Prior to DHS they were in DoJ. Which is filled with lawyers. Better oversight.
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Some Democrats with eye on 2020: ‘Abolish ICE’
- Thread starter Deleted member 3812
- Start date
Living in scandinavia, our right is probably left of yours, disregarding extreme populist parties. Your far left isn't as extreme as you seem to think. It would be fine to let the window slide pretty far left for you guys. Honestly, that's what you should hope for, considering what you've become in the past two years or so.
People calling for ICE to be abolished aren't saying there should be no immigration enforcement whatsoever. But the established precedents for behavior are so ugly that it's better to rebuild a system that spends more time actually dealing with immigrants who commit felonies instead of patrolling in search of random innocents to fuck over.
But abolishing a group that primarily engages in dangerous and abusive behavior is in no way an extremist idea, so what does your concern have to do with what's being discussed?
Bro you started this by freaking out because someone wanted a Bernie Centre window.... A Bernie Centre Window does not mean extreme left takeover of the United States brah.
Did you think we had open boarders before 2003?
ICE is straight garbage top to bottom and a waste of money that makes stuff like targeting human traffickers HARDER while perpetrating violence on innocent people.
Lmao
There is no left in the US. Bernie Sanders is not left. In Europe he would just be another center right dude.
That's what abolishing ICE is
Do people seriously not realize that ICE hasn't even existed for 15 years yet?
The general public doesn't care or pay attention to when government agencies are created or started or merged
To normal people "abolish" means get rid of, and there's no follow up to the message typically so people and republicans insert the idea that those asking for it want nothing to replace it.
I'll bet most people don't even know DHS is a new department either. These are the same people that think Obamacare and the ACA are different things
No they don't. And this will be perfect ad material for republicans.
I was replying to someones comment? fyi I am for abolishing ICE.
Honestly no, probably not. Most people don't keep track of every department of the federal government and when it was created.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
They say anything of substance that I missed? It's not like he made a detailed or nuanced post and I ignored all of his points. It was a quick hot take that sounds like the same old fear mongering of left wing politics that I've heard thousands of times from "centrists".
Feel free to engage with it and do better.
They probably should look into it before they defend it from those who want it gone.
I'm Canadian and I knew it.
Yup.
The messaging is a big off though.
Abolishing ICE sounds similar to open borders. They (Trump and Republicans) will run with that narrative.
ICE is a constitutionally superseding police force with unchecked power and a ballooning budget. It needs to go. Two thirds of all Americans live in the BS 100-Mile Border Zone, placing far too many non-white Americans at risk. If Bernie Sanders can't articulate a position against ICE he's going to quickly be left behind.
I don't know how this is going to come across. ICE is terrible, but it's too easy to make this sound like open borders/let everyone in/not even deporting the violent criminals.
Abolish ICE... and then what? It needs to be a single, simple, tweetable sentence.
Abolish ICE... and then what? It needs to be a single, simple, tweetable sentence.
I will happily vote Bernie again (I worked insanely hard on his first presidential campaign), but he REALLY needs to call for the destruction of ICE.
"Replace ICE" or "Reform ICE" is far less Republican misinformation friendly
This is true. Though I did have a center left friend react to it by saying "the left is going too far, I can't get on board - ICE just needs to be changed." So it could have a negative impact along that dimension too.
Considering the steady rise of far-right populist movements all over Europe I don't think they have any rights to cast stones at the US. IIRC Poland recently had a 50,000 man strong Nazi rally in their capital. Meanwhile the largest Nazi rally in the US was 500 at Charlottesville and since then they've been unable to break 50.
They'll run with it anyway. This is not a group of people who play fair. They are already saying Democrats are running on open borders.
This is why you don't be "civil."
This is why you don't try to "meet in the middle."
This is why you don't just hop on board with the lame-ass Democratic leadership.
This is why you push.
This is why you fight.
People are getting the message and it's working.
Keep going.
This is why you don't try to "meet in the middle."
This is why you don't just hop on board with the lame-ass Democratic leadership.
This is why you push.
This is why you fight.
People are getting the message and it's working.
Keep going.
*Jumps into thread with optimism
"FUCK BERNIE SANDERS!!" and other gibberish
Y'all make me laugh lol
That said- I agree that Bernie should come out hard against it. But let's not pretend he's for all the horrible shit it represents. It's tasteless. (How many deportations were there under Obama? ::thinking emoji::)
I say abolish the shit out of it, honestly. Replace it with something where human dignity is at the forefront. But obviously deportations don't have to stop. Not really for open borders. But the moment you don't treat every single human being approaching the border as just that- a human being, you forfeit any high ground you think you have.
"FUCK BERNIE SANDERS!!" and other gibberish
Y'all make me laugh lol
That said- I agree that Bernie should come out hard against it. But let's not pretend he's for all the horrible shit it represents. It's tasteless. (How many deportations were there under Obama? ::thinking emoji::)
I say abolish the shit out of it, honestly. Replace it with something where human dignity is at the forefront. But obviously deportations don't have to stop. Not really for open borders. But the moment you don't treat every single human being approaching the border as just that- a human being, you forfeit any high ground you think you have.
No it doesn't. It doesn't sound like open boarders at all... and Trumpians run with cheese pizza, grey poupon and a tan suit... Pardon if maybe it's time not to care what the GOP will run with
And yet that has nothing to do with what i said. Yes it's unfortunate and worrying that it's happening but not even close to the same level or context. The US has never had a viable left wing since before i was born, if ever.
Yes, but "abolish ice" is how I'm seeing it being reported.
FDR/LBJ were rather left-wing economically.
Yeah cause the media is complicit in having to make anything to the left of the current status quo sound very scary.
It is disappointing. Honestly none of the 2020 candidates have me very pumped, but none of them seem that awful either (other than Booker).
I think we really just need a brand new generation of Dems who haven't had to go through the 90s DLC gatekeepers to get elected. The party is still stuck in an 80s/90s way of thinking and that political brand for the party is toxic as fuck now.
The old guard can shift their stances away from that and it's better than nothing, but we really need fresh new faces from millennials/gen X, and a lot of them. Ocasio-Cortez is like the ideal of where I want the party to move.
Apologies. I tried tracing it back to the original point, but it seems it was even further back than I realized.
But honestly, I think the implication that Bernie isn't essentially fairly centrist is a little silly too. He's only far left on precisely one issue, and even then he's not all that far in terms of functional policy so much as lip service.
Dems are not going to win if they're relying only on their base.
They need Independents.
Everyone who wants to abolish it has said so in order to reform the system with something new that works.
The slogan is literally abolish ice, that's not the media doing anything.
They need to energize their base to actually come out and vote with bold plans rather than relying on wishy washy independents. And again, Republicans are going to say Democrats are for open borders no matter what they do.
I apologize for calling you out. I get annoyed by #BOTHSIDESSS because it gets thrown out too many times when someone just dares to mention that the left-wing also has stupid / dangerous people. Saying that the extreme/far left is also bad in some ways isn't the same as saying "the entire right and left wing are identical and equally bad, here I sit above it all." Kneejerk #BOTHSIDES responses don't engender good faith discussion here on ERA.
Anyhow, I apologize for being antagonistic.
You're completely right, they should. Unfortunately we prioritize talking heads and hot takes in the US these days.
There's actually very little that suggests this. A push towards more progressive ideas like abolishing ICE, impeachment, universal healthcare, etc, is the reason Dems are doing so well right now in polling and in special elections. We tried being "moderate" with HRC and we ended up with "both sides".