Socialism |OT| The Dawn of a Red Era

What tendency/ideology do you best align with?

  • Anarchism

    Votes: 48 15.8%
  • Marxism

    Votes: 26 8.6%
  • Marxism-Leninism

    Votes: 12 4.0%
  • Left Communism

    Votes: 7 2.3%
  • Democratic Socialism

    Votes: 116 38.3%
  • Social Democracy

    Votes: 75 24.8%
  • Other

    Votes: 19 6.3%

  • Total voters
    303

DrSlek

Member
Oct 29, 2017
4,766
I mean, since we're talking about ethically making work under capitalism. Hi, new face here. Been socialist and left-leaning for a while but it really catalyzed for me in 2016.

It seems I may been inheriting a small business in the future (5-10 years time). The thing is: it's apartment rentals. So if I inherited it, I'd end up, you know, a landlord. Granted if I did it I'm fairly certain I'd be more ethical than most but obviously the system is structured in such a way that even if you're the most generous landlord you're still a landlord. I realize this is a pretty huge question but I guess I'm trying to figure out if it's better to be a "good" landlord that will at least be a decent option for people, better not to get involved at all and try to make a living some other way, or if there's some third option I'm not fully considering, like turning things into a rent-to-own operation.

I'd like to be able to provide for my family and obviously getting the keys to a pre-existing business is a very privileged thing to have happen to yourself, so I'm well aware that this is a bougie question I'm considering already. My wife and I both have serious medical conditions that require expensive care, so the idea of consistent income is quite appealing. But I'd also like to not betray myself and beliefs over time.
That is quite a difficult decision to make, and not one I envy.
 

Mekanos

Member
Oct 17, 2018
15,620
I tend to fall under no ethical consumption under capitalism and I don't begrudge anyone choosing how to make a comfortable living, unless their job is about directly worsening the lives of the marginalized and poor. My instinct is to say fuck landlords, but I also understand if you have a choice like that, it's hard to say no to that sort of income, and I have landlords in my family, so... would be kind of hypocritical of me to tell you otherwise.

So basically just don't be a cop. I have strong opinions of military service as well but the US military is so normalized even among liberals that telling people to not take part in warfare and imperialism is surprisingly difficult.
 

FliXFantatier

Master of the Reality Stone
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
4,781
Los Angeles
I mean, since we're talking about ethically making work under capitalism. Hi, new face here. Been socialist and left-leaning for a while but it really catalyzed for me in 2016.

It seems I may been inheriting a small business in the future (5-10 years time). The thing is: it's apartment rentals. So if I inherited it, I'd end up, you know, a landlord. Granted if I did it I'm fairly certain I'd be more ethical than most but obviously the system is structured in such a way that even if you're the most generous landlord you're still a landlord. I realize this is a pretty huge question but I guess I'm trying to figure out if it's better to be a "good" landlord that will at least be a decent option for people, better not to get involved at all and try to make a living some other way, or if there's some third option I'm not fully considering, like turning things into a rent-to-own operation.

I'd like to be able to provide for my family and obviously getting the keys to a pre-existing business is a very privileged thing to have happen to yourself, so I'm well aware that this is a bougie question I'm considering already. My wife and I both have serious medical conditions that require expensive care, so the idea of consistent income is quite appealing. But I'd also like to not betray myself and beliefs over time.
That is quite a difficult decision to make, and not one I envy.
Yea,
That said being pragmatic about it. I would ask are the tenants going to be better off if you sell the business to the next person to fuck them over? Be the best landlord you can be.

Either way I would not want to be a landlord and carry that responsibility personally.
 

thepotatoman

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,646
Denver

There are multiple explanations for the populist rage that has put democracy at risk across the Western world, but the side effects of austerity rank high on the list.
In Eastern Europe, white nationalist parties came to power after center-left governments alienated the working class by letting themselves be talked or bullied into austerity policies. In Britain, support for right-wing extremists is strongest in regions hit hardest by fiscal austerity. And would we have Trump if years of wrongheaded austerity hadn’t delayed economic recovery under Barack Obama?
Suprised to see Krugman blame Obama's conservative economics for Trump. And he's right, Obamanomics sucked.
 

