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What tendency/ideology do you best align with?

  • Anarchism

    Votes: 125 12.0%
  • Marxism

    Votes: 86 8.2%
  • Marxism-Leninism

    Votes: 79 7.6%
  • Left Communism

    Votes: 19 1.8%
  • Democratic Socialism

    Votes: 423 40.6%
  • Social Democracy

    Votes: 238 22.8%
  • Other

    Votes: 73 7.0%

  • Total voters
    1,043

Vela

Alt Account
Banned
Apr 16, 2018
1,818
Saw this documentary today. A basic, but very decent understanding of today's threat of climate change, inter-imperialist conflict, capitalist crises, and rise of fascism. Recommended to share and spread to other people around you:



It mostly focuses on the US, Europe, and the UK, but it's a nice, brief introduction to imperialism in the 21st century. It asks a very timely question: socialism or extinction?
 

SegFault

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,939
The Discourse is so mentally exhausting. Both online (here and elsewhere) and in person.

Might be my mental health being the equivalent to a trashpanda floating around in moldy food but the ever present "Better things aren't possible" crowds have completely and utterly worn me down.

I applaud all who manage to do it while keeping cool.
 

Mezentine

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,973
The Discourse is so mentally exhausting. Both online (here and elsewhere) and in person.

Might be my mental health being the equivalent to a trashpanda floating around in moldy food but the ever present "Better things aren't possible" crowds have completely and utterly worn me down.

I applaud all who manage to do it while keeping cool.
They are very frustrating, but I imagine that they are in an extreme minority. Clearly, people want more and they want something different.
I'm not a "better things aren't possible person", at least I hope not, but I spend a lot of time being disheartened by how, er, unclear this actually is. What, admittedly minor, vectors to allow people to express their political discontent do reveal is a desire for something different, but one that's also worryingly vulnerable to right wing appeals, or at least not as poised to pounce on and support a leftward move as we want. There is tremendous inertia to progressive leftward change that isn't just coming from the ruling class. We are kind of fighting everyone
 

samoyed

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
15,191
Decorum is anti-organizational and is thus a tool of the enemy.

(How do you do fellow socialists)
 

Vela

Alt Account
Banned
Apr 16, 2018
1,818
What is the liberal answer to fascism exactly? How do liberals expect to fight fascists? So far it seems to emphasize the importance of being civil to each other and have cute debates.
 

Deleted member 22490

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
9,237
I'm not a "better things aren't possible person", at least I hope not, but I spend a lot of time being disheartened by how, er, unclear this actually is. What, admittedly minor, vectors to allow people to express their political discontent do reveal is a desire for something different, but one that's also worryingly vulnerable to right wing appeals, or at least not as poised to pounce on and support a leftward move as we want. There is tremendous inertia to progressive leftward change that isn't just coming from the ruling class. We are kind of fighting everyone
There's a lot of anxiety of various things and the right takes advantage of it but pointing to minorities and immigrants. I think it's best to offer a vision on specific things such as single payer and stronger unions. Our problem is that it's been difficult to get that message out.
 

Vela

Alt Account
Banned
Apr 16, 2018
1,818
There's a lot of anxiety of various things and the right takes advantage of it but pointing to minorities and immigrants. I think it's best to offer a vision on specific things such as single payer and stronger unions. Our problem is that it's been difficult to get that message out.

The problem is also

1) the liberals are blind to criticisms of capitalism and the state
2) money and power are consolidated around pro-capitalist and right-winged messages.

Rich people and ruling classes will easily give you money and platforms to spread pro-capitalist messages, while anything in line with leftist and socialist and communist perspectives are always excluded and defunded. It's basically Herman & Chomsky's Manufacturing Consent, ie the political economy of media.

So its simply not just about our messages but also how money and power are intertwined with what gets disseminated to the public. It also explains why so many liberals have lost their minds from reading New York Times and its ilk, because it brands itself as being progressive but is deeply reactionary, pro-capitalist, and imperialist.
 

Boddy

User Requested Ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,160
What is the liberal answer to fascism exactly? How do liberals expect to fight fascists? So far it seems to emphasize the importance of being civil to each other and have cute debates.
Most probably still believe that this could never happen in their country,because we know better now or something.
 

