Socialism |OT| The Dawn of a Red Era

What tendency/ideology do you best align with?

  • Anarchism

    Votes: 37 17.4%
  • Marxism

    Votes: 18 8.5%
  • Marxism-Leninism

    Votes: 7 3.3%
  • Left Communism

    Votes: 7 3.3%
  • Democratic Socialism

    Votes: 80 37.6%
  • Social Democracy

    Votes: 52 24.4%
  • Other

    Votes: 12 5.6%

  • Total voters
    213

Eylos

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,993
this appeared in my youtube recommendations

nobody is cooler than the mustache guy

thx youtube
 

Eylos

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,993
Revelation 3:15-16
15 I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either one or the other! 16 So, because you are lukewarm—neither hot nor cold—I am about to spit you out of my mouth.

AMEM!
 

BuddyDharma

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,712
What publications do you guys read? I'd like to get a different perspective on current events, and you guys don't seem likely to recommend me stuff like apologia for oppressive autocrats or the ramblings of an aging discordian.
 
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Deffers

Member
Mar 4, 2018
1,971
Revelation 3:15-16
15 I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either one or the other! 16 So, because you are lukewarm—neither hot nor cold—I am about to spit you out of my mouth.

AMEM!
James 5:1-6
Now listen, you rich people, weep and wail because of the misery that is coming on you. Your wealth has rotted, and moths have eaten your clothes. Your gold and silver are corroded. Their corrosion will testify against you and eat your flesh like fire. You have hoarded wealth in the last days. Look! The wages you failed to pay the workers who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord Almighty. You have lived on earth in luxury and self-indulgence. You have fattened yourselves in the day of slaughter. You have condemned and murdered the innocent one, who was not opposing you.
People tend to forget Jesus was pretty socialist, and the early spread of Christianity can likely be attributed to its robust social safety net on top of its religious content. I tend to think of that as connected to keeping the faith.

It really is amazing and dismaying how much the marriage of religion to power across time have manage to obscure that.
 

Eylos

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,993
i suggest a new name for the thread
BIBLE |OT| PUKING IN CENTRISTS AND CONDENMING RICH PEOPLE!
 

Deffers

Member
Mar 4, 2018
1,971
What publications do you guys read? I'd like to get a different perspective on current events, and you guys don't seem likely to recommend me stuff like apologia for oppressive autocrats or the ramblings of an aging discordian.
If you're OK with not just strict socialism, Abdullah Ocalan's work on democratic confederalism and Murray Bookchin's work on libertarian municipalism are things I'm always gonna recommend.
 

BuddyDharma

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,712
Marx, Sartre, Zizek.
So much for current events. You don't seem to be the blog/Jacobin kinda guy, though, I can tell. :P I've been putting off Sartre for a while, now. I can dig him up out've my backlog. Zizek is a guy that's so well known I've always figured he was some kind of pop-philosopher until I noticed Capitalist Realism referenced him heavily.

Once when I was a kid I read a dumbed down, child's version of Arthurian legends. I wonder if I can find Das Kapital for a similar age range... 🤔

If you're OK with not just strict socialism, Abdullah Ocalan's work on democratic confederalism and Murray Bookchin's work on libertarian municipalism are things I'm always gonna recommend.
Yeah, I'm pretty much down for anything. Libertarian socialism, anarchism, municipalism, whatever. As long as it's not too difficult of a read; I'm trying to work my way up.
 

ImTheresaMay

Banned
Jan 15, 2018
523
I posted a thread about this a few days ago that didn't get too much attention, but it seems like another revolutionary socialist group in the US of the Trotskyist denomination has collapsed due to allegations of a rape cover up in the national committee a few years ago,

https://socialistworker.org/2019/03/15/letter-to-the-iso-membership

As this letter was being drafted, the SC (as well as several members of the National Committee (NC) and several socialist feminist allies) received a document from a former member (FM from here forward) on March 11, detailing the ways in which the 2013 SC had badly mishandled an allegation of rape in 2013. Moreover, the document explained that the respondent in the allegation had recently been elected to our SC at this year’s convention. FM was on the National Disciplinary Committee (NDC) that originally heard the case. FM’s account has been corroborated by other members of the NDC at that time who remain active members of the organization. We are grateful to FM for having taken the time to write this and reach out to us. FM also copied on the e-mail allies outside of the ISO whom we have worked in socialist-feminist and queer activism.
Unless you live around a major college campus, you probably haven't interacted with the ISO, but in places like Columbus, Ohio they're one of the largest socialist groups in the city next to the DSA.
 

