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Socialism |OT| The Dawn of a Red Era

What tendency/ideology do you best align with?

  • Anarchism

    Votes: 36 17.7%
  • Marxism

    Votes: 17 8.4%
  • Marxism-Leninism

    Votes: 7 3.4%
  • Left Communism

    Votes: 7 3.4%
  • Democratic Socialism

    Votes: 75 36.9%
  • Social Democracy

    Votes: 50 24.6%
  • Other

    Votes: 11 5.4%

  • Total voters
    203

Psychoward

Member
Nov 7, 2017
21,328
I would imagine most who would fall on the right panels probably don't give a shit about the protests or the protesters as long as it doesn't negatively affect the markets.
Yeah, a lot of them are at least conscious enough to not defend a regime shooting at protestors though. at least not at loud
Ironically, I saw more finance people angry at the right wing Bolivian coup because a Morales controlled Bolivia is better for the world economy than a civil war wrecked Bolivia. They were more critical of it than most of the mainstream press who just copy whatever the US military says.

With HK, they're 100% on the side of the protestors because finance wants to keep HK as the middle man between the west and the chinese market.
I thought righties liked the coup not only bc "socialism bad" but because of Morales trying to nationalize the Lithium mines.
 

Chikor

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,546
authoritarian social policies and Liberal economic policies
Authoritarian is orthogonal on this chart to the left-right axes, I'm not a huge fan of that 2 axes framing, but that's a really unusual definition of right wing I think and it's really not work in something like those charts.

Also, I really don't think that China can be considered economically liberal, unless we're working on very different definition of the term.
 

thepotatoman

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,417
Denver
I thought righties liked the coup not only bc "socialism bad" but because of Morales trying to nationalize the Lithium mines.
That's good for the pocketbooks of anyone who comes to own that lithium, but not as good as the bad that comes to the accounts with a wider range of investments.

I don't want to overstate it though. They definitely don't like Morales and are ideologically aligned against him. They're just a little more critical of Anez and OAS destabilizing the country over it.
 

Psychoward

Member
Nov 7, 2017
21,328
That's good for the pocketbooks of anyone who comes to own that lithium, but not as good as the bad that comes to the accounts with a wider range of investments.

I don't want to overstate it though. They definitely don't like Morales and are ideologically aligned against him. They're just a little more critical of Anez and OAS destabilizing the country over it.
Makes sense
 

Chikor

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,546
I thought righties liked the coup not only bc "socialism bad" but because of Morales trying to nationalize the Lithium mines.
The US have tried to coup every single Latin American leader that self identified as socialist or communist.
I don't doubt that some business interests push for regime change that help them financially, they always get involved in that shit, but I honestly think the US would have done it even if they didn't have lithium. It might make them jump the line ahead of Nicaragua though.
 

Chikor

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,546
China is corruption first, , advance Chinese propaganda and power second and then economic policy third.
China is a command economy, it's pretty corrupt but it's not what's driving their economic policies and they are comically bad at propaganda.
I don't think any of those things make them right wing, but I'm not even sure what metric are ya'll using.
 

BuddyDharma

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,706
China is a command economy, it's pretty corrupt but it's not what's driving their economic policies and they are comically bad at propaganda.
I don't think any of those things make them right wing, but I'm not even sure what metric are ya'll using.
I don't really have the frame of reference to know what "command economy" means in this context. I know it's not the exaggerated image of a Soviet, centrally planned, and heavily bureaucratic one that most Americans think of when they hear the phrase. Would it be a bit more analogous to WWII-era USA?
 

Chikor

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,546
I don't really have the frame of reference to know what "command economy" means in this context. I know it's not the exaggerated image of a Soviet, centrally planned, and heavily bureaucratic one that most Americans think of when they hear the phrase. Would it be a bit more analogous to WWII-era USA?
They run 5 years plans, and the government generally just do a lot of long term planning for the economy and the country.
Another real important difference that is often overlooked between China and the US is that in China companies can't sue the government, and that allow the government to assert way more direct control over the private sector than the US could ever do (when american companies and politicians talk about "the rule of law" in the context of China, they are talking about that).

