• Welcome to ResetEra 2.0! Guests should now be able to save their dark or light theme preferences, found on the left sidebar.

Socialism |OT| The Dawn of a Red Era

Jan 2, 2018
229
0
I’m well aware, as a socialist in America everyone I see has made sure I don’t forget.

I was more commenting on the fact that capitalism threads have become a common occurrence on this site, with the degeneration of the discussion happening faster every new thread.
 
OP
OP
sphagnum
Oct 25, 2017
6,587
0
It's strange to me that DSA doesn't have any sort of official list of who is up for election tonight. Guess we'll have to dig around the internet.

Edit: I was wrong! I had seen this page last week but it still had the primary candidates listed, so I guess it took them a while to update it.

https://electoral.dsausa.org/our-endorsements/
 
Last edited:
OP
OP
sphagnum
Oct 25, 2017
6,587
0
Looks like that page was still missing some people. I've compiled what I think is a complete list of DSA candidates (not sure if anyone is missing but it's always possible) and their wins/losses for the night, at least up to this point:

CALIFORNIA
Jovanka Beckles - lost (State Assembly)
Tony Kelly - lost (SF Board of Supervisors)

COLORADO
Julie Gonzales - won (CO state senate)
Cliff Willmeng - lost (Boulder County Commissioner)

DC
Dan Orlaskey - won (Advisory Neighborhood Commission)
Matthew Sampson - won (Advisory Neighborhood Commission)
Beau Finley - won (Advisory Neighborhood Commission)
Ryan Linehan - won (Advisory Neighborhood Commission)
Emily Gasoi - won (Board of Education)

HAWAII
Amy Perruso - won (HI House of Representatives)

MAINE
Zak Ringelstein - lost (governor)
Jeremy Mele - lost (ME House of Representatives)
Mike Sylvester - won (ME House of Representatives)

MARYLAND
Gabriel Acevero - won (MD House of Delegates)
Vaughn Stewart - won (MD House of Delegates)
Marc Elrich - won (County Executive)

MICHIGAN
Rashida Tlaib - won (US House of Representatives)
Katie Scott - won (Board of Commissioners)

MINNESOTA
Kara Gloe - won (school board)

MONTANA
Amelia Marquez - lost (MT House of Representatives)
Jade Bahr - won (MT House of Representatives)

NEW JERSEY
Fatima Mughal - lost (write-in candidate for open school board seat)

NEW YORK
Julia Salazar - won (NY state senate)
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez - won (US House of Representatives)

PENNSYLVANIA
Summer Lee - won (PA House of Representatives)
Sara Innamorato - won (PA House of Representatives)
Kristin Seale - lost (PA House of Representatives)
Elizabeth Fiedler - won (PA House of Representatives)

RHODE ISLAND
Rachel Miller - won (city council)
Sam Bell - won (RI state senator)

TEXAS
Franklin Bynum - won (judge)
DaSean Jones - won (judge)
Danny Norris - won (Department of Education Trustee)
Julie Ann Nitsch - won (community college trustee)
 
Last edited:
Oct 25, 2017
3,176
0
So what are y'all's thoughts on this Trump tax-return-getting business? I'm finding it hard to care about, but am I missing something here that might benefit leftist movements? Or just Democratic party cheerleaders who want juicy gossip?
 

Shy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,769
0
So what are y'all's thoughts on this Trump tax-return-getting business? I'm finding it hard to care about, but am I missing something here that might benefit leftist movements? Or just Democratic party cheerleaders who want juicy gossip?
It's not going to change a damn thing. And he's still going to be re-elected.
 
Oct 28, 2017
5,135
0
So what are y'all's thoughts on this Trump tax-return-getting business? I'm finding it hard to care about, but am I missing something here that might benefit leftist movements? Or just Democratic party cheerleaders who want juicy gossip?
I think it's quite stupid. They're going to plaster it all over the media and basically just continue to be anti-Trump. What they should do is pass some progressive legislation even if they have no chance of passing anything and blasting the media with that. They need to talk about how they're going to change people's lives positively. Get people believing in that a better world is possible.

Every blue dog except Manchin got bumped and people are still trying to justify the racist rhetoric they used.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,415
0
Brooklyn, NY
Every blue dog except Manchin got bumped and people are still trying to justify the racist rhetoric they used.
Not a currently Dem-held seat, but Krysten Sinema is also probably going to lose in AZ, quite possibly by a smaller margin than what the Green Party candidate is getting.

I'm not inclined to defend either third-party voting or the shitty "you owe Dems your vote, shame on you purity testers" takes that will emerge from this, but it's at least undeniably funny from a karmic sense, given that she got her start in the early 2000s as a far left Green Party activist, only to sell out every one of her previously held convictions to become one of the most conservative Blue Dogs in Congress. One of the most craven, unprincipled career trajectories in recent Dem history.
 
