Socialism |OT| The Dawn of a Red Era

What tendency/ideology do you best align with?

  • Anarchism

    Votes: 59 14.4%
  • Marxism

    Votes: 32 7.8%
  • Marxism-Leninism

    Votes: 20 4.9%
  • Left Communism

    Votes: 8 2.0%
  • Democratic Socialism

    Votes: 156 38.1%
  • Social Democracy

    Votes: 105 25.7%
  • Other

    Votes: 29 7.1%

  • Total voters
    409

Shy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,537
Ok so why does there need to be a nefarious plot by the DNC in order for Bernie to lose here? Why are people afraid to say things like the voting public isnt that smart and votes against their interests?

Im not going to 100% doubt that there are some force or forces behind the scenes trying to influence things because i think it would be naive to think that there is never any fuckery in an election but my question is does there need to be?
I never said there was.

I don't know why you're asking me this in particular.
 

umop 3pisdn

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,639
I guess I'm just talking in general that some people might have this idea. Not really directing it at you. Just expanding on the subject.
As far as I see it, I have no reason to believe that political parties, the MSM, etc, aren't parasitic and oppressive cultural institutions imposed on common culture or humanity, and consequently for my own sanity I'm just going to stop investing them with my moral and political hopes, because by that light continuing to do so would be ridiculous.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,854
Ontario
i mean it's not a nefarious plot

it's the capitalist class and their political allies defending their intrests and a traumatized population not finding Bernie worth the risk

he can have come up short independent of the clear collusion to manufacture narratives against him
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,854
Ontario
It’s entirely possible there was some more nefarious stuff going on, but the consolidation of the Moderate/Center Left “lane” was predicted well in advance of ST. A lot of people laughed at the prospect of “Moderate Voltron” and criticized the punditry for their “Lanes” talk, but in the end it ended up being fairly accurate.

My position is that a lot of the issues Sanders is seeing in 2020 were there in 2016. The one takeaway that I am surprised by is just how much Democrats were willing to vote against Hillary Clinton and elevate Sanders. I figured Biden would do Hillary numbers once the field narrowed, but he’s actually doing better than she did—despite her having arguably more support from the establishment. I guess we were blinded by her clout within the party and history of service and really underestimated how flawed she really was—on top of downplaying some of her campaign decisions.

I’m just hear to discuss things in good faith, and try to understand positions I don’t necessarily agree with. I was a Bernie supporter in 2016, and I remember how excited I was when he was doing better than anyone expected, and how much it sucked when it became clear he wasn’t going to be the nominee. I really do relate to that frustration of feeling you are stuck choosing someone you don’t care for or someone who is the antithesis of your beliefs, it’s not fun and I wish we as a country could do better.
Hillary's favourability was historically bad for democrats and trump is the president it's really not surprising at all why biden is doing better


But like if you want to understand where we're coming from it's not just bernie good, establishment bad. Socialism is a worldview based on materialism and the suppporting concepts which separate it from liberal idealist politics.
We can't have a productive dialog if you don't engage with the framework that informs socialism/marxism/anarchism/communism.







more in reference to Kyra's question
 

thepotatoman

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,801
Denver
Ok so why does there need to be a nefarious plot by the DNC in order for Bernie to lose here? Why are people afraid to say things like the voting public isnt that smart and votes against their interests?

Im not going to 100% doubt that there are some force or forces behind the scenes trying to influence things because i think it would be naive to think that there is never any fuckery in an election but my question is does there need to be?
The whole point of socialism is to align people's class interests against the elites. The problem as a whole is that the elite have undo power that must be defeated by the numbers of the individually powerless. That's what Marxism is all about. It just doesn't make sense to use the goal as the cause.

I mean, bootlickers do exist, but as a whole Socialism is a pretty easy sell. The only thing that makes it difficult is entrenched power of all sorts. There's a long history of very brutal stomping out of any Socialists gaining steam that goes beyond the democratic party. That there was no violence against us this time makes the actions of this election actually kinda tame compared to what we usually face.
 
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Rupetta

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,208
Boston/Helsinki
So, my workplace was just ordered to work on distance indefinitely because of covid. I will start to re-reading Captial III and then move to Red Emma Speaks. My prophetic dream from a month back of Trump ordering the suspension of all elections indefinitely feels more close now than would want it :/
 

Massimoman64

Member
Dec 6, 2018
512
Sorry to bump the thread for this but could somebody send me whatever needs to be sent for me to have access to the Discord? I have never really used it before but this is a pretty comfy group for the most part so I thought I may as well check things out
 

Mist

Love & Respect
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
3,324
This is my frustration. These things are all great and part of any serious response to a pandemic. But we should have them all the time! Rather than waiting until the house is on fire.
The sickening thing is some companies have only offered PTO after public criticism. Can't even be humane during a pandemic.
 