I think the most similar system is the west is what South Korea had until the 90s or so.
 

thepotatoman

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,417
Denver
China is a command economy, it's pretty corrupt but it's not what's driving their economic policies and they are comically bad at propaganda.
I don't think any of those things make them right wing, but I'm not even sure what metric are ya'll using.
This made me want to see what chinese government twitter is like, and it is indeed bad. Half of it seems to rely on a big gotcha in pointing out Iraq, Syria, and Afghanistan wars aren't about spreading freedom.

They're not wrong, but Iraq was two presidents ago, and people barely know we're doing anything in Syria and Afghanistan to begin with. They seem to see pride where there's really lack of interest.

Maybe it's meant for other english speakers outside of america, but they often bring up the monetary cost of the wars a lot too, which probably doesn't matter to non-americans either way.
 
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Chikor

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,546
This made me want to see what chinese government twitter is like, and it is indeed bad. Half of it seems to rely on a big gotcha in pointing out Iraq, Syria, and Afghanistan wars aren't about spreading freedom.

They're not wrong, but Iraq was two presidents ago, and people barely know we're doing anything in Syria and Afghanistan to begin with. They seem to see pride where there's really lack of interest.

Maybe it's meant for other english speakers outside of america, but they often bring up the monetary cost of the wars a lot too, which probably doesn't matter to non-americans either way.
I think it's important to remember that almost all government propaganda is internally directed, this is pretty much universally true, and China is no exception. The internal Chinese propaganda is almost all "look at all those amazing bridges we built" and "oooh look, pandas!".

Talking shit about the US is a pretty damn new thing, I mean you obviously had Chinese people talking shit about the US online, but I think this is the first time I remember a Chinese official go full Khrushchev with this talk about American hypocrisy. I doubt it will be terribly effective, especially when the dude don't seem to understand how tweet threads work.

I don't know if that's a change in policy, so far China has not shown that it want any sort of confrontation with the US, I hope it doesn't mean that China is gonna take a more publicly aggressive stance with the US, because the US doesn't have the most stable government right now, and the US tend to lose its shit in general when people say bad things about it.
But twitter is twitter, there is a non negligible chance this dude is just showing off the fact that he's allowed to use twitter, the thing to watch in regards of public policy is the state media, specifically the English language newspapers, because that's how China generally try to communicate with the west.
 

Acorn

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,428
Scotland
I feel like some sort of conflict (probably proxy) is inevitable between the US and China. The United States has put so much of their ideology on being "number one!" that they'll have a meltdown if or when China overtakes them.
 

Chikor

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,546
I feel like some sort of conflict (probably proxy) is inevitable between the US and China. The United States has put so much of their ideology on being "number one!" that they'll have a meltdown if or when China overtakes them.
China has 4 times the population of the US, the only way it doesn't pass the US in GDP is if it stays forever poor.
I think people need to accept that.
Because the worst people in American politics are trying to start another cold war with China and they're getting a whole lot of support from the left for this disastrous endeavor, just like they supported the first cold war.
And I really don't buy that this is driven because people in the US just started to really care about Muslims or police brutality.
 

Acorn

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,428
Scotland
China has 4 times the population of the US, the only way it doesn't pass the US in GDP is if it stays forever poor.
I think people need to accept that.
Because the worst people in American politics are trying to start another cold war with China and they're getting a whole lot of support from the left for this disastrous endeavor, just like they supported the first cold war.
And I really don't buy that this is driven because people in the US just started to really care about Muslims or police brutality.
Yeah, I really hope it doesn't work but I think it will, they are now spoken about like Russia was immediately after 2016. Everything is some Chinese plot.
 

Chikor

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,546
Yeah, I really hope it doesn't work but I think it will, they are now spoken about like Russia was immediately after 2016. Everything is some Chinese plot.
It's the same cold war playbook and it's done for the same reason - when you have a big baddie to scare Americans, they stop questioning foreign policy.
Look even at Ukraine, now I'm not gonna lie, I never bothered to really educate myself on this whole "lethal aid" issue, so I'll spare you my uneduacted hot takes on the merits.
But I remember when the worst people in the Republican party were calling Obama a weak appeaser and Neville Chamberlain for not going with that, and Obama is not exactly a dove.
And I don't know, maybe this is the one time where John McCain and Marco Rubio ends up on the right side of history, maybe it's the one time Obama wasn't hawkish enough, but I feel like we had no debate on that thing and yet somehow it's now a bipartisan consensus and the two parties are falling over themselves to show that they were supporting and that they were supporting it before it was cool.
 