Oct 28, 2017
5,135
0
Not a currently Dem-held seat, but Krysten Sinema is also probably going to lose in AZ, quite possibly by a smaller margin than what the Green Party candidate is getting.

I'm not inclined to defend either third-party voting or the shitty "you owe Dems your vote, shame on you purity testers" takes that will emerge from this, but it's at least undeniably funny from a karmic sense, given that she got her start in the early 2000s as a far left Green Party activist, only to sell out every one of her previously held convictions to become one of the most conservative Blue Dogs in Congress. One of the most craven, unprincipled career trajectories in recent Dem history.
As always, becoming Republican lite is a losing strategy
 
Oct 27, 2017
316
0
Boston/Helsinki
Looks like that page was still missing some people. I've compiled what I think is a complete list of DSA candidates (not sure if anyone is missing but it's always possible) and their wins/losses for the night, at least up to this point:

CALIFORNIA
Jovanka Beckles - losing with 8% in
Tony Kelly - lost (SF Board of Supervisors)

COLORADO
Cliff Willmeng - lost (Boulder County Commissioner)

DC
Dan Orlaskey - won (Advisory Neighborhood Commission)
Matthew Sampson - won (Advisory Neighborhood Commission)
Beau Finley - won (Advisory Neighborhood Commission)
Ryan Linehan - won (Advisory Neighborhood Commission)
Emily Gasoi - won (Board of Education)

HAWAII
Amy Perruso - won (HI House of Representatives)

MAINE
Zak Ringelstein - lost (governor)
Mike Sylvester - won (ME House of Representations)

MARYLAND
Gabriel Acevero - won (House of Delegates)
Vaughn Stewart - won (House of Delegates)
Marc Elrich - won (County Executive)

MICHIGAN
Rashida Tlaib - won (US House of Representatives)
Katie Scott - won (Board of Commissioners)

MINNESOTA
Kara Gloe - won (school board)

MONTANA
Amelia Marquez - losing w/ 50% in (Montana House)
Jade Bahr - winning with 50% in (Montana House)

NEW JERSEY
Fatima Mughal - lost (write-in candidate for open school board seat)

NEW YORK
Julia Salazar - won (NY state senate)
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez - won (US House of Representatives)

PENNSYLVANIA
Summer Lee - won (PA House of Representatives)
Sara Innamorato - won (PA House of Representatives)
Kristin Seale - lost (PA House of Representatives)
Elizabeth Fiedler - won (PA House of Representatives)

RHODE ISLAND
Rachel Miller - won (city council)
Sam Bell - won (RI state senator)

TEXAS
Franklin Bynum - won (judge)
DaSean Jones - won (judge)
Danny Norris - won (Department of Education Trustee)
you’re mixing national endorsements (which is the 19 you linked) with chapter endorsements. here is a somewhat updated list that makes this distinction clear: https://www.reddit.com/r/demsocialists/wiki/dsa_endorsed_candidates_2018_general but even this list is missing a bunch of chapter endorsements. Your list of chapter endorsed winners is with eye-test missing at least Julie Gonzales, Colorado state senate (won)...
 
Last edited:
OP
OP
sphagnum
Oct 25, 2017
6,587
0
you’re mixing national endorsements (which is the 19 you linked) with chapter endorsements. here is a somewhat updated list that makes this distinction clear: https://www.reddit.com/r/demsocialists/wiki/dsa_endorsed_candidates_2018_general but even this list is missing a bunch of chapter endorsements. Your list of chapter endorsed winners is with eye-test missing at least Julie Gonzales, Colorado state senate (won)...
Thanks, I knew there had to be more stuff out there. What a mess.
 
OP
OP
sphagnum
Oct 25, 2017
6,587
0
Pelosi is very effective at wrangling votes and was significantly more liberal than a bunch of the Dems during the Bush and Obama years when there were Blue Dogs all over the place. Why wouldn't liberals like her?
 
Last edited:
Oct 28, 2017
3,448
0
20
Canada
Man, it seems like the alt-right has taken over almost every gaming forum these days, to the point where I don't even know if a targeted effort to change that will work.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,176
0
Man, it seems like the alt-right has taken over almost every gaming forum these days, to the point where I don't even know if a targeted effort to change that will work.
It's not just gaming forums, sadly; it's the forum format in general. I post on forums for English-speaking expats in Taiwan, and even there discussions will devolve into right-wing masturbation sessions the moment someone suggests we don't support fascist principles. I think the internet's population of late 20s/early 30s men who prefer forum posting is just overrun with tech libertarian types, Sam Harris/Ben Shapiro types, and redpill types.
 