Eylos

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,993
So much for current events. You don't seem to be the blog/Jacobin kinda guy, though, I can tell. :P I've been putting off Sartre for a while, now. I can dig him up out've my backlog. Zizek is a guy that's so well known I've always figured he was some kind of pop-philosopher until I noticed Capitalist Realism referenced him heavily.

Once when I was a kid I read a dumbed down, child's version of Arthurian legends. I wonder if I can find Das Kapital for a similar age range... 🤔


Yeah, I'm pretty much down for anything. Libertarian socialism, anarchism, municipalism, whatever. As long as it's not too difficult of a read; I'm trying to work my way up.
there's a full course on youtube of david harvey teaching the capital, but yeah its not an easy job

I posted a thread about this a few days ago that didn't get too much attention, but it seems like another revolutionary socialist group in the US of the Trotskyist denomination has collapsed due to allegations of a rape cover up in the national committee a few years ago,

https://socialistworker.org/2019/03/15/letter-to-the-iso-membership



Unless you live around a major college campus, you probably haven't interacted with the ISO, but in places like Columbus, Ohio they're one of the largest socialist groups in the city next to the DSA.
that sucks to hear, the group sucked though they deserved this collapse.
 

samoyed

Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,975
The only left blog I actually read is thenextrecession.com which is a Marxist economics blog. I enjoy economics a tad but it’s not for everyone. It doesn’t go deep into the ideology part of the movement but focuses on analyzing and critiquing capitalist economies and capitalist economic policy.
 

wonzo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,144
What publications do you guys read? I'd like to get a different perspective on current events, and you guys don't seem likely to recommend me stuff like apologia for oppressive autocrats or the ramblings of an aging discordian.
the local green left weekly + select financial times articles thru google cache
 

DrSlek

Member
Oct 29, 2017
4,467
I'm currently listening to Volume 1 of Capital on Audible. Damn, Karl sure loves to waffle on about linen coats....
 

Frozenprince

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,008
What publications do you guys read? I'd like to get a different perspective on current events, and you guys don't seem likely to recommend me stuff like apologia for oppressive autocrats or the ramblings of an aging discordian.
As a decent baseline I'd just suggest Current Affairs. There's really no leftist daily news websites which is probably a good thing.
 

House_Of_Lightning

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
5,048
Why is Sartre preferred over Camus? Or is it just personal?
I don't agree with Camus' solipsistic outlook. Sartre's "anguish of man" still applies to a modern day setting. Camus didn't believe in revolutionary violence, Sartre did, to the point where he may have influenced the likes of Pol Pot. Camus made the same mistake of assuming that things like the Gulags and Terror were Revolutionary violence when in they were instead Institutional. Sartre was the opposite.

That said, Camus' position on what constitutes absolute freedom is what I agree with.

But ultimately, as mentioned above, the ideas of Sartre apply heavily today, especially with the concept of crafting identity to give ourselves more significance and the concept of oppression.

Camus is too hot and monopolizes the ladies.
FWIW, Sartre was also apparently a god damn sex maniac.
 

samoyed

Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,975
I don't mind talking about Brexit. I'm an outsider but I've been following for a while now as best I can.
 

Eylos

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,993
I don't mind talking about Brexit. I'm an outsider but I've been following for a while now as best I can.
ok, so far from what i undestand
- May tried to vote her deal for the third time, then she got blocked to do vote.
- May tried to postpone and EU talked she needed a deal.
- Then something happened that pissed off people, i think May called the IG and corbyn to talk, and somehow people are more angry against him for quitting because of the IG.