Oct 25, 2017
518
I don't know if I'd say china has a command economy just because they use economic planning but that's a closer description of it than a liberal market economy
 

Chikor

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,546
I don't know if I'd say china has a command economy just because they use economic planning but that's a closer description of it than a liberal market economy
I don't know the command economy is a super well agreed upon term anyway, it's the best term I can think of. I'm open for suggestions.
China doesn't exactly have one economic system by the way, they have a lot of economic zones that have quite a few sets of laws and regulations, and the differences between them are quite dramatic. And it's it's not static either.

In any case, I think it's definitely not a liberal economy.
 

seroun

Member
Oct 25, 2018
546
Discovered this thread. Didn't know it existed.

I know I am a leftist, but don't know which "left" way I tend to go, to be honest. I'm reading the Socialism101 thingie from the 1st post, hopefully I can get a clear pov with that. I know I am not a "social democrat", so there's that.

Thanks for making this thread, guys, if you have anything else you could share that would help me I am all ears! (Well, eyes, but you get it.)
 

seroun

Member
Oct 25, 2018
546
"economic and social interventions to promote social justice within the framework of a capitalist economy"

so if I think more than that should be done, I am a tankie? I dislike ML, and I believe in democracy, but I don't believe in socialdemocratic parties (centre-left parties). As far as I know that doesn't make me a tankie.
 
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FliXFantatier

Master of the Reality Stone
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
4,425
Los Angeles
The leftward march continues. The social democrats in Germany surprised everyone by electing two quite left wing figures to lead the party this weekend. The grand coalition is now on thin ice.
 

TheHunter

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,484
"economic and social interventions to promote social justice within the framework of a capitalist economy"

so if I think more than that should be done, I am a tankie? I dislike ML, and I believe in democracy, but I don't believe in socialdemocratic parties (centre-left parties). As far as I know that doesn't make me a tankie.
I wouldn't describe SocDem as center left.
 

Sibylus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,198
"economic and social interventions to promote social justice within the framework of a capitalist economy"

so if I think more than that should be done, I am a tankie? I dislike ML, and I believe in democracy, but I don't believe in socialdemocratic parties (centre-left parties). As far as I know that doesn't make me a tankie.
If pigeon isn't having a giggle, he knows that that isn't what a tankie is (nor what it *ought* mean).
 

seroun

Member
Oct 25, 2018
546
If pigeon isn't having a giggle, he knows that that isn't what a tankie is (nor what it *ought* mean).
Oh, yeah. I just wasn't sure if he seriously thought I am an ML or what. I don't agree, that's why I edited and stated more clearly my stance. I'm sure the usual posters of this thread know way more about me about socialism/etc.
 

Chikor

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,546
Can we maybe stop with that shit, at least in the freaking socialism thread?

You are using that term like people used "commie" in the 60s.

It feels silly to say that but I will say it anyway - the American left is not infiltrated by Russian, Chinese or Cuban agents, it is not "intellectually infected" with, wait, what ideology are we afraid of now? Stalinsm? Juche? Murderism? There isn't any serious revolutionary force in the American left who is working to overthrow the federal government and form a dictatorship.
This is not a real concern, this a caricature conservatives invented so they get to shout over people they don't want to argue with, and it's kinda scary to Democrats adopt that frame of mind again, just like the did in during the red scare.
 

Chikor

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,546
If pigeon isn't having a giggle, he knows that that isn't what a tankie is (nor what it *ought* mean).
And what exactly is a tankie?
I donno, to me it looks like the word people shout when they don't want to debate someone on the left of them, and it's kinda sad to see it used ironically in a socialism thread.

Ya'll know that if Marco Rubio dragged your lefty ass to the new and improved committee for un-american activities 2.0 and ask you if you are now, or have ever been a tankie, saying "well actually, I consider myself more of an anarcho syndicalist" is not gonna help you, right?
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,123
Brooklyn, NY
Can we maybe stop with that shit, at least in the freaking socialism thread?

You are using that term like people used "commie" in the 60s.