Chikor

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,219

There are multiple explanations for the populist rage that has put democracy at risk across the Western world, but the side effects of austerity rank high on the list.
In Eastern Europe, white nationalist parties came to power after center-left governments alienated the working class by letting themselves be talked or bullied into austerity policies. In Britain, support for right-wing extremists is strongest in regions hit hardest by fiscal austerity. And would we have Trump if years of wrongheaded austerity hadn’t delayed economic recovery under Barack Obama?
Suprised to see Krugman blame Obama's conservative economics for Trump. And he's right, Obamanomics sucked.
The US pretty much forced those countries to do that, and it is still doing so (and not only in eastern Europe).
And that shit is bipartisan, I honestly have no idea if rank and file Democrats even know what the IMF and their trade deals are doing in their name.

p.s.
Milton Friedman should rot in hell.
 

thepotatoman

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,646
Denver
The US pretty much forced those countries to do that, and it is still doing so (and not only in eastern Europe).
And that shit is bipartisan, I honestly have no idea if rank and file Democrats even know what the IMF and their trade deals are doing in their name.

p.s.
Milton Friedman should rot in hell.
And the Obama administration pushing austerity onto other countries is the tell that their austerity here wasn't because Republicans bullied them into it. The Republican strategy of obstruction on everything might even have made Obama do less austerity than he wanted.
 

dabig2

Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,999
And the Obama administration pushing austerity onto other countries is the tell that their austerity here wasn't because Republicans bullied them into it. The Republican strategy of obstruction on everything might even have made Obama do less austerity than he wanted.
Funny you say that, because all I can think about is how they fucked around with Obama's "Grand Bargain" nonsense. We were saved by the tea party there, who wanted even more draconian cuts.
If that had honestly passed, there's no damn way I would ever be calling myself a Democrat. I think the party itself would be dead in the water.
 

Chikor

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,219
And the Obama administration pushing austerity onto other countries is the tell that their austerity here wasn't because Republicans bullied them into it. The Republican strategy of obstruction on everything might even have made Obama do less austerity than he wanted.
America just push countries to have more right wing economic policies, as far as I can tell it does it pretty much on auto-pilot and I see no huge differences between the GOP and the Democrats on that front.
 
OP
OP
sphagnum

sphagnum

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,876
Wonder if the Iran stuff with benefit Biden or Bernie more. Will people turn to the guy with "foreign policy chops" or the guy with actual good foreign policy.
 

Massimoman64

Member
Dec 6, 2018
418
Wonder if the Iran stuff with benefit Biden or Bernie more. Will people turn to the guy with "foreign policy chops" or the guy with actual good foreign policy.
Really think it will depend on if Bernie would be able to land a critique on Obama-era foreign policy without it backfiring. I think the go-to would probably be about still not bringing home the troops after saying it for so long. Things like past votes on wars have been mentioned already and are too far in the past and the Iran deal will definitely be used as a shield against most other critique. On the other side, I think the more its talked about/made to seem that we are in a war already or that it is inevitable, the public at large will lean towards Biden as someone who knows there way around the situation to get through it.
 

Mekanos

Member
Oct 17, 2018
15,620
Something I've been thinking about a lot lately, with everything that's going on...

It feels like being a socialist is to be both cynical and optimistic.

You're cynical in the institutions and platitudes you've been taught to respect your whole life. Cynical of liberalism and its inability to affect real change while co-opting progressive ideas, cynical to the fact that the powerful and wealthy protect their own interests above all else, cynical in how easily people succumb to fascism, cynical in the ability to reform the system when the wealthy can buy their way out of reforms, cynical to how often people will vote against their own interests or not care about the plights of others... you get the idea.

But you also have to be optimistic. Optimistic that people, when shown the light, are fundamentally good, and can change - and that includes us as well as socialists. That when shit hits the fan, they will fight the good fight. Without them, our revolution, whether physical or cultural, cannot happen. And that's the sucky part. Walking around feeling like these millions of people who, intentionally or otherwise, stand in the way of progress, also have to be turned to our cause somehow. That we can't just give up on most people. It isn't really an option. We have to believe people can be good when stripped of the need to submit themselves to the hierarchies that control their lives. That we, all of us, can be better than we are now.

I'll admit sometimes I get caught up in looking down my noses at others because of their blindness to what's going on. We can all learn to be more humble. Socialism should be by the people, for the people, as trite as it is to say. It's good to remember that we're fighting for the people, not the perfect ideal of the people that exists in our head.

Anyway happy Monday.
 
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Xiaomi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,249
Pack it up, folks. I'm going to need to see all of y'all's medical charts before I can approve you to bring about the socialist utopia, I'm afraid.
 

ScribbleD

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
1,145
Pack it up, folks. I'm going to need to see all of y'all's medical charts before I can approve you to bring about the socialist utopia, I'm afraid.
I was a leftist until that thread showed me the error of my ways. The sheer scandal of Bernie's heinous lies!

Well now I shall surely be writing in Mitt Romney's name on the ballot come November!
 

Chikor

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,219
I don’t get why y’all even post in a thread like that, tbh. Just let it disappear.
So I don't think any of this terribly matter, but I see some people post in those threads like it's important to "correct the record" or whatever. And I think no well researched argument where you pwn some fools with your receipts on page 4 is gonna do more than that thread title staying on the front page of the OT.

Though as I said, I generally think it's not terribly important either way, so if people like that, whatever.
 

Televator

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,052
Though a lot of the time I will avoid those threads, I think there is a danger in letting Liberals have total control of the narrative around some subjects.
There was a thread some weeks ago, that turned into a bloodletting over a certain figure. It was a really nasty thread involving a small group of posters, and I don’t think the majority of people on the board find that compelling if not repulsive
 
OP
OP
sphagnum

sphagnum

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,876
There's going to be a lot of pressure suddenly to support the invasion of Iran, but remember - the US started this.

No war but class war.
 

doomspore

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1
Hey Comrades, I think this might be my first post on era, but I've been a longtime lurker and the past few days has motivated me. You all have been pretty instrumental in my leftward shift since eras founding and I just want to thank yall.

no war but class war.
 

DrSlek

Member
Oct 29, 2017
4,766
Hey Comrades, I think this might be my first post on era, but I've been a longtime lurker and the past few days has motivated me. You all have been pretty instrumental in my leftward shift since eras founding and I just want to thank yall.

no war but class war.
Welcome to our ever-growing collective.
 

GiantBreadbug

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,645
戦争許さなくて、階級戦しか許さない。

lighthearted editor's note: I am not a weeb
 
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DrSlek

Member
Oct 29, 2017
4,766
Means TV launches on the 26th of Feb.

 

Mekanos

Member
Oct 17, 2018
15,620
No war but class war.

Hey Comrades, I think this might be my first post on era, but I've been a longtime lurker and the past few days has motivated me. You all have been pretty instrumental in my leftward shift since eras founding and I just want to thank yall.

no war but class war.
Scary to think we have this much sway over lurkers, far too much power. Welcome!
 

Rupetta

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,029
Boston/Helsinki
Remember to bring the antiwar message out loudly - at times I find that message harder to carry than socialism...

ironically until the news, I was feeling very upbeat because I had just finished reading Red State Revolt - and fuckit if it did not invigorate to go out pushing unionism and the message of strikes again to the real world - for the whole of a couple of hours before the optimism was somewhat shaken by this.
 

Televator

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,052
The fascists are on one side of the class war. Figuring out which side might make some people uncomfortable about their own position....