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What tendency/ideology do you best align with?

  • Anarchism

    Votes: 125 12.0%
  • Marxism

    Votes: 86 8.2%
  • Marxism-Leninism

    Votes: 79 7.6%
  • Left Communism

    Votes: 19 1.8%
  • Democratic Socialism

    Votes: 423 40.6%
  • Social Democracy

    Votes: 238 22.8%
  • Other

    Votes: 73 7.0%

  • Total voters
    1,043
OP
OP
sphagnum

sphagnum

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
16,058
Surprise!

On Friday, The New York Times continued its long, predictable tradition of backing U.S. coups in Latin America by publishing an editorial praising Donald Trump's attempt to overthrow Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro. This will be the 10th such coup the paper has backed since the creation of the CIA over 70 years ago.

A survey of The New York Times archives shows the Times editorial board has supported 10 out of 12 American-backed coups in Latin America, with two editorials—those involving the 1983 Grenada invasion and the 2009 Honduras coup—ranging from ambiguous to reluctant opposition. The survey can be viewed here.

aj-infographic4rjyk.jpg


https://www.truthdig.com/articles/y...support-of-u-s-backed-coups-in-latin-america/
 

anthro

Member
Oct 28, 2017
420
I'm disappointed the Marx anime turned out to be CG because of my principled stance to never be reminded of 2016 Berserk again.
 

samoyed

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
15,191
I'm reminded of a quote about the nature of property and power and that even if power is decoupled from property for a time, power will seek to then acquire property and the two will be linked once more.

I'm pretty sure it's from one of the founders (who were intuitive enough to understand the relation of power and property but being property owners themselves elected to cement their power forever) but I can't find it because searching for such a thing just gives me a bunch of conservative bits about eminent domain and why it's bad and immoral.

Anyone know what I'm talking about?

EDIT: Just saw this execellent SMBC

1548856040-20190130.png
 
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SaveWeyard

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,540
I'm reminded of a quote about the nature of property and power and that even if power is decoupled from property for a time, power will seek to then acquire property and the two will be linked once more.

I'm pretty sure it's from one of the founders (who were intuitive enough to understand the relation of power and property but being property owners themselves elected to cement their power forever) but I can't find it because searching for such a thing just gives me a bunch of conservative bits about eminent domain and why it's bad and immoral.

Anyone know what I'm talking about?
Hmm, not ringing any bells. But if we're talking about property and power, we should keep in mind that one way to look at it is not decoupling one from the other, but eliminating property altogether so that no relationship can even exist. Power dynamics will still exist and violence will persist just not to the same extent, which I think is something that is commonly misunderstood about anarchism. The stated goal isn't to eliminate violence, but to eliminate the state's monopoly on violence. Simultaneously, getting rid of notions of property would reduce crime. Here's another passage from Berkman:
"But who will protect us against crime and criminals?" you demand.

Rather ask yourself whether government really protects us against them. Does not government itself create and uphold conditions which make for crime? Does not the invasion and violence upon which all governments rest cultivate the spirit of intolerance and persecution, of hatred and more violence? Does not crime increase with the growth of poverty and injustice fostered by government? Is not government itself the greatest injustice and crime?

Crime is the result of economic conditions, of social inequality, of wrongs and evils of which government and monopoly are the parents. Government and law can only punish the criminal. They neither cure nor prevent crime. The only real cure for crime is to abolish its causes, and this the government can never do because it is there to preserve those very causes. Crime can be eliminated only by doing away with the conditions that create it. Government cannot do it.

Anarchism means to do away with those conditions. Crimes resulting from government, from its oppression and injustice, from inequality and poverty, will disappear under Anarchy. These constitute by far the greatest percentage of crime.

Certain other crimes will persist for some time, such as those resulting from jealousy, passion, and from the spirit of coercion and violence which dominates the world to-day. But these, the offspring of authority and possession, will also gradually disappear under wholesome conditions with the passing away of the atmosphere that cultivated them.

Anarchy will therefore neither breed crime nor offer any soil for its thriving. Occasional anti-social acts will be looked upon as survivals of former diseased conditions and attitudes, and will be treated as an unhealthy state of mind rather than as crime.
 
OP
OP
sphagnum

sphagnum

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
16,058
I'd like to see that internal poll from Iowa showing that socialism had a higher level of favorability than capitalism.