Vela

Alt Account
Banned
Apr 16, 2018
1,818
I mean historically there was that time they turned Germany and Japan into rubble

Uhm, it was communism that ended both the First World War and the Second World War.

Regarding Japan, there are debates about how that war was handled with dropping two nuclear bombs on its population.

Besides, these wars were inter-imperialist conflicts moreso than "liberalism vs fascism"
 

Bronx-Man

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
15,351
The Discourse is so mentally exhausting. Both online (here and elsewhere) and in person.

Might be my mental health being the equivalent to a trashpanda floating around in moldy food but the ever present "Better things aren't possible" crowds have completely and utterly worn me down.

I applaud all who manage to do it while keeping cool.
The past three years have destroyed my sanity, especially when trying to discuss my anxieties as a black man in America.
 
The Epic store threads and comments in general on the topic got me.

The dev worships is maddening, you are the consumer at least make the things in your favor.

And then the Bamco topic that they are not even reinvesting in their tournament and all the people going pls let me spend money to help those poor players you just need to make more money Bamco.


Just fight for your rights a little.
 

Bronx-Man

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
15,351
The Epic store threads and comments in general on the topic got me.

The dev worships is maddening, you are the consumer at least make the things in your favor.

And then the Bamco topic that they are not even reinvesting in their tournament and all the people going pls let me spend money to help those poor players you just need to make more money Bamco.


Just fight for your rights a little.
These are the same people that lost their shit years ago when modders had the audacity to ask to be compensated for their work.
 

Vela

Alt Account
Banned
Apr 16, 2018
1,818
The past three years have destroyed my sanity, especially when trying to discuss my anxieties as a black man in America.

FWIW I always find energy and support in groups and friends when I'm down and exhausted. It also helps a lot to just be among like-minded folks instead of constantly trying to assert your reality to others. This forum and elsewhere online are just hellholes and they should be approached as such.


Where's the lie?

These are the same people that lost their shit years ago when modders had the audacity to ask to be compensated for their work.

You mean the Valve/Bethesda mod thing? I think it wasn't as straight-forward as modders getting paid. To me, it was clearly an example of two multibillion companies dispossessing and exploiting the value that the labor of modders created. That was the problem with what was going on back then and we should not cheer such corporate exploitation of labor. If you have access to journals, check out this article that was published earlier this year: https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/1555412018756488
 

Boddy

User Requested Ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,160
The russian revolution didn't end WW1, in fact in made things a bit easier for the central powers (but obviously not enough).

WW2 is a bit more complicated then "russia did it" since the nazis got thier asses kicked from 3 sides at once.
It also wasn't truely over until japan surrendered.
 

Vela

Alt Account
Banned
Apr 16, 2018
1,818
The russian revolution didn't end WW1, in fact in made things a bit easier for the central powers (but obviously not enough).

WW2 is a bit more complicated then "russia did it" since the nazis got thier asses kicked from 3 sides at once.
It also wasn't truely over until japan surrendered.

Regarding WW1, I'm not just talking about the Russian revolution, but the workers revolting against the Kaiser in Germany.

On WW2, I certainly think that the vast majority of ass-kicking took place on the Eastern front and Germany was effectively defeated by the Soviet Union.

Anyway, we are getting off a tangent here. The original topic was about today's liberals fighting fascists and not what "liberals" (better word: capitalist imperial nations) did in WW2.
 

samoyed

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
15,191
I'm under the impression the invisible hand of the free marketplace of ideas will strike down the fascists.
 

Boddy

User Requested Ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,160
That's a stretch. At that point the germans already lost the Hindenburg Line and thier alliance dropped out of the war.
The revolt was actually caused my the german navy, which was sent on a last, completely pointless mission after sitting in the harbours since like 1915 (except for the submarines).

I'm under the impression the invisible hand of the free marketplace of ideas will strike down the fascists.
Don't worry, the police and/or miltary will stop them. You know, these organisations that are famous for how not fascists they are.
 

Xiaomi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,237
I'm not a "better things aren't possible person", at least I hope not, but I spend a lot of time being disheartened by how, er, unclear this actually is.

This is where I'm at unfortunately. It's not that it's impossible, it's just that even revolutionary change would take a long, long time at this point due to how big of a tangled mess things have become.