So my questions:
what can be done since you can't vote a deal, will something be done to stop brexit, what are the options? Why people are angry to corbyn when the conservatives have the majority and controls the parliament its the usual corbyn hatters? i understand tha corbyn is pro brexit, but i remember to read that labour and himself would propose to vote for remain a week ago, what happened? What is the likely outcome of all this?
 

samoyed

Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,975
what can be done since you can't vote a deal, will something be done to stop brexit, what are the options?
Flaff about until no deal Brexit happens by default. They can always call the whole thing off (Revoking Article 50). They most likely won't because it's political suicide.
Why people are angry to corbyn when the conservatives have the majority and controls the parliament its the usual corbyn hatters?
Corbyn has been a long-time bogeyman of British politics. Tory hates him because he's a socialist. Blairites (the center-left branch of Labour) hates him because he's a socialist. Remain backers and non-Blairite Labour are mad at him because they feel he didn't push for Remain strong enough, that he should've been the one to fight for Remain. They looked to him for leadership on this and they feel he let them down (because Labour is about half Leavers I think?)
i understand tha corbyn is pro brexit
Corbyn is a "euroskeptic" because he sees the EU as a neoliberal institution and in a sense he's right, but his perspective on this is about 2 decades out of date. Right now he probably knows Brexit is a bad idea because it would be ruinous for Britons.
but i remember to read that labour and himself would propose to vote for remain a week ago, what happened?
I don't remember this but he's probably still working on it.

FT says they're still pushing for it though: https://www.ft.com/content/996085ee-49a3-11e9-bbc9-6917dce3dc62
Please use the sharing tools found via the share button at the top or side of articles. Copying articles to share with others is a breach of FT.com T&Cs and Copyright Policy. Email [email protected]com to buy additional rights. Subscribers may share up to 10 or 20 articles per month using the gift article service. More information can be found here.
https://www.ft.com/content/996085ee-49a3-11e9-bbc9-6917dce3dc62

Jeremy Corbyn is expected to throw his weight in the coming days behind a proposal to hold a referendum on the UK government’s Brexit deal. The Labour leader is backing an amendment by two of his party’s MPs that would put any deal to the public for a “confirmatory referendum” after it is approved by parliament. The move by Mr Corbyn, a Eurosceptic of long standing, is in large part an attempt to mollify his party’s mainly pro-EU members.
What is the likely outcome of all this?
I would only bet money on no-deal Brexit but I do have hope that it can be averted.

Article 50, total unconditional Brexit, triggers automatically on the 29th, so it's coming down to the wire, basically.
 
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Eylos

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,993
Flaff about until no deal Brexit happens by default. They can always call the whole thing off (Revoking Article 50). They most likely won't because it's political suicide.

Corbyn has been a long-time bogeyman of British politics. Tory hates him because he's a socialist. Blairites (the center-left branch of Labour) hates him because he's a socialist. Remain backers and non-Blairite Labour are made at him because they feel he didn't push for Remain strong enough, that he should've been the one to fight for Remain. They looked to him for leadership on this and they feel he let them down (because Labour is about half Leavers I think?)

Corbyn is a "euroskeptic" because he sees the EU as a neoliberal institution and in a sense he's right, but his perspective on this is about 2 decades out of date. Right now he probably knows Brexit is a bad idea because it would be ruinous for Britons.

I don't remember this but he's probably still working on it.

FT says they're still pushing for it though: https://www.ft.com/content/996085ee-49a3-11e9-bbc9-6917dce3dc62


I would only bet money on no-deal Brexit but I do have hope that it can be averted.

Article 50, total unconditional Brexit, triggers automatically on the 29th, so it's coming down to the wire, basically.
thx samoyed
 

Old_King_Coal

Member
Nov 1, 2017
323
It’s a total fucking shitshow is what it is. Somehow it’s managed to find the perfect combination of conflicting factors that there are a whole bunch of different factions who all separate and overlap in different ways juuuuust so that there is no one coalition that can form enough support to get something through parliament. So long as Brexit isn’t resolved, our political system is frozen in place, unable to get anything done. And this just around the corner from the next big recession.
 

samoyed

Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,975
The best part of that clip is when they bust out the manga adaptation of Capital because some youth are unfamiliar with the kanji used in the formal translation of Capital.