Kilrogg

Resettlement Advisor
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,386
The sickening thing is some companies have only offered PTO after public criticism. Can't even be humane during a pandemic.
Friend of mine who works in the Netherlands just told me they're all expected to go to work even though many people cough, and that one of her colleagues, who has asthma, had to fight to be able to work remotely. Needless to say, my friend pretty much only needs a computer, an internet connection and a phone to do her work. There's no need for her, or most of her coworkers, to physically be there, unless you want to control them and/or your main worry is that they won't be *gasp* productive enough.

Fuck them all to hell. It's highly immoral. If you subscribe to the idea that there is such a thing as "treason to the country", then this is treasonous behavior. You do not jeopardize the safety and health of your employees, and of your fellow citizens, like that. Absolutely abhorrent.
 

Pekola

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,049
( •̀ω•́ ) 🖤
On tone and power imbalance:

Do you believe the term “Boomer Remover” is insensitive?

Do you believe older generations have placed systematic blockades for younger voters? If yes, what are some of them?

Do you believe systematically disadvantaged people should be able to express their frustration? What is the limit?
 

Mekanos

Member
Oct 17, 2018
17,734
On tone and power imbalance:

Do you believe the term “Boomer Remover” is insensitive?

Do you believe older generations have placed systematic blockades for younger voters? If yes, what are some of them?

Do you believe systematically disadvantaged people should be able to express their frustration? What is the limit?
My 63 year old dad laughed at "boomer remover" for what it's worth.
 

umop 3pisdn

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,639
Insensitive is kind of vague, I think jokes like that are definitionally ‘insensitive’ (by virtue of making light of something ostensibly serious) but that imo doesn’t entail that we should care or do what the boomers apparently want and preferentially reserve all of our care for their specific concerns to the exclusion of ours.

So idk technically or broadly insensitive but in context is ‘appropriately sensitive’ in that we’re not really given a reason to prioritize their concerns over ours or really anything against why this joke exists in the first place.
 
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Televator

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,320
Insensitive is kind of vague, I think jokes like that are definitionally ‘insensitive’ (by virtue of making light of something ostensibly serious) but that imo doesn’t entail that we should care or do what the boomers apparently want and preferentially reserve all of our care for their specific concerns to the exclusion of ours.

So idk technically or broadly insensitive but in context is ‘appropriately sensitive’ in that we’re not really given a reason to prioritize their concerns over ours or really anything against why this joke exists in the first place.
I agree with this. Being indefferential and vulgar can be understandable if not appropriate.
 
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Oheao

The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
9,094
London, Ontario, Canada
My work has been dead the past few days (I work at a thrift store) to the point that they've been sending us home early. I'm wondering how long it'll be like this, I guess the revenue must be enough to justify the costs of staying open and having labour or they would have shut it down, right?
 

Mekanos

Member
Oct 17, 2018
17,734
Quite astonishing how in a face of a global pandemic, people will still chide you for "not being productive" even in a self-quarantine.

Capitalism has absolutely fried people's brains where if you aren't actively trying to make Number Go Up something must be wrong.
 

saenima

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,883
Quite astonishing how in a face of a global pandemic, people will still chide you for "not being productive" even in a self-quarantine.

Capitalism has absolutely fried people's brains where if you aren't actively trying to make Number Go Up something must be wrong.
Must self improve for corporation benefit at all times. Tool must be better.
 

entremet

Member
Oct 26, 2017
17,179
Quite astonishing how in a face of a global pandemic, people will still chide you for "not being productive" even in a self-quarantine.

Capitalism has absolutely fried people's brains where if you aren't actively trying to make Number Go Up something must be wrong.
Where are you seeing this?
 

crepuscule

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,278
OP
OP
sphagnum

sphagnum

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,408
On tone and power imbalance:

Do you believe the term “Boomer Remover” is insensitive?

Do you believe older generations have placed systematic blockades for younger voters? If yes, what are some of them?

Do you believe systematically disadvantaged people should be able to express their frustration? What is the limit?
I don't care one iota about "respectability" or "civility" in politics, so it's all A-OK to me.
 

entremet

Member
Oct 26, 2017
17,179
Ah. That said, only one poster.
Ah. I see lol.
 

Doop

Avenger
Oct 28, 2017
196
just wanted to follow up on my post from a few days ago and say thank you to all the folks who said such nice things. i didn't expect such a huge outpouring of support in response to my post, it really meant a lot to me. i'm not gonna post on era anymore (for real this time i swear) because it's bad for my mental health, but thanks again, your words really helped me out. seeya folks and good luck, we'll win, no matter how long it takes <3.