Socialism |OT| The Dawn of a Red Era

What tendency/ideology do you best align with?

  • Anarchism

    Votes: 48 15.8%
  • Marxism

    Votes: 26 8.6%
  • Marxism-Leninism

    Votes: 12 4.0%
  • Left Communism

    Votes: 7 2.3%
  • Democratic Socialism

    Votes: 116 38.3%
  • Social Democracy

    Votes: 75 24.8%
  • Other

    Votes: 19 6.3%

  • Total voters
    303

TheHunter

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,999
You got a lot of faith in an old man that voted for the Iraq war, defended it for the entirety of the war, championed the 1994 Crime bill, hung out with segregationists that he still admires to this day, and has no new ideas and is constantly sleepy with a crack head son who abused his position to get free money. But sure, if he gets nominated, lets hope he wins!
It less faith and more pure unfiltered disgust at how predictable my fellow whites in the rust belt are.

Biden is safe. They like that. Don't want to think. Thinking stuff bad.
 

BADMAN

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
2,383
It less faith and more pure unfiltered disgust at how predictable my fellow whites in the rust belt are.

Biden is safe. They like that. Don't want to think. Thinking stuff bad.
What does Biden provide to these rust belt whites that Trump doesn't?

What will those rust belt whites think when Trump can successfully attack Biden from all angles?

It's not as cut and dry as you'd like to think. Most people who are undecided, the ones that actually choose our president, vote based off of the last impression they got from a candidate before going to vote.
 

TheHunter

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,999
What does Biden provide to these rust belt whites that Trump doesn't?

What will those rust belt whites think when Trump can successfully attack Biden from all angles?

It's not as cut and dry as you'd like to think. Most people who are undecided, the ones that actually choose our president, vote based off of the last impression they got from a candidate before going to vote.
Biden is winning voters who hate both candidates and independents.

So far, Biden has shrugged off all attacks. Because he's a strong white daddy and therefor without flaw. (because he has a dick and says things with conviction)

I will actually be more shocked if he loses.
 

Mekanos

Member
Oct 17, 2018
15,620
If Bernie doesn't win the nom I'm probably just gonna unplug from this electoral circus as much as I can then go to the polls in November, vote blue (hold my nose if it's Joe), then enter a coma I guess.
 

TheHunter

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,999
If Bernie doesn't win the nom I'm probably just gonna unplug from this electoral circus as much as I can then go to the polls in November, vote blue (hold my nose if it's Joe), then enter a coma I guess.
There can still be hope.

Get (good)progressives and (good)leftists in where you can. AoC happened because safe blue voters like you chose her!
 

BADMAN

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
2,383
Biden is winning voters who hate both candidates and independents.

So far, Biden has shrugged off all attacks. Because he's a strong white daddy and therefor without flaw. (because he has a dick and says things with conviction)

I will actually be more shocked if he loses.
Biden shrugged off all his attacks because the media won't call him out on his problems and anyone who tries gets the stink-eye. Remember Julian Castro?

The GOP isn't going to be so nice. They're going to turn his ass inside out. You know how sensitive Biden gets when you bring up his son to his face. Dude's got a good chance of cracking under pressure. And if you're looking for a candidate with a dick who says things with conviction, look at Bernie Sanders.

All I'm saying is that you should really prepare yourself for the reality of what Biden in the General is going to look like. He's a weak candidate with a shitty history. No amount of old white folksiness is going to save him from the reality of the situation.

Better hope that the rust belt undecideds are going to come out in droves. You're going to need a lot of them to make up for the loss in youth voters and general enthusiasm.
 

TheHunter

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,999
Biden shrugged off all his attacks because the media won't call him out on his problems and anyone who tries gets the stink-eye. Remember Julian Castro?

The GOP isn't going to be so nice. They're going to turn his ass inside out. You know how sensitive Biden gets when you bring up his son to his face. Dude's got a good chance of cracking under pressure. And if you're looking for a candidate with a dick who says things with conviction, look at Bernie Sanders.

All I'm saying is that you should really prepare yourself for the reality of what Biden in the General is going to look like. He's a weak candidate with a shitty history. No amount of old white folksiness is going to save him from the reality of the situation.

Better hope that the rust belt undecideds are going to come out in droves. You're going to need a lot of them to make up for the loss in youth voters and general enthusiasm.
Bernie's got conviction. He's also a socialist. Those white folks in the rust belt aren't ready/don't want that. Labor protections good. Socialism scary and unsure.

Remember, I live here. I know how they think (not much).
 

BADMAN

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
2,383
Bernie's got conviction. He's also a socialist. Those white folks in the rust belt aren't ready/don't want that. Labor protections good. Socialism scary and unsure.

