but thanks for the feedback!
 

Rupetta

Member
Oct 27, 2017
885
Boston/Helsinki
Speaking of good news - this is huge if it holds - Boudin is among the most progressive anticarceral DA candidates in the country. People must not forget how absolutely central DA elections are in the struggle:
But if the Caban -Katz fuckery taught me anything it is to hold celebrations until all ballots are counted...

Edit: https://missionlocal.org/2019/11/s-f-election-update-a-watershed-moment-for-chesa-boudin-and-dean-preston/

Edit2 here is his profile: https://www.jacobinmag.com/2019/05/chesa-boudin-san-francisco-district-attorney
 
Last edited:

Kay

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
431
I’m dead serious when I say there is a left movement building across the globe right now and it’s gonna explode in 2020. And I’m not talking about the election.
Look back at the conditions that led to the new deal, realise we're getting closer to that point again but this time it'll be worldwide and there won't be a post-ww2 economy to fuel worker consessions to stop it getting messy.

first as tragedy, then as farce
 
OP
OP
sphagnum

sphagnum

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,704
It's kind of amazing that the national GOP hasn't picked up on Boudin, considering who his parents/guardians were.
 

Heromanz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,165
Outside of unique circumstances all students go to public schools because if everyone goes to the public school there is an incentive for schools to get better. There will be no private or charter schools outside of unique circumstances. Is anyone else agree with this ?
 

Rupetta

Member
Oct 27, 2017
885
Boston/Helsinki
Outside of unique circumstances all students go to public schools because if everyone goes to the public school there is an incentive for schools to get better. There will be no private or charter schools outside of unique circumstances. Is anyone else agree with this ?
it depends on what basis the state distributes money to the public schools - usually the basis is not congruent with improving learning for all students. The public school system still emulates the private sector in terms of performance indicators (even discounting profit), so delinking from that is key.
 

umop 3pisdn

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,118
Outside of unique circumstances all students go to public schools because if everyone goes to the public school there is an incentive for schools to get better. There will be no private or charter schools outside of unique circumstances. Is anyone else agree with this ?
During the enlightenment era you could hardly talk about democracy without also talking about public education institutions, because they recognized that you can’t really have a democratic society without strong public education institutions to teach the masses of people how to be citizens.

I find it kind of funny that an intuition from like two hundred years ago around the origin of democracy is somehow less apparent or evident to us now lol.
 

Eylos

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,597
Outside of unique circumstances all students go to public schools because if everyone goes to the public school there is an incentive for schools to get better. There will be no private or charter schools outside of unique circumstances. Is anyone else agree with this ?
yep i agree
 

Acorn

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,571
Scotland
During the enlightenment era you could hardly talk about democracy without also talking about public education institutions, because they recognized that you can’t really have a democratic society without strong public education institutions to teach the masses of people how to be citizens.

I find it kind of funny that an intuition from like two hundred years ago around the origin of democracy is somehow less apparent or evident to us now lol.
200 years of the privileged muddying the issue with "choice!" b.s. I can't think of a single good reason for private schools to exist, especially as charities here.
 

DrSlek

Member
Oct 29, 2017
4,331
Outside of unique circumstances all students go to public schools because if everyone goes to the public school there is an incentive for schools to get better. There will be no private or charter schools outside of unique circumstances. Is anyone else agree with this ?
Works in Finland
 

louisacommie

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,587
New Jersey
Yeah the era of the last 40 years is dieing and the next and hopefully final conflict between capitalism in its final and most evil form and us will begin

It's like sozens comet
 

Eylos

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,597
Yeah the era of the last 40 years is dieing and the next and hopefully final conflict between capitalism in its final and most evil form and us will begin

It's like sozens comet
it made me remember j-rpg final bosses and its multiple forms, when you think "yeah now its fucking dead, the end", then appears mega-ultra-capitalism from hell DX form
 
Last edited: