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Socialism |OT| The Dawn of a Red Era

Oct 25, 2017
4,399
In the anime topic, made me rembember of this Miyzaki interview i have seen on internet
http://pages.citebite.com/n1r2l0s7w6abj


Question: After watching this movie, we awake to a socialistic justice, as if democratic socialism should now be reviewed.

Miyazaki: How can we go in peace without any dictators? The biggest bet of humankind to that question was socialism. It was grown in Europe during the 19th century and tested during the 20th century. As a result, it failed. We got to know there is no paradise on the earth.
I believe paradise only exists in the memories of our childhood. Because of that, many social movements that aim to make a paradise always end up failing. So we must accept that our world isn't a paradise. That is something which is too bitter for us though. That is why mankind created some ways to comfort themselves with several virtual ways.

Still, we necessarily need to acknowledge the reality that "There is no paradise on earth and around it". Around 1970, an Economics Minister of Sweden visited Japan and gave a speech. I watched it on TV and was much touched by it. He said, "There is no paradise on earth and around it. On the acknowledgment of that, we must think what nations can do and play a role." I was struck with his realism. Without realism, nations often make huge mistakes. Japanese stratocracy fell in a big mistake for a few decades because they lost realism.
At that time in the UK, WW2 ended and it was the beginning of the cold war. People had a fear for WW3 and nuclear bombs and also felt a crisis for the Soviet Union and communism. George Orwell noticed that and wrote Animal Farm and 1984. Halas and Batchelor must have had the same thoughts as Orwell. Halas was a Jew from Hungary. I guess he exiled himself from Hungary and went to the UK. During the war his homeland was occupied by the Nazis and after that by the Soviet Union. A totalitarian tyranny existed there and he surely felt such a reality in Animal Farm. Animal Farm had a nowadays theme for him. I think he wanted to depict the ugliness of dictatorship.
However, exploitation is not only found in communism, capitalism is a system just like that. I believe a company is common property of the people that work there. But that is a socialistic idea. Nowadays, American style capitalism has become mainstream. The stock holders have voices and change managers to get more profit in the current term. In addition to that, they downsize or restructure regular employees and enlarge temporary workers and part time workers. For them, temporary workers are just disposable. On the other hand, regular employees also are completely exhausted in hard work. Such a system is quite Animal Farm like.
Its scheme used to be common sense to the world. Now, everyone has forgotten about that. Everyone assumes he or she is in middle-class and blinded by the mechanism of exploitation. At a time, during the economic growth after the war, business managers also had to work hard. Because of its graduated taxation, the income gap In Japan was small. Before the bubble years, our society was like that and they didn’t feel the reality on exploitation. But all were crushed by the burst bubble. Lifelong employment and seniority system were thrown away. Efficiency pay and target settings were brought. In my opinion these efficiency pays will bring workers nervous diseases. It is obvious that talented people must do their best at work without thinking about its return. Don’t work for money. Actually, we need money though… anyway, we’ve thought that “Work is one’s partner for life”….
Europe got disenchanted in socialism during the Spanish Civil War in 1936. During that war, not only socialists but also anarchists, democrats and several movements gathered in the people front. In the war, they were betrayed by Soviet Union. It was a big experience for George Orwell and he wrote “Homage to Catalonia” as a betrayed revolution. As they got to know more about the reality of the Soviet Union, progressive young people broke down with socialism. After WW2, the communists in France and Italy looked for ways of democratic socialism. At last, Europeans reached to EU. It isn’t built by the socialists though, that is the only way to survive for Europeans.
Can we build democratic socialism? If it is possible, then I believe it can exist on the opposite side of globalism. In that sense I mean local production for local consumption. The wave of things like slow food or slow life comes more than once. That is kind of that. The desire of humans must be controlled. The idea that human desire can be grown infinitely must be changed at the moment when they get to know that the resources of the earth are finite.
My little wish is to wear domestically produced underwear. Maybe there are some if we pay enough. However, all underwear that can be purchased for reasonable price are all from China….

Question: There are some counterviews against the changing of the ending though. John Halas told that he wanted to give the audience hope for the future.

I agree. If they raise a revolution or a coup d'etat and exile the dictator and try to build an ideal world, then they soon will find a new dictator appearing in it. That is something history can easily show us. Despite of this, we should stand up again and again. I mean we have a right to revolt.To speak of my own private concern, during the 1960s I was very active in the labor union. I don’t intend to say our activity was good or wrong. However, it was better to do than to do nothing, knowing human often makes mistakes. Recently young people begin independent labor unions. Revolutions should be raised everywhere.

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It seems to me he used to be a socialist in his youth in the labour union, but it looks like he lost hope about it, he seems by the end of the first question to still have a favorable opinion and likes democratic socialism, but he's not sure its possible, i believe.

"I believe a company is common property of the people that work there. But that is a socialistic idea"
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,550
“Cowboy Bebop is neoliberal because it’s set in a world where capitalism exists”

Words are meaningless, baby
These people clearly never watch any of the shit they bitch about.

Tho an Op-Ed writer for Bloomberg writing about fucking anime has to be like, pretty far down on his list of "shit I thought I would end up getting to do if I sold my soul to corporate overlords"
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,900
These people clearly never watch any of the shit they bitch about.

Tho an Op-Ed writer for Bloomberg writing about fucking anime has to be like, pretty far down on his list of "shit I thought I would end up getting to do if I sold my soul to corporate overlords"
I also love the fact that so many alt-right dudes love cyberpunk, one of the most anti-capitalist genres in existence.
 
Oct 26, 2017
4,824
Isao Takahata (Grave of the Fireflies) met Hayao Miyazaki through Toei Animation's labor union and their work there:

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/culture/2015/09/12/films/isao-takahatas-stark-world-reality/

However it seems both set aside activism in pursuit of their craft. Their work seems strongly reflective of their politics (anti-war, pro-environmentalism). Takahata ironically had a reputation of being a slave-driver of a boss, though not in the capitalist sense.
Suzuki, Miyazaki, Takahata, and another animator that Suzuki refers to as “S-san” all attended [Kondō’s] cremation. S-san had worked with Takahata and Miyazaki since their time at Toei Animation. During the cremation, Suzuki says that S-san said aloud, “It was Paku-san [Takahata’s nickname] that killed Kon-chan, wasn’t it?” The air in the room froze until Takahata quietly nodded.

According to Suzuki, Miyazaki has claimed that he’s the only person to survive Takahata. The studio continued to lose potential artistic successors due to Takahata’s work expectations.

“You are overworked and exhausted. You have to prepare for yourself to break,” Suzuki said.
https://www.cartoonbrew.com/animato...takahata-destroyed-so-many-people-162906.html

From watching his films, Miyazaki strikes me as anti-greed rather than anti-capitalism per se. Lady Eboshi is an example a boss with her own personal non-conformist justice (women emancipation), and that her redemption comes from striking a harmony between her industry and nature rather than worker emancipation (who she has a synergistic relationship with).

Yubaba is a capitalist who literally robs people of their identity but her work with the river spirit shows an environmentally conscious side to her, and in the end Chihiro is liberated by resolving the conflict between her and Zeniba. Her parents' transformation into pigs is itself an allegory for gluttony.



The ensnaring role of money is a frequent theme in Spirited Away (her parents, No-face, Zeniba's stamp) but the resolution isn't destroying the system. Rather, it's finding sustainability within it.
 
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Nov 1, 2017
122
And given that it’s set in 1930s Italy, I wonder what the name ‘red pig’ could imply.

Also, in nausicaa the world is literally destroyed by runaway industrialism and the only way forward is shown to be in local, self-sustaining communities that look after nature in a society of free association.

I wonder how aware Miyazaki was of climate change when writing Nausicaa because it’s amazingly prescient for out current situation. He may have been coming from a more general environmentalism ofc.
 
Oct 26, 2017
4,824
I wonder how aware Miyazaki was of climate change when writing Nausicaa because it’s amazingly prescient for out current situation. He may have been coming from a more general environmentalism ofc.
I feel his environmentalism carries shades of general Japanese rural nostalgia/Shintoist-nature-worship rather than just "climate change". Americans also have our own version of this in our country-side culture/navel gazing (provincialism?).

There's a visible distaste for urban life in his works even as he works in Tokyo.
 
Nov 1, 2017
122
I feel his environmentalism carries shades of general Japanese rural nostalgia/Shintoist-nature-worship rather than just "climate change". Americans also have our own version of this in our country-side culture/navel gazing (provincialism?).

There's a visible distaste for urban life in his works even as he works in Tokyo.
Oh certainly. I was just pondering it because Nausicaa specifically involves an apocalypse scenario brought about by widespread pollution causing a massive change in the environment, and how it has ruined humanity but ultimately the planet will move on and heal without us. It’s weird similar to our reality in the details.