It feels silly to say that but I will say it anyway - the American left is not infiltrated by Russian, Chinese or Cuban agents, it is not "intellectually infected" with, wait, what ideology are we afraid of now? Stalinsm? Juche? Murderism? There isn't any serious revolutionary force in the American left who is working to overthrow the federal government and form a dictatorship.
This is not a real concern, this a caricature conservatives invented so they get to shout over people they don't want to argue with, and it's kinda scary to Democrats adopt that frame of mind again, just like the did in during the red scare.
trolls gonna troll, don't feed the troll
 
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sphagnum

sphagnum

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,981
There's nothing wrong with using the term tankie if you're doing it right, come on. It's not always used correctly. There are liberals who use it incorrectly because they think anyone who doesn't like NATO or wasn't 100% convinced about some of the wilder media narratives about Russia is a "tankie". But it has a long pedigree in socialist terminology, specifically because of the Soviets putting down the Hungarian revolt, and I don't have any qualms in saying that someone who supports an undemocratic party bureaucracy style state thay crushes democratic dissent is, in fact, a tankie.

You can still critically engage with Marxist-Leninist history and theory and recognize and learn from the good and bad things the USSR and PRC and so forth did, and also sometimes just say you dislike tankies. R/communism is full of them. Doesn't matter if they have no real power in the left at the moment - you can still be frustrated by them!
 

Chikor

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,546
There's nothing wrong with using the term tankie if you're doing it right, come on. It's not always used correctly. There are liberals who use it incorrectly because they think anyone who doesn't like NATO or wasn't 100% convinced about some of the wilder media narratives about Russia is a "tankie". But it has a long pedigree in socialist terminology, specifically because of the Soviets putting down the Hungarian revolt, and I don't have any qualms in saying that someone who supports an undemocratic party bureaucracy style state thay crushes democratic dissent is, in fact, a tankie.

You can still critically engage with Marxist-Leninist history and theory and recognize and learn from the good and bad things the USSR and PRC and so forth did, and also sometimes just say you dislike tankies. R/communism is full of them. Doesn't matter if they have no real power in the left at the moment - you can still be frustrated by them!
Who are those people?
No seriously, you think the American left has a problem with supporting the Soviet invasion to Hungary too much?

Again, I think it's mostly used by liberals and conservatives to avoid debating anyone they don't feel like debating, usually around American foreign policy, and I see a ton of people on the left looking really really hard everywhere to see if they can uncover The Bad Communists, and I think people should really really stop playing that game. You're just giving credibility to what is a bad faith ad-hominem attack.
 

pigeon

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,475
And what exactly is a tankie?
I donno, to me it looks like the word people shout when they don't want to debate someone on the left of them, and it's kinda sad to see it used ironically in a socialism thread.
To be clear, I was joking when I called the new poster a tankie. Obviously if I called you a tankie that would be a different situation.
 
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sphagnum

sphagnum

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,981
Who are those people?
No seriously, you think the American left has a problem with supporting the Soviet invasion to Hungary too much?
The "American left" isn't a monolithic entity, and a problem doesn't have to be gigantic to be noteworthy. For example, there are absolutely Stalinists in the American left, and by that I mean the people who believe that Stalin maintained power through legitimate democratic elections in the soviets and that the purges weren't his fault and Molotov-Ribbentrop was all part of his master plan and that everything you've ever heard bad about Stalin is bourgeois propaganda etc. I know they exist because for a time I was a Marxist-Leninist and I entertained their ideas! They have little influence and don't really matter, but that doesn't make them not annoying.

Obviously Stalin isn't responsible for the crushing of the Hungarian Revolution, but because Khrushchev's authoritarian turn fits in principal with the uncritical defense of the USSR seen among Stalinists, "tankie" came to be applied to non-democratic state socialism in general. Is it too broad? Maybe. But it's meant to be flippant, and that's fine. It's entirely possible to dig down deeper and talk about the distinctions between different "actually existing socialisms" at the same time.

And obviously anarchists and leftcoms are going to lump them all in together anyway.
 