An honest reflection of the reality of modern teaching about Marx.
 

Eylos

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,993
It's weird until you realize Japan's Communist party is like, the 3rd largest in the world IIRC.

Shame the populace is so completely conditioned to being politically indifferent(thanks in large part to decades of influence from capital to keep labor in it's place) for it to ever take a major hold.
I remember reading an article about repression and persecution to communist by the japanese government and Yakuza, i will not be able to find those articles its been a long time.
 
OP
OP
sphagnum

sphagnum

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,011
When Turkish ground troops and jihadist mercenaries invaded the center of Afrin, Northern Syria, one year ago, the statue of the Kurdish blacksmith Kawa was among their first targets. The statue — the symbol of the Kurdish New Year, Newroz — was demonstratively shot at by the Turkish-backed jihadists and then demolished with bulldozers. According to a millennium-old legend, it was Kawa who led the resistance against King Dehak’s tyranny and freed the people from oppression. To proclaim his victory, he lit a fire on a mountain. For the Kurds lighting similar fires for Newroz today, colonialism is the modern version of Dehak’s rule, and the Kurdish resistance a continuation of the popular uprising the blacksmith led.

Last year, Newroz took place weeks into a foreign invasion, as the Turkish and jihadist occupiers of Afrin posed victoriously in front of the destroyed statue of Kawa. But this year, with the defeat of the last remnants of the so-called Islamic State, we can instead celebrate the success of the popular resistance in the region of Northern Syria commonly known as Rojava. As they light fires for Newroz 2019, at the end of almost five years of horror spread by jihadists and their sponsors, Kurds can applaud the women and men who put a stop to the darkness.
https://www.jacobinmag.com/2019/03/newroz-kurdish-new-year-turkey-syria

While they are still under occupation by Turkey, at least the Kurds can celebrate their victory over ISIS this year.
 

BuddyDharma

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,712
Once I get decent at Japanese I'd love to delve deeper into the old leftist and student movements of the 60's. Shit seemed crazy for the generation after the war.
 

Daria

Member
Oct 25, 2017
773
Twilight Zone

Old_King_Coal

Member
Nov 1, 2017
323
What are your thoughts on universal basic income?
Whilst I appreciate the sentiment behind it, I consider it an inadequate solution to the problem it is trying to solve. It is proposed as a situation where the economy is still privately owned but with high taxes to fund the ubi. This means that prices and investment and everything else will be still be determined by the capitalist sector. Prices will be set such that the ubi can provide only the most meagre survival. Workers will still be exploited. And the law of the rate of profit will still apply, so capitalism will still go through periods of slump, causing widespread unemployment and misery, with the ubi only preventing people from literally starving.

A preferred method for me is to take a significant section of the economy out of capitalist control to provide universal basic services free at the point of use. Housing, transportation, healthcare, food, energy (and other utilities), education, care, all free at the point of use.

This being only a measure until full socialism arrives ofc.
 
Dec 6, 2018
583
Whilst I appreciate the sentiment behind it, I consider it an inadequate solution to the problem it is trying to solve. It is proposed as a situation where the economy is still privately owned but with high taxes to fund the ubi. This means that prices and investment and everything else will be still be determined by the capitalist sector. Prices will be set such that the ubi can provide only the most meagre survival. Workers will still be exploited. And the law of the rate of profit will still apply, so capitalism will still go through periods of slump, causing widespread unemployment and misery, with the ubi only preventing people from literally starving.

A preferred method for me is to take a significant section of the economy out of capitalist control to provide universal basic services free at the point of use. Housing, transportation, healthcare, food, energy (and other utilities), education, care, all free at the point of use.

This being only a measure until full socialism arrives ofc.
This was almost what the military provided me when I was in.

All my basic needs were met (housing, food, dental, healthcare, education, guaranteed 30 days of vacation per year), and I just had to show up for work. On top of this was basic pay determined by time in rank.

But yeah, your idea would be ideal until full socialism like you stated.