And yeah, lots of British fiction has a pro-environment, pro-countryside theming. Fun trivia, Tolkien was largely inspired by my home county of Shropshire for the shire, and Mordor is based on Birmingham (the British one).
 
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Oct 25, 2017
437
I wouldn't say there's much textual evidence of Eboshi being a "bad" boss at all, she's pretty much adored by everyone under her political jurisdiction. I also don't really think of her as a capitalist but a political leader. The tension is that the real liberation from industrialization comes at immense environmental degradation that in the long term is destructive to her community which is what the beauty of the film is.

I also wouldn't say Nausicaa is about industrialization because it feels like the text is pretty explicitly about nuclear weapons and war more than anything.
 
Nov 1, 2017
122
I wouldn't say there's much textual evidence of Eboshi being a "bad" boss at all, she's pretty much adored by everyone under her political jurisdiction. I also don't really think of her as a capitalist but a political leader. The tension is that the real liberation from industrialization comes at immense environmental degradation that in the long term is destructive to her community which is what the beauty of the film is.

I also wouldn't say Nausicaa is about industrialization because it feels like the text is pretty explicitly about nuclear weapons and war more than anything.
The great warriors definitely feel like an allegory for nuclear weapons, but I recall that the world went to shit before they were unleashed.

You’re right that it’s as much anti-war as anything else though.
 
Oct 26, 2017
4,824
I wouldn't say there's much textual evidence of Eboshi being a "bad" boss at all, she's pretty much adored by everyone under her political jurisdiction. I also don't really think of her as a capitalist but a political leader. The tension is that the real liberation from industrialization comes at immense environmental degradation that in the long term is destructive to her community which is what the beauty of the film is.
Yeah you're right I misremembered.

All bosses are bad.
 
as an actual member of NBK DSA, I really wish it had been about what they discussed in the meeting in the last couple paragraphs (which is what our actual meetings are like!) and not about media types at happy hours. fucking navel-gazing
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,550
as an actual member of NBK DSA, I really wish it had been about what they discussed in the meeting in the last couple paragraphs (which is what our actual meetings are like!) and not about media types at happy hours. fucking navel-gazing
Lol the media loves to jerk off over other media members who blather on about nothing and do nothing. It's how these social columnists stay in business. They could have at least profiled someone like Osita.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,399
The video on this thread is very interesting:
https://www.resetera.com/threads/rent-in-l-a-is-out-of-control-which-leads-to-homelessness.103488/

this made me remember the situation about this over here.
The candidate for presidency from the (one of) socialist party last year was a leader of the homeless movement, bolsonaro proposed to classify the workers homeless movement and the landless workers movement, as terrorist groups, for now nothing happened in this regard, but the natives will get fucked because now who regulates their land is the agribusiness now.

edit: oh yeah the land reform now is also controlled by the agribusiness
 
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Oct 26, 2017
4,824
I confused NYMag for The New Yorker and I was going to cancel The New Yorker over that article.

I mean The New Yorker is still filled with neolib yuppie shits, but I don't need to cancel them just yet.
 
OP
OP
sphagnum
Oct 25, 2017
8,122
My Chapo Trap House book just came in the mail today.

I'm excited to take some further baby steps into this whole Socialist philosophy stuff.
Don't take this the wrong way, but that's probably the babiest steps into socialist philosophy alright lol

Have you read anything else?
 
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Oct 28, 2017
2,076
Don't take this the wrong way, but that's probably the babiest steps into socialist philosophy alright lol

Have you read anything else?
No offense taken.

I enjoy the podcast quite a bit. In high school I was a Libertarian jerk-off. GAF/Era and Reddit have really opened my eyes to things over the years. This is the next step, and some very light reading for me.



Baby steps it is, lol.
 
Mar 4, 2018
900
I'm always going to recommend the works of Murray Bookchin and Abdullah Ocalan, but that's personal bias talking. I want more of a conversation on those ideas. Not STRICTLY socialism, but relevant to the current socialist scheme of things-- though maybe more for revolutionary rather than reformist schools of thought.
 
Aug 27, 2018
553
When the far right goes out of their way to characterize liberals in a cartoonish manner in order to slander their views, it is more often something I actually do want unironically as a socialist on some level, and something that liberals don't actually want.

Like expropriating housing, abolishing prisons, taking money from rich people, etc.