(Although it obviously means social democracy to most people)
 

Old_King_Coal

Member
Nov 1, 2017
920
I'd like to see that internal poll from Iowa showing that socialism had a higher level of favorability than capitalism.

(Although it obviously means social democracy to most people)
Honestly just dispelling the taboo on the word itself is massive. Whenever I've talked to people at work about democratic ownership (without using any jargon), I've always gotten positive responses. People are receptive to socialism as an idea, they just need to have that propaganda over the word removed.
 

Deleted member 22490

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
9,237
Honestly just dispelling the taboo on the word itself is massive. Whenever I've talked to people at work about democratic ownership (without using any jargon), I've always gotten positive responses. People are receptive to socialism as an idea, they just need to have that propaganda over the word removed.
I talk about democratic ownership as well and people are very receptive to it. With the stigma stripped away from it, it's so much easier to talk about
 
Oct 27, 2017
961
Might have to cancel those plans boys, re claims of Corbyn's anti-semitism:



Saikat could've done 5 seconds of googling and learned that Shmuley is a right-wing grifter
 
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Oct 26, 2017
10,499
UK
Let's average it out and all agree that Corbyn is about 50% an anti-Semite

Sure, I was just about to edit my post to add how awful he's been at dealing with antisemitism in the party so 50% seems fair on that end. I'm just vexed by how little coverage the prime minister's racist windrush policy is getting right now and next to nobody in the UK gives a shit about it in comparison.
 
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Deleted member 13364

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,984
Sure, I was just about to edit my post to add how awful he's been at dealing with antisemitism in the party so 50% seems fair on that end. I also get vexed by how little coverage that the prime ministers racist policy is currently resulting in windrush and nobody in the UK gives a shit about it in comparison.

Also Tory MPs doing the "all black people look the same" bit.

 
Oct 26, 2017
10,499
UK
I don't want to get on a they do it too level because conservatives are obviously racist; the left should hold themselves to a much higher level in that regard. It's just frustrating to see racism is one party being placed as a bigger threat despite them not supporting racism in policy or holding any power when the other side constantly employs explicit racist policy that results in direct harm. Even on a antisemitic front I'd point to Tories support of Viktor Orban to be far more concerning than anything Labour's done, though that doesn't absolve Labour of ignoring a lot of the suggested actions from their last investigation into antisemitism or still keeping Peter Willsman around.
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,123
Brooklyn, NY
As a non-Zionist Jew with ample experience with the current political culture of American Zionism, I don't expect AOC to turn around and endorse BDS and a binational state overnight, but she needs to get better at recognizing bad-faith allegations of antisemitism for what they are if she has any intention of shifting the Overton window to the left on this issue (yes, Corbyn and Labour have problems, but I do not agree at all that he has anything against Jews personally). Her response was frankly skittish, weak, and frightened, and the specific actors she chose to amplify and legitimize (obviously Boteach, but also that PopChassid dude) have a history of outright apologia for Israel's human rights abuses.
 
Oct 26, 2017
10,499
UK
I'm ignorant on Venezuela but having seen the consensus on political OTs on Brazil, Palestine, or other political threads over the years which I'm much more informed on I thought it would be pointless to ask there, but is this video a decent take on the current situation there?



I'm totally unfamiliar with the channel, it just popped up in my recommendations so I've got no idea how trustworthy it is and some of the framing seems a little iffy.
 
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phonicjoy

Banned
Jun 19, 2018
4,305
I'm ignorant on Venezuela but having seen the consensus on political OTs on Brazil, Palestine, or other political threads over the years which I'm much more informed on I thought it would be pointless to ask there, but is this video a decent take on the current situation there?



I'm totally unfamiliar with the channel, it just popped up in my recommendations so I've got no idea how trustworthy it is and some of the framing seems a little iffy.


I've been skimming through the video and I don't think so.

Oil prices are one thing, but Maduro is a corrupt piece of shit. There was a guy on the old place who talked about the troubles getting basic foodstuffs for years. He was panicking to get out. Meanwhile, Maduro was enriching himself and his buddies.

Chavez was insane, but he at least made some progress on social programs.
 

samoyed

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
15,191
There was a guy on the old place who talked about the troubles getting basic foodstuffs for years.
Machado, it was Machado. He's still around. I don't know if he ever made it out but he seems to be in a stable situation.

Yeah no functioning country should have people who sound like Machado, his thread was something like "today it's my turn to line up for food and I might get shot for it".