I've spent a lot of time thinking about this Zizek quote that I read a while ago:

We should dare to enact the impossible, we should rediscover how to, not imagine, but to enacting utopias. The point is not of planning utopias; the point is about practicing them. And I think this is not a question of "should we do it or should we persist in the existing order? It's a much more radical question, a matter of survival: the future will be utopian or there will be none.


He differentiates between the classical Utopia of imagining a world where everyone works together and there is no division, struggle, etc. and says "just do it." We're not going to be able to think our way out of the woods, we have to move ourselves, do things, and let history and analysis figure out if it was successful or not later.
 
OP
OP
sphagnum

sphagnum

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
16,058
"You, who shall emerge from the flood
In which we are sinking,
Think --
When you speak of our weaknesses,
Also of the dark time
That brought them forth.

For we went, changing our country more often than our shoes.
In the class war, despairing
When there was only injustice and no resistance.

For we knew only too well:
Even the hatred of squalor
Makes the brow grow stern.
Even anger against injustice
Makes the voice grow harsh. Alas, we
Who wished to lay the foundations of kindness
Could not ourselves be kind.

But you, when at last it comes to pass
That man can help his fellow man,
Do no judge us
Too harshly."
 

samoyed

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
15,191
so-beautiful.gif
 

Vela

Alt Account
Banned
Apr 16, 2018
1,818
Don't worry, the police and/or miltary will stop them. You know, these organisations that are famous for how not fascists they are.

lol when you speak of the devil


Hadn't even realized it happened but belated RIP to William Blum.

yeah, RIP to one of the greats. I can't imagine the horror to live through so much war and imperialism and have it continue unabatted until you lie in your deathbed. Really makes you feel hopeless.
 
OP
OP
sphagnum

sphagnum

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
16,058
I like how we've had multiple negative articles about Musk and liberals finally dislike him, but mostly because he's a jerk rather than because of business stuff.
 

Bronx-Man

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
15,351
Most of Era kept praising dude as Nerd Jesus that could do no wrong right up until he started tweeting like Trump.
 

GenTask

Member
Nov 15, 2017
2,665
William Blum took part in a panel in July regarding why the U.S. public is largely content with foreign policy:



The topics he goes over are exactly why it is difficult even to discuss what he is referring to even among 'fellow' leftists, such as in the PolitiEra, thread, or offline, without being argued or cussed at. "It's like talking to a stone wall."
 

Boddy

User Requested Ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,160
lol when you speak of the devil

And they think we are delusional.

Shit, I should probably post something productive.
Never sure what I should call myself, other than just socialist.
I think I'm leaning a bit towards anarchism, but I'm not sure I'm full on board with it.
 

House_Of_Lightning

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
5,048
Honestly I don't see any real reason for a GND to not be cooperative in nature. If it is a reform at the federal level there are certainly ways to ensure that the initiatives are built and owned at as local a level as possible.

It won't be. But oh well.
 
OP
OP
sphagnum

sphagnum

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
16,058
Ever since the global financial crisis of 2008–2009, the trajectory of the world economy has been hesitant, unstable and prone to many risks. Output recovery has been limited and fragile; and, more significantly, even in the more dynamic economies, it has not increased good-quality employment or reduced inequality and material insecurity. Global capitalism as an economic regime is increasingly unable to deliver on its own promise of continuous expansion within a largely stable society. Even so, discussions of the 'end' of capitalism still typically seem overstated and futile, not least because those hoping and mobilising for bringing in an alternative system are everywhere so scattered, weak and demoralised. In effect, capitalism remains the only game in town, which is why even in its current debilitated and even decrepit state, there are no rivals.

Indeed, it could be argued that the current difficulties of capitalism are not the result of any external threat or combined socio-political opposition to it, but because it has been too 'successful' for its own good, and so has to confront the contradictions generated by this 'success'. Contemporary globalised capitalism has managed to overrun and conquer its opponents or those that could restrain it (such as trade unions and other associations of workers that could reduce capital's bargaining power; democratic accountability working through regulatory structures that limit or constrain the activities and profits of capitalists and large corporations; expressions of collective concern voicing the requirements of the larger social good; and so on) to the point where it is now almost completely untrammelled. As a result, there are no checks and balances of the kind that in various periods in the past have generated both less economic volatility and more social stability within a broadly capitalist framework.