Chikor

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,546
The "American left" isn't a monolithic entity, and a problem doesn't have to be gigantic to be noteworthy. For example, there are absolutely Stalinists in the American left, and by that I mean the people who believe that Stalin maintained power through legitimate democratic elections in the soviets and that the purges weren't his fault and Molotov-Ribbentrop was all part of his master plan and that everything you've ever heard bad about Stalin is bourgeois propaganda etc. I know they exist because for a time I was a Marxist-Leninist and I entertained their ideas! They have little influence and don't really matter, but that doesn't make them not annoying.

Obviously Stalin isn't responsible for the crushing of the Hungarian Revolution, but because Khrushchev's authoritarian turn fits in principal with the uncritical defense of the USSR seen among Stalinists, "tankie" came to be applied to non-democratic state socialism in general. Is it too broad? Maybe. But it's meant to be flippant, and that's fine. It's entirely possible to dig down deeper and talk about the distinctions between different "actually existing socialisms" at the same time.

And obviously anarchists and leftcoms are going to lump them all in together anyway.
You honestly think there is a major force in American politics that have more favorable views on Stalin than Khrushchev had?
Seriously, I have been running around in leftists circle since the 90s and I can honestly say that I have never in my life met a leftist person who was a fan of Stalin or thought that the US needs someone like him. Where are you all meeting those people?

And I really don't think that's how the term is used, at all.

Shall we do an internet search and see how the word "tankie" is used in this forum?
I'm gonna bet you a whole lot that none of the people who got called that actually think Stalin was a great leader or support the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact.

But that's the beauty of the term, you don't really need to define it even, just call someone that and conversation is over, right?
We can't reason with commies tankies.
 

BuddyDharma

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,706
You honestly think there is a major force in American politics that have more favorable views on Stalin than Khrushchev had?
Seriously, I have been running around in leftists circle since the 90s and I can honestly say that I have never in my life met a leftist person who was a fan of Stalin or thought that the US needs someone like him. Where are you all meeting those people?
Are you running around in leftist circles in person? Cuz I don't think these dudes leave their houses much. The only people I've seen unironically espouse Stalin apologia are very online, very sad, very lonely people. They don't actually, like, do anything.
 

Nerokis

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,083
not going to lie, seeing this attempt to revolt against the word 'tankie' reminds me of how a handful of posters in another thread tried something similar against the word 'triggering'

yes, you probably see those words misused all the time, but they do have productive usages and are worth maintaining in your vocabulary

tankies are absolutely a thing and I'm glad there's a pejorative term for them
 

Chikor

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,546
No, where are you getting that from what I said? My point was specifically that tankies are a small subset of the American left and that it's also OK to make fun of them.
I think you're ignoring how this term is being used in real life.
Again, you want to go through every time it was used in this thread and see how many times it was used to dunk on people who like Stalin and how many times it was used to either strawman arguments or just ignore the argument all together?

For real, how is it different than the way "commie" was used in the 60s?

the guy who says this line turns out to be a Russian asset, you know
You know the movie isn't real, right?
The American left was not corrupted by communist agents in the 50s and 60s, you just had a red scare, a lot of people got their lives ruined over bullshit, and a lot of people on the left cheered that and actively participated in that crap.
I really hope we're not gonna have another round of that nonsense, because the last time it devastated the non-capitalist left in the US . Ya'll think that when that ball get rolling it will get the bad commies but ya'll gonna be alright because you're The Good Kind of Socialist.

Spoiler: you're not. The issue they have with ya'll is that you want to take rich people's stuff, not that you didn't talk enough shit about Cuba or didn't support the Vietnam war hard enough.
 
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sphagnum

sphagnum

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,981
I think you're ignoring how this term is being used in real life.
Nobody is using it in real life anymore, it's primarily an online phenomena. Until I see Rachel Maddow calling Bernie Sanders a tankie because he wants to reduce military spending which could !!! help Russia and China !!!, I'm not too concerned about certain posters from the Thread Which Shall Not Be Named misusing it to call Glenn Greenwald a tankie or whatever. I know the real meaning of the term, as broad as it is, and I think it's funny to say.