Oct 28, 2017
3,448
0
20
Canada
It's not just gaming forums, sadly; it's the forum format in general. I post on forums for English-speaking expats in Taiwan, and even there discussions will devolve into right-wing masturbation sessions the moment someone suggests we don't support fascist principles. I think the internet's population of late 20s/early 30s men who prefer forum posting is just overrun with tech libertarian types, Sam Harris/Ben Shapiro types, and redpill types.
Ah, I don't really frequent other forums so I wasn't sure myself. But yeah, I hope it's more that people who don't believe in those views are just leaving forums rather than it being them being converted.
 
OP
OP
sphagnum
Oct 25, 2017
6,587
0
One of the standard Marxist-Leninism criticisms of left-communism is its intractibility and refusal to be flexible in its definition of socialism, but if I understand it correctly, the leftcom position wouldn't be (as the author claims) "Just leave everyone suffering to cause accelerationism" but "Do what you gotta do but just don't claim it's socialism" correct?
 
Oct 29, 2017
3,207
0
"Leftism" and "Socialist Groups" often stand adjacent from the working class and the Socialist movement. It's not "leave everyone alone and don't do anything". It's that activism as a means to an end end isn't the catalyst of any Revolution. Any one of the many (many!) disparate Leftist groups with their own nuanced approach can claim to be the one true proletarian Party. The formal and declared "Party" is not the actual vanguard of the working class and any Party "platform" that exists in the face of the proletarian vanguard is an imposition, an obstacle in the way of the real Socialist Platform and the intransigence of the worker's movement.

The absence of the "Party Congress" or political voting rituals within the working class is not the absence of the worker's vanguard or the worker's Party.

We've discussed it on these forums before. All true social revolutions in all of history were through the class struggling for the aims of the class and did so without the formal parliamentary party social makeup that modern society uses to express its politics. This isn't to say that the formal Political Party's serve no over all function as Hegelian historical cycles identified and predict similar social currents. There was no official "Capitalist Party" that destroyed feudalism

The author illustrates the point themselves.

Never mind the fact that Marxism itself is neither fixed or unchanging, but malleable and constantly adapting to circumstance, their doctrinaire, single minded, and un-nuanced fundamentalism is unable to recognise the unavoidability of certain contradictions in revolutionary procedure, and denounces entire liberation struggles against systematic oppression for minor trespasses against dogma.
Revolutionary struggle (Marxism) is dynamic. Left Coms recognize social contradictions. What Left Coms do is specifically reject what this author accuses them of doing: adherence to doctrinaire orthodoxy. The Left Com position is that any official Party with its own theoretical contributions, salaried employees, political rituals, and power structures will, through Revolutionary struggle, impose the Party Platform as their political solution and can never build the Socialist Platform.

The dogmatism of the formal Party is incompatible with the socialist movement.

History is full of examples of the formal Communist/Socialist/Leftist Party in revolutionary situations coming into open conflict with the actual working class and its vanguard. The response is always to explain away the worker's opposition as rooted in kulak/sub kulak/new people thought and then liquidate them.


My personal position is "do whatever you want, just don't call it socialism" but that's part of a conversation different than this.
 
Nov 12, 2017
348
0
That seems like it would be in major opposition to any kind of intersectionality/integrating struggling demographics into the movement. Hell, fucking unions and other worker movements have also been incredibly racist while pursuing this insanely pure ideology, until they were forced otherwise by outside pressure
 
Oct 29, 2017
3,207
0
Oct 25, 2017
3,415
0
Brooklyn, NY
Not a currently Dem-held seat, but Krysten Sinema is also probably going to lose in AZ, quite possibly by a smaller margin than what the Green Party candidate is getting.

I'm not inclined to defend either third-party voting or the shitty "you owe Dems your vote, shame on you purity testers" takes that will emerge from this, but it's at least undeniably funny from a karmic sense, given that she got her start in the early 2000s as a far left Green Party activist, only to sell out every one of her previously held convictions to become one of the most conservative Blue Dogs in Congress. One of the most craven, unprincipled career trajectories in recent Dem history.

whoops she won after all lol
 
Jan 2, 2018
229
0
you know the democracy part is an important part of social democracy too
Historically social democracy isn’t very concerned with democracy at all.

And the track record of official CPs in the west, like PCE, CPUSA, PCF, CPI have all been some combination of Popular Front or just outright class collaborationism. Eurocommunism was a theoretical justification entering bourgeois governments and reformist practice.
 
Oct 29, 2017
3,207
0
Not even exclusive to Eurocommunism. Stalinism fully embraced entryism and political participation post WW2.

Trotskyism gave it a theoretical hand wave by defining Eastern Europe along the lines of Degenerated vs Deformed Worker's States.