In purely economic terms, this 'success' of capitalism in vanquishing its opponents means less expansion of demand for products that the system must keep coming up with in terms of its own logic. It also means less ability to create new sources of demand, as financialisation and credit bubbles also appear to have run their course, despite almost endless injections of synthetic liquidity through very loose monetary policy. In ecological terms it means the accelerated exploitation and degradation of nature, to the point where it is not merely irresponsible with respect to the future but actively damaging material conditions in the present. In socio-political terms, it means more widespread despair, alienation and individualised responses that threaten the very basis of functioning societies. In an almost textbook extension of the biological argument of the prey–predator relationship, it could be argued that capitalism as a system is in the process of killing off all its prey, to the point that its own existence could be threatened, even if not in the form of an 'overthrow', but simply by losing steam altogether.

...

From a purely macroeconomic perspective, in the 2000s the economic expansion of some large economies' demand was sustained by a combination of financial liberalisation and loose monetary policy that enabled households and companies to consume and invest beyond their means through borrowing. This then enabled some developing countries (especially in Asia, but subsequently across all developing regions) to expand on the basis of increased demand for their exports from the core capitalist countries. Therefore, almost all developing countries adopted an export-led growth model, requiring the containment of wage costs and domestic consumption for the sake of international competitiveness and growing shares of world markets. In a spectacularly irrational twist, this was accompanied by the net transfer of financial resources from the South to the North (BIS 2008; 2010; UNCTAD 2010; 2014; 2016) as more and more countries sought to achieve current surpluses and all developing regions sent their net savings to advanced economies, most of all to the United States. This was famously described by the then head of the US Federal Reserve, Ben Bernanke, as a 'savings glut', especially in Asia, but it could more properly be categorised as an investment famine, since it was typically associated with falling investment rates in the capital-exporting developing countries. The current-account imbalances that were subsequently seen as one of the 'causes' of the global crisis were in fact utterly necessary for the prior much-celebrated boom, which could not have occurred in that form otherwise.

Other than the current-account imbalances, which have since reduced or changed form, none of these problematic features of global capitalism has been fundamentally altered in the post-crisis scenario. This makes any current or future expansion just as vulnerable as it was before the global crisis erupted. Further, there seems to be little likelihood of widespread and coordinated implementation of macroeconomic policies that would generate more demand. The incredibly loose monetary policies in the advanced economies operated to keep them afloat for a while, and contrary to standard monetarist predictions thus far they have not generated significant inflationary pressures. But they have not managed to kickstart real recovery either. In any case, it is clear that they have run their course and are in the process of being revised. However, the more deregulated financial structures and systems that enabled speculative bubbles to develop and persist still remain. Post-crisis attempts to bring in appropriate regulation were extremely limited and even these are now sought to be dismantled in the US as well as in the EU, while any form of labour protection has become even more difficult than before. Meanwhile, ideological opposition to expansionary fiscal policy remains strong across most governments, even as the continued lobbying power of large corporations and moneyed elites prevents any substantial cross-country effort at raising tax revenues by curbing tax evasion and avoidance strategies. The absence (and lack of immediate prospect) of coordinated fiscal expansion across major countries, even to the limited extent that occurred in 2009 just after the global financial crisis, suggests that it would be difficult if not impossible for individual countries to 'go it alone' and indulge in expansion without prompting capital flight. Along with these concerns, there is now a real possibility of the eruption of trade wars, reminiscent of the interwar period of the twentieth century.

Therefore, it is evident that we are in a period of global capitalist stagnation and instability. This is already reflected in lower aggregate growth rates, with the world economy growing at an estimated average of 3.3 per cent per annum since 2008, compared to 4.5 per cent in the period 2000 to 2007.1 GDP data are notoriously unreliable, as well as problematic, because they do not really capture crucial aspects of material life, but since capitalism is ultimately all about accumulation, aggregate income growth does provide some indication of capitalism's success in its own terms. This is obviously deficient at present.

http://www.socialisteconomist.com/2018/12/global-capitalism-today-unstable_14.html?m=1
 
OP
OP
sphagnum

sphagnum

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
16,058
Updated the banner but I don't think it works properly on desktop.

Too bad for you desktop users that I use mobile!