Remember, I live here. I know how they think (not much).
Bernie's one hurdle is the socialist label. It's a big hurdle but not an impassable one. I like his chances a hell of a lot more personally. You look at general polling data and you can see that him being a socialist doesn't make that big of a difference vs Trump in comparison to Biden.

You also get a built in grassroots movement, a built in massive small donor base, a LARGE amount of enthusiasm, and a message of actual hope and change. A similar but more explicit message that Obama, a black dude who won a good chunk of the white vote, won off of.

If a black guy can win in a country as racist as America, a socialist can too.
 

TheHunter

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,999
Bernie's one hurdle is the socialist label. It's a big hurdle but not an impassable one. I like his chances a hell of a lot more personally. You look at general polling data and you can see that him being a socialist doesn't make that big of a difference vs Trump in comparison to Biden.

You also get a built in grassroots movement, a built in massive small donor base, a LARGE amount of enthusiasm, and a message of actual hope and change. A similar but more explicit message that Obama, a black dude who won a good chunk of the white vote, won off of.

If a black guy can win in a country as racist as America, a socialist can too.
I hope you're right.
 

Bonafide

Member
Oct 11, 2018
658
Bernie's one hurdle is the socialist label. It's a big hurdle but not an impassable one. I like his chances a hell of a lot more personally. You look at general polling data and you can see that him being a socialist doesn't make that big of a difference vs Trump in comparison to Biden.

You also get a built in grassroots movement, a built in massive small donor base, a LARGE amount of enthusiasm, and a message of actual hope and change. A similar but more explicit message that Obama, a black dude who won a good chunk of the white vote, won off of.

If a black guy can win in a country as racist as America, a socialist can too.
even if the socialist label is a big problem, its better to rip off the band aid now and confront than continue to dodge the issue by showing fealty to capitalism

conservatives have always made it a thing no matter how left (if at all) a politican is, might as well embrace it.
 

Mekanos

Member
Oct 17, 2018
15,620

I am probably going to phone bank for Bernie in Iowa. If anybody has similar inclinations and free time, consider doing the same.

I would like to try to bring the discussion more towards organizing and praxis outside of this electoral horse race, but I suppose it's good to talk about this as well. Might help with real organization. I'm gonna go to my local DSA meeting tomorrow for the first time, we'll see how that goes.
 

farmland

Member
Oct 30, 2017
350
It's so frustrating to be sitting here in Australia being unable to knock on door's for Bernie whilst my country burns. Especially given the real material cost of climate change stagnation and make no mistake, this election cycle really is the last of any major significance in my honest opinion. If major change to the energy system within the US (Australia's sadly already made it's choice) can't happen, everyone is fucked. A Biden win will certainly be better socially than Trump but it doesn't change the fundamental's that have lead to this crisis.

So please do everything you can, this primary affects more than just the US.
 

DrSlek

Member
Oct 29, 2017
4,766
It's so frustrating to be sitting here in Australia being unable to knock on door's for Bernie whilst my country burns. Especially given the real material cost of climate change stagnation and make no mistake, this election cycle really is the last of any major significance in my honest opinion. If major change to the energy system within the US (Australia's sadly already made it's choice) can't happen, everyone is fucked. A Biden win will certainly be better socially than Trump but it doesn't change the fundamental's that have lead to this crisis.

So please do everything you can, this primary affects more than just the US.
I maintain that apart from the overt fascism, the difference between Trump and any other Liberal cantidate is just the speed at which things get will worse.
 

Mekanos

Member
Oct 17, 2018
15,620
It's so frustrating to be sitting here in Australia being unable to knock on door's for Bernie whilst my country burns. Especially given the real material cost of climate change stagnation and make no mistake, this election cycle really is the last of any major significance in my honest opinion. If major change to the energy system within the US (Australia's sadly already made it's choice) can't happen, everyone is fucked. A Biden win will certainly be better socially than Trump but it doesn't change the fundamental's that have lead to this crisis.

So please do everything you can, this primary affects more than just the US.
After Corbyn lost I've been feeling pretty depressed about the future of leftism in electoral politics (even with the caveat that Brexit meant he was fighting an uphill battle). It was that moment where I decided I wanted to be more involved in organizing, protesting, etc. than just casting my ballot and hoping for the best. I'll do what I can to get Bernie to win this primary, but I don't want us to give up if he doesn't. The working class can't wait another four years for a candidate who has their interests in mind. Fight. Fight and win.
 

farmland

Member
Oct 30, 2017
350
I maintain that apart from the overt fascism, the difference between Trump and any other Liberal cantidate is just the speed at which things get will worse.
This is what all the centrists on Resetera don't seem to understand for some reason (probably because of class interests).

