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Socialism |OT| The Dawn of a Red Era

What tendency/ideology do you best align with?

  • Anarchism

    Votes: 125 12.0%

  • Marxism

    Votes: 86 8.2%

  • Marxism-Leninism

    Votes: 79 7.6%

  • Left Communism

    Votes: 19 1.8%

  • Democratic Socialism

    Votes: 423 40.6%

  • Social Democracy

    Votes: 238 22.8%

  • Other

    Votes: 73 7.0%
  • Total voters
    1,043
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Old_King_Coal

Old_King_Coal

Member
Nov 1, 2017
920
A far more common sentiment I see amongst the people I know at work and such is 'yeah it sucks but that's life, what can we do about it'. People seem to have the attitude of Estragon in waiting for godot, 'nothing to be done'.

No idea how my anecdote lines up with others experience.
 
House_Of_Lightning

House_Of_Lightning

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
5,048
Old_King_Coal said:
A far more common sentiment I see amongst the people I know at work and such is 'yeah it sucks but that's life, what can we do about it'. People seem to have the attitude of Estragon in waiting for godot, 'nothing to be done'.

No idea how my anecdote lines up with others experience.
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Goes back to last page's discussion about making a choice when there's an actual choice to make.
 
samoyed

samoyed

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
15,191
House_Of_Lightning said:
Is "pride" something only seen in protestant neo-liberals?
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Nah, I mean this specific form of it where you lay down and roll over for your corporate masters because they're rich which means they deserve being rich. Many cultures have a form of self-defeatist pride but I'm pretty sure the American one can be traced to its protestant roots. As a comparative example, the Chinese type of "keep your head down and focus on yourself/your family, respect authority" is rooted in Confucian traditions.
Eylos said:
he's referring to weber
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Who is weber?
 
Bonen no Max'd

Bonen no Max'd

Member
Oct 25, 2017
523
I haven't actually read the protestant work ethic and the spirit of capitalism yet (though I want to) but I don't think it's really accurate at all to associate protestantism with neoliberalism. i guess in the sense that neoliberalism aims to tear down the corporatist economic structures developed mid century you can kind of make that argument insofar a lot of those corporatist models come from catholicism but that's a really big stretch. hayek was a (non practicing) catholic!

now that the semester is over i should actually take the time to read weber though lol
 
samoyed

samoyed

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
15,191
I didn't mean to imply that neoliberalism was born out of protestantism. Just that it is an attitude many people have. If you skimmed the latest CEO you'd see yet another example of the obsequious defense of CEO compensation by people as far from that class as earth is from heaven.

https://www.resetera.com/threads/ci...started-in-1983-at-17-000-salary-cnbc.114985/

Put it another way, the "temporarily embarrassed billionaire" mindset seems to have its roots in Protestantism and is also now mixed with Reagan-era neoliberalism in the culture of may Americans, especially ones that are low on the socio-economic ladder.

I'm always very curious about, and looking for ways to explain, why people think the way they do because I feel like if I understood what made them the way they are I can figure out how they can be changed. In that sense my outlook is naturally sociological.
 
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Xiaomi

Xiaomi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,237
I don't know how close Weber was to the mark with his critiques of Calvinism, but I can agree that white protestant churches in the US have happily adopted Reaganite attitudes. But that's probably because some of their leaders are still salty about LBJ and the Civil Rights Act of 1964, and all the others kind of resent Marx for his comments about religion.
 
anthro

anthro

Member
Oct 28, 2017
420
220px-Karl_Marx_001.jpg

It is poverty Santa's birthday today. Say something nice to him or he will write a 50 page polemic about you.
 

Deleted member 721

User-requested account closure
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Oct 25, 2017
10,416
Mr.Mike said:
Was Marx a failson?
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"(Internet slang, derogatory) An incompetent, unsuccessful middle-class or upper-class man who is protected from economic duress by his family's wealth or influence. quotations ▼"
i didnt knew that slang, but no, he and his family suffered a lot due to economical duress, and political persecution, jenny family was wealth and helped them, but this stopped after her father died, he was a good journalist he did what a good journalist should do, do the hard questions and defend the people, but the government doesnt like that. In london engels helped a lot, and some other communists, they knew that marx research was important, and they basicaly backed his research that created one of the most sucesful books in history.
Certainly marx was not sucessful economicaly but his work is beyond question sucessful.

There's a lot of hate to marx and a bunch of libertarians try to defamate him as a lazy bum.
 
samoyed

samoyed

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
15,191
I think he was probably pretty dependent on Engels who's kind of bourgeoisie.

But that's really andyetyouliveinsociety.jpg
 
samoyed

samoyed

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
15,191
"Hit that like and subscribe button for more videos about communism, you can also kick me a dollar on Ko-Fi, link in the description below"
 
Mekanos

Mekanos

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 17, 2018
44,088
Good to see a thread about the collapse of the planet's environment devolve into eugenics talk about how Thanos is right.

The myth that overpopulation is the biggest cause of our economic and ecological woes is the greatest weapon to destabilize the working class and make them fight amongst themselves.
 
OP
OP
sphagnum

sphagnum

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
16,058


People should just ambush Bernie at his rallies with socialist and communist historical figures on their shirts and gauge his reaction to each one.
 

Deleted member 19066

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,826
Mekanos said:
Good to see a thread about the collapse of the planet's environment devolve into eugenics talk about how Thanos is right.

The myth that overpopulation is the biggest cause of our economic and ecological woes is the greatest weapon to destabilize the working class and make them fight amongst themselves.
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It's absurd. We can feed everyone, easily. It's not a question of production, but distribution. Even with a looming climate crisis, we are capable of adapting. If we will adapt is a whole other question. :/

Plus, is calling it a "collapse" overstated? Things are gonna get shittier, for sure. Underdeveloped nations may collapse for sure without adequate aid. But for the privileged, like the first world doom-and-gloomers, it seems like a bunch of histrionics, to me. We're not gonna get the worst of it.
 
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samoyed

samoyed

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
15,191
Liberals would rather institute a One-child policy than disrupt market capitalism or the comfort of their daily lives.
 
OP
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sphagnum

sphagnum

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
16,058
West Long Branch, NJ – Most Americans say socialism is not compatible with American values, but only 4-in-10 hold a decidedly negative opinion of it. The latest Monmouth University Poll also finds that less than half the country has a clearly positive opinion of capitalism. Republicans have stronger, largely negative, views of socialism. Democrats tend to be more neutral; at the same time they give overwhelming support to universal health care – a policy which both supporters and detractors have painted as a socialist policy.

A majority of Americans (57%) say that socialism is not compatible with American values. Just 29% say it is compatible. About 4-in-10 (42%) have a negative opinion of socialism in general, with another 45% having a neutral opinion and just 10% holding a positive view of socialism. Public opinion about capitalism – while largely positive – is not overwhelmingly favorable, however. Nearly 4-in-10 Americans (39%) have a positive opinion of capitalism in general and a similar 40% have a neutral opinion. Another 17% hold a negative view of capitalism.
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https://www.monmouth.edu/polling-institute/reports/MonmouthPoll_US_050619/

10% positive and 45% neutral, especially with the Boomers slowly dying off, is a lot of room to grow.
 
samoyed

samoyed

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
15,191
Socialism was the friends we made along the way. The 1949 answer was probably understandable in light of the Soviet Union.
 
House_Of_Lightning

House_Of_Lightning

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
5,048
https://nypost.com/2019/05/07/ocasi...ith-a-garbage-disposal/?utm_source=reddit.com

Christ. Could she be any less fucking embarrassing?

The "Green New Deal"-touting Bronx Democrat wondered whether the device was "environmentally sound."

"This DC apartment is bougie and has things I've never seen before…," Ocasio-Cortez captioned the video, later noting: "Is this what social mobility is? Using kitchen appliances you never saw growing up?"
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I grew up in a single wide during the Reagan years that had a disposal on it. Didn't know I was rich.

Anyway, they were illegal in NY because NY didn't want to update their plumbing infrastructure.
 
House_Of_Lightning

House_Of_Lightning

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
5,048
Not having it isn't really an issue, man of my apartments didn't have them. It's thinking that having one is an indicator of social mobility that is dumb.

"You're not poor if you have a refrigerator".
 
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ItRhymesWithDoom

ItRhymesWithDoom

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,722
House_Of_Lightning said:
https://nypost.com/2019/05/07/ocasi...ith-a-garbage-disposal/?utm_source=reddit.com

Christ. Could she be any less fucking embarrassing?



I grew up in a single wide during the Reagan years that had a disposal on it. Didn't know I was rich.

Anyway, they were illegal in NY because NY didn't want to update their plumbing infrastructure.
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drive-by post, but:

Maybe you want to update your expectations here: Nobody outside of the USA has any idea what a garbage disposal is.

It's a pretty straight-forward safety risk, so basically no government would license that shit, ever.


I only learned they were a thing from horror movies and shows, which shows exactly why those things should not be a thing at all. Also, it actively avoids recycling, which is a weird thing to have a boner for as a bleeding heart socialist.

So her remark here is kind of correct in terms of this thread's topic. Also, there a truckloads of random kitchen appliances that make no sense and no poor person would ever own. A smoothy maker, a bread maker, a cocktail maker, etc... they are useless trash for rich people.

Seriously, even a coffee machine isn't a required instrument, nor is a blender. It's convenient, sure, but that's the thing about socialism: convenient it is not.
Not sure what you think socialism is, if you bring that up in here of all places.
 
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