You mentioned before that not everyone who might have the term slapped on them believes the same thing about Stalin. Yeah, I agree, that's fine. Like I said, it's become a term used in a wide sense for any sort of authoritarian state socialist supporter. It's not like every "shitlib" supports Thatcher style neoliberalism or whatever. It's not supposed to be an academic term! If someone is throwing around conspiracy theories about the Xinjiang internment camps all being bourgeois propaganda or they think North Korea did nothing wrong or that the GDR was actually totally fine because the NSA has more records than the Stasi ever did, then yeah, I'm not gonna have a problem with someone calling them a tankie. That doesn't mean it's ok to dismiss all context behind those countries. I don't want the US boxing in China with its navy, I know a lot of the more outlandish claims about the Kim family's execution methods are fake, I know the GDR wasn't hell on earth. I understand how the "actually existing socialisms" had problems in part due to western interference and how that warped them. But I can think those things all at the same time that I also say "tankie"!

Again, you want to go through every time it was used in this thread and see how many times it was used to dunk on people who like Stalin and how many times it was used to either strawman arguments or just ignore the argument all together?
I mean it's not really bad to dunk on Stalinists, but
otherwise those results mostly seem to point to people complaining about tankies in general rather than as part of specific arguments in the thread (aside from House of Lightning, who called everyone a Stalinist).
 

IpKaiFung

Member
Oct 27, 2017
452
Wales
I may have been a bit too flippant in calling China's economy liberal.

China's economy is somewhat centrally planed (infrastructure and so forth) but the large companies are privately owned (of course with the communist party's blessing) but there are no workers rights or protections.

For example the 996 work culture (9 to 9 six days a week) and the exploitative bosses allowed to push their staff to breaking point. There are elements of China's economy that many a western billionaire would love to operate in.
 

Chikor

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,546
Nobody is using it in real life anymore, it's primarily an online phenomena. Until I see Rachel Maddow calling Bernie Sanders a tankie because he wants to reduce military spending which could !!! help Russia and China !!!, I'm not too concerned about certain posters from the Thread Which Shall Not Be Named misusing it to call Glenn Greenwald a tankie or whatever. I know the real meaning of the term, as broad as it is, and I think it's funny to say.

You mentioned before that not everyone who might have the term slapped on them believes the same thing about Stalin. Yeah, I agree, that's fine. Like I said, it's become a term used in a wide sense for any sort of authoritarian state socialist supporter. It's not like every "shitlib" supports Thatcher style neoliberalism or whatever. It's not supposed to be an academic term! If someone is throwing around conspiracy theories about the Xinjiang internment camps all being bourgeois propaganda or they think North Korea did nothing wrong or that the GDR was actually totally fine because the NSA has more records than the Stasi ever did, then yeah, I'm not gonna have a problem with someone calling them a tankie. That doesn't mean it's ok to dismiss all context behind those countries. I don't want the US boxing in China with its navy, I know a lot of the more outlandish claims about the Kim family's execution methods are fake, I know the GDR wasn't hell on earth. I understand how the "actually existing socialisms" had problems in part due to western interference and how that warped them. But I can think those things all at the same time that I also say "tankie"!



I mean it's not really bad to dunk on Stalinists, but
otherwise those results mostly seem to point to people complaining about tankies in general rather than as part of specific arguments in the thread (aside from House of Lightning, who called everyone a Stalinist).
If you carry a hammer and a sickle flag/sign to any non fringe protest in the US you are almost guarantee to be called a tankie, so I think that shit is very much in real life as well. But again, I think this is just a new version of "commie" because "commie" don't scare people like it used to.

And look at this thread, surely a socialism thread should be better on that front than the general pop, right?. This thread used "tankie" a ton of times, can you find me one case that it was used to actually dunk on someone who defend North Korea?
I think you're describing the caricature of the left that conservative love to push to disqualify them from public debate, and I really don't think people in the left should give that any sort of back wind.

For real now, you think the problem that the left has is that there are too many people who like Stalin there?
 

pigeon

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,475
I may have been a bit too flippant in calling China's economy liberal.

China's economy is somewhat centrally planed (infrastructure and so forth) but the large companies are privately owned (of course with the communist party's blessing) but there are no workers rights or protections.

For example the 996 work culture (9 to 9 six days a week) and the exploitative bosses allowed to push their staff to breaking point. There are elements of China's economy that many a western billionaire would love to operate in.
You don't have to use the subjunctive. They do operate in China's economy! That's why Bloomberg praised China's system. It's the party line for businesspeople who want to go ahead and do business in the PRC.