After Corbyn lost I've been feeling pretty depressed about the future of leftism in electoral politics (even with the caveat that Brexit meant he was fighting an uphill battle). It was that moment where I decided I wanted to be more involved in organizing, protesting, etc. than just casting my ballot and hoping for the best. I'll do what I can to get Bernie to win this primary, but I don't want us to give up if he doesn't. The working class can't wait another four years for a candidate who has their interests in mind. Fight. Fight and win.
I'm no statist so I don't spend my time worshipping polls and getting obsessed with the minutia of electoral politics, this is just a historical chance that must not be squandered. We all must remember that politics is something that happens between elections as well, to do otherwise it to surrender our own power and autonomy to the political class.
 

Mewshuji

Member
Nov 11, 2017
3,744
Sorry I haven't been posting here much, mostly been lurking.

... incidentally, can I have a discord invite? 👀
 

GiantBreadbug

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,645
I guess here is a good a place as any to post about Warren's spectacular fuckup re: putting up wanted posters of Sanders that say "$1500 for this Sexist Man's Head" because something in me just can't stop talking about it.

The idea that it should "just go away" is weirdly resonant with Warren allies. Or, not so weird when you consider the entire premise of her campaign is mixing Bernie's platform with water and asking everyone to pretend it's just as good. My Politically Genius Calculation has determined that I should, in fact, not allow this transparent ratfuck attempt to wade into the quiet of the stream, and should instead continue to point out the frenetic, hypocritical desperation on display from the Warren campaign loudly to do my part to crater her chances of even getting a single delegate in Iowa.

I will blow the smoke off my keyboard and take a good Poster's rest only when Warren drops out and Sanders wins the first three contests, placing into effect an irreversible landslide of momentum that ends on Super Tuesday when every other candidate is forced to wear a Bernie shirt and say their favorite thing about socialism in an official Sanders campaign ad

Does that mean we're seizing the means of emojis?
yes, and it also means that the Emoji Movie is required propaganda viewing
 
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Scottt

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,261
May I ask for some reading recommendation on the concept of technology in relation to socialism? Or, if you'd like, how do you conceive of technology?
 

Apharmd

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,773
I... don't understand what is moddable in that post? It's a left critique of the media and the reactions around the coverage/etc. of the Warren/Sanders friction this week. I don't see thebishop being dismissive of sexism, at all.

The poster says directly:

Virtually no Bernie Sanders supporter believes this. It's foundational to a leftist that women can and should be successful in politics. I have personally volunteered for 3 female candidates for political office.

When a quality, high-effort post, applauded by at least a dozen other posters, including a mod in a now-deleted post, results in a ban, that doesn't look like an improvement in moderation. And this kind of actioning, then immediately locking the thread to prevent criticism of it, has a chilling effect on leftists participating in OT topics. We aren't made to feel that there's fairness in moderation.
 
Oct 25, 2017
850
This is a very worrying turn of events :/

I want to believe that staff have our best interests at heart but this looks shady af right now.

This is what the 3rd, 4th, 5th? thread that has been closed and lefties quietly banned while certain members of the 'better things aren't possible' brigade get off with nothing.

Also how is that guy that called a member a facist only banned for 3 days? He tripled down on it.
 
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Seeya

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,728
I guess here is a good a place as any to post about Warren's spectacular fuckup re: putting up wanted posters of Sanders that say "$1500 for this Sexist Man's Head" because something in me just can't stop talking about it.

The idea that it should "just go away" is weirdly resonant with Warren allies. Or, not so weird when you consider the entire premise of her campaign is mixing Bernie's platform with water and asking everyone to pretend it's just as good. My Politically Genius Calculation has determined that I should, in fact, not allow this transparent ratfuck attempt to wade into the quiet of the stream, and should instead continue to point out the frenetic, hypocritical desperation on display from the Warren campaign loudly to do my part to crater her chances of even getting a single delegate in Iowa.

I will blow the smoke off my keyboard and take a good Poster's rest only when Warren drops out and Sanders wins the first three contests, placing into effect an irreversible landslide of momentum that ends on Super Tuesday when every other candidate is forced to wear a Bernie shirt and say their favorite thing about socialism in an official Sanders campaign ad



yes, and it also means that the Emoji Movie is required propaganda viewing
wait wait wait what? Figuratively speaking, or litterally?
 

KidAAlbum

Member
Nov 18, 2017
1,616
Jesus christ. Not surprised at all. There's a clear ideology divide allowing one way traffic to attack others. Everytime the usual pragmatic crowd get torn to shreds, the thread is closed, following a list of bans that they always magically evade. I'm not going to stop